Arsenal 0-1 West Ham Match Reaction

[Niall_Quinn]

Nobody needs to be able to trap a long ball, they just need to be able to run and time that run. Besides, Nwaneri is superb at trapping the ball, as we saw last night. Any of them can play a long ball, except Raya who seems to be particularly poor with distribution beyond 2 yards. Nobody is saying keep hoofing for the whole 90. But FFS, just mix it up a bit. Take the painful predictability out of our play. That moment last night when the wide man (was it Trossard?) got the ball on the left and the overlap was an underlap - ridiculous, absurd, frustrating, boring, tragic, should be illegal. It's sad to see Nwaneri already learning to play with his back to goal. Horrible. At one point last night I noticed every player beyond the carrier at the halfway line had his back to goal. It's like they are allergic to pressurising the opposition defence, like they are our mates and we're patiently waiting for them to get their shit together before we launch a vulgar and unprovoked attack against them. Surprised we don't issue a written apology when we get the ball in their box.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Nobody needs to be able to trap a long ball, they just need to be able to run and time that run. Besides, Nwaneri is superb at trapping the ball, as we saw last night. Any of them can play a long ball, except Raya who seems to be particularly poor with distribution beyond 2 yards. Nobody is saying keep hoofing for the whole 90. But FFS, just mix it up a bit. Take the painful predictability out of our play. That moment last night when the wide man (was it Trossard?) got the ball on the left and the overlap was an underlap - ridiculous, absurd, frustrating, boring, tragic, should be illegal. It's sad to see Nwaneri already learning to play with his back to goal. Horrible. At one point last night I noticed every player beyond the carrier at the halfway line had his back to goal. It's like they are allergic to pressurising the opposition defence, like they are our mates and we're patiently waiting for them to get their shit together before we launch a vulgar and unprovoked attack against them. Surprised we don't issue a written apology when we get the ball in their box.

Of course you need to be able to trap a ball that’s been launched at you from half way up the pitch, are you expecting it will just land neatly at your feet without having to cushion it with your head or chest or bring it under control with either feet.


You also need to have a degree of physical strength to hold off the opposition players who get paid to make sure you don’t receive that pass unimpeded.

Honestly it defies fucking logic the way some people speak on here. You act as if turning base metal into gold was a scientific breakthrough rather than a magical fantasy

[Niall_Quinn]

Of course you need to be able to trap a ball that’s been launched at you from half way up the pitch, are you expecting it will just land neatly at your feet without having to cushion it with your head or chest or bring it under control with either feet.


You also need to have a degree of physical strength to hold off the opposition players who get paid to make sure you don’t receive that pass unimpeded.

Honestly it defies fucking logic the way some people speak on here. You act as if turning base metal into gold was a scientific breakthrough rather than a magical fantasy

No, I'm expecting the ball to go into the space in front of the player already running towards - wait for it - the OPPOSITION goal. Trapping it to feet is precisely what we don't need more of.

You believe you are some sort of expert that has a deep understanding of the game. But I've watched the game over decades and know the difference between football and Pepball. All the stuff you go on about is the product of Pep's tragic influence on the game. Trap the long ball? Who ever heard the like of it? Get the fucking ball into space an chase it, outpace the defender, beat you man. THAT'S real football, not the shit we see today. If Giggs could do it against people kicking the shit out of him, if Henry could do it, if some of the Brentford and Bournemouth wide men can do it, why are our lot fucking around with everything going to feet? Every time? It's bollocks. Pep had some of the greatest talents ever to play the game at Barca, so his shit worked there and was very effective. Wenger ruined us by trying to do the same, when all his teams before were powerful, fast, direct, technical too but not to the degree where the joy was sucked out of the game.

Defenders re quick these days, you take a ball to feet, take that second touch, third touch and it's all over, you are closed down. Haven't you been watching our games? Same shit, over and over and over. There's NO first touch, just pace, power. That's why we need Gyokeres btw, absolutely ideal. Is he here yet? Why not?

[HCZ_Reborn]

No I don’t think I’m an expert with a deep understanding of the game, in fact in everything I’m saying is trying to get across the opposite. I’m an ordinary sort of chap when it comes to football, my understanding of the intricacies is pretty superficial. Unlike people here I never even played for a pub side or for the school team.

My issue with you is that not that I think I understand more about the game than you. It’s that with football as with everything else in life you are trapped in a way of thinking “it must be this way and no other way”, even if it leads you to absurd conclusions if it fits the narrative you want to project, anything goes.


We do play a certain system, and as a result we bought in players to compliment that system. You can change things at the drop of a hat if you’re having a Sunday kick about in the park but not when you’re up against fellow millionaire professionals who are drilled till their blue in the face to deal with what you can throw at them.

Managers win by having the best players and are more peripheral to a teams success than at any time in history. If that coach/manager doesn’t have the players he needs available to them, a mid match rethink in style is about as helpful as pissing off a cliff face on a windy day in Cleethorpes

[Niall_Quinn]

No I don’t think I’m an expert with a deep understanding of the game, in fact in everything I’m saying is trying to get across the opposite. I’m an ordinary sort of chap when it comes to football, my understanding of the intricacies is pretty superficial. Unlike people here I never even played for a pub side or for the school team.

My issue with you is that not that I think I understand more about the game than you. It’s that with football as with everything else in life you are trapped in a way of thinking “it must be this way and no other way”, even if it leads you to absurd conclusions if it fits the narrative you want to project, anything goes.


