"Currants Bw..."

[Mac76]

I have always found it futile trying to explain the self evident realities of political theatre to those who are heavily invested in the tribal nature of it. Blue, Red, my side, your side, good, evil, moral, immoral, lies, truth, etc, etc. Obvious playacting for the purpose of causing division. But many people are fundamentally invested in it, to their cores. It's a lifelong affliction for many. They infect their children with the same and generations pass. Even when their tribe reverses every belief it ever claimed to hold inviolable, they about-turn and invest themselves wholeheartedly in the new gospel.

Gove and Johnson are in charge. Sure they are. That's what is says in the job descriptions and that's how it will be until, suddenly, somebody else is in charge of a system that never changes and always benefits a minority over the majority (which must be an unbroken streak of coincidence I suppose).

So you’re basically saying that, for example, any other government, with any other set of politicians, would be leaving the EU a) at all, b) at such headlong speed and c) at the risk of a disastrous no deal?

BOLLOCKS - it’s the actual particular bunch of cunts who are in charge that are making that happen

Let’s look at the alternative scenario - If a sane Labour leader had been in charge at the last election and won or formed a coalition with the Lib Dems we’d have had another referendum, there is a decent chance there’d have been a remain majority and if so we wouldn’t be leaving

THAT’s the difference particular politicians make

[Niall_Quinn]

So you’re basically saying that, for example, any other government, with any other set of politicians, would be leaving the EU a) at all, b) at such headlong speed and c) at the risk of a disastrous no deal?

BOLLOCKS - it’s the actual particular bunch of cunts who are in charge that are making that happen

Let’s look at the alternative scenario - If a sane Labour leader had been in charge at the last election and won or formed a coalition with the Lib Dems we’d have had another referendum, there is a decent chance there’d have been a remain majority and if so we wouldn’t be leaving

THAT’s the difference particular politicians make

Firstly, I don't know where you get "headlong speed" from. This has dragged on for years. And there's no evidence at all there's a risk in no-deal, which in itself is a misnomer because "no deal" actually means deal, but on different terms to those controlled by the EU, in this case the WTO. So by removing your framing of the question, to answer the question:

There are two major competing economic factions in the western world at present (three if you include the influence of the outlier Russia), promoting competing ideologies (or more accurately, strategies). Globalisation and a move towards governance by (in their mind) benevolent, unelected, undemocratic, multinational bodies (such as the EU), while mainting the illusion of political representation throughout the process. Then there's the traditional, balkanised map of nation states governed by theoretically democratic and elected politicians, in the main - the system most are familiar with due to its longevity.

These politicians are selected and placed into power by competing economic entities, the multinational corporations, the banking system, sufficiently influential individuals and cartels. These entities purchase the political system and run their pre-appointed representatives through the election process in order to achieve their economic objectives while preserving the illusion of political representation for the larger population, to deter dissent and sow the vital seed of division. The revolving door relationship between politicians and large corporations best shows how the buy now, pay later procedure operates.

During the past few decades the globalists have held sway. All political parties have endorsed and delivered globalisation, much to the detriment of millions of people who have paid the social cost of the private profits banked by the controlling minority. The victims of globalisation, sold a raft of lies and now having endured the realities of this global gravy train for the few, were identified by a faction of the ruling class as a means to gain advantage over their competitors by pointing out the obvious inequalities inherent in globalisation and rallying the victims around symbols they had previously identified with, the nation state, cultural identity, religion, greater self-reliance, etc. These are the "nationalists" so despised by the globalists and their politically illiterate foot soldiers.

The "nationalists" (or the red crime syndicate) are much feared by the globalists (the blue crime syndicate) because the former threatens to derail almost every project that has carefully been constructed, under the guise of a series of benefits to mankind (despite the inevitable one way flow of actual benefit). This is why Trump is so vigorously hated, he's the rallying symbol around which the old school crime syndicate has regained control of the most influential regional economy. Previously the globalists have worked diligently on every level to displace the American economy (with its expensive labour force) to their preferred alternative project in China, where the advantages of a slave labour workforce and strict authoritarianism can yield (never before seen in human history) increased profitability.

That's the underlying framework in very brief and simple terms. As to Brexit. That was a rare mistake played out by overconfident globalists. Globalists that hadn't realised, or realised too late, the extent to which citizens from around the world had woken up to the harsh realities of the global marketplace. It was hardly surprising, in hindsight. Years of austerity brought about by a global robbery that had to be conducted in the open finally alerted enough people to the reality of the globalisation project and what it had actually delivered for them - less, or nothing at all. Meanwhile, everything had changed around them, supposedly in terms for the better should they listen to the virtue signalling globalists who spoke of rights and equality and social justice, but in reality in practical terms far worse - no jobs, no stability, enforced cultural change occurring at breakneck speed. The globalists pushed to far too fast, forced into it by their dreadful mismanagement of the global economy and their insatiable greed and mistaken belief the tide they had created could never be reversed.

And so the red side seized its chance and, using the very technology the globalists had created to solidify their own projects, against all the odds defeated the blues in a referendum that was always meant for show and to extract the once and for all consent of the public. Remember Theresa May? David Cameron was the politician selected to deliver this foregone outcome. Every resource of the state and the media was deployed to that end.

And then disaster. The unwashed went and voted the wrong way.

So they selected Theresa May to fix the problem. And instructed Corbyn to reverse his life long position by 180 degrees. And had the Scots pile in with their never ceasing threats of independence, and you know how it went. Again, every asset at their disposal deployed to counter and eradicate the democratic virus that had escaped the lab. They couldn't just rule it null and void, as the EU has done in the past, because by that stage the "nationalists" had solid and tangible support from their allies in the US. The globalists were under attack on two fronts and their usual method of ignoring the people wasn't going to wash on this occasion. Civil unrest would have been a real possibility.

