Former Players Views

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I wouldn't say it like that. It looked like we panicked to be fair. I don't think we've bought the type of players that would only insist on a move until we've qualified for the Champs League.

Well I don't know about the others but Arteta said himself the lure of the Champions League was the big thing for him joining. However, I am not suggesting we went in for these players before hand and were told, wait until you qualify. I'm more getting at the cautiousness from on our side! We might have panicked, I don't know but I feel the reason we got ourselves in to that situation where we might have needed to panic, for me, is that of the Champions League. I'm not excusing us from the fact we left until the very last day but the situation we were in then (after qualiifying) is different to the situation we were in a month ago.

Also, all the players we bought could not otherwise play in Europe, obviously that came quite late in Fenerbahce's case!

[Niall_Quinn]

Well I don't know about the others but Arteta said himself the lure of the Champions League was the big thing for him joining. However, I am not suggesting we went in for these players before hand and were told, wait until you qualify. I'm more getting at the cautiousness from on our side! We might have panicked, I don't know but I feel the reason we got ourselves in to that situation where we might have needed to panick, for me, is that of the Champions League. I'm not excusing us from the fact we left until the very last day but the situation we were in then (after qualiifying) is different to the situation we were in a month ago.

You'd think then they might have signed players to guarantee our CL spot at the end of this season too? I'm not sure we've done that with what we have signed. So this is most likely a band-aid. I really think we had our business done fairly early with Gerv, Ox and Jenks and Wenger thought he had enough. I don't think any of the latecomers would be here if we'd have grabbed an unlikely draw with Utd or maybe gone down by one or two goals. Then the missing players could be used as a credible excuse. But 8-2? There's a lot more going on than missing players when the reserves that are supposedly going to see you through a typical season of injuries and suspensions get hammered like that. Panic stations and maybe even a note from above to stop tarnishing the brand.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

You'd think then they might have signed players to guarantee our CL spot at the end of this season too? I'm not sure we've done that with what we have signed. So this is most likely a band-aid. I really think we had our business done fairly early with Gerv, Ox and Jenks and Wenger thought he had enough. I don't think any of the latecomers would be here if we'd have grabbed an unlikely draw with Utd or maybe gone down by one or two goals. Then the missing players could be used as a credible excuse. But 8-2? There's a lot more going on than missing players when the reserves that are supposedly going to see you through a typical season of injuries and suspensions get hammered like that. Panic stations and maybe even a note from above to stop tarnishing the brand.

I think the majority of players want definite assurances - the Champions League is such a big deal now they won't often take the risk on going to a club who might miss out on making it especially if they are already at a club that definitely are in it, unless huge money is involved (say Falcao). Look at Tottenham last year, it wasn't until after they had qualified they bought anyone of any note although even then it was hardly a flood of players. I don't believe Wenger had thought he had enough, even when we have lost players they have been replaced in that position with others. Sure they might not have turned out to be as good but in terms of one in, one out, that has generally been done - like when Henry was sold and we got Eduardo in soon after.

I think that behaviour of players filters down (or up) and rightly or wrongly influences managerial decisions.

[Power n Glory]

Well I don't know about the others but Arteta said himself the lure of the Champions League was the big thing for him joining. However, I am not suggesting we went in for these players before hand and were told, wait until you qualify. I'm more getting at the cautiousness from on our side! We might have panicked, I don't know but I feel the reason we got ourselves in to that situation where we might have needed to panic, for me, is that of the Champions League. I'm not excusing us from the fact we left until the very last day but the situation we were in then (after qualiifying) is different to the situation we were in a month ago.

Also, all the players we bought could not otherwise play in Europe, obviously that came quite late in Fenerbahce's case!

With our record in the Champs League, even with the qualification round, I think most players would have jumped on board to play for us. Mertesaker is an Arsenal fan right? Or always had dreams of playing in England. We could have signed him last summer or back in January. Instead we signed Kosienly and Squallaci and we knew Verms was out for the season but we chose not to buy. Why buy him now? I'd say it's the Man U game.

