Wenger Slaughterhouse

[Letters]

And if you think the relationship between Premiership club and those in the Championship is mutually beneficial, read this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...demy-plan.html

The new EPP and academy system will make it much easier for Premiership clubs to poach young players from all over the country, and will damage clubs in the lower division. Sure, it's not Arsenal just at fault here, it's the whole premiership, but unequal exchange and "exploitation" goes on at all levels, and we can't feel sorry for ourselves when Man City buy our players, as the gap in power between us is much less than the gap between us and the teams from whom we take youngsters.

That article is about something that will happen though which will of course make it harder for smaller clubs.
My discussion with PnG is about the way things have been.

[Joker]

That article is about something that will happen though which will of course make it harder for smaller clubs.
My discussion with PnG is about the way things have been.

And you mention TV money as a reason for the widening inequality. That is a big factor, but we were one of the big 5 that paved the way for the formation of the EPL and breakway from the Football League, and this was motivated by greed, as the 5 clubs (Man Utd, Tottenham, Liverpool, Arsenal and Everton) didn't want to share the TV money with all the clubs in the football league.

The managing director of London Weekend Television (LWT) Greg Dyke met with the representatives of the "big five" football clubs in England in 1990. The meeting was to pave the way for a break away from the Football League. Dyke believed that it would be more lucrative for LWT if only the larger clubs in the country were featured on national television and wanted to establish whether the clubs would be interested in a larger share of television rights money.

The fundamental difference between the old Football League and the breakaway league (what became the Premier League) is that the money in the breakaway league would only be divided between the clubs active in that division whilst it was shared between all Football League clubs in the old First Division.

The five clubs decided it was a good idea and decided to press ahead with it, however the league would have no credibility without the backing of The Football Association and so David Dein of Arsenal F.C. held talks to see whether the FA were receptive to the idea. The FA did not enjoy an amicable relationship with the Football League at the time and considered it as a way to weaken the Football League's position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundat...Premier_League

If the formation of the Premier League opened a cap of worms and was the start of the "Big Bang" liberalisation, our board deserve at least part of the blame. Perhaps if this hadn't happened, clubs like City wouldn't have needed a sugar daddy to compete with the big boys, especially as the original system was more egalitarian.

[Letters]

Obviously the big clubs have no reason to oppose, and every reason to back, developments which will benefit the big clubs.
Because we are one.
If we were complicit in the formation of the PL then yes, we deserve part of the blame for the current state of football.


Somewhat ironic that only 2 of those 'big 5' have ever won the thing since the PL was formed.

[Marc Overmars]

Which is why it is annoying.

Because the players that leave us are established players. And they're only leaving for money.

Players leave the smaller clubs to develop, as well as to increase their wages. Let's face it. Every you player dreams of playing in the premiership.

But it's much more to do with football than it is for the likes of Nasri, RVP et al.

I'm not sure really, the best players whether we like it or not want to win major trophies, to satisfy their egos if anything. That's a footballing reason to move clubs as well.

As Lettuce says, there have always been haves and have nots in football. I don't think there's a moral high ground to be had here, it's just the way the system is. We exploit it when it suits us but we also get butt fucked ourselves.

[LDG]

I'm not sure really, the best players whether we like it or not want to win major trophies, to satisfy their egos if anything. That's a footballing reason to move clubs as well.

As Lettuce says, there have always been haves and have nots in football. I don't think there's a moral high ground to be had here, it's just the way the system is. We exploit it when it suits us but we also get butt fucked ourselves.

But there was a team that could win trophies forming right there in front of them. I mean, look at the side we could have had without anyone leaving:

Schhkjdsb/a

Sagna Kos Verms Clichy

Song

Nasri Cesc

Walcott RVP Arshavin


People talk about ambition, but those players there, should have won us a trophy.

All of them say Wenger is a genius. So it can't be that.

So what is it?

[Power n Glory]

But there was a team that could win trophies forming right there in front of them. I mean, look at the side we could have had without anyone leaving:

Schhkjdsb/a

Sagna Kos Verms Clichy

Song

Nasri Cesc

Walcott RVP Arshavin


People talk about ambition, but those players there, should have won us a trophy.

All of them say Wenger is a genius. So it can't be that.

So what is it?

That team can't defend!

[LDG]

That team can't defend!

Clichy was right to bugger off then.

[Syn]

But there was a team that could win trophies forming right there in front of them. I mean, look at the side we could have had without anyone leaving:

Exactly. That's something I've been saying for a while. From my view, Wenger hasn't suddenly turned from a winning manager to a crap manager. He is visibly frustrated because he's arguing the same thing you are - that if players had been a bit more patient, we'd have become a force right now. 12 years ago he was allowed a bit more time to build strong squads. Good players weren't leaving as quickly not because of the fact that the club was doing well, e.g. Vieira was ready to leave the team at its peak in 2004. But our wages were more competitive with top other clubs at that stage. As soon as Chelsea and, now, Man City got a lot of money, the patience of players to stick around has fallen. I'm not interested in blaming the players for that - or suggesting that money is the only factor in their decision to leave. It's just a trend that cannot be ignored even accounting for a lack of success.

[Özim]

Success isn't as simple as sticking 11 good players on the pitch, there's a lot more to it....including making sure the balance of the team is right and the players can play together, tactics, motivation etc etc

None of Wenger's teams post 2005 have been cohesive enough, defensively often suspect and wasteful up front, he's always focussed far too much on the passing side and the midfield (which has also lacked steel).

Why would players leave to achieve success....well it's simple after seeing him fail to deliver in 7 years it's not hard to see why players don't believe anymore, we've seen the same pattern pretty much every season with no real signs of it changing.

Sure they say Wenger is a great man etc etc and he is to them as we've seen he treats his players unbelievably well, but I think they know that on the pitch he's not quite able to deliver anymore, his ideals are now more important than success and the club won't invest enough on quality players.

[LDG]

Success isn't as simple as sticking 11 good players on the pitch, there's a lot more to it....including making sure the balance of the team is right and the players can play together, tactics, motivation etc etc

None of Wenger's teams post 2005 have been cohesive enough, defensively often suspect and wasteful up front, he's always focussed far too much on the passing side and the midfield (which has also lacked steel).

Why would players leave to achieve success....well it's simple after seeing him fail to deliver in 7 years it's not hard to see why players don't believe anymore, we've seen the same pattern pretty much every season with no real signs of it changing.

Sure they say Wenger is a great man etc etc and he is to them as we've seen he treats his players unbelievably well, but I think they know that on the pitch he's not quite able to deliver anymore, his ideals are now more important than success and the club won't invest enough on quality players.

Without doubt, the manager has made mistakes too. I accept that, and I am angered by that too.

I've always said that some of the youth could have done with quality back-up/experience to help us along.

But I wasn't talking about that.

I was talking about players jumping ship, when it's quite obvious there was a good side forming. I think Syn may have summed it up better than I, but please don't use this as another way to bash the manager. There have been players there, big enough and ugly enough to have repoaid some of the faith (blind in some cases) the manager showed in them. And that is why he is frustrated....

I mean come on. Even you have to admit that, on paper at least, that first 11 is pretty bloody good.