Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[GP]

Not sure where I'd put a CM in our list of priorities?

Well 3 of them will be out the door, so we need numbers in there at least.

[Özim]

Very selective memory has Arsene. Its why I am not sure the defeats really hurt him that badly. Yes, during the game and in the immediate aftermath I think it gets to him, but after that it seems to be quickly consigned to just another case of bad luck, conditions were not perfect, poor referee etc etc.

I know he has never been in the business of publicly slamming his own players, which I get. But maybe after 20 years of repeating the same sort of thing, he does generally believe what he's saying now.

Spot on,he gets over bad runs and results very quickly, they never seem to affect for long and one shirt unbeaten run or the odd decent performance for a player are good enough to convince him things are perfect or that a player is good enough.

You can't trust him to see things as they are as he's ridiculously easy to please.

[I am invisible]

He's certainly worth a place in the squad based on a season where's taken plaudits like that - and it's only his second full season as a pro, which looks promising. Of course the Championship is the Championship but I can't recall a player going out on loan and getting such high praise. I agree about the current first team sqaud too and the fact that a swathe of new signings are not going to resolve the issue. The only concern is what Wenger will do with someone like Toral. He's an attacking mid I believe, so a place on the wing could be the only spot he gets a shot at in the near future, which is far from ideal.

Same goes for Toral as I was saying about Walcott: if he wants to play for this club, at this time, then you take whatever spot is available and make it your own. His preferred role might become available at some point down the line, but at this stage of his career he shouldn't be focussed on anything more than doing the job that the team demands, and making a name for himself.

I've never really seen minor switches like that as being a problem for talented attackers anyway - the skill set involved is pretty much the same whether you're playing left, right or central: creative passing, accurate shooting, intelligent movement, (ideally) decent dribbling ability, etc. If you think of it as going from point A to point B, where point B is always the opponents goal, then does it really matter that much where point A is? Most attacks are pretty fluid these days anyway, with any attacker popping up anywhere depending on how the play unfolds...

[Power n Glory]

Interesting. I've always thought of it as being the evolution of the traditional goal-poacher role, but I can see the inverted winger thing too? I suppose it can be either - I've seen players who come to the role from more of a striking background, and others who were more traditional traditional wingers. The role as it is now demands a bit of both, but I think you can still tell what background the player has come from when you look at them, and both can work in their own way. Pires and Ljungberg are a good example of the difference: Pires was far more of a dribbler and a creative, and was more likely to cut inside onto his stronger foot from a bit further out, whereas Ljungberg was more of a burst-through-the-lines type, as he'd look to overlap the forwards and finish first time. I agree that there's no chance that Walcott was ever being another Pires, but I think he could have made a passable Ljungberg? Doesn't necessarily matter if you're not the best at dribbling - you can work around that by building a solid understanding with your fullback. I never thought Freddie was an amazing dribbler either, but it was never an issue because he knew how to work with Ralphy on the overlap.

With Ramsey and Cesc, I don't have a problem with them being focussed more towards hunting goals, per se - it only becomes a serious problem for me when we put them in central midfield. I just think it's a fundamental mis-match between playing style and the demands of that particular role. As you say, what you want to see in a modern central midfielder is more what we're seeing from Elneny - you need to have the ability to do a bit of everything, but it has to be married to positional discipline and solid judgment. Cesc and Ramsey as attackers? No problem with that at all. Cesc and Ramsey as central midfielders? Doesn't work for me - not with how we've trained them to play.

Are there many goal poachers playing wide these days? When you say goal poacher, I think of players play Inzaghi, Owen and Raul. Thomas Muller perhaps for the modern game? I don’t know.

