Clichy has left. And Nasri in talks with Citeh.

[Mr. Lahey]

[QUOTE=Toronto Gooner;16712]

At the age of 24, Nasri has had 290 appearances, scored 39 goals and has 43 assists, with 22 French caps, 2 goals and 3 assists.

At the same age, Ronaldo had 292 appearances and 118 goals (with the final three season totals being 23, 42, and 26). Internationally, Ronaldo had 60 caps with 21 goals.

For full "comparison", Messi has 269 appearances, 180 goals and 73 assists. Internationally, he has 61 caps, 17 goals and 14 assists.

thanks for those stats...there is a big there for sure. I still believe he will be up there as one of the best in the world.

[Niall_Quinn]

Rather than going off on a rant, it would be a good idea to actually answer the question the question I posed? Is it good business to consistently pay 30% higher than your valuation for something? Would you pay a 30% premium when buying a house?

It's a loaded question, dishonest. Since when have we "consistently" paid 30% over odds for anything? But we've under-invested by a significant amount as we've seen from the repeat calamities on the pitch. How come 6 years of underinvestment goes unmentioned whilst a MERE £4mill creates talk of "premiums" and over-payment? We already know what we get with the bargain basement left-overs, don't we? We should have plenty to spare in the tight-wad's kitty, 6 years of raping the fans and boasting about profits and topping football's rich list. What was it all for if not to improve things on the pitch?

Even if pure business, which football isn't, it's all well and good for a factory producing widgets to penny pinch - provided they don't end up producing shit widgets that nobody wants to buy. Penny pinching for the sake of penny pinching is not admirable or advantageous by default. The end result counts too.

[Toronto Gooner]

It's a loaded question, dishonest. Since when have we "consistently" paid 30% over odds for anything?

Why is it a loaded question? It is pretty simple. You have a budget of 700,000 and the house you "love" is 1,000,000: Would you pay the extra 300,000? People pay more than the asking/list price because they let their emotions dictate the purchasing decision.

How come 6 years of underinvestment goes unmentioned whilst a MERE £4mill creates talk of "premiums" and over-payment?

Perhaps it is because you spoke specifically about Arsenal allegedly wanting to pay just 13 million and Bolton wanting a mere extra 4 million, valuing Cahill at 17 million.

I was not addressing the issue of whether Arsenal have bought the right players. I was addressing the question of whether it is good business practice to pay a 30% premium above the club's valuation for a player to fill one position. I am not certain what you consider football but it is reality part of the entertainment business. In ALL situations of commercial enterprise, the object of the game is to make enough money to cover the start-up, capital and operational costs, with a certain level of extra money for the investors and shareholders. In the case of a commercial enterprise in the not-for-profit sector, there is still a need to cover the costs with a some extra money (usually called a margin).

Now if you wish to discuss the past 6 to 7 years of player purchases, I am more than willing to do so. I suspect that we might actually find more than a few areas of agreement.

Even if pure business, which football isn't, it's all well and good for a factory producing widgets to penny pinch - provided they don't end up producing shit widgets that nobody wants to buy. Penny pinching for the sake of penny pinching is not admirable or advantageous by default. The end result counts too.

As I noted above, I am not certain what you mean by pure business, as every commercial enterprise is a business.

[Niall_Quinn]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.

[ElusiveGooner]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.

In fact, that is a fantastic post.

[Kaiser]

Brilliant as always.

(Btw the DM has pictured Clichy in Manchester with his agent Darren Dein, the utter cunt).

[selassie]

You are essentially reducing the whole rationale behind football to a financial equation, just as Wenger does. Of course the club shouldn't just throw money at every problem, that would be equally as bad. But there's an element of investment in football, you put back into the club what you earn and you also speculate to accumulate, and indeed there's an element of risk to that. Wenger is a risk free manager and as such he's pretty much unsuited to league we're in. This isn't about buying houses or cars, neither is it a typical business scenario as you try to suggest. How many top flight clubs have actually gone bust and closed down over the years, say in comparison to the local businesses? Even in the most dire circumstances, Leeds, Portsmouth, these clubs took a risk (or hired Harry Redknapp which is suicidal) and paid in terms of their status, but they still plough on. That's because sport is still (thank fuck) different to a typical business, even though it's rapidly heading in the wrong direction egged on by accountant types like Wenger. There's a connection between the club and the local area, there's a fan base, you can't substitute brand Y for brand X if you are an Arsenal supporter, there's only one Arsenal. If the business types have their way all this will change and in fact the indications are these narrow minded and emotional cripples are having it their way and killing the game in the process. What are we looking for? Arsenal FC one year, Emirates FC the next? A merger with THFC? All of the usual crap that goes on in business but brought to the football world? Football is different, whether you care to admit it or not, and people like Wenger aren't helping the game at all, he's driving it into the hands of people who only care about the money and don't give a shit about the sport - like our board.

