Match Reaction - Arsenal 1-2 Watford - Wenger Out

[Globalgunner]

Of course it isn't.
I think we've all come to the agreement that Wenger is no longer able to push us on but it's an inability, not a lack of interest in finishing no higher than 3rd.
Why wouldn't he want to push on and win the title? Especially this year when it was there for the taking.

I think thats what the journos were asking him, then he got up in a huff. Beats me too

[Globalgunner]

Again I invite you to make that argument to the thousands of fans who go to games week in, week out and tell them they were wrong to want the team to win games.

As I point out again and again and again, we have no leverage over the manager. The only way he does not choose his own departure is if the club enters the same situation Chelsea did under Mourinho.

Do you really want us to fall that hard...do you think that benefits the club?

Do you take this impotency to all other aspects of your life. Do you for instance just vote the same party in everytime because it doent matter anyway. Or do you stop and think what is best for your kids and their kids?.

Wenger relies on people like you to perpetuate his averageness. 10 years and you still havent seen your way clear
Leave the other fans out of it. You tell me what you think YOU should do to change the cycle at Arsenal. watching tripe football by badly coached players is not my cup of tea. Not for life anyway
As they say, Be the change that you want to see.

[Letters]

Zim is an armchair fan. And there's nothing wrong with that, I'm one of those now.
But he is only interested in trophies - the whole nonsense about the "thoroughly enjoyable" 92/93 season shows that. I had a season ticket that year and it was mostly miserable, yes the end was good but a season lasts a long time and most of it was abject.
On the 7th November 1992 we beat Coventry, the end of a good run. We didn't win a league game again until 16th January (P8 W0 D3 L5).
For the rest of the league season, 27 games, we won just 6, drew 9 and lost 12.
Let me just repeat that. We won 6 out of 27 league games. Six! Can you imagine this place if we had that kind of season now?!
It was pathetic, frankly, this was only 2 seasons after we'd been champions, losing only one game. Even the season before we'd finished 4th.
And yet Zim thorougly enjoyed it
Why? Because he didn't have to sit through most of it and we got a couple of trophies at the end of it, somehow.

Now he's so bitter about Wenger though he actually hopes we don't win anything although it's a strange logic because we'll almost certainly finish top 4 anyway, he'll have met the board's target so he'll stay on anyway - why not win the league if we can? Which we can't, obviously.

As for the assertion that I think we're progressing. No, we've stagnated. Many have said Wenger has us in decline. He doesn't. We have neither progressed not declined in the last 10 years, there have been some promising signs but ultimately this season shows that there's been no real progress. I'll admit that the last couple of years I have seen some signs for hope. I've been over those endlessly. This season we needed to push on and win the title - or at least challenge strongly - and we haven't.

[Power n Glory]

This whole debate is a core example of why Wenger staying on is causing damage to the club. We really shouldn't be telling each other to support other clubs or we're the responsible for Wenger staying on. Internet spats aren't bad but I can see this playing out at the stadium. It makes us look bad.

[Kano]

But as Zim pointed out wanting Wenger out and wanting us to win most games are two incompatible concepts. Wengers gambit is simply to win enough games to guarantee 4th place and thus guarantee him a job. Dropping out of the CL and out of contention for excuses is the only way to get rid of the fraud. Wanting that is not inconsistent with wanting the best for the club long term.
Its pretty obvious to me anyway.

Wenger staying top four to keep his job is a fallacy, a niave stance to take considering the owner of this club. With the TV money coming in, Chumps League money is small fry, why else do you think clubs are looking beyond the next TV deal at a Euro League? Our CL earnings last year of £20m is a fifth of what the club finishing bottom of next seasons PL will earn. The owner isn't in this industry to win championships remember.

[selassie]

Of course it isn't.
I think we've all come to the agreement that Wenger is no longer able to push us on but it's an inability, not a lack of interest in finishing no higher than 3rd.
Why wouldn't he want to push on and win the title? Especially this year when it was there for the taking.

Publicly Wenger gives us the belief that he's in it to win it and for obvious reasons but privately top 4 security is his remit, it's his safety net and the reason to why he makes comments such as "my boss is happy with my performance" blah blah.

Of course Wenger no doubt likes winning, everyone likes to win but I don't think he's that bothered if he doesn't win, why would he be? His boss has come out this week and confirmed that he doesn't care for trophies, why should Wenger?

Wenger clearly isn't doing enough for someone who has the interest of winning at heart, he would be doing a hell of a lot more if he really cared and I'm not just talking about his transfer policy.

[Letters]

Top 4 is the board's minimum expectation of him, he obviously is bothered if he doesn't win - just look at the way he sulks when we don't.
I saw an interview with Dein where he said that they have dinner after every home game unless we lost because if that has happened he's no company.
He's clearly bothered, it's a lack of ability to push us any further, not an unwillingness to.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

This whole debate is a core example of why Wenger staying on is causing damage to the club. We really shouldn't be telling each other to support other clubs or we're the responsible for Wenger staying on. Internet spats aren't bad but I can see this playing out at the stadium. It makes us look bad.

Like I say yesterday the only people that have altercations in public are the people who will do so with almost any justification no matter how scant.

People can tell me I'm responsible for Wenger staying if they want, the burden of proof is all on them.

I believe by definition that wanting the team to lose defies the definition of supporter.

[Letters]

Wenger staying top four to keep his job is a fallacy.

I'd say it's a theory more than a fallacy. He's never been sacked, he's always kept us in the top 4. I think if we'd dropped into mid-table (as many predicted we would) he'd have gone, but given that we never have it's impossible to know for sure.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Publicly Wenger gives us the belief that he's in it to win it and for obvious reasons but privately top 4 security is his remit, it's his safety net and the reason to why he makes comments such as "my boss is happy with my performance" blah blah.

Of course Wenger no doubt likes winning, everyone likes to win but I don't think he's that bothered if he doesn't win, why would he be? His boss has come out this week and confirmed that he doesn't care for trophies, why should Wenger?

Wenger clearly isn't doing enough for someone who has the interest of winning at heart, he would be doing a hell of a lot more if he really cared and I'm not just talking about his transfer policy.

You make that assertion because of frustration at Wengers decision making which is astonishingly counter intuitive

Questioning his ability is one thing, it's abundantly clear that he doesn't have what it takes....but there is no evidence to suppose that someone who has won three league titles has no desire to win anything else.

Do you look at Wenger as someone fixated with money, because If he was it stands to reason he could have left Arsenal in 2004 for Real Madrid and added an extra decimal to his wages.