Arteta would say the Champs League is a big draw, but I'm sure he'd be happy to come on board to play in the qualification rounds to help us through. He plays for Everton. No disrespect to his club, but it's not like he plays for Real Madrid or AC Milan and he's moving to club like Tottenham or Man City that has no history of Champions League football.

The Man U game changed things. To be fair to Wenger, he did say he wanted to sign three more players before the Man U game, but that game changed things. At one point he said Traore could play as left back and the next day he's sold and we buy Santos.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

With our record in the Champs League, even with the qualification round, I think most players would have jumped on board to play for us. Mertesaker is an Arsenal fan right? Or always had dreams of playing in England. We could have signed him last summer or back in January. Instead we signed Kosienly and Squallaci and we knew Verms was out for the season but we chose not to buy. Why buy him now? I'd say it's the Man U game.

Arteta would say the Champs League is a big draw, but I'm sure he'd be happy to come on board to play in the qualification rounds to help us through. He plays for Everton. No disrespect to his club, but it's not like he plays for Real Madrid or AC Milan and he's moving to club like Tottenham or Man City that has no history of Champions League football.

The Man U game changed things. To be fair to Wenger, he did say he wanted to sign three more players before the Man U game, but that game changed things. At one point he said Traore could play as left back and the next day he's sold and we buy Santos.

I'm not sure players look out for anything other than cold, hard facts but anyway:

Well our record in the Champions League qualification has been very good, that is very true but how many times had we come in to the season being almost universally written off, along with losing our two best players and at that point had no replacements for them, well, not any bought ones anyway.

You mention Squillaci but he didn't play in the Man Utd game. For whatever reason it might be that did we get Mertesacker, Squillaci can't be a consideration based solely on what happened in that game, unless Wenger imagined it'd be much worse with him there instead, perhaps. Also, we bought Koscielny before Vermaelen's injury - was Squillaci just after?

Maybe if we had tried to get Arteta earlier on, in that case Everton might have wanted it drag on and on, hoping they can get more for him (certainly Everton need it). And If Arteta had expressed a desire to leave after this supposed offer from us in early August, what would you do as Moyes/Kenwright in that situation?

I've already said I am not excusing us from doing all the work on the final two days but the fact it happened so quickly (compared with us in the summer), when we didn't even overpay particularly, suggests that the circumstances we were in post-Udinese did help to speed things up quite considerably.

[Cripps_orig]

Former Arsenal player and icon Robert Pires has come out in support of under-fire manager Arsene Wenger, but he admits that his compatriot should change his ways having not won anything since 2005.

The winger played for the north London club between 2000 and 20006 before joining Villarreal.

Although he won the Premier League twice and the FA Cup three times under Wenger, his time there was not all plain sailing, and included a humiliating defeat to Manchester United – just as the current crop of players experienced an embarrassing 8-2 defeat at Old Trafford in their last domestic outing.

“I remember when we were beaten 6-1 at Old Trafford. Immediately afterwards, the president [David Dein] publicly supported Arsene and the team,” Pires told France Football. “It had an effect – the next game we slammed West Ham 3-0.

“At the moment, Arsenal will struggle to compete with the big teams and that's what scares me. The current team – that was good last season – is missing parts.

“Losing at Old Trafford happens to everyone. But when you let in three, four, five goals you have to stick together. Letting in eight? That is not normal.”

Some fans haved called for Wenger’s resignation but Pires believes firing the manager would be premature, although he admits his compatriot should consider changing his methods.

He said: “We must allow time for Arsene, to trust him. I respect his philosophy. But is it good? I would suggest not in relation to statistics.

“He has not won anything since he took that direction, so he will perhaps have to change his tune. I know what Arsene is capable of, but he must have the backing of the owner.

“Arsene is caught in a storm and I will be the first to support him because I love the man and the coach. And that team continues to play good football.

“Arsene must build his team as he has always wanted, with players who like the ball but also with warriors.

