Wenger after 2017

[Niall_Quinn]

But as far as I'm concerned as fed up as we are of Wenger, he'd have won the title with Man City in 2012 and in 2014 and probably more than that, not because he's a great manager but comparatively he is better than Mancini and Pellegrini.

Surely this is the whole point about Wenger? He'd have found a way to fuck it up. He's had several squads more than capable of winning a title and making a challenge in the PL. But each and every time he's done whatever it is he does that causes the squad to under perform at the critical moments. I think you could give him his pick of any 22 form any league and he still couldn't build a competitive team. Even the Invincibles under performed in the CL. He lacks the winner's instinct and the killer ambition of top managers. His focus is elsewhere, on some idealistic crusade for what he considers football ought to be. The whole sustainable crap thing is underpinned by that idealism and his willingness to make that a priority above all else. I reckon he'd have lost with those gypo squads, but he'd have made twice the profit. He wouldn't have bought half the players in the first place, remember he's the manager who almost signed every top player over the last 20 years. Almost. The only stumbling block was it would have cost money, and that's vulgar and unacceptable.

[Niall_Quinn]

I wasn't trying to suggest you should make up your mind right now

In my student days used to watch Adult Swim and a cartoon called Stripperella, and one of her nemesis' was a villain called Cheapo who in one of his bank raids makes his henchmen drive around looking for a place to park that didn't have a parking meter.

Wow, you're fucking crazier than me.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Surely this is the whole point about Wenger? He'd have found a way to fuck it up. He's had several squads more than capable of winning a title and making a challenge in the PL. But each and every time he's done whatever it is he does that causes the squad to under perform at the critical moments. I think you could give him his pick of any 22 form any league and he still couldn't build a competitive team. Even the Invincibles under performed in the CL. He lacks the winner's instinct and the killer ambition of top managers. His focus is elsewhere, on some idealistic crusade for what he considers football ought to be. The whole sustainable crap thing is underpinned by that idealism and his willingness to make that a priority above all else. I reckon he'd have lost with those gypo squads, but he'd have made twice the profit. He wouldn't have bought half the players in the first place, remember he's the manager who almost signed every top player over the last 20 years. Almost. The only stumbling block was it would have cost money, and that's vulgar and unacceptable.

With Aguero, Silva, Yaya Toure and Kompany in their prime Wenger would have found it hard to fuck it up, he had the squad there for him to use so no reason to play people out of position. Even with the collapse they are on now with the managerial vaccum, it would be hard to argue those players are not mentally stronger than our overpaid silky boys.
Wenger has bought in the wrong type of players for sure, and his skills as a motivator are dubious, but If Mancini and Pellegrini could win the title with City, Wenger could do it and then some.
Could he have won the title with United with their mainly average dross, no probably no but given a side where he hasn't hamstrung himself by missing out critical elements he'd have walked the league with a squad like City have, which is less of an endorsement of Wenger more a repudiation of the fact that City haven't retained the title

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Wow, you're fucking crazier than me.

Depends how you're judging crazy

[Power n Glory]

With Aguero, Silva, Yaya Toure and Kompany in their prime Wenger would have found it hard to fuck it up, he had the squad there for him to use so no reason to play people out of position. Even with the collapse they are on now with the managerial vaccum, it would be hard to argue those players are not mentally stronger than our overpaid silky boys.
Wenger has bought in the wrong type of players for sure, and his skills as a motivator are dubious, but If Mancini and Pellegrini could win the title with City, Wenger could do it and then some.
Could he have won the title with United with their mainly average dross, no probably no but given a side where he hasn't hamstrung himself by missing out critical elements he'd have walked the league with a squad like City have, which is less of an endorsement of Wenger more a repudiation of the fact that City haven't retained the title

What if Aguero, Silva, Yaya and Company out injured? Also, it's not as if Chelsea, Utd or even Liverpool were nothing teams. We're looking at one of the strongest teams Wenger has put together in years, with our rivals being at the weakest we've seen in years and it's currently impossible for us to finish on anything more that 79 points. With the team we have we should be walking the league but we're seeing some of the worst football we've seen under Wenger. We should be walking the league right now so explain how he's walk the league back then when competition was tougher?

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

We have great players in certain areas but we are far from a complete team, plus the squad depth of Man City would mean that short of an injury cataclysm they'd be covered.


Familiarity breeds contempt and I think whilst there are better managers out there than Wenger, the assumption that people make that almost any manager is better than him just doesn