Good Bye RVP!

[Power n Glory]

Dunno about Ach, but do you think he'd have been so keen on going 'home' had Barca been mid table in La Liga? I can't get over a player so eager to leave the team he captained that he contributed to his own transfer fee. Fabregas put in almost as many disinterested performances for us over his last 2 seasons as Adebayor did in his - culminating in his pass that put Barca through in the CL ahead of us. He clearly could have told his mates to respect his wishes and not agitate for Barcelona in the press had he wanted to.

Agree with you about him refusiing to play, though...another Ach fantasy.

I don't agree with the disinterested performance thing. There were certain games where he came off the bench and saved our bacon and you could see he wanted the victory. With Barca lurking in the background, it puts a whole new twist on his performance. A few bad games and it always boils down to the player not trying if he's linked with another club.

If RVP is linked with another club after Christmas and we start having a run of bad games because he's out injured and then he comes back but doesn't look like the same player we're seeing now, would that be down to him being distracted and wanting to leave? Or would it be down to him just coming back from injury and the team isn't playing well, so he's not getting great service either? I hope that doesn't happen with RVP, but that's what happened with Cesc last year.

It makes no sense for him to play crap on purpose if he's desperate to win a trophy even if he knows he's leaving. Why look to leave on such a low? Also, Cesc lost his ability to influence a game as soon as Wenger shifted him to playing further up the field in a more attacking midfield role. When he played deeper, he'd move all over the pitch popping off passes then moving off again into space. He wasn't touching the ball as much as he used to.

[BOBN]

Also, Cesc lost his ability to influence a game as soon as Wenger shifted him to playing further up the field in a more attacking midfield role. When he played deeper, he'd move all over the pitch popping off passes then moving off again into space. He wasn't touching the ball as much as he used to.

people act like wenger did that for a laugh. We were getting beat left right and centre that early season (remember giovannis winner for hull at the emirates?). He gets injured then suddenly we put together a long unbeaten run with song-denilson im the middle.

That was when wenger realised fabregas was a liability in central midfield and had to find a new position for him when he returned.

Painfully overrated player.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

people act like wenger did that for a laugh. We were getting beat left right and centre that early season (remember giovannis winner for hull at the emirates?). He gets injured then suddenly we put together a long unbeaten run with song-denilson im the middle.

That was when wenger realised fabregas was a liability in central midfield and had to find a new position for him when he returned.

Painfully overrated player.

Think he sensed how much cesc unbalanced the team rather then anything else tbh.

[GP]

Painfully overrated player.

Sadly that isn't true. He's a great player.

[BOBN]

No he never what rubbish, if wenger rested him thats diffrent.

Wenger practically admitted it, to anyone willing to engage their brain

[Kano]

I don't agree with the disinterested performance thing. There were certain games where he came off the bench and saved our bacon and you could see he wanted the victory. With Barca lurking in the background, it puts a whole new twist on his performance. A few bad games and it always boils down to the player not trying if he's linked with another club.

If RVP is linked with another club after Christmas and we start having a run of bad games because he's out injured and then he comes back but doesn't look like the same player we're seeing now, would that be down to him being distracted and wanting to leave? Or would it be down to him just coming back from injury and the team isn't playing well, so he's not getting great service either? I hope that doesn't happen with RVP, but that's what happened with Cesc last year.

It makes no sense for him to play crap on purpose if he's desperate to win a trophy even if he knows he's leaving. Why look to leave on such a low? Also, Cesc lost his ability to influence a game as soon as Wenger shifted him to playing further up the field in a more attacking midfield role. When he played deeper, he'd move all over the pitch popping off passes then moving off again into space. He wasn't touching the ball as much as he used to.

agree with all of that. games against villa and his reaction away to stoke should answer any questions.

there was no other way for his transfer to take place apart from it becoming very messy in the end, the barca players alone made it that. he had his part to play and in his eagerness to get into the barca team and build a rep there for years to come, he made mistakes in how he handled it too.

to pinpoint cesc's lack of contribution in the past couple of years only ignores similar performances all round at times; firstly hardly anyone performs every week for their team and when the chips are down, it will affect the spirit of the team. that last part comes down to the management, so i'm not sure there is much of a case to answer for cesc.

[Power n Glory]

people act like wenger did that for a laugh. We were getting beat left right and centre that early season (remember giovannis winner for hull at the emirates?). He gets injured then suddenly we put together a long unbeaten run with song-denilson im the middle.

That was when wenger realised fabregas was a liability in central midfield and had to find a new position for him when he returned.

Painfully overrated player.

Wenger wasn't playing Song as defensive midfielder that year. Denilson played more games than any other player that year, including Almunia. We were leaking goals because Wenger had the wrong balance in the midfield, plus we had a terrible goalkeeper, wingback and two CB's under 6 foot that aren't natural centre backs or know how to command a backline. If he had played Song, Cesc and Nasri/Diaby in the middle, we'd have probably had the right balance in the middle, but even when we had more defensive minded players, we still lost silly games. Start of the season, Wenger wasn't playing Song and nobody on here even rated him. I think we were playing 4-4-2 for that Hull game with Cesc and Denilson in the middle. What sort of craziness is that?

