Summer Transfer Misery 2017/18

[Power n Glory]

Sigh....ok let me explain this using a different sport

Tennis in terms of the grand slams is largely a closed shop

There isn't always a pecking order as to who gets to the business end of the tournaments

Of the previous 59 grand slam tournaments played between 2003 and now, 47 have been won by Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic.

Of the eight Wimbledon titles Federer won, three times he played Andy Roddick in the final. In 2009 Roddick beat better players than himself to get to the final but he still ultimately came up short.

Murray has reached Five Australian open finals, on four of those occasions he has lost to Djokovic

Nadal between 2005 and 2017 has won ten of thirteen Roland Garros titles, Federer got to three consecutive finals against Nadal and came no closer to beating Nadal during those three games. But as an elite player he was able to profit in 2009 when an out of sorts Nadal was beaten in the fourth round by Robin Soderling who then reached the final only to be trounced by Federer.

Since 2003, Wimbledon has been won by Federer, Nadal, Djokovic and Murray....the four players who have occupied the top four spots in the ATP rankings during that time. Phillipousis, Berdych, Raonic and Cilic have reached the finals in that time.

An unknown Marcos Baghdatis beat many, many higher seeds to reach the Aussie Open final in 2006, he even gave Federer a game for the first set and a bit but Federer triumphed in four seats.

So taking the other sport as an example, it doesn't end up with a structured pecking order. But with the exception of the odd outlier it tends to result in the cream rising to the top. Whether they end up beating each other or some plucky challenger.

Plus with the CL you have had Bayern and Real and Barca feature in the semi finals numerous times From 2009 to now Barca have been in five, Real in seven and Bayern in six

I get what you're trying to say but Tennis is a poor example. It doesn't correlate. For football and the CL, you're arguing that those with the most spending power wins. With Tennis, it's the most talented and skilled, so it doesn't work as an equivalent.

With the CL, I'm waiting to see how Real Madrid react when Ronaldo starts to decline. Money is a major factor in football but as seen with some of the big spenders like City and PSG, it hasn't turned into European dominance. In football, you can accumulate the most expensive players in the world and still fall short. If that weren't the case, we'd have never seen Dortmund, Atletico or Leicester win the league. It's not a regular thing to see one of the smaller teams win but to confidently say we're unlikely to see another team outside of the Spanish clubs or oil rich win....I disagree. This is football. Plus, you're not taking into account youth development at club and international level. Spain's dominance at International level along with Barca producing Spain's golden era players played it's part. You never know which nation will produce the next crop of the world's best.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I can't predict what will happen in the future, what I've said is using the last few years as a barometer. It would be perfectly acceptable for someone like Wenger to accept that he doesn't have a cat in hells chance of winning the champions league even if he were to assume he's a far better coach than he actually is (an assumption I would assume he verily makes)

The tennis example holds up because in terms of talent and reputation, whilst plucky underdogs having the season of their lives may force themselves into a final. Ultimately those with most talent and reputation win. And cash in football helps you acquire talent in order to get a reputation.

I would say the difference between football and tennis is that before long we are more likely to see a changing of the guard in Tennis. There is a younger generation of 19/20 year olds who will in the next year or so start sweeping up the big prizes when the likes of Federer retires, and the likes of Djokovic, Nadal and Murray who are now all 30+ begin to deteriorate.

And whilst there is I'm sure every chance the champions league may see its own Leicester city story, it will always be the outlier to the destiny of football that those who spend the most money will see the most success. Unless the bottom falls out suddenly I don't see how that trend will be reversed. Because it's largely always been true, the difference is just the grotesqueness of the money involved.

[Özim]

Dunno if anyone has seen or posted this yet. https://www.theguardian.com/football...s-angeles-rams

Looks like Kroenke makes a habit of keeping 2nd rate coaches/managers in employment, he really is the worst possible owner for a sports team, trust us to get lumbered with him.

[Niall_Quinn]

Dunno if anyone has seen or posted this yet. https://www.theguardian.com/football...s-angeles-rams

Read most of it in various other articles, but this wraps up the sheer desperation of it all neatly in one place.

Eventually he'll trigger some lone nut who will perform a public service.

[AFC Leveller]

I was thinking earlier how the club's handling of contract renewals has been nothing short of shocking and as we head into 2018, things look a lot bleaker than this summer. Ozil and Alexis will probably leave and not only will they walk for free, we will need to replace them and it won't be cheap. Santi will also probably leave for free and how we've missed him! The likes of Mustafi, Peres and Belerin have all requested to be sold and will probably get their wish. Wilshere, Giroud and Merts have been told they're either up for sale or not part of the future and letting them go means we have to get replacements (again with not much transfer fees). Ramsay will have a year left on his contact (don't rate him myself) and i wouldn't be surprised if a big club came in for him.

Then you have dross like Walcott, Debuchy, Jenkison etc stinking up the place it is looking a lot less rosy.

With an owner who shows 0 intentions on investing or even competing, we are in deep doodoo.

[Power n Glory]

I can't predict what will happen in the future, what I've said is using the last few years as a barometer. It would be perfectly acceptable for someone like Wenger to accept that he doesn't have a cat in hells chance of winning the champions league even if he were to assume he's a far better coach than he actually is (an assumption I would assume he verily makes)

The tennis example holds up because in terms of talent and reputation, whilst plucky underdogs having the season of their lives may force themselves into a final. Ultimately those with most talent and reputation win. And cash in football helps you acquire talent in order to get a reputation.

