Summer Transfer Misery and Recriminations.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Ok. Do you think if we were to have signed up Klopp or Pepp they'd have a problem with this freedom? Jose even? Do you think they'd struggle and go 12 years without the league title?

I don't think they'd accept that kind of role in the first place, why would any of them want to concern themselves with for instance the amount the club pays for a transfer. It should be for the manager to decide what player he wants and then the club to buy that player for the manager.

They'd want to solely concern themselves with things a football manager should concern themselves about. This is what i said to you on Monday, no decent manager would want to take up this job because although they want freedom to do the job the way they see fit, there has to be some kind of structure in place.

[Kano]

It's not all about that, there's such a thing as pride in your work, he can't possibly be proud of what he's delivering, which leads me to think he doesn't give a toss, all he cares about is his buddies at the top and his players, oh and of course what he's getting, everything else is but a distraction, it's clear to me he doesn't give a damn about the fans, his patronising words and the way he's quick to point the finger are testament to that.

And yet you believe he'd be a nice person to meet with on a one to one basis. If I thought all of those things and more, as you do, about somebody, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near them.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't know what you mean by 'accept' low standards? Who wants their bosses to be more demanding?
I think he is more demanding of himself though and I think his perennial failure hurts him but I don't think he's capable of doing more.
It's obvious why he hasn't been sacked, a better question is why hasn't he resigned. I think that's because he thinks he can still do a good job.
Every season now is becoming like a double or quits with the fans.

Actually a lot of people like having demanding bosses, knowing that the boss demands high standards (as long as they are not unreasonable standards) gives you the push you need, rather than a totally unstructured, disorganised environment where there is no pressure to succeed apart from within and after a while that's not an environment where self-motivation can prevail for long.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And yet you believe he'd be a nice person to meet with on a one to one basis. If I thought all of those things and more, as you do, about somebody, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near them.

I think he's a human being, and it's human nature that if nobody else is pushing you....it's hard to always push yourself.

How many of GB's gold medallists would succeed purely on self-determination rather than coaches that keep them constantly encouraged and motivated

[Goonermerree]

Surely going for as many trophies as you can, finishing the highest you can and going the furthest you can to achieve that is the measure of success. Everyone know we should have won at least a couple of titles since we last won it, but we haven't strengthened the team enough to do so. We should have strengthened in January when we saw what was happening to the other top teams. The club wouldn't have been bankrupted by buying decent players. The trouble with Wenger, he wants world class players for bargain bin prices and it just isn't going to happen, so we end up with the dross.

[Power n Glory]

I don't think they'd accept that kind of role in the first place, why would any of them want to concern themselves with for instance the amount the club pays for a transfer. It should be for the manager to decide what player he wants and then the club to buy that player for the manager.

They'd want to solely concern themselves with things a football manager should concern themselves about. This is what i said to you on Monday, no decent manager would want to take up this job because although they want freedom to do the job the way they see fit, there has to be some kind of structure in place.

You're assuming that's all been imposed on him.

“I personally believe the only way to be a manager is to spend the club’s money as if it were your own,” he said, “because if you don’t do that you’re susceptible to too many mistakes.

“You make big decisions and I believe you have to act like it’s your own money, like you’re the owner of the club and you can identify completely with the club.

“Because if you don’t do that I think you cannot go far.”

There are many hints in his quotes that show what this isn't something imposed on him. He has strong convictions about the way a club should be run and there are plenty of others that go this far. The clubs been adapted to suit his beliefs. It's not the other way round. From the early days when he changed what the players should eat and changing diets to what we see now with the wage structure and transfers.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Surely going for as many trophies as you can, finishing the highest you can and going the furthest you can to achieve that is the measure of success. Everyone know we should have won at least a couple of titles since we last won it, but we haven't strengthened the team enough to do so. We should have strengthened in January when we saw what was happening to the other top teams. The club wouldn't have been bankrupted by buying decent players. The trouble with Wenger, he wants world class players for bargain bin prices and it just isn't going to happen, so we end up with the dross.

If you are 66, and your bosses make it clear there is no expectation on you to achieve anything more than what you are doing. And actually by spending lots of money this is no more likely to guarantee success for you, but rather more likely to cement the impression that you are past it...what would you do?.
Does Wenger want us to win the title still? yeah and i think he's probably disappointed when we fail, but i genuinely think he's afraid to spend more money only to end up with the same result. At no other job would he have the unchecked power he has at Arsenal, which is actually what motivates him to stay with the club more than the money.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If it were me my preference would be to allow a manager to bring in some of his own team, but also work with coaches and other staff employed by the club (like Shad Forsythe and Wim Jonker who were employed by Gazidis)....that money would be available to them to spend on players and that whilst the choice of players would come from a list the manager and his scouting staff devised....that the club would set the valuation for those players.

A new manager would be given a three year contract, and that an extension would only be considered if meaningful progress in football competitions were being made (having actually challenged for the title rather than falling away in february/march, reaching at least the semi finals of the european cup etc), an extension would be offered only at the end of that three year period unless a major trophy like the premier league or the european cup was won.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

You're assuming that's all been imposed on him.


There are many hints in his quotes that show what this isn't something imposed on him. He has strong convictions about the way a club should be run and there are plenty of others that go this far. The clubs been adapted to suit his beliefs. It's not the other way round. From the early days when he changed what the players should eat and changing diets to what we see now with the wage structure and transfers.

Whether it's been imposed on him or not is irrelevant (in fact I'm fairly sure it hasn't been imposed on him but the fact that he has chosen to take on those responsibilities without someone stepping in and intervening is even more concerning) the fact that a club is prepared to operate in that fashion is deeply, deeply concerning.

[Xhaka Can’t]

Have we bought anybody decent yet?

You need to go to the transfer thread to find out.