Match Reaction vs Bayern Munich (home)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I find it curious how every refutation of my point comes back to Wenger

How many times do I have to say it, the guy is a disaster

There isn't even an argument to be made that he's helping the club financially so even from a business perspective he's holding us back.

But to break it down again, two clubs with billionaire oligarch owners and one with obscene revenue streams

We can be doing better, but competing every season no.....competing full stop will be nice.

[Power n Glory]

I find it curious how every refutation of my point comes back to Wenger

How many times do I have to say it, the guy is a disaster

There isn't even an argument to be made that he's helping the club financially so even from a business perspective he's holding us back.

But to break it down again, two clubs with billionaire oligarch owners and one with obscene revenue streams

We can be doing better, but competing every season no.....competing full stop will be nice.

Who are you talking to? That can't be me.

[Power n Glory]

How much would it have cost us to sign Kante, Gabriel Jesus and Mkhitaryan?

You've avoid this one too. Transfer made this season and plenty of others around the same price tag we could have brought in that would tally up to around £100m.

[Niall_Quinn]

No I'd be wrong if I'd stated that Chelsea had spent that much, but I've said from the outset that they haven't needed to

Has our spending been poor? Of course but I'm not talking about our decision making im talking about our spending power relative to the three clubs I've mentioned.

It doesn't require tea leaf reading. It requires only understanding that tv money has inflated the market and that United, City and Chelsea can outspend us.

The correlation between spending and trophies and the fact that the three clubs spending ability is largely unrestrained doesn't require me to be a mind reader.

That's why we can't compete.

We may not have as much to spend, but we've had plenty enough to build a decent squad of players up to the task. Hell, even Leicester could pull off a title win. A one-off. For sure. But you still can't discount they needed the right players at the right time and in the right frame of mind to get the job done. That's what we are lacking at this club. With our extra resources we should at least be able to do as well as Leicester's one-off, but we haven't managed even that. Truth of it is we should be able to do a lot better. We're not asking for a title win every season, but we're demanding a title challenge every season and that should be the absolute minimum for a club of this stature.

The money is becoming more and more of an excuse and less and less of a valid reason to hide behind. During the stadium move, fair enough, we'd committed our resources elsewhere. But why did we commit those resources at all? Well it's claimed it was to compete at the top level of the game. Yes, things have changed against our favour. Abramovich dumped his cash, Arabs pitched up, the economy tanked. But things have gone in our favour too and we haven't capitalised. Huge amounts of new revenue came into the game and IIRC we have had more of these resources than anyone so far. Maybe that has now changed but last season we topped the charts in match day revenue and TV revenue. We've seen our major rivals in turmoil. Utd dropped out of the top 4. The chavs and gypos have been playing manager merrygoround and slipped to the extent Leicester could sneak in. FFP for a while at least put the brakes on the big spenders and forced them to reconfigure. All these things should have worked for us and helped us bridge the gap but we still ended up trailing double figures behind the champions. It's nowhere near good enough. Not even close. It's consistent incompetence and failure on a grand scale and no amount of excuses explain it away.

If Alexis was on a 5 year contract right now he'd be worth 60 mill. If we had a manager who could utilise Ozil and Ozil was on a contract, he'd be worth 60 mill too. Bellerin would probably go for 60 mill. So it's possible for us to have multiple 60 mill rated players on the books, even if we don't actually spend that amount to get them or if we have to bring them through the ranks. We just don't have a manager who can use these players effectively. We don't have a backroom team that can pin these players down. We don't compete on the field so can't keep these players happy. What's any of it to do with Man Utd's finances?

We have Wenger in the papers today, oh yes, I "approached" the next big name in football. Well why didn't you sign him before he's 60 mill, you arse? Why even approach these players if you don't act? How much would it have taken to prise him away? And if we don't want to go there then get Giroud off the books and buy a ready made solution. There were options out there. All of them passed up because Wenger won't do what he needs to do with the squad. For some reason he continues to think Giroud is a top striker. So we carry Giroud's costs and then can't find the additional to bring in the genuine article. What's any of that to do with Utd's finances?

Wenger can't manage the squad, that's what's really holding us back. That's what's really causing the gap between ourselves and the teams we could indeed be competing with, despite their wealth. Even with Wenger in charge and another shit show of a season unfolding, even then, how far behind the gypos are we? And we're actually ahead of Utd, though maybe not for long. But ask yourself if we could improve with a more focused, more ambitious, better planner at the helm? How could we not? Do we need a billion quid on top to then give this guy what he needs to use what we already have to start bridging the gap? I don't think so. Give him enough cash for the two missing pieces (the striker and the leader in the middle) and we're in business. Maybe we still come up short but I bet it wouldn't be by that laughable 13/ 14 points we always trail in.

The fans aren't asking for millions being dumped every transfer window. They are asking for a competitive squad. If that really is beyond a club of Arsenal's size, if we really don't have the resources available to mount a title challenge well then that's the biggest indictment of Wenger yet. All this time and we have no realistic chance of getting within a sniff of the chavs and gypos? I don't buy it. What I see is a greedy old bastard who own the place and an incompetent and stubborn old fool who runs it. That's why we can't compete. No need to look at other clubs for the answer.

