Hopefully that day comes soon, not interested in any manager doing 10 years here no matter how brilliant (or not) they are.Originally Posted by Mac76
Football is constantly evolving faster these days. Sticking with the same ideas is not only boring but also sets yourself up for failure, my opinion.
Agree, and even Arteta himself is somewhat adhering to old ideas, i.e. the way Man City used to play - if he can't move on from that there's no future for him here
If we spend big in the summer the Kroenkes will surely expect an ROI of substance, not just finishing second and playing in the CL
On paper we should be favourites next year, with possibly all of TAA, Salah and VVD leaving Liverpool, plus Citeh also rebuilding - which means Forest PL win incoming
Seems like Trent is itching for the Madrid move now.
Interesting to see how Liverpool adapt without him next year because his passing is such a key part of how they’ve played for years.
Now that this season's disappointment is not so recent, I am beginning to come to the view that it's not so much that Arteta is wedded to the same ideas and incapable of evolving, but that we will never be a team under him that favours individuality over system based football.
And I'm not so sure that this is a bad thing. Systemic football is the reality these days, and a combination of the best players and the best system is bound to prevail. Gone I think are the days when teams were built around a single mercurial talent - you only need to see Portugal with Ronaldo, or the fact that Norway strangely seem to be less effective than might be thought with Erling Haaland and Martin Ødegaard in it to see evidence of this.
I am coming to the conclusion that our travails this season have been not so much our failure to counter attack and manage transitions well (my previous view), but because Arteta's system is so finely honed that taking out Odegard (missing or out of form for most of the season); Saka and Havertz will make it look ineffective. We showed that we could survive one of our key players being absent - but not three - which I suppose is not so surprising.
I think that Arteta has a great deal of tactical acumen and the ability to evolve. Let's see whether I am right when we invest, and have a fuller complement of forwards after the Summer.
Putting the laughter back into manslaughter
I do think it's a bad thing, the best managers are able to combine a good system which inherently allows more freedom for players to exercise their strengths, I feel Arteta part-strangles some talents with the way he over manages
The inability to counter-attack you mention lies firmly at Arteta's feet, not the players IMO, there are players there who could do it a lot more under the right system
I haven't watched Norway much at all but Odegaard and Haaland by themselves can't lift a team if the other players are significantly inferior (which isn't also to say it's possible the system isn't right either)
I can only point again to Everton to show how a manager can improve a team infinitely by playing a freer style and encouraging players to be more positive, which is without doubt what Moyes has done
So the answer is to bring in Moyes obvs
I take your point but I wasn't saying that Arteta won't give his players freedom to exercise ther strengths. When you look at Saka, Havertz; Odegard; Nwaneri; Rice; Ben White and pretty much all our left backs - all of these players have licence to roam, and within our system I'd say that they play to their strengths - and even that the system is geared to this. Even in defence - particularly Saliba and Raya are hardly wedded to a traditional pitch position.
What I was saying is that Arteta's teams are not based around individual 'maverics' - and I can see the merits in working with a system intended to maximise potential as a team rather than relying principally on moments from individuals. I maintain that football generally is evolving in this way, and my view is that the best system rather than having mercurial individuals is likely to bring the greatest benefits.
Regarding your comments about Norway, the argument can go the other way also. Greece; Denmark won the Euros with very ordinary players. Iceland similarly humbled England and reached the Quarters in 2016. This season, Forest; Brighton; Fulham are all flying high with teams of players who pound for pound are inferior to those of the traditional top 5 or 6 in the league. Liverpool are the exception really - given their reliance on Salah and the jury is out on how they will fare without his extraordinary returns. Focussing on individuals rather than forging a team system is in my view an obviously flawed approach.
This is not to say that harnessing player strengths is not vital. It is. And we all have our views on how certain of our players could be used differently. But I don't think Arteta can be accused fairly of not playing to his players' strengths.
Whether his system is too inflexible is really another question. I think that at times it has been - not just this season, but in past ones. But as I have said, I've come to the view that this deficiency this season has been driven first and foremost by missing players rather than a manager who simply cannot see that we have lacked menace at times. This is why I am prepared to reserve judgment until we have players back, refreshed our personnel and got in a decent pre-seacon in the Summer.
I recall distinctly complaining on here in 2021/2 and 2022/3 that we looked too robotic a lot of the time and lacked movement and penetration - but this was hardly the case in the second half of last season was it? The system clicked then and we were not lamenting strangling of talent. Arteta has changed during his tenure and I am hoping that he can again.
Last edited by IBK; 26-03-2025 at 10:37 AM.
Putting the laughter back into manslaughter
Fair enough
It could also derail the end of their season, the fans have already said they want to shout abuse at him every game til he leaves now, what with him being a dirty rat and a traitor, etc, etc.
Even if this happened and Liverpool tried to do a Newcastle by losing 5 of the 9 games they have left, we'd still be unable to take advantage as we aren't able to score goals consistently thanks to not having something as basic as a striker, largely due to Mr Smarty Pants.
Last edited by 21_GOONER_SALUTE; 26-03-2025 at 05:25 PM.
Oh I agree - but there is a possibility that could all change now that Saka is due back soon.
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