No doubt he should get a chance, Cech is still a very good keeper but is in bad form at the moment, he's made quite a few high profile mistakes lately. I think Cech is still decent enough for us but there is no doubt he is in decline.Originally Posted by Power_n_Glory
Maybe dropping him would give him a much needed kick up the arse!
Cech was a model professional when he arrived here. It's hard to believe he'd need a kick up the arse to remind him he needs to put the performances in. He's the least likely candidate in the squad to be complacent. And yet, maybe the Arsenal Way is irrepressible. Maybe nobody can avoid dropping a level when Wenger goes to work.
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Must be quite the culture shock for him coming to this nice but ramshackle establishment, after so many years with a bunch of cunts hell bent on winning everything.
That approach takes away any responsibility the players have themselves
We know Wenger is bad at team selections, game plans and motivating players to leave everything on the pitch
But many of these players are just not pushing themselves, if that applies to Cech i don't know but Chelsea dropped him in favour of Thibault Courtouis because they probably could see that his best days were behind him.
Easy money for him, his retirement fund. Of course he most likely wants to win but I've no doubt he has worked it all out now. Minimum effort required, no accountability.
Have you ever worked in a place where everyone is taking the piss? It's a culture. It is very, very difficult (if not impossible) to be at the top of your game when everything around you is slack. Yes, you should push yourself anyway but if you have ever experienced a piss take environment you'll know that no matter how much effort you put it it doesn't make a blind bit of difference.
The chavs are proving this. Last season it was one giant piss take. The whole place was all about Maureen and Maureen's all encompassing ego. So the players took the year off because winning wasn't they purpose of the club that year. This season a new manager comes in, organises the place, explains that winning is back on the agenda and look at the result. Same players, bar one important addition, but essentially the same players. Same Hazard. Same Costa. Even same Fabregas. Luiz can suddenly kick a ball. Can all of them individually have had a lapse in professionalism last season? Maybe. It's possible, though improbable. Could they have collectively switched off last year because they simply couldn't compete with the Maureen Show? That seems more likely to me.
Wenger may not be a despicable shit like Maureen but he's having a similarly toxic effect on the club. I said it at the start of the season, said it at the mid-point and I'll say it at the end when we have failed to do ourselves justice again. Wenger is a huge weight dragging everything else down. Even massive characters like Alexis are starting to look disinterested. You have to be pure poison to neutralise Alexis' enthusiasm. And the only player I can think of in our squad who might compete with Alexis in terms of desire is Cech. I just can't see Cech deciding to coast, not unless that's why he came here in the first place. What I can see is players in different states of realisation that no matter what they do Wenger will undo it.
Why are we even talking about this? We've all seen the team this season, unprepared, demotivated, lacking heart, failing to turn up for the first half. There's a sickness at the club that has affected everyone in contact with it. It seems very obvious to me. The difference between ourselves and the chavs is the latter quickly moved to find a cure. They were down and out for one year. Our board doesn't even realise there's a problem. This has been going on for a decade. I wonder how long we have before a chronic problem becomes an unrecoverable, terminal one?
Yes, it's fair to demand 100% from the players. They get paid enough and have enough perks and privileges to deliver that as a minimum. But even the most powerful engines can't escape a black hole. You can strain on full power until the engine blows but you are going to be sucked in by that super massive, crushing, annihilating force. Hope, ambition, joy, entertainment, progress, the very randomness of life itself, Wenger swallows it all without mercy.
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I agree with that we have a culture at the club that’s problematic. From the Board to the manager. I’ve made this argument before, but I can understand the Board not being as desperate to win the league but I can’t understand why a sportsman would have that attitude. That applies to Wenger and the players.
When looking at the poor performances during project youth, besides the manager being a soft touch, we’d often argue that the players weren’t good enough and maybe Wenger’s faith in them being/becoming ‘super quality’ players were misguided. There was no evidence to back up his claims and you only have to look at where some of those players ended up as further proof.
But as said yesterday, there were players in project youth that weren’t totally sapped by the culture and shined when playing but were let down by the system/coach. They wanted championships so badly they had to go elsewhere to succeed. Cesc and RVP in particular. They hung in there with Arsene until they couldn’t do it anymore and just took their talents elsewhere. I’ve always thought those players needed to be surrounded by quality, experience and players of the right mentality to win something with Arsenal.
But now seeing what’s going on with some of the players here makes me think it’s a case of complacency for some of our main players. They should know better. Maybe it’s old age with Cech, but he plays in a role where the system should have no bearing on his reflexes as a keeper. Not unless it’s set pieces and corners can I excuse him for mistakes. Situations where there is confusion on who is doing what. But I can’t excuse him for getting beat on his near post just because Kos and Musatfi have fallen asleep. His instincts and reflexes should kick in. All he’s required to do is dive. It’s not complicated.