[Globalgunner]

We could be buying 100m players, IF we were a better run club. If we had built on the legend of the invincibles and pursued a business strategy of success bringing finsncial rewards. We could have doubled our sponsorship tab to what RM Barca and Utd are getting. We could have companies sponsoring our toilet roll like United are simply because companies want to be associated with success. Not with teams that are regularly humbled by their opposition and walloped 10-2 in the CL. Instead we went with the vision of a timid manager whose only guiding principle is self preservation. We could have been the club that was sold to us when leaving Highbury. Instead of being Lions staking out territory in the Savannah. We are Circus cats standing on our hinds for titbits

[selassie]

That's right. There's a lot more to it than just the money. There needs to be a long term plan how money is used and it needs to dovetail into building a squad that can compete. Some of the money doesn't go on transfers at all, it goes into spotting, signing and developing the next Harry Kane or Deli Alli. The spuds still haven't won anything, but you can see there's a plan in place for them, following on from a period where they splurged with the Bale money. But the have clearly learned their lessons. Square pegs in square holes, you use what you have to buy or otherwise obtain what you need. Then you get a smart manager to organise the squad and send them out to execute a clearly defined plan.

Our summer window was panic, not planning. And because so many windows before that were similar it has resulted in a giant mess. A lot of money has been spent and we still have the wrong players in the wrong positions looking totally disorganised and without a plan. The defence is a shambles. All this time later is seems we have one guy, Kos, who can actually defend.

What we have needed for many seasons is a quality striker. We've used Alexis to plug that hole short term but now he's off in the summer and a whole bunch of transfer windows later look where we'll be. Back where we started with Bif up front. Even if we had more money I doubt Wenger could use it effectively. He's the problem, not the lack of money.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You've avoid this one too. Transfer made this season and plenty of others around the same price tag we could have brought in that would tally up to around £100m.

Don't know why we didn't sign Mikhytarian, possibly because Wenger thought we had enough attacking midfielders, however is he the quality of an Aubemeyang or a Griezmann who can also play wide? No he's not and they would cost twice as much

By August our priority was a centre back, a defensive midfielder and a striker

When you have a transfer budget that incorporates wages as well as the transfer fee, it's a bit more difficult to say this player is good value player I'll have that. Does that excuse Wenger for dithering and signing Lucas and Mustafi as panic signings no.

Would Kante have joined us over Chelsea, they'd simply be able to outbid us on wages.

Of course when Mahrez and Vardy decide they'd rather stay at Leicester than come to us you know you have a problem.

[Niall_Quinn]

We could be buying 100m players, IF we were a better run club. If we had built on the legend of the invincibles and pursued a business strategy of success bringing finsncial rewards. We could have doubled our sponsorship tab to what RM Barca and Utd are getting. We could have companies sponsoring our toilet roll like United are simply because companies want to be associated with success. Not with teams that are regularly humbled by their opposition and walloped 10-2 in the CL. Instead we went with the vision of a timid manager whose only guiding principle is self preservation. We could have been the club that was sold to us when leaving Highbury. Instead of being Lions staking out territory in the Savannah. We are Circus cats standing on our hinds for titbits

That's right. The sustainability model has killed us. All it has resulted in is the owners having a reliable and predictable asset while the fans end up with a predictably unreliable team. The precise opposite of the promises made prior to the stadium move. The owners and the manager are responsible for this, not Man Utd. Just a little bit more investment during some of those barren transfer windows, just a little bit more willingness from the manager to adapt and show a bit of ambition on the pitch, just a bit more interest from the crappy owner, that might have been enough. As it is, nothing has ever been done to benefit the team on the pitch. All of it has been done to benefit the few. Sustainability has been one giant con. You speculate to accumulate, you don't sit there and say hold, hold, hold. This is the cray thing. These rich bastards could be even richer if they had opted to gamble once.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

That's right. The sustainability model has killed us. .

But realistically it's not going anywhere, it's about working with what money we can spend not money we think we should spend.

Again that money has not been spent well, bloated wage bill considering how many non performers we have in the side.

But i'm prepared to make a bet with anyone here that if Wenger goes this season, the next ten seasons onwards 80% at the minimum of the titles will be won by Chelsea, United or City.

[selassie]

But realistically it's not going anywhere, it's about working with what money we can spend not money we think we should spend.

Again that money has not been spent well, bloated wage bill considering how many non performers we have in the side.

But i'm prepared to make a bet with anyone here that if Wenger goes this season, the next ten seasons onwards 80% at the minimum of the titles will be won by Chelsea, United or City.

You are probably right regarding the probability of the dopers sharing title wins in the future. The thing is I don't think anyone is demanding titles, I think people just want to see us improve, to at least properly challenge for the title once in a while, to not collapse domestically and in europe at the same point in the season every year.

We just need change now, a new approach. We need to see flexibility and a sense of excitement in the way the football team is run. I personally believe an ambitious driven manager can go some way towards giving us that.