Wenger Referendum II - And this time it's personal

[Power n Glory]

You said that before. No. No I wouldn't.

If we finish 3rd and win the Cup then there are no books to cook. That's a good season. It's not a great season and we should be pushing the billionaire cheats harder but after our poor start we've done well to get where we are. After our poor start a lot of people were saying (like they do year after year) that we wouldn't finish top 4. Now people are complaining that we're not doing better.

You really are on the WUM. Fans wanted to see us challenge for the title and not be blown out before Christmas. Of course we wanted more.

The Kopp criticism is funny also because it's one really bad season but if it were Wenger in reverse, you'd be giving him credit for saving us from relegation and closing in on a Europe spot.

Honestly, in 2005 after we've dismantled the Invincible squad, arrival of Chelsea and on the verge of a stadium move, you'd call for Wenger to be sacked if he'd have a season like Klopp's having now?

[Globalgunner]

You really are on the WUM. Fans wanted to see us challenge for the title and not be blown out before Christmas. Of course we wanted more.

The Kopp criticism is funny also because it's one really bad season but if it were Wenger in reverse, you'd be giving him credit for saving us from relegation and closing in on a Europe spot.

Honestly, in 2005 after we've dismantled the Invincible squad, arrival of Chelsea and on the verge of a stadium move, you'd call for Wenger to be sacked if he'd have a season like Klopp's having now?

One the previous Wenger thread Letters argued vociferously that more points in a different season meant progress even though it was pointed out that you can have more points but be in a worse position. Now that the points are less this season but position higher he suddenly reverses himself. WUMs tend to forget what they WUMMED about yesterday. Best to ignore.

[Letters]

When did I say anything about progress above?
3rd place and winning the Cup is a good season. Fewer points than last year is a disappointment though.

[Letters]

The Kopp criticism is funny also because it's one really bad season but if it were Wenger in reverse, you'd be giving him credit for saving us from relegation and closing in on a Europe spot.

Now that's the 3rd time you've said that.

No. I. Wouldn't.

Honestly, in 2005 after we've dismantled the Invincible squad, arrival of Chelsea and on the verge of a stadium move, you'd call for Wenger to be sacked if he'd have a season like Klopp's having now?

Yes. I can understand a certain dropping off but a relegation battle after 20 games? Really?

[Power n Glory]

Now that's the 3rd time you've said that.

No. I. Wouldn't.


Yes. I can understand a certain dropping off but a relegation battle after 20 games? Really?

Bollocks!

[Power n Glory]

One the previous Wenger thread Letters argued vociferously that more points in a different season meant progress even though it was pointed out that you can have more points but be in a worse position. Now that the points are less this season but position higher he suddenly reverses himself. WUMs tend to forget what they WUMMED about yesterday. Best to ignore.

Best advice! Guys full of shit!

[Letters]

Bollocks!

Don't ask me then

[Niall_Quinn]

When did I say anything about progress above?
3rd place and winning the Cup is a good season. Fewer points than last year is a disappointment though.

You are isolating the final placing from the events that put us there. Say the chavs had collapsed and finished 2nd? Could you point at the table and say, 2nd, that's a good season? We'll finish 3rd place when we had it in our hands to finish 2nd. So a potentially decent (not great, but decent) finish has become a failure. We almost, nearly, could've finished well but we fell at the major hurdle as usual.

1 point from 6 while the rivals we had under our foot grab 6 from 6, the one point coming courtesy of a deflected fluke or else we'd be looking at the typical perfect fuck up Wenger always manages when the chips are down. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we make it 1 from 12. It would be surprising if the chavs did that, or the gypos, or even Utd. But Arsenal, when 4th is already in the bag? We know we won't be pushing all out, we've already seen that over the last 2 games. 4th secure so park the car and drain the tank. Typical, typical Wenger.

He's the same in the CL. Four wins on the spin? Already qualified? Fine, foot off the gas. lose to some shithouse makeweight and finish second in the group. It's what Wenger does. He can't stand momentum. He doesn't know how to drive harder and harder right up to the line. Barest, barest minimum is his code.

That's why he puts zero effort in on match day. Zero effort. You can predict his formation, his tactics (such as they are). You can predict how he'll react as the game develops. You can even predict his subs to the minute. One size fits all. The quality of the players drags us through but a lack of tactical management will always catch up with the team in the end. You need all elements firing to win a title and right now we have a team that could do it but a dud manager.

