FA Cup thread 2013/14

[Özim]

OK. And how do you get a top manager?
HINT: Big salary...

Yes but aren't you highlighting the point here, without an injection of money you have no hope of every bridging the gap.

[Letters]

Yes but aren't you highlighting the point here, without an injection of money you have no hope of every bridging the gap.

That is one of my points, you just said it wasn't solely down to the money but it is. It all comes back to the money one way or another.

[Özim]

I'm not living up in the clouds at all. All I'm saying, quite rightly, is that any achievement is shallow, given that it is akin to steroids in athletics.

Yes, there has never been a level playing field, but at least we kicked ourselves up the table by playing football, and earnt our rewards that way, rather than having the money first and then buying the rewards.

I do accept that it is part of the game. I don't have to agree with it. And I can certainly complain about it if I feel it is corrupt (which it is). But I actually take pleasure in the fact that we're giving them a run for their money (pardon the pun), without those luxurys. Ultimately, we will never win though, because we can't have 100 million quids worth of strikers sat on the bench....

You can praise their achievements in that respect if you wish, but I think that's pretty shallow in itself.

I'd liken it to someone taking steroids because they wanted to beat the people who were winning using better equipment only available to them.

To an extent yes we did, but we've had plenty of influence on how the game should be run being in the group of large clubs who made the decisions.

You can complain about it of course, but ultimately it won't really belittle their achievements because history will only show how successful they have been not how much monety they've spent. You'll also find most of the people you see talking about them still praise their achievements because they look at it from the point of view of what's happening on the pitch, which is the way I prefer to look at it.

[Özim]

That is one of my points, you just said it wasn't solely down to the money but it is. It all comes back to the money one way or another.

When I said it wasn't solely about money, what I meant was that you can't just given someone x amount and then expect them to win, the person you employ still needs to be very good at what they are doing, I appreciate top managers do cost money, although theoretically it's possible to find managers to do a job who aren't as high profile, Di Matteo at Chelsea (though he didn't last long).

[Letters]

You'll also find most of the people you see talking about them still praise their achievements because they look at it from the point of view of what's happening on the pitch, which is the way I prefer to look at it.

Most pundits do seem to praise them, it's true. I find it baffling tbh.
I don't regard them winning the league, or any other trophy, as an 'achievement'.
Whatever the history books may say we all know how they're doing what they're doing and they deserve zero credit.
Any decent book wouldn't just be a list of records, it would provide some context and therefore mention the money anyway.

[LDG]

They're listening



http://news.arseblog.com/2014/01/fox...edium=facebook

[fakeyank]

So why do you moan your tits off and call Wenger every name under the sun when we finish below them?

Because there are some obvious things which he hasnt done in past seasons. 'Things' which wouldnt have cost a dime most of the times or even if they did, it wouldnt have been something that'd have killed us as a club. I have mentioned these before and I'll give a quick highlight:
- Playing players in their best positions. Ex: Diaby on left, Eduardo and Bendtner on the wings, Kos on the right etc
- Working on the defense. In particular, dead ball situations. We have drastically improved this season but lets not forget 7 seasons of horror
- Investing a lot of time and effort into crocks and AW's love childs. Ex: Diaby, Rosicky, Almunia
- Not investing the extra 1 or 2 million quid on a player that wouldve changed our team from challengers to champions. Ex: Alonso, Schwarzer
- Waiting pretty much every transfer window till the last minute to buy players and then give the usual excuses "Waiting period", "It takes a player six months to get used to English conditions"
- Not keeping a hold of experienced players. Yes, they might have lost that extra pace on the field but what they can offer in the dressing room is priceless. Ex: Lauren, Gilberto, Vieira, Pires and very soon, likely to be Sagna.

Like NQ had said, these mega rich clubs are failing too despite their huge investments. Its up to us to make sure we grab any and every opportunity we get to capitalize on their weaknesses. If we do not sign a striker this window, that'd be one of those opportunities I'm talking about. And no, I am not putting forward unrealistic names like Reuss and Costa. Let's just get Berba to have a sure fire and decent backup. Let's not fuck up our very good position in the league. Do I think AW will do anything about it? Highly unlikely...

[hobson's choice]

What you say might be true (I don't think lamenting of there being no other way is why the owners spend this money personally) however talking about how it's the only way to compete sounds a bit misguided in somehow protecting them when clubs a la Man City and Chelsea do become the institution. Then what? Is it any easier for other clubs to compete with them than it was competing with the other clubs beforehand? I'd say not.

What you say above - it's the only way, really means the death of good management and planning. It's probably also why those lower clubs you mention take on any owner, regardless of what they may eventually want or do with the club (see Cardiff and Hull) start chasing a dream and end up in a far worse state than they were before but it will be justified because they manage to attain some short term success (in this case promotion) and the fans are supposed to be grateful forevermore of those short few seasons of success.

A good example is Sevilla. they've done it the "right" way, and they've had some success, even got very close to winning a title. Look at them now, just another mid table team battling for scraps. Because every season they have to sell their best players, or possibly lose a manager to a bigger and better job. They have a good academy, good scouting network. but it's hard to consistently produce good players from your academy. And in this day, no matter how good your scouting is, it ain't easy getting diamonds in the rough, like they used to.

A huge cash injection is the only way for small clubs with big dreams, because cash is the only way you can retain quality. You can plan, hire a great manager, have a great academy. But what does mean when Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Liverpool, United come calling.

Is not about being able to buy, it's about being able to retain , that's what big cash gets you. Which is what small clubs can't do

[hobson's choice]

Get out

Even gooners are buying into it.

Ther reason we are where we are, is that the people that run our club (like them or loathe them) have made very astute decisions over a long period of time. We breed it. We make it essential that we do things properly, cleverly and with a touch of class.

Any other club in the world could have signed arsene wenger as manager before we did.

Other clubs have not made clever decisions. Just looks at Spurs.

The playing field has never been level, simply because more fans have chosesn to support certian clubs rather than others, but in terms of the top tier or professional football, any club with a good business leader, cultered thinkers, PROPER knowledge of the game throughout their hiarachy cohld have done the same as us.

But you constantly see sides who think that signing Harry Redknapp or Mark Hughes is a good way to run a club. These people are just stupid. It has nothing to do with money at all!

What are you smoking, and can I get some of that please. I understand where you are coming from, but it's just not reality.

[Niall_Quinn]

A good example is Sevilla. they've done it the "right" way, and they've had some success, even got very close to winning a title. Look at them now, just another mid table team battling for scraps. Because every season they have to sell their best players, or possibly lose a manager to a bigger and better job. They have a good academy, good scouting network. but it's hard to consistently produce good players from your academy. And in this day, no matter how good your scouting is, it ain't easy getting diamonds in the rough, like they used to.

A huge cash injection is the only way for small clubs with big dreams, because cash is the only way you can retain quality. You can plan, hire a great manager, have a great academy. But what does mean when Real Madrid, Barca, Bayern, Liverpool, United come calling.

Is not about being able to buy, it's about being able to retain , that's what big cash gets you. Which is what small clubs can't do

FFP was meant to help, but the games is run by crooks. A start would be to get rid of the crooks and introduce some sort of a system that penalises clubs who run up huge losses whilst having huge wage bills. Current FFP locks the bigger clubs to the top and locks the smaller clubs out, should be the other way around. Get the corruption that apparently doesn't exist out of the game.