If I'm a bum then I don't buy the expensive house because I know next year is likely to be just as unambitious as the previous. But if I'm a go-getter I speculate that the work I will do and the effort I'll put in will see me move ahead the next year to a better place, always on the up. So I might say fuck it and buy the more expensive house because I'm looking to improve rather than just exist. The big winners are also the big risk takers, those who play it safe might find a comfort zone but they don't rise to the top.

Nobody wants Wenger to throw millions around recklessly, they just want him to demonstrate he still has a pulse and is aware there's a lot more to this game than balancing the books. Do you think the guy still has the winning drive? I don't. I'd put my money with him if I wanted a solid 5% each year but I wouldn't waste my time backing him to win at football.

Who thinks the fans would have sat on their hands if the board had been honest and said this stadium move was a decade long project that would see the team emaciated in the process? Who would have sat still if they knew the board was going to bail before that process was completed? Do you see what's happened here? Our club has been sacrificed so a bunch of shits who didn't even need the money can cash in. That's the long and short of it. What does £4million mean to those guys? Lady Whatsherface banked £120mill+ didn't she? How much did she put in? How much did any of the other bastards put in and how much are they set to walk away with? Where's "Do Nothing" Stan getting all the cash from? Do we know yet?

They can stick their business model up their arses as far as I'm concerned. They can crow about its virtue all they want and meanwhile a team that used to be able to compete with the likes on Utd (they used to have to kick us of the pitch because they couldn't live with us) is swirling around the toilet bowl waiting for the one big final flush from Wenger. All is well, don't be so impatient, appreciate what you've got, he tells us - as he merrily continues to neglect the glaring problems this club has been facing for years and the fans sit and watch the team being humiliated by the likes of Newcastle, West Brom and Birmingham fucking City.

Shankley had it right, not Wenger. Football is much, much more than a sordid, nasty money-making trip for rich guys, or at least it fucking should be.

Superb post NQ.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Outstanding post NQ.

[IBK]

Me neither, it seems that as soon as a player says or does something they don't want to hear they make him public eneney number.

The fans don't believe Wenger can win anything anymore, he doesn't seem too bothered about making quality signings that will make a difference, so why should players who have one year left sign up for another few years when they could go to a club with better prospects and more ambition.

Don't blame the guy and if Wenger doesn't sign any decent players soon he'll be making the right choice for his career if he decides to move on IMO.

I think you and Boss are confusing 2 issues.

Yes - agitating for a bigger pay day/wanting to win things are pretty standard for footballers these days, and given that a lot of Gooners are losing/have lost faith with AW you can't really blame players for feeling the same.

But the real issue here is whether Nasri merits being the highest wage earner at the club. He was on fire for 4 months last season, but if people really think he compares, consistency and performance wise to the likes of Rooney, Drogba - hell even VDV who for most of last season was Spurs' most important player, then they are much mistaken. As I said earlier, if you talk the talk you need to walk the walk, and Nasri's loss of form was perhaps the most conspicuous of anyone's during our dismal collapse.

The bottom line is that fingers would not be pointed at all if Nasri hadn't made himself into the latest in a long line of Arsenal players who show a single season or less of top form, and then think that they have made it. People slag off Cesc as well, but how many seasons of good form has he given us? Compare and contrast the likes of Adebayor, Flamini and Hleb.

Interestingly, since Bale and Modric have been brought up, Bale signed a 50K a week deal in 2010, and increased this to £70K in March following a pretty amazing 2 seasons. Modric signed a 7 year 70K pw deal in 2010. Nasri refused to sign last year and wants £110K plus pw or he's threatening to run his contract down and join our fiercest rivals. I don't think its too difficult to see where the antipathy is coming from.

[Marc Overmars]

I wonder if Nasri turns up to training today. And Cesc for that matter.