Yes, you’re right to mention Ljungberg and that’s who Wenger has told Theo to base his game on. Freddie wasn’t a dribbler and recall he played a ACM role for Sweden instead of playing the flanks like he did at Arsenal. I guess because he comes from a midfield background he’s more inclined to work his way into the box using other players around him. Thinking about it more, it reminds me of how we’ve tried to use Rosicky on the flanks, Nasri or even Ramsey. But even though these players look more polished than Theo, it never really worked because we’d still have problems breaking a team down. Different era for Freddie. I don’t know how well a Ljunberg type would work for us today. Players like Rosicky, Nasri and Ramsey are more rounded players than Theo. They’re central players that can play wide but that natural inclination to pass just feeds into that overplaying mentality we have. Square pegs in round holes. I don’t know if I’d want that sort of player on the flanks again.

But Theo certainly could have tried to get more involved with the build-up play. I don’t know what’s happened to Theo’s game recently. He’s fully focussed on making runs in around the box instead of trying to work the ball a bit more. It makes him look even more useless. I don’t know why Wenger hasn’t pointed out the low figures on his passing and touch of the ball stats. Or why Theo himself can’t assess a situation for himself and adjust his game. I really don’t know why we have so many players that can’t take the initiative. It really pisses me off. They can’t adjust their game on the fly. They just keeping doing the same crap over and over. We struggling to control the middle of the park but Ramsey continues to show no discipline in his movement and won’t making supporting runs as we see from Elneny. Ozil constantly passing and passing instead of trying to create a shooting opportunity for himself for a change. Giroud spending the whole game trying to wrestle defenders instead of losing his marker and making penetrative runs. Wilshere releasing the ball earlier so he doesn’t injury himself. I don’t know why they’re so brain dead and dull. Wenger is partly to blame but I don’t see him as an inflexible manager that tells these guys to stick to the script or else. So I partly agree with the criticism of the players as well.

[Özim]

Are there many goal poachers playing wide these days? When you say goal poacher, I think of players play Inzaghi, Owen and Raul. Thomas Muller perhaps for the modern game? I don’t know.

Yes, you’re right to mention Ljungberg and that’s who Wenger has told Theo to base his game on. Freddie wasn’t a dribbler and recall he played a ACM role for Sweden instead of playing the flanks like he did at Arsenal. I guess because he comes from a midfield background he’s more inclined to work his way into the box using other players around him. Thinking about it more, it reminds me of how we’ve tried to use Rosicky on the flanks, Nasri or even Ramsey. But even though these players look more polished than Theo, it never really worked because we’d still have problems breaking a team down. Different era for Freddie. I don’t know how well a Ljunberg type would work for us today. Players like Rosicky, Nasri and Ramsey are more rounded players than Theo. They’re central players that can play wide but that natural inclination to pass just feeds into that overplaying mentality we have. Square pegs in round holes. I don’t know if I’d want that sort of player on the flanks again.

But Theo certainly could have tried to get more involved with the build-up play. I don’t know what’s happened to Theo’s game recently. He’s fully focussed on making runs in around the box instead of trying to work the ball a bit more. It makes him look even more useless. I don’t know why Wenger hasn’t pointed out the low figures on his passing and touch of the ball stats. Or why Theo himself can’t assess a situation for himself and adjust his game. I really don’t know why we have so many players that can’t take the initiative. It really pisses me off. They can’t adjust their game on the fly. They just keeping doing the same crap over and over. We struggling to control the middle of the park but Ramsey continues to show no discipline in his movement and won’t making supporting runs as we see from Elneny. Ozil constantly passing and passing instead of trying to create a shooting opportunity for himself for a change. Giroud spending the whole game trying to wrestle defenders instead of losing his marker and making penetrative runs. Wilshere releasing the ball earlier so he doesn’t injury himself. I don’t know why they’re so brain dead and dull. Wenger is partly to blame but I don’t see him as an inflexible manager that tells these guys to stick to the script or else. So I partly agree with the criticism of the players as well.

Either they're a bunch of fairweather players, the manager can't motivate them or they are drilled and told they have to play this way by Wenger.

