Do you still want Wenger as Arsenal manager?

[Marc Overmars]

If pushed I'd say I want him gone however apart from the very early memories of 95 when I started supporting the club, Wenger basically IS Arsenal to me. So whilst there are many managers out there who are qualified for the job and what not, in the back of my mind there is always going to be an irrational fear of what exactly life would be like post-Wenger. So it's a difficult situation but it's coming to a point now where maybe we need to take a few steps back before we can move forward, because this club is moving nowhere under the current set up and if that means getting rid of Wenger then so be it.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

So basically you say you want him sacked, but you're not actually sure.

So everytime you tell us you think he should be sacked, it's not really true. Your argument makes more sense now, that's fair enough and up to you but you can't keep saying you said you wanted him sacked when actually you're not sure he should be.

Sounds to me like you're behind him and want him to stay.

I'm not entirely sure Letters is contradicting himself. He can still want Wenger to be relieved of his duties but still remain mindful of what he has done for us and the problems that might stay in place whether he is here or not - in the same way the board might eventually not 'want' to sack Wenger but it is something that might be felt a neccessity.

[Özim]

I'm not entirely sure Letters is contradicting himself. He can still want Wenger to be relieved of his duties but still remain mindful of what he has done for us and the problems that might stay in place whether he is here or not - in the same way the board might eventually not 'want' to sack Wenger but it is something that might be felt a neccessity.

But he admits not being sure if he wants him sacked now in his post. This in my eyes makes his "I said I wanted him sacked" posts irrelevant and falls more in line with his arguments recently.

Like I said he's not at fault for everything (Wenger), but the transfers and tactics and coaching are his responsibility.

We sold Cesc and had no one lined-up, we didn't buy defenders (other than a kid) and spent 15 million on a kid (I think he's got potential) who isn't ready at the moment, you can't tell me Arsene isn't to blame...he didn't have to sell Cesc and had he not there would have be no money to keep back, he did so he must be able to spend it for a start.

If wages are a problem, then his policy over overpaying kids to keep everyone in line is down to him.

I don't buy the Wenger's hands are tied theory.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Just skimmed through a few more pages and i see the board being blamed quite a bit rather than Wenger.

They are both as bad as each other.

Also does anyone seriously think Wenger isnt in total control? Really? If he wasnt then he'd walk. You just have to look back to what hes said to whenever hes been linked to the Real Madrid job, a club where the president runs the show and the manager gets the critisism if it goes wrong hence they have had 50 managers in the past 10 seasons or something.

Wenger is totally to blame for the footballing side of things such as on the pitch shit and the buying or to be more accurate the lack of buying players etc

Board is to blame for not putting pressure on Wenger to produce and just sitting back and see the money rolling in from the most expensive tickets around.

You are most probably right there is blame to be shared around but ultimately only one 'side' can influence what is going on. If Wenger doesn't or isn't being made aware what he is doing now isn't good enough then it can only come from the board as they're the ones who can decide whether he goes or not. Given this situation has been allowed to exist for such a relatively long period of time now suggests to me, the board are still comfortable with how things are. They are the ones that need to tell Wenger what's what. And if they can't do that then I am afraid there's an impasse.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

But he admits not being sure if he wants him sacked now in his post. This in my eyes makes his "I said I wanted him sacked" posts irrelevant and falls more in line with his arguments recently.

Like I said he's not at fault for everything (Wenger), but the transfers and tactics and coaching are his responsibility.

We sold Cesc and had no one lined-up, we didn't buy defenders (other than a kid) and spent 15 million on a kid (I think he's got potential) who isn't ready at the moment, you can't tell me Arsene isn't to blame...he didn't have to sell Cesc and had he not there would have be no money to keep back, he did so he must be able to spend it for a start.

If wages are a problem, then his policy over overpaying kids to keep everyone in line is down to him.

I don't buy the Wenger's hands are tied theory.

Being conflicted doesn't mean you don't ultimately decide. In fact you can still make a decision and then be conflicted about it afterwards!

Also, who has said Wenger's hands are tied? You seem to be mistaking criticising the board for allowing this culture to exist for defending Wenger outrightly. I'm fairly sure everyone here has blamed Wenger with something at some point - he is the one that needs to be dictated to; that is supposed to be the board's domain.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yup I've made that point.

If you want someone sacked and believe they should be, you don't then look for all kinds of excuses for the problems.

I agree the board is to blame, but AW has a lot of blame to shoulder too....and definitely has to take a lot of blame on the transfer front.

