Winter Transfer Despair and Bafflement.

[Cripps]

Yeah. Coming from you it's impossible to understand.

If the goal is to get Wenger out then where's the advantage in monitoring this place to ensure anything you consider beyond your self adjudicated boundary is picked up and addressed? Isn't that the typical behaviour of a supporter, rather than a critic? You could just leave stuff alone. You could express your own opinion. Or you could engage in any of the other debates that crop up. Transfer dealings. The power struggle behind the scenes. Whatever.

Instead, you WUM. You're oh so coy and reasonable when challenged. But have a look back over the last few weeks and what will you see? Digs at other posters about average squads and awful managers. You don't attack the man you want sacked, but you do attack those who want to see him sacked.

Can you see why I have a problem understanding and believing your claims?

He's trying to save face

He lost the war and was ultimately wrong about Wenger, but he continues to argue to make Wenger seem better than he is, to justify his own past

Letters is a shade of his former self tbh

At least he makes the day go quicker

Lettuce

[GP]

It's constancy of opinion which means we still have a Flat Earth Society.

Hey, don't make fun of the FES. We have members all around the globe.

[Letters]

Nobody is backdating their views. Over the last decade there was a point where Wenger COULD HAVE turned it around. He passed it up and carried on with his usual old shit. Which resulted in what? No title challenge. Not even close. Not even when everyone else imploded except Leicester City, a club with a fraction of the resources at Wenger's disposal. When literally everything went his way he still fucked it up. Some people, myself included, gave him the benefit of the doubt at the time. One last chance to prove he wasn't totally out of his depth. And he blew it, leaving no doubt whatsoever. He's a fraud, a has-been. Over 10 years without a sniff and, unbelievably, his European record is getting worse. 10-2 against Bayern? Twice? Seriously?

There's no debate to be had. His record speaks for itself.

Surprisingly, I find myself agreeing with much of that.

But the revisionism and hyperbole I'm arguing against is saying that it's been over 10 years of unmitigated failure and that right now he cannot do a single thing right.
I don't think I'm misrepresenting your views there, that is what you seem to be posting right now. The reality, as always, is a bit more complicated.
You said in a previous post that Wenger has taken us from a "top 2" club to a "top 4" one and maybe even now a "top 6" one. There is some truth in that but it should be noted that there isn't a top 2 any more simply because clubs like City and Chelsea have bought their way in to the top table. And Liverpool and Spurs have sorted themselves out to an extent although it hasn't landed either a title and it won't this year either. There isn't a manager in the world who could make us a top 2 team every year with the spending power of Chelsea, Utd and City. We should be able to compete with those teams though and at least challenging for the title. That is where Wenger has failed and the Leicester season was particularly damning. I think that was then I "switched sides".

But for some reason you refuse to see it, constantly trying to replace these grand failures at the top level with FA cup wins.

No, I don't. As I said, I agree with much of your first paragraph. But the FA Cup wins and the top 4 finishes aren't irrelevant. They don't replace the failures, they sit alongside them and should be considered with them when we're assessing how Wenger has done. Wenger has had some successes and some failures. He's kept us in the 4, till last season. He's won a few FA Cups. He's failed miserably in Europe though and failed to land a title, even when all the other usual suspects simultaneously imploded. Overall the failures outweigh the successes and that's why he needs to go. But it's not 10 years of unmitigated failure, that is far too simplistic an assessment.

What's hyperbolic about pointing to the guy's record and calling him out on the facts? He is a shitty manager, because he's got the record to prove it. Almost 10 million quid for the shit he shovels?

That isn't hyperbolic, apart from the bit about him being a shitty manager. I don't agree with that. But he shouldn't have been offered a new contract or given a pay rise.

I know you keep repeating all that guff about wanting him gone, etc, etc. And yet you have this enduring need to leap in and defend every criticism made against him

And here's the key point. That is just not true, is it? I don't defend every criticism. It's just demonstrably not true.
But I WILL argue against the things I see as more hyperbolic nonsense. I don't think he's a "shitty" manager. He gets some things right and other things wrong.
I WILL argue against nonsense like we have an "average" squad and an "awful" manager. This is obviously nonsense.
Two years ago we finished 2nd. To Leicester, admittedly. And OK, let's throw in the fact that Spurs shat themselves on the last day so really we should have finished 3rd. But whatever, that still isn't average.
Last year we finished 5th, first time we'd missed out on top 4 under Wenger but we won the FA Cup.
Right now we are in the top 4, the only sides above us are City, Utd and Chelsea - all of whom are able to outspend us. And we won our Europa League group despite putting out very mixed teams.
We've just won our 12th home game (possibly just league game?) in a row.