“You can't start a young team like that and say 'we must win the championship'. [Sir Alex] Ferguson is getting it right now. He built on his team – he bought Ashley Young when he already had Nani and [Antonio] Valencia.

“When we went from Highbury to the Emirates, there was a change. At Highbury there was an atmosphere, people were close to you, it was a stage.

“Arsenal chose to move for business reasons. It's part of the life of a club, but we lost something [as a result]."

Wenger was criticised heavily in some quarters for his complacency in the transfer window that led to a frantic rush for players on deadline day.

The French coach finalised deals for left-back Andre Santos from Fenerbahce, centre-back Per Mertesacker from Werder Bremen, Yossi Benayoun on loan from Chelsea, and midfielder Mikel Arteta from Everton.

Pires revealed this method of transfer dealings from the north London club came as no surprise to him as it is simply Wenger’s way.

“I'm not surprised he has not brought in players before [the end of August]. It's totally Arsene, all is well, but at some point, when you take the opposite view and it's late August, you have to do something."

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/...anager-arsene-

How much more time should Wenger have?

[Power n Glory]

I'm not sure players look out for anything other than cold, hard facts but anyway:

Well our record in the Champions League qualification has been very good, that is very true but how many times had we come in to the season being almost universally written off, along with losing our two best players and at that point had no replacements for them, well, not any bought ones anyway.

You mention Squillaci but he didn't play in the Man Utd game. For whatever reason it might be that did we get Mertesacker, Squillaci can't be a consideration based solely on what happened in that game, unless Wenger imagined it'd be much worse with him there instead, perhaps. Also, we bought Koscielny before Vermaelen's injury - was Squillaci just after?

Maybe if we had tried to get Arteta earlier on, in that case Everton might have wanted it drag on and on, hoping they can get more for him (certainly Everton need it). And If Arteta had expressed a desire to leave after this supposed offer from us in early August, what would you do as Moyes/Kenwright in that situation?

I've already said I am not excusing us from doing all the work on the final two days but the fact it happened so quickly (compared with us in the summer), when we didn't even overpay particularly, suggests that the circumstances we were in post-Udinese did help to speed things up quite considerably.

I mention Squillaci because Wenger chose to sign him and Kosienly instead of Mertesaker last year. He didn't play against Man U, but Wenger already knows he's struggling for confidence so he didn't need to.

All summer, Wenger has been talking about not being able to find the right quality for the right price but we've always known Mertesaker was an option. He could have done with him last winter when Verms was out and when it was obvious that our defenders were struggling. He's not a surprise signing.

I don't think the Champs League qualification was that important. Look to our past record. It's not the first time we've had to qualify for the Champs League and usually, our main players feature in the games. Vermaelen played in his debut season, the same goes for Nasri and Sagna. We usually get our main players in early so they can help us qualify. I suspect we've had our eye on Gervinho for quite a while and we tied up his deal before we qualified. It's never been a problem in the past.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I mention Squillaci because Wenger chose to sign him and Kosienly instead of Mertesaker last year. He didn't play against Man U, but Wenger already knows he's struggling for confidence so he didn't need to.

All summer, Wenger has been talking about not being able to find the right quality for the right price but we've always known Mertesaker was an option. He could have done with him last winter when Verms was out and when it was obvious that our defenders were struggling. He's not a surprise signing.

I don't think the Champs League qualification was that important. Look to our past record. It's not the first time we've had to qualify for the Champs League and usually, our main players feature in the games. Vermaelen played in his debut season, the same goes for Nasri and Sagna. We usually get our main players in early so they can help us qualify. I suspect we've had our eye on Gervinho for quite a while and we tied up his deal before we qualified. It's never been a problem in the past.

The seasons you mentioned are not seasons where we had sold our two best players. Not only could that on its own be enough for players to be a bit circumspect in joining, I guess the fact selling Nasri and Fabregas took so long didn't help either. Like you suggest, our replacements have come in early in the past but generally after we have sold players. You mention what Wenger said which is fine, you're probably right there but don't forget he also said you cannot convince people you are a big club should you sell your best two players.