Watching Leicester was refreshing for me, their players showed so much desire to win and were so well organised and worked so hard, something we never see from our lot. We've had to watch teams with a lack of genuine desire to succeed for years now, you never really see us fighting for every ball, closing down players or making it hard for the opposition, our players are like drones taught to play one way who don't seem to be able to use their brains to adapt to different situations.

[Power n Glory]

Either they're a bunch of fairweather players, the manager can't motivate them or they are drilled and told they have to play this way by Wenger.

Watching Leicester was refreshing for me, their players showed so much desire to win and were so well organised and worked so hard, something we never see from our lot. We've had to watch teams with a lack of genuine desire to succeed for years now, you never really see us fighting for every ball, closing down players or making it hard for the opposition, our players are like drones taught to play one way who don't seem to be able to use their brains to adapt to different situations.

Probably all of the above. The few players we have that try to make something happen will leave. The ones that are clearly struggling will plod along until we're forced to sell.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hard to muster enthusiasm for any of this. What's most alarming is how the freshness Iwobi and ElNeny initially brought to the team has vanished. They are now both playing like Wenger players, in other words they are half as effective as before and suddenly they are making the same sort of mistakes as the rest of the team. The contributions they were making that got you out of your seat in appreciation, a rare commodity at Arsenal these days, are on the wane.

Oxlade Chamberlain, I thought he'd go on to be the brightest young talent in the league. Wengerised.

Young Callum Chambers looked excellent when he first arrive. Then he was switched around the place, used in a random fashion and his game has gone the way of the rest. That nonsense about him being a holding midfielder, the same shit Wenger was spouting about Chamberlain. Lunacy of course but par for our particular course. Wengerised.

Campbell. Maybe he's better off dropped. At least he hasn't been assimilated yet and might still have a career in a more football oriented environment. Resisted Wengerisation. Dropped.

Cech. A great keeper of course but I'd have expected so much more input from him over the course of the season. I anticipated him being a massive presence both on the pitch and off. But no signs of it. It's not how it works at Arsenal. Here we have one leader, one ego, one idea, one law. Cech has too much experience under his belt and has won too much, he'll be immune to Wengerisation. All those trophies will be like a vaccine. But we've not extracted all we can from him. He's wasted. Like Ozil, like Alexis.

Walcott. The most Wengerised player of the bunch. You can keep going. One reality emerges. Wenger ruins players unless the player has enough character and ambition to resist. It's about time Wenger was pulled up on his record and some hard questions asked. How much failure can be accepted without serious questions? There's still this myth going around that Wenger is the ideal man to shape a young career. Well where's the evidence? Surely there should be some evidence?

Relating this to the summer transfers, unless we are planning to sign those massive characters who can bring enough individually to overcome the handicap they'll have to suffer with Wenger as a manager, does it really matter who we sign? We all know what will happen to anyone who comes here after a few months under Wenger's (ahem) expert tutelage. Wenger's not changing his system so that's the system anyone who comes here will be forced into, effectively killing their game in the process.

Maybe it's just better to sign nobody and wait this out.

Meanwhile rumours going around of an Alexis/ Ibrahimovic swap deal. I don't see it. Ibra would be way too hot for Wenger to handle, he wouldn't want him within a mile of the place. I mostly mention it because, as expected, the rumours are gathering pace in relation to the winners we have in the squad, Ozil and Alexis. Of course they aren't going to stay here, why would they? The unnatural shit going on at this club isn't part of their nature. They win shit. They need to be at clubs that also want to win. We all saw Wenger celebrating his latest 4th place trophy triumph. Ozil saw it, Alexis saw it, the players across Europe contemplating Arsenal as a destination saw it.

Not much to get enthusiastic about.

[Niall_Quinn]

Either they're a bunch of fairweather players, the manager can't motivate them or they are drilled and told they have to play this way by Wenger.