I would say the difference between football and tennis is that before long we are more likely to see a changing of the guard in Tennis. There is a younger generation of 19/20 year olds who will in the next year or so start sweeping up the big prizes when the likes of Federer retires, and the likes of Djokovic, Nadal and Murray who are now all 30+ begin to deteriorate.

And whilst there is I'm sure every chance the champions league may see its own Leicester city story, it will always be the outlier to the destiny of football that those who spend the most money will see the most success. Unless the bottom falls out suddenly I don't see how that trend will be reversed. Because it's largely always been true, the difference is just the grotesqueness of the money involved.

If that were true, Real Madrid should have won a lot more CL titles considering they didn't win one when they had Ronaldo, Beckham, Owen, Zidane, Figo....It took them 10 years to win the CL again despite always breaking transfer record year after year. Took 10 years for Barca to win it again after the Cruyff era and the same for Bayern. Again, I think we're seeing the Ronaldo/Messi era. I highly doubt Wenger will ever win the CL but can't rule anything out in football considering what we've seen already. Heck, Atletico only lost to Real on a penalty shoot out in the CL final. It's not as if they hadn't beaten Real Madrid that season before either. Thin line.

[Özim]

Apparently we're planning talks with Ramsey, Cech, Welbeck, Nacho and Theo before xmas to avoid another situation like we have now.

Not being funny but we missed the boat, Wellbeck and Theo need to be sold or released and Monreal is already 31 and who knows how long he has left at the top now, likewise Cech at 35 who hasn't been playing too well. Ramsey is younger but just doesn't seem to be delivering.

We don't really need to hold on to most of those players, I'd sell at least 3 of them, to hear we're trying to hold onto these chumps sums up this club, mediocre. Not being funny but Welbeck is really awful, can't shoot for toffee and is never going to improve and Walcott has been here 11 years now and it's really not worked out, why are we still holding onto him, this club takes an eternity to learn anything.

We needed to hold onto players like Ox, Sanchez and Ozil not some of the above, clueless club.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If that were true, Real Madrid should have won a lot more CL titles considering they didn't win one when they had Ronaldo, Beckham, Owen, Zidane, Figo....It took them 10 years to win the CL again despite always breaking transfer record year after year. Took 10 years for Barca to win it again after the Cruyff era and the same for Bayern. Again, I think we're seeing the Ronaldo/Messi era. I highly doubt Wenger will ever win the CL but can't rule anything out in football considering what we've seen already. Heck, Atletico only lost to Real on a penalty shoot out in the CL final. It's not as if they hadn't beaten Real Madrid that season before either. Thin line.

In football in general terms of course there is a clear correlation between money spent and success

In La Liga since the start of the century, there have been in fact four ocasions where the title wasn't won by Real Madrid or Barcelona. Deportivo in 2000, Valencia in 2002 and 2004 and Atletico Madrid in 2014

In Italy, Juve far and away have been the dominant team even with the Calciopoli scandal

Ditto Bayern who I believe have won 11 Bundesliga titles since the turn of the century

And yes Real's money and reputation finally told, and that's why they and Barca between them have mopped up two thirds of the last nine Champions league titles.

Will that always be the case? I don't know for definite but the trend is clearly established. Other teams that aren't as big spending or reputation wise may win it but they will tend to be the outlier.

[Power n Glory]

In football in general terms of course there is a clear correlation between money spent and success

In La Liga since the start of the century, there have been in fact four ocasions where the title wasn't won by Real Madrid or Barcelona. Deportivo in 2000, Valencia in 2002 and 2004 and Atletico Madrid in 2014

In Italy, Juve far and away have been the dominant team even with the Calciopoli scandal

Ditto Bayern who I believe have won 11 Bundesliga titles since the turn of the century

And yes Real's money and reputation finally told, and that's why they and Barca between them have mopped up two thirds of the last nine Champions league titles.

Will that always be the case? I don't know for definite but the trend is clearly established. Other teams that aren't as big spending or reputation wise may win it but they will tend to be the outlier.

You're moving the conversation from CL to domestic leagues. Also, you're ignoring the Messi and Ronaldo factor. It's a fierce competition between the two since 2008. We've never seen this in football before. Nearly a decade of two athletes trying to get one up on the other. I think their hunger for success and the marketing money that they generate is partly why Barca and Madrid haven't been able to coast.

[Niall_Quinn]

Apparently we're planning talks with Ramsey, Cech, Welbeck, Nacho and Theo before xmas to avoid another situation like we have now.

Not being funny but we missed the boat, Wellbeck and Theo need to be sold or released and Monreal is already 31 and who knows how long he has left at the top now, likewise Cech at 35 who hasn't been playing too well. Ramsey is younger but just doesn't seem to be delivering.

We don't really need to hold on to most of those players, I'd sell at least 3 of them, to hear we're trying to hold onto these chumps sums up this club, mediocre. Not being funny but Welbeck is really awful, can't shoot for toffee and is never going to improve and Walcott has been here 11 years now and it's really not worked out, why are we still holding onto him, this club takes an eternity to learn anything.

We needed to hold onto players like Ox, Sanchez and Ozil not some of the above, clueless club.

Theo's already on 140k a week. What will the be offering him? 180k? 200k? Why? Crazy.