Our main players now are the ones that have come in! Again I'll repeat, you say we have brought players in early - that is the norm. So why is it that we acted so late this time? If we're making the distinction between this summer and previous ones then it's probably logical there was something else that was a contributing factor. And that's what you're leaving out in your responses to me - I said in previous posts, for me, it's the combination of both losing our best two players and not definitely being in the Champions League. However being in the Champions League for sure, will help.

[Power n Glory]

The seasons you mentioned are not seasons where we had sold our two best players. Not only could that on its own be enough for players to be a bit circumspect in joining, I guess the fact selling Nasri and Fabregas took so long didn't help either. Like you suggest, our replacements have come in early in the past but generally after we have sold players. You mention what Wenger said which is fine, you're probably right there but don't forget he also said you cannot convince people you are a big club should you sell your best two players.

Our main players now are the ones that have come in! Again I'll repeat, you say we have brought players in early - that is the norm. So why is it that we acted so late this time? If we're making the distinction between this summer and previous ones then it's probably logical there was something else that was a contributing factor. And that's what you're leaving out in your responses to me - I said in previous posts, for me, it's the combination of both losing our best two players and not definitely being in the Champions League. However being in the Champions League for sure, will help.

We've always been the underdog and sold off key players each season. We've always been the team in danger of losing our Champs League spot. If we were having trouble signing players like Kaka and Mata because they wanted Champs League football, then I'd understand that position. But besides Mertesaker, these guys are nobodies. We're a step up to their previous clubs and that includes Mertesakers. I can't imagine any of them acting like divas.

When we signed Arshavin, we were close to losing our Champions League spot, we sold off two of our main players that performed well last season but he still joined us and at a point where he knew he was eligible for the Champs League football and where there was a danger of us not qualifying.

Taking so long to sell off Nasri and Cesc was probably a factor but we went out and bought a left back and CB when we've known all summer that we needed players for those positions. I actually think Wenger was willing to take a risk and go into the season with the players we had. It's not the first time he's said we'll buy and has gone back on what he originally said. Also, after the Newcastle game, he praised our defence and started to mock journalists and all those that kept on going on at him about buying defenders. It's been a poor start to the season but if we'd have picked up more points I doubt we'd have seen so many last minute moves.

You ask why have we acted so late...ask yourself that. What's so different about this season compared to previous seasons? It's not the first time we've lost main players and it's not the first time we've had to qualify for the Champions League. Cesc and Nasri are big players, but Henry is even bigger. We lost him but didn't go crazy in the transfer window because the squad was looking good and ready for the challenge ahead. We were playing better and got off to a flyer. It's the complete opposite this season.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Arshavin's alternative was to stay at Zenit and they had already been knocked out of the Champions League. Plus, their domestic season had already finished (they did not qualify for the Champions League 09/10).

I'm not sure why you're talking about players being divas because I certainly am not. Arteta a nobody? That's pretty odd for somebody suggesting players might be acting with ideas above their station. Is he on the level of Mata (Kaka is gone)? No, obviously not, we all know him though (!) but that's an irrelevance anyway.

I'm asking you why you think we acted so late - this whole back and forth started by me expressing (vicariously) to GG why I think we did. You can ask me what's so different but the fact is and you've already conceded this, we have done things differently this year to other ones. There has to be a reason for that surely? If Wenger comes out of his own volition and says that you cannot say you're not a big club anymore if you sell your two best players, is it not possible that level of thinking is transmitted and influenced throughout the board and their combined decisions? I don't remember him saying that after Henry had left, probably because we hadn't lost him during his prime years. We also sold Henry fairly early on, late June, possibly? Plus one of those players went to a club we are supposed to be competing with.

Maybe the only way we'll sift through all this is if we think as what kind of club you would join (or hope to join) if you were a player of, on say the same level as Arteta? And would you have taken stock of all the things that have been at happening at those clubs you might possibly join? I know I would but I guess I haven't been in that football environment of an early age, so if I was, maybe my mentality would be different.