It was too late. The combination of the Trump faction with the disastrous outcome of the Brexit mistake had let the enemy slip into the globalist perimeter and embark on a wrecking spree. All the globalist projects started to go up in flames. Pan-national trade deals (NAFTA), global stitch-up to place yet another tax on the global population (Paris Accord), the mass movement of slave labour work forces, ludicrously one-sided trade policies designed to maximise profits for the corporations operating in China - all burning down.

None of this had anything to do with the flip-flopping politicians rolled out to maintain the illusion of representation during these grand economic struggles. I already told you, Trump was a liberal before he became the opposite.

The "Sir Humphrey" idea you have, but accuse me of having. These are just the grey men that persist between rotating shifts as politicians come and go. The civil servants remain to enact the real business of state, which is always to do the bidding of those who buy the most influence. Anyone who doesn't think it works that way really isn't paying much attention, or looking at the consistent results produced by these political systems.

[Letters]

Booked some theatre tickets via a GroupOn voucher, we were going to see "Magic Goes Wrong" but obviously the performance didn't happen. With other shows we've booked I've heard from the people we booked with about the performances being delayed. I'd heard nothing about this one and I'd actually forgotten it was a GroupOn deal. Checked my emails last night and so had a chat with one of their customer support people.

Me: "Hi, this performance never happened. So what happens now?"
Him: "The voucher is already redeemed"
Me: "Yes, but the performance didn't happen so can I rebook when the theatres reopen?"
Him: "The voucher has expired so we wouldn't be able to process a refund"
Me: "I don't want a refund if I can rebook for another performance"
Him: "There is no option to rebook"
Me: "Right, so can I get a refund?"
Him: "No, because the voucher has expired".
Me: "Right, so I've paid for a show which didn't happen, you have no option to re-book and you're not going to give me my money back?"

End scene.

He said he'd refer it to his manager and they'd get back to me. These fuckers had better give me a refund or...I may be forced to tut really quite loudly.

[GP]

Call your Credit Card and get them to do a charge back.

[Letters]

Call your Credit Card and get them to do a charge back.

Joke's on you, I didn't pay by credit card



I don't really believe in credit cards as I like to know where I am, so I use Debit Card, but that does mean you're not as protected when it comes to stuff like this. Meh, we'll see. I've generally found GroupOn pretty good so I suspect they will refund me. We'll see.

[Niall_Quinn]

Booked some theatre tickets via a GroupOn voucher, we were going to see "Magic Goes Wrong" but obviously the performance didn't happen. With other shows we've booked I've heard from the people we booked with about the performances being delayed. I'd heard nothing about this one and I'd actually forgotten it was a GroupOn deal. Checked my emails last night and so had a chat with one of their customer support people.

Me: "Hi, this performance never happened. So what happens now?"
Him: "The voucher is already redeemed"
Me: "Yes, but the performance didn't happen so can I rebook when the theatres reopen?"
Him: "The voucher has expired so we wouldn't be able to process a refund"
Me: "I don't want a refund if I can rebook for another performance"
Him: "There is no option to rebook"
Me: "Right, so can I get a refund?"
Him: "No, because the voucher has expired".
Me: "Right, so I've paid for a show which didn't happen, you have no option to re-book and you're not going to give me my money back?"

End scene.

He said he'd refer it to his manager and they'd get back to me. These fuckers had better give me a refund or...I may be forced to tut really quite loudly.

Pretend you have suffered mental distress. Tell them you are a single lesbian feminist in the process of having a sex change and you are relying on this refund to pay for the operation. Tell them you work for the NHS.

If all that fails, tell them you know where they live and you'll be around later tonight to extract all their teeth so you can get the refund from the tooth fairy.

[Ollie the Optimist]

Joke's on you, I didn't pay by credit card



I don't really believe in credit cards as I like to know where I am, so I use Debit Card, but that does mean you're not as protected when it comes to stuff like this. Meh, we'll see. I've generally found GroupOn pretty good so I suspect they will refund me. We'll see.

Can’t you take out a credit card and just pay it off in full every month? That way you get the protections from credit cards but no interest payments.

[Letters]

Can’t you take out a credit card and just pay it off in full every month? That way you get the protections from credit cards but no interest payments.

I guess I can. But I like the fact that with a Debit card you check your account and you know where you are. You don't have to remember that you don't have as much money as you think you do because you've spent 'x' on the Credit Card.
But I am thinking I should get one because a few things like this have happened recently and it would afford more protection.

That said, if this goes on much longer we'll probably be back to a barter system anyway so it'll all be a bit moot.

[Mac76]

Joke's on you, I didn't pay by credit card



I don't really believe in credit cards as I like to know where I am, so I use Debit Card, but that does mean you're not as protected when it comes to stuff like this. Meh, we'll see. I've generally found GroupOn pretty good so I suspect they will refund me. We'll see.

you can still 'know where you are' with a credit card.

i have one, for the protections you refer to, and it takes the total of what i've paid with it out of my bank account by DD once per month - i have never paid a penny of interest

as long as you keep track of what's in your current account there's no difference, and you'd have to do that whichever type of card you;re using

[Niall_Quinn]

Can’t you take out a credit card and just pay it off in full every month? That way you get the protections from credit cards but no interest payments.

But what happens if you accidentally max out all your credit cards in the first month and can't afford to pay them back? Bang goes your clever plan! Not so clever after all.