That's a fair and reasonable assessment which stands a chance of being right in the real world, unlike all this "madman" and "megalomaniac" BS. So if Wenger goes how much will really change? It's inevitable the new coach would have a lot less influence over the board, and if we accept the board is partially to blame for our problems then the upshot of Wenger's removal is what? The cancer will still exist at the heart of the club. I've started to review Wenger's comments this summer from a perspective other than, "Wenger Out!", and I think he's talking to us in the only way he can given undoubted constraints. Now I might be delusional myself but I'm going with my gut instinct and in the end I'm not for the board, I'm not for Wenger, I'm for the club - Arsenal. And it's my belief we have some seriously bad'uns in the boardroom now. Toffs who have already cashed in and shouldn't even be there plus an absent owner who knows fuck all about the club and wouldn't have invested at all if his intention wasn't to get back more than he's put in. Wenger's got much to answer for too, no doubt, but I'd trust him over these Etonian fucks and the American any day.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

That's a fair and reasonable assessment which stands a chance of being right in the real world, unlike all this "madman" and "megalomaniac" BS. So if Wenger goes how much will really change? It's inevitable the new coach would have a lot less influence over the board, and if we accept the board is partially to blame for our problems then the upshot of Wenger's removal is what? The cancer will still exist at the heart of the club. I've started to review Wenger's comments this summer from a perspective other than, "Wenger Out!", and I think he's talking to us in the only way he can given undoubted constraints. Now I might be delusional myself but I'm going with my gut instinct and in the end I'm not for the board, I'm not for Wenger, I'm for the club - Arsenal. And it's my belief we have some seriously bad'uns in the boardroom now. Toffs who have already cashed in and shouldn't even be there plus an absent owner who knows fuck all about the club and wouldn't have invested at all if his intention wasn't to get back more than he's put in. Wenger's got much to answer for too, no doubt, but I'd trust him over these Etonian fucks and the American any day.

This but people seem to think if Wenger goes were going to get some world class manager who will spalash out Millions and Millions on Players.

Nothing much will change if Wenger goes unless this board goes too.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

But he admits not being sure if he wants him sacked now in his post. This in my eyes makes his "I said I wanted him sacked" posts irrelevant and falls more in line with his arguments recently.

Like I said he's not at fault for everything (Wenger), but the transfers and tactics and coaching are his responsibility.

We sold Cesc and had no one lined-up, we didn't buy defenders (other than a kid) and spent 15 million on a kid (I think he's got potential) who isn't ready at the moment, you can't tell me Arsene isn't to blame...he didn't have to sell Cesc and had he not there would have be no money to keep back, he did so he must be able to spend it for a start.

If wages are a problem, then his policy over overpaying kids to keep everyone in line is down to him.I don't buy the Wenger's hands are tied theory.

Problem is you or me don't kow how much he pays the kids, your assuming they get top dolla without any evidence. Are his hands tied that remails to be seen tbh.

If he walked out the club because he was not happy now, he be called a coward and all sorts.

None of us knows what really goes on up at that level and we never will till someone speaks out. Will a new manager change that much with PHW etc still there no way we will get the same thing only diffrence might be the attitude on the pitch might be dffrent.

we would never get a jose or a rikard here though

[Özim]

That's a fair and reasonable assessment which stands a chance of being right in the real world, unlike all this "madman" and "megalomaniac" BS. So if Wenger goes how much will really change? It's inevitable the new coach would have a lot less influence over the board, and if we accept the board is partially to blame for our problems then the upshot of Wenger's removal is what? The cancer will still exist at the heart of the club. I've started to review Wenger's comments this summer from a perspective other than, "Wenger Out!", and I think he's talking to us in the only way he can given undoubted constraints. Now I might be delusional myself but I'm going with my gut instinct and in the end I'm not for the board, I'm not for Wenger, I'm for the club - Arsenal. And it's my belief we have some seriously bad'uns in the boardroom now. Toffs who have already cashed in and shouldn't even be there plus an absent owner who knows fuck all about the club and wouldn't have invested at all if his intention wasn't to get back more than he's put in. Wenger's got much to answer for too, no doubt, but I'd trust him over these Etonian fucks and the American any day.

The board has been a problem for a while IMO, but the only way to hurt these guys is in the pocket, if everyone sits there and takes it why should they change.

Having accepted that the board is a problem we can't ignore the fact Wenger is also a problem, the tactics, the blind faith, the stubborness in all football aspects and the inability to identify and deal with these aspects are just some of the issues.

A new manager would be allowed to spend and build the team in his own image, all managers are or else they're won't sign on the dotted line unless told otherwise when they do sign. Replacing the manager would at least begin to change things, we may have someone who is tactically more astute and able to get the team to play as a better unit (particularly defensively).

I don't see the board being a reason why we should keep Wenger, because clearly he's not delivering on the football side instead choosing excuses for his team defficiencies.

[Özim]

Problem is you or me don't kow how much he pays the kids, your assuming they get top dolla without any evidence. Are his hands tied that remails to be seen tbh.

If he walked out the club because he was not happy now, he be called a coward and all sorts.

None of us knows what really goes on up at that level and we never will till someone speaks out. Will a new manager change that much with PHW etc still there no way we will get the same thing only diffrence might be the attitude on the pitch might be dffrent.

we would never get a jose or a rikard here though

I think we pretty much know they get paid a lot, from Wenger's words and the fact we can't get rid of them now. If you look at the evidence it's pretty clear we pay top dollar, it's one of the reasons we attract so many kids.

A new manager will bring new ideas and as mentioned will be allowed freedom to build a team (tha's what happens when new manager's come in), our style of football, tactics, organisation and balance are all wrong at the moment...this is something the board doesn't control...so this could change.

Who knows who we would get, we're a big club and I'm sure we could get someone decent, we won't be scouring the lower leagues for managers that's for sure, even in the pre-Wenger days, Robson was mentioned a man who had managed England.