Match Reaction - Farmer Giles and the Gang 1-1 Arsenal

[Letters]

About the fact that there are much better managers than wenger. Unless you agree that there are quite a few better managers than AW.. then we are all in agreement.

If by 'quite a few' you mean 5 or 6 as you said above then yeah, maybe, but as a percentage of football managers even at the top level that isn't that high. I don't really agree about 'much' or 'way' better but that's such a subjective and impossible to quantify statement that it's not something worth debating. Is Wenger the best manager ever? No. Could we do better? Maybe, but not as easily as some people think, some of the names bandied about on here in the last few yeas are laughable. Is he as incompetent as some on here make out? Obviously not.

[Kano]

That's the nature of any business. The owners/producer provides the funds and facilities, the rest is in the managers hands. From football to Hollywood....I don't think we'll get away from the typical commercial model. The drive and motivation to be the best or produce the best should come from the manager. Film industry may not be the best example, but there are plenty of stories where a director has a very small buget but works a minor miracle to get the very best performance from what he has and wins. Or even on the other scale where directors walk off set because the producer wants to compromise the art and vision of the director.

Just thinking of Arsenal's situation, if the Board only care about turning a profit and keeping things ticking, it would be near impossible to find someone like Wenger. No top flight manager would settle or be satisfied with CL spots and the odd domestic trophy. They'd have to shoot lower and give someone young the opportunity or someone totally unqualified like a Moyes. But even in those scenarios, I can't see either type being satisfied with such small gains for long. They's soon have the taste and hunger for success. Most managers do. I just don't know why Wenger hasn't got it or why he has tolerated the lack of success. Well, that's a lie. With the way he justifies his record, I think he's defined his own terms of what success means and is quite decisional. That's the only way I can explain. I just can't see another manager following this pattern regardless of who the Board appoint.

Well of course, I don't need a 101 about that. The drive to be the best comes from the absolute top of the club, just like any CEO or MD given the autonomy to shape a company's direction. They employ the head of departments that get them the results the board demand. But fans need to realise there is no utopia to be found here. Just one crook after the other running our club from here on in. Then it comes down to what you are willing to ignore for self satisfaction as a fan because we're all invested for our own selfish reasons primarily. Stick with our current lot and be teased by success or owned by a cunt who turns us into their toy. That's where we are for good now and both sides require fans to swallow down a lot of bullshit they hadn't bargained for.

[Power n Glory]

Well of course, I don't need a 101 about that. The drive to be the best comes from the absolute top of the club, just like any CEO or MD given the autonomy to shape a company's direction. They employ the head of departments that get them the results the board demand. But fans need to realise there is no utopia to be found here. Just one crook after the other running our club from here on in. Then it comes down to what you are willing to ignore for self satisfaction as a fan because we're all invested for our own selfish reasons primarily. Stick with our current lot and be teased by success or owned by a cunt who turns us into their toy. That's where we are for good now and both sides require fans to swallow down a lot of bullshit they hadn't bargained for.

I’m not sure you understand. If you look at Dortmund when under Klopp or Atletico Madrid. Do you think the drive to be the best came from the Board? Did they appoint those managers and demand the league be wrestled away from the mega rich Real Madrid, Barca or Bayern? Bearing in mind they didn’t have the budget to compete on those terms. Going even further back to when we appointed Wenger, was the demand put on him to win the league from Man Utd, or did we just spot a talented manager with potential?

I don’t think anyone here really cares about the ownership of the club anymore. We have two crooked billionaires on the Board anyway and it’s been accepted when before most fans wanted us to stay British owned. I think most fans let go of a utopia a long time ago. The American is taking money out of club and Jabba has a sketchy past like the rest of the oil baron owners. It’s all been accepted already.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Is Usmanov on the Board now?

[selassie]

The top managers are self motivated so no worries about that. There is no way. Klopp, Ancellotti,Guardiola or Simeone would come to Arsenal and simply pass the time by doing the minimum possible. Most would resign immediately hearing the words " top 4 trophy". Its a shame really as many of us though we were heading into a new era when Kroenke took over. In hindsight, we would have fared better under the fat geezer from Uzbek.

To my mind, Arsene is not under any instructions not to spend. He simply prefers not to do it. It is his get out of jail card every season we fail again.

[Power n Glory]

Is Usmanov on the Board now?

Correction. He's one of the owners.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Cheers - thought I must have missed something as nothing these days surprises me on how the Club is run.

[IBK]

Hand on heart can you name an owner that gives a shit about football in the top flight in any country? I'm no defender of our owners but I know you are realistic enough to realise that any current or future owner of our club is going to have a crooked vision. Let's look to a future beyond Wenger for a moment, still under the control of our current bent owners. Wouldn't they just look for someone who could deliver something similar? Or, let's envisage that Kroenke and co sell out to someone else. We know that realistically the only other type of owner is going to follow the method set in stone by Chelsea or City. Utopia or the truth exists in the grey areas, in between the lines, a place we rarely get to see revealed because of the imbalance of our nature. Once upon a time we were too small, then we became too big. Wenger or no Kroenke we've long since passed beyond the point of no return. The only thing left to decide is what you want to get back from it.

I think you are missing the point. As I explained earlier, its not a question of owners being genuine enthusiasts - its a question of them having a commercial vision/template that will accept nothing less than success. Generally, football fans really couldn't care less whether success is a by product of a boardroom business model. It is Arsenal fans who have been brainwashed into thinking that 'buying' success is somehow less valid. So we come to the manager, and I genuinely believe that a Wenger in his prime might upset the odds and win things with us despite our business model being to play the percentages and do the absolute minimum in terms of investment to keep us there or thereabouts (let's not get into the fact that there is, and has been NO outside investment in our club - the owner only takes). In this respect a Wenger in his prime would be equivalent to us having a Klopp; Guardiaola or Simeone now. But our manager is tired; inflexible and messianistic - and ultimately content to accept the same as our owners - albeit for different reasons.

[Power n Glory]

Cheers - thought I must have missed something as nothing these days surprises me on how the Club is run.

Is Dein still running with Jabba? Or has he gone Solo?

He introduced both of them to the club. Just wondering if he wants back in.

[Kano]

I think you are missing the point. As I explained earlier, its not a question of owners being genuine enthusiasts - its a question of them having a commercial vision/template that will accept nothing less than success. Generally, football fans really couldn't care less whether success is a by product of a boardroom business model. It is Arsenal fans who have been brainwashed into thinking that 'buying' success is somehow less valid. So we come to the manager, and I genuinely believe that a Wenger in his prime might upset the odds and win things with us despite our business model being to play the percentages and do the absolute minimum in terms of investment to keep us there or thereabouts (let's not get into the fact that there is, and has been NO outside investment in our club - the owner only takes). In this respect a Wenger in his prime would be equivalent to us having a Klopp; Guardiaola or Simeone now. But our manager is tired; inflexible and messianistic - and ultimately content to accept the same as our owners - albeit for different reasons.

No point being missed at all here at all.