This is NOT the work of an awful manager working with an average squad. THAT is hyperbolic nonsense and deserves some ridicule.

The guy who even now defends this manager you supposedly want to see sacked. Nuanced you say? Bizarre more like. Some sort of cultish obsession.

Well, again, I don't defend him against every criticism. That is not true. You know it isn't true. But I will argue against stuff like this:

I think [Sanchez being rested] had more to do with Wenger being the most incompetent fuck in the world of sport...Don't know or care how many we have played, but it seems we are still a million miles away from having an established eleven. Most clueless cunt in football, the Wenger bloke.

(You after the Watford loss)

That is hyperbole. It's obviously nonsense. Again, we are top 4 right now. The only sides above us are those who can outspend us.
Wenger's getting a lot wrong and things like putting Lacazette on the bench against Liverpool and City are bizarre and indefensible. But he's not as bad as you say he is, if he were we'd be nowhere near the top 4.

10 years of failure Letters. This is Arsenal FC, not that shitty little lot down at the lane and certainly not Arsene FC. But for as long as a section of the fan base keeps defending this guy's indefensible record, we'll be stuck in this time loop and it wouldn't surprise me if another 10 years from now you'll be sat here putting lipstick on 20 years of dross and laughing at greying supporters who are on their knees begging the old goat to fuck off.

Again, I want Wenger gone. It's perfectly possible to think that and also think that he's not "the most incompetent fuck in the world of sport" and call that out as the hyperbole and nonsense it is.

[selassie]

I thought we should stick with him and hoped that the first FA Cup was the sign of greater things to come. The signing of Ozil and Sanchez seemed like the start of a new transfer policy which could potentially push us on. It's increasingly clear that it wasn't and that Wenger will never land us another title. So yeah, #WengerOut. And had it gone the way I hoped then yes of course I'd be pleased we stuck with him and would feel vindicated. But just because it didn't go that way, that doesn't mean that I now think he is "awful" or has assembled an "average" squad. We're back in the top 4 right now FFS, he can't be doing absolutely everything wrong. Is it really so hard to have a more nuanced view?

Finishing in the top 4 should be the absolute bare minimum considering the resources we have. We should be strongly challenging for titles, that should be the standard and should have been over the past 3 or 4 seasons, if not longer. What was the point of moving to this stadium and securing new commercial deals etc etc if we don't utilise the resources at hand by turning the team into a competitive one. Wenger is absolutely at fault for this, the stagnation of the team is solely on him.

He's doing a poor job with what he has, he's absolutely failing in most aspects of his job, there certainly isn't any area that he is exceeding in.

He is responsible for the team/the squad, he is responsible for the mess he has gotten us into whereby we are set to lose 2 of our best players on a free or for a low fee this January, that is gross negligence and would be a sackable offence at any of our rivals. What makes it worse is these players are likely to join our supposed rivals.

[Letters]

Agreed, selassie. And it's perfectly possible to agree with that without thinking he is "the most incompetent fuck in the world of sport" or that he is an "awful" manager who has assembled an "average" squad.

[selassie]

Agreed, selassie. And it's perfectly possible to agree with that without thinking he is "the most incompetent fuck in the world of sport" or that he is an "awful" manager who has assembled an "average" squad.

He is an awful manager now though.

[Letters]

How are we in the top 4 right now then?
I mean, there's no objective measure of what "awful" is, but we're in the top 4 right now which doesn't seem like the work of an awful manager.

[Power n Glory]

This has been done to death. People need stop entertaining Letters. NQ broke down where this will go a few pages back. It's a constant loop and you'll repeat the same debate in a few months.

[Letters]

This has been done to death. People need stop entertaining Letters. NQ broke down where this will go a few pages back. It's a constant loop and you'll repeat the same debate in a few months.

Or, you could try replying to my post.
If you disagree with my more detailed thoughts on how things are going and the things I think Wenger should be criticised for and defended against then please elaborate.
What am I saying above that you actually disagree with?

[Marc Overmars]

Hey, don't make fun of the FES. We have members all around the globe.

That made me chuckle.