It would be impossible to reach these conclusions after a single season. Unfair to do it after two seasons. But 9 or 10 seasons? Nobody is guessing or speculating here - the facts are facts, the evidence is in the bag. 10 attempts at OT to take 3 points, all ending in failure. Lord knows how many attempts against the chavs. These are the clubs we need to be at least splitting the results 50/50 with over the course of the season. We're nowhere near that mark. One win against the gypos and a cup win against Utd, that's what we view as success these days. That's how low our standards have sunk.

Thanks to one guy. The constant.

[Dein-machine]

We can argue all day ( as some seem to ) about our points total & competing against the Billionaires but as Gooners aren't we overlooking the principle that Wenger is all about ie quality, attacking football.
We criticise Mourinho on here for "parking the bus" & negative tactics but he does it because he can - he has the players to do it & he doesn't apologise for it. What we saw yesterday was a manager who's lost his principles of attacking football in order to pub wins or in yesterdays case a draw.
We didn't have a shot on goal in the whole of the 1st half, we basically parked the bus but because we are not trained in fine art of parking the bus, we conceeded - what's that if not negative. Everyone in football knew he would set us up to play the same way as we did at City. There was no surprise for Van Gal who could work all week on what they could do against the obvious 11 that Wenger was going to play.
They put Blind infront of Giroud to nullify our long ball knowing that we would be too defensive to offer any other threat. Get someone close to Sanchez & we are dead in the water.
Second half, he had to take the handbrake of Cazorla, Ramsey & Ozil & we played far more forward - as we are trained to do.
For the past few years we've gone to poor Utd teams at O.T, sat back & shit ourselves, when actually they are the type of team our football is suited to. They won't do a Chelsea or a Swansea, they can't because of the players they have, so quick attacking football with pace & width opens up a very weak defense time & time again.
Where did their goal come from? - Young attacking down the left with a ball to the far post. Did anyone on here not see it coming after 20 minutes or so. Did we not think they were going to use that route with Fellani at the far post, especially without Shrek playing.
How else were they going to score?
What would have happened if Wenger had amazingly played the tactical game & started with Walcott. He hasn't been good lately but his pace would have meant Van Gal having to change his mindset late on Sunday & ask Young to give Roja some cover due to Theo's pace. If we played more offensively, Young would have spent most of the 1st half in his own half. Rambo is ineffective on the right hand side, look at the difference he made coming into the middle & the choices our midfield had when Theo came on.
At the moment we seem to play one half attacking, get a lead & then park the bus, even against shit teams. If we play negatively in the 1st half & go behind he then unlocks the handbrake for us to go & attack. Why not fucking attack all the time, we have the players to do this - we DONT have the players to be negative.

[Dein-machine]

You are isolating the final placing from the events that put us there. Say the chavs had collapsed and finished 2nd? Could you point at the table and say, 2nd, that's a good season? We'll finish 3rd place when we had it in our hands to finish 2nd. So a potentially decent (not great, but decent) finish has become a failure. We almost, nearly, could've finished well but we fell at the major hurdle as usual.

1 point from 6 while the rivals we had under our foot grab 6 from 6, the one point coming courtesy of a deflected fluke or else we'd be looking at the typical perfect fuck up Wenger always manages when the chips are down. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if we make it 1 from 12. It would be surprising if the chavs did that, or the gypos, or even Utd. But Arsenal, when 4th is already in the bag? We know we won't be pushing all out, we've already seen that over the last 2 games. 4th secure so park the car and drain the tank. Typical, typical Wenger.

He's the same in the CL. Four wins on the spin? Already qualified? Fine, foot off the gas. lose to some shithouse makeweight and finish second in the group. It's what Wenger does. He can't stand momentum. He doesn't know how to drive harder and harder right up to the line. Barest, barest minimum is his code.

That's why he puts zero effort in on match day. Zero effort. You can predict his formation, his tactics (such as they are). You can predict how he'll react as the game develops. You can even predict his subs to the minute. One size fits all. The quality of the players drags us through but a lack of tactical management will always catch up with the team in the end. You need all elements firing to win a title and right now we have a team that could do it but a dud manager.

It would be impossible to reach these conclusions after a single season. Unfair to do it after two seasons. But 9 or 10 seasons? Nobody is guessing or speculating here - the facts are facts, the evidence is in the bag. 10 attempts at OT to take 3 points, all ending in failure. Lord knows how many attempts against the chavs. These are the clubs we need to be at least splitting the results 50/50 with over the course of the season. We're nowhere near that mark. One win against the gypos and a cup win against Utd, that's what we view as success these days. That's how low our standards have sunk.

Thanks to one guy. The constant.