Watching Leicester was refreshing for me, their players showed so much desire to win and were so well organised and worked so hard, something we never see from our lot. We've had to watch teams with a lack of genuine desire to succeed for years now, you never really see us fighting for every ball, closing down players or making it hard for the opposition, our players are like drones taught to play one way who don't seem to be able to use their brains to adapt to different situations.

It's Wenger. How can there be any doubt? 12 years of this. Different players, makes no difference. It's Wenger. Wenger turns good players into shit players. That's what all the evidence tells us.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The frustrating thing is that it's not even universally true, there are games where we are well organised, attack with verve and desire but the problem is they are few and far between.

Games like Man United, Man City, Bayern Munich, Leicester away, Olympiakos away etc show we are capable of both decent and effective football.

Even at White Hart Lane we put in a good performance and did well to nullify Spurs' pressing game until Coquelin stupidly got himself sent off

But there are too many games where we look like we are going through the motions and just don't care.

[Power n Glory]

Hard to muster enthusiasm for any of this. What's most alarming is how the freshness Iwobi and ElNeny initially brought to the team has vanished. They are now both playing like Wenger players, in other words they are half as effective as before and suddenly they are making the same sort of mistakes as the rest of the team. The contributions they were making that got you out of your seat in appreciation, a rare commodity at Arsenal these days, are on the wane.

Oxlade Chamberlain, I thought he'd go on to be the brightest young talent in the league. Wengerised.

Young Callum Chambers looked excellent when he first arrive. Then he was switched around the place, used in a random fashion and his game has gone the way of the rest. That nonsense about him being a holding midfielder, the same shit Wenger was spouting about Chamberlain. Lunacy of course but par for our particular course. Wengerised.

Campbell. Maybe he's better off dropped. At least he hasn't been assimilated yet and might still have a career in a more football oriented environment. Resisted Wengerisation. Dropped.

Cech. A great keeper of course but I'd have expected so much more input from him over the course of the season. I anticipated him being a massive presence both on the pitch and off. But no signs of it. It's not how it works at Arsenal. Here we have one leader, one ego, one idea, one law. Cech has too much experience under his belt and has won too much, he'll be immune to Wengerisation. All those trophies will be like a vaccine. But we've not extracted all we can from him. He's wasted. Like Ozil, like Alexis.

Walcott. The most Wengerised player of the bunch. You can keep going. One reality emerges. Wenger ruins players unless the player has enough character and ambition to resist. It's about time Wenger was pulled up on his record and some hard questions asked. How much failure can be accepted without serious questions? There's still this myth going around that Wenger is the ideal man to shape a young career. Well where's the evidence? Surely there should be some evidence?

Relating this to the summer transfers, unless we are planning to sign those massive characters who can bring enough individually to overcome the handicap they'll have to suffer with Wenger as a manager, does it really matter who we sign? We all know what will happen to anyone who comes here after a few months under Wenger's (ahem) expert tutelage. Wenger's not changing his system so that's the system anyone who comes here will be forced into, effectively killing their game in the process.

Maybe it's just better to sign nobody and wait this out.

Meanwhile rumours going around of an Alexis/ Ibrahimovic swap deal. I don't see it. Ibra would be way too hot for Wenger to handle, he wouldn't want him within a mile of the place. I mostly mention it because, as expected, the rumours are gathering pace in relation to the winners we have in the squad, Ozil and Alexis. Of course they aren't going to stay here, why would they? The unnatural shit going on at this club isn't part of their nature. They win shit. They need to be at clubs that also want to win. We all saw Wenger celebrating his latest 4th place trophy triumph. Ozil saw it, Alexis saw it, the players across Europe contemplating Arsenal as a destination saw it.

Not much to get enthusiastic about.

I agree. I heard Iwobi and Elneny had terrible games against City. I hope Iwobi doesn't follow tradition. Most of these players have the raw ingredients to succeed but they seem to hit a glass ceiling very early. I forgot about poor Chambers. He'll end up like Jenkinson.