Already this season, without Cesc, we've lost 8-2 and took a beating at Blackburn as well. It goes beyond one player. Wenger had the balance all wrong. We lost many games with Cesc in the squad, but we lost games without him as well, plus picked up a heap of draws because we looked so toothless.

[BOBN]

I think we were playing 4-4-2 for that Hull game with Cesc and Denilson in the middle. What sort of craziness is that?

whats crazy about it? 2 so-called central midfielders playing in central midfield. football is a simple game.

if cesc was a top central midfield player, a leader, it would have worked. a proper CM would have taliored, restricted, his game slightly to help usher in the inexperienced kid, even if temporarily as he found his feet. a bit like what vieira did for him.

instead this plum was too thick to realise he couldnt wander about all over the place playing his typically defensively lazy game.

easily the worst and most selfish captain in arsenal history.

[Power n Glory]

whats crazy about it? 2 so-called central midfielders playing in central midfield. football is a simple game.

if cesc was a top central midfield player, a leader, it would have worked. a proper CM would have taliored, restricted, his game slightly to help usher in the inexperienced kid, even if temporarily as he found his feet. a bit like what vieira did for him.

instead this plum was too thick to realise he couldnt wander about all over the place playing his typically defensively lazy game.

easily the worst and most selfish captain in arsenal history.

I wish it was that simple but it’s not. For starters, Cesc and Denilson are like 5’8”, neither are strong defensive players and up against bigger players, they can’t compete physically. You can’t compare Cesc to Vieria because he’s not built like him and can’t play as a defensive midfielder. Telling Cesc to hold back and protect Denilson wouldn’t work and it’s like telling Lampard to stop making runs into the box and going for goals. It curbs what he’s really good at. Why do you think the England set up with Lampard and Gerrard doesn’t work in a 4-4-2?

Do you think Barca could get away with playing 4-4-2 with Xavi and Iniesta in the middle? Look at our current club. Would you go into our next few games playing a 4-4-2 with Ramsey and Arteta in the middle? Or Ramsey and Rosicky? Do you think we could play like that against Man City and not get complete ass whooping? None of those players have the legs, work rate or physical presence to cope. You’d have to play someone like Song alongside them because he’s more defensive. We didn’t have the right balance back then and I can’t see any other manager trying to play Cesc and Denilson in a 4-4-2. Check out Zonal Marking and look what all the top teams are doing and how they are set up. You won’t find many 4-4-2 set ups where little guys like Denilson and Cesc are playing in the middle. They’re shrimps and pretty weak. Cesc maybe world class but makes no sense to curb what he’s good at to focus on a weak area. What sort of management is that? If we went out and bought Sneijder and Wenger wanted to play him in a 4-4-2 alongside Ramsey, I’d say that’s the wrong balance. That’s not the players fault.

[BOBN]

I wish it was that simple but it’s not. For starters, Cesc and Denilson are like 5’8”, neither are strong defensive players and up against bigger players, they can’t compete physically. You can’t compare Cesc to Vieria because he’s not built like him and can’t play as a defensive midfielder.

you do know cesc was a defensive midfielder for barca youth yes? his hero is guardiola remember.

only season cesc looked competent in there was when he had flamini doing the work for 2 men (how tall was flamini btw? how tall was makalele?)

a central midfielder who cant do his fair share of defensive work or "compete physically" is useless to me, thats part of the reason im saying hes overrated, duh! theres never been a great CM who couldnt and there never will be

Do you think Barca could get away with playing 4-4-2 with Xavi and Iniesta in the middle? Look at our current club. Would you go into our next few games playing a 4-4-2 with Ramsey and Arteta in the middle? Or Ramsey and Rosicky? Do you think we could play like that against Man City and not get complete ass whooping? None of those players have the legs, work rate or physical presence to cope. You’d have to play someone like Song alongside them because he’s more defensive. We didn’t have the right balance back then and I can’t see any other manager trying to play Cesc and Denilson in a 4-4-2. Check out Zonal Marking and look what all the top teams are doing and how they are set up. You won’t find many 4-4-2 set ups where little guys like Denilson and Cesc are playing in the middle. They’re shrimps and pretty weak. Cesc maybe world class but makes no sense to curb what he’s good at to focus on a weak area. What sort of management is that? If we went out and bought Sneijder and Wenger wanted to play him in a 4-4-2 alongside Ramsey, I’d say that’s the wrong balance. That’s not the players fault.

hang on, youre the one complaining about wenger moving him out of his best position and all that rubbish now youre telling me he should be allowed to focus on getting forward?

so let me get this straight, in the hurly-burly premier league you expected our manager to forsake a player who was prepared to graft/add solidarity and allow cesc to clog up valuable space in the engine room of the midfield so they he can spray his shytty little balls about? this is what you expected wenger to continue doing? and people wonder why we never won anything with cesc in the team, lol.

ps. xavi for one is a much harder worker than cesc so yes he could cut it in a midfield 2 with anyone, and hes done so before.