We do play a certain system, and as a result we bought in players to compliment that system. You can change things at the drop of a hat if you’re having a Sunday kick about in the park but not when you’re up against fellow millionaire professionals who are drilled till their blue in the face to deal with what you can throw at them.

Managers win by having the best players and are more peripheral to a teams success than at any time in history. If that coach/manager doesn’t have the players he needs available to them, a mid match rethink in style is about as helpful as pissing off a cliff face on a windy day in Cleethorpes

Total bullshit mate. Your MO, create the argument for somebody then knock it down with a resigned sigh. I've said we need to mix things up, not do everything one way as you are pretending is my argument. Yeah, these are multimillionaire professionals but you're the one claiming they can't play a long ball and can't trap a ball. Overpaid then? Total clear out and get some players in from Newcastle or Forest or Brentford or Fulham? They all seem to be able to move the ball up the pitch at a decent pace.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Total bullshit mate. Your MO, create the argument for somebody then knock it down with a resigned sigh. I've said we need to mix things up, not do everything one way as you are pretending is my argument. Yeah, these are multimillionaire professionals but you're the one claiming they can't play a long ball and can't trap a ball. Overpaid then? Total clear out and get some players in from Newcastle or Forest or Brentford or Fulham? They all seem to be able to move the ball up the pitch at a decent pace.

Your argument is that we are in the predicament we are in because we aren’t mixing it up. I’m saying you’re needlessly over complicating things.

I’m saying that when you’re playing in the premier league and you want to be direct you need players that are good at playing long balls and trapping long balls. Xhaka as terrible as he was, made a ball into a heat seeking missile with his left foot. You just launch a ball long in hope it gets headed away by the first defender who gets to it, and you immediately give up possession.


If you don’t have the player who plays the game in such a way that they can latch on to said heat seeking missile take it down and control it first time, you again will be dispossessed. Can our players play long balls and trap balls…I’m sure they can but unless you’re practising doing that to an art form you’re not going to bamboozle deep lying defences by doing so anymore than you are with death by a thousand passes….at least with the latter one you can keep the ball.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Don’t believe me. Look at Villa’s goal against Palace scored by Rodgers. If you’re telling me that wasn’t a move perfected on the training ground by players with the talent for it (Rodgers is both technically gifted and strong) I don’t know what to tell you.

[IBK]

Total bullshit mate. Your MO, create the argument for somebody then knock it down with a resigned sigh. I've said we need to mix things up, not do everything one way as you are pretending is my argument. Yeah, these are multimillionaire professionals but you're the one claiming they can't play a long ball and can't trap a ball. Overpaid then? Total clear out and get some players in from Newcastle or Forest or Brentford or Fulham? They all seem to be able to move the ball up the pitch at a decent pace.

I also disagree with HCZ that a total change of system is either what is being advocated or is necessary. For me it simply needs to be tweaked to progress the ball faster up the pitch with our CM's making runs to prevent our wingers automatically being overloaded. For me, we always look first to play the same passes into space - out wide, back to centre; back to our defenders - rinse and repeat - while the team as a whole creeps up the pitch to face a set defence and a congested final third. Our only creator in MF, Odegard, spends as much of his time running sideways and backwards as he does going forwards and there is rarely anyone making overlapping runs with him from central positions.

Solving this does not require a system change, it needs less emphasis on keeping possession and more bravery - particularly as the former generally comes to nothing anyway when our moves break down in an around the box.

[Niall_Quinn]

Your argument is that we are in the predicament we are in because we aren’t mixing it up. I’m saying you’re needlessly over complicating things.

I’m saying that when you’re playing in the premier league and you want to be direct you need players that are good at playing long balls and trapping long balls. Xhaka as terrible as he was, made a ball into a heat seeking missile with his left foot. You just launch a ball long in hope it gets headed away by the first defender who gets to it, and you immediately give up possession.


If you don’t have the player who plays the game in such a way that they can latch on to said heat seeking missile take it down and control it first time, you again will be dispossessed. Can our players play long balls and trap balls…I’m sure they can but unless you’re practising doing that to an art form you’re not going to bamboozle deep lying defences by doing so anymore than you are with death by a thousand passes….at least with the latter one you can keep the ball.

And I said what I said but you've ignored it and restated the original argument. So no progress there. Let me take a turn at putting words in your mouth. We can't play a more direct game because we don't have the players. Therefore we must stick with the 1mph tippy-tappy and hope we can unlock those defences you say are so accomplished. It's not working, partly because we have a big injury problem right now, but it hasn't worked over the last 2 decades either - no trophies! So I said let's buy players from teams that can play a more direct game, problem solved right? We should be able to get decent money for players like Odegard, Martinelli, Rice, Trossard, Nwaneri, Saka - enough to buy the whole Villa front line. Let's do it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And I said what I said but you've ignored it and restated the original argument. So no progress there. Let me take a turn at putting words in your mouth. We can't play a more direct game because we don't have the players. Therefore we must stick with the 1mph tippy-tappy and hope we can unlock those defences you say are so accomplished. It's not working, partly because we have a big injury problem right now, but it hasn't worked over the last 2 decades either - no trophies! So I said let's buy players from teams that can play a more direct game, problem solved right? We should be able to get decent money for players like Odegard, Martinelli, Rice, Trossard, Nwaneri, Saka - enough to buy the whole Villa front line. Let's do it.

Isn’t it ironic that when in your own mind you try and be more clear and direct, you end up being more garbled

Sorry, I saw words but can’t make head nor tails of that