Who Will Win The League - 2

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Really? I thought it was universally understood that Wenger has always been tactically limited

In fact the same things were said about Arsenal even when he had his invincibles team, deny them space and time and they will find it hard to play, they don't like playing physical teams, they try to walk the ball in the net etc

The difference today is the players that Wenger has bought since 2006 are on average smaller, physically slighter and more technical and they don't take collective responsibility for their performances.
They also lack the ability to defend a corner and about ten seconds later have the ball in the opposistion net which was the greatest strength of that Wenger team to break with pace.

[Niall_Quinn]

Really? I thought it was universally understood that Wenger has always been tactically limited

In fact the same things were said about Arsenal even when he had his invincibles team, deny them space and time and they will find it hard to play, they don't like playing physical teams, they try to walk the ball in the net etc

The difference today is the players that Wenger has bought since 2006 are on average smaller, physically slighter and more technical and they don't take collective responsibility for their performances.
They also lack the ability to defend a corner and about ten seconds later have the ball in the opposistion net which was the greatest strength of that Wenger team to break with pace.

That was it. The tactics were simple. First stand up to the opponent and win the physical confrontation (often in the tunnel), then control the play and encourage the opponent to come out, then hit them ruthlessly on the break - at least three men breaking at high speed right across the pitch. Finally outlast the opponent using superior stamina and fitness (to the point we were accused of drugging up the players). Right players, right tactics for this league.

Then Wenger made the catastrophic decision to create Barca Lite. We've never recovered. We could have recovered, but he's too stubborn to acknowledge his mistakes. That clip with him talking about creating beauty in man. Basically, fuck off. Admit you were wrong matey and fix it.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't know, I don't think it's as simple as that there were times when we passed the ball to death and showed little in the way of penetration even when we had the players where we could play the style of football you have just described.

For a key example look at the Champions league home games in the second stage group of 2002/2003 where we failed to break down Valencia, Ajax or Roma at Highbury (0-0), (1-1) and (1-1).

Which suggests to me that the tactics have changed less than the attributes of the playing personnel.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't know, I don't think it's as simple as that there were times when we passed the ball to death and showed little in the way of penetration even when we had the players where we could play the style of football you have just described.

For a key example look at the Champions league home games in the second stage group of 2002/2003 where we failed to break down Valencia, Ajax or Roma at Highbury (0-0), (1-1) and (1-1).

Which suggests to me that the tactics have changed less than the attributes of the playing personnel.

I agree, that was a result of Plan A failing which was to draw the opponent on to us. When they refused we'd be a bit stuck, but we had brilliant individuals who could improvise. Players better than Giroud, for example.

[Power n Glory]

Really? I thought it was universally understood that Wenger has always been tactically limited

In fact the same things were said about Arsenal even when he had his invincibles team, deny them space and time and they will find it hard to play, they don't like playing physical teams, they try to walk the ball in the net etc

The difference today is the players that Wenger has bought since 2006 are on average smaller, physically slighter and more technical and they don't take collective responsibility for their performances.
They also lack the ability to defend a corner and about ten seconds later have the ball in the opposistion net which was the greatest strength of that Wenger team to break with pace.

Universally now but not in the early when GW first started. Wenger was hardly questioned in the early days. A lot has changed since.

[Globalgunner]

We have never had a team as great as the boys of 2000-2004. If Wenger wasnt able to reach the heights with those players. Its unlikely with him getting worse and players getting worse that we will ever be able to reach even those giddy heights. Even the great teams need a great manager to take them over the mountain.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Universally now but not in the early when GW first started. Wenger was hardly questioned in the early days. A lot has changed since.

From what I can remember he was criticised but his sacking was not called for by many until the last five years or so.

[Niall_Quinn]

From what I can remember he was criticised but his sacking was not called for by many until the last five years or so.

I wasn't here for the early days of GW. So whatever was said back then doesn't really count for much.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I remember the previous GW forum which I only ever sporadically used

The best posts were often non football related

So in fact very little has changed

[Power n Glory]

From what I can remember he was criticised but his sacking was not called for by many until the last five years or so.

Not to the extent of what's being said here and now and it's roundly accepted that he's not a great tactician. Mots of the discussions on the old forum were about missing Vieira, a good captain, excitement and disappointment with new young players. Much more varied.