It’s similar to the point I was making about Ozil last night. I can understand if he’s not playing with the right sort of players in front of him or not getting the ball quick enough. I can understand if he’s not seeing the players make the right sort of runs. But seeing how he played for Madrid and the way he could pick the ball up from a deep area and run past two or three defenders….the way he’d use his pace….why isn’t that happening for us? There is nothing stopping a player from trying to dribble. It’s the most soloist thing you can do in football where you only need to receive the ball in order to dribble. Take the initiate. Take the responsibility to make something happen like we’d see with Henry, Vieira, Pires and Bergkamp.
Speaking of that era, it’s well known that Wenger wasn’t a disciplinarian. The players would often play jokes on each other and things were light at times but they never slacked off in training or on match day. Things have changed in football and the level of competition has risen, but these guys wouldn’t just roll over and not even attempt to tackle and run as we’ve seen in some games. It’s inexcusable that they’re not mentally ready for a game.
My theory, the talent is obviously there but I question how much a player like Cech and Ozil still want to win titles since they’ve won the biggest prizes in the football. Sure, they need a kick up the backside but it says a lot about them if they slack off. It’s not the same as the Chelsea situation. Not even close. That was mutiny where the players couldn’t stand the manager and they knew there owner has no problem pulling the trigger. With us, there in the sort of environment where you stand out and rise quickly or sink like a stone if you haven’t got the right attitude. Take Coquelin for example. A very limited player but I don’t question his commitment. A misplaced pass I can forgive. A bad decision to try and win the ball back instantly, I can forgive that. Even getting bounced off the ball by Hazard, I can forgive that. But I’d have a serious problem if he just lost the ball and never bothered to chase back. I’d have a serious problem with him if he wasn’t showing up to receive the ball and shunned responsibility of playing it forward.
That’s my two cents anyway. I’d cut some slack to the young inexperienced players because I thought they were suffering from a lack of confidence and being asked to perform something beyond their talents. I can’t say the same for this squad. Even if it’s a tactical mess out there, show some professionalism.
I actually agree and you can see on the pitch there are players even when they are shoe horned into a mess of a formation where they will always try, and some players that unless everything is right for them will just shrug their shoulders and let the game pass them by.
Although i am not quite sure Cesc falls into the bracket you explain because there were plenty of games where he was a lazy little scrote and didn't bother to turn up (especially in his last season with us), someone like Van Persie as much as we hate him for going to United he practically single handedly dragged us into third place in 2012/2013.
And you're right there are also players with less ability who also give everything, Yaya Sanogo barely can walk on two legs but you'd never accuse him of not giving us everything I was at the Emirates when he scored his one and only goal for us to date and i was really pleased for him.
I give Monreal plenty of stick because of how slow he is, but at the same time.....again he's not a lazy player he will cover ground and put himself about he's just going to get exposed for pace.....I remember when we left ourselves so totally without defensive cover that he played centre back for us and often i saw him working far harder in that position than Per Mertesacker (I used to go to the Emirates quite a bit at that time, used to watch Monreal work his arse off but Mertesacker used to just bowl up to the half way line to watch us in attack as if he had paid for a ticket like us in the stands)
Ramsey is in shocking form and on top of that there is simply the feeling that his attitude stinks, he gives the ball away against Watford for their second goal and he just glares at Gabriel instead of running back, and you mention Coquelin although he failed he seemed to be the only one even bothering to try and catch Capoue.
Cech I don't think it's a case of lack of effort, he has just long ago peaked......one of his weaknesses even at Chelsea was getting beaten too often at his near post, and i think as the clock is working against him so is his body.....he just seems slow to react....sometimes goalkeepers mature like wine but Cech was at his best far earlier in his career than someone like David Seaman for instance.
I think good leadership brings the best out of all players and that is seriously lacking at the top and it's why Wenger has to go, but it's never acceptable for professionals at this level to say "well there is no consequence to my poor performances and i'm getting paid anyway so who cares". Firstly it's clear that not every player at Arsenal has that attitude, Sanchez and Welbeck will have bad games but you can never fault their application.
Only thing we know for sure is it will all remain exactly the same for as long as Wenger is here.
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I don't think Wenger is a force sapping the life out of everything but neither is he a win at all costs **** like Fergie.
His greatest success came when we had a strong captain. Adams wouldn't let them get away with some of the rubbish we see from this lot.
I don't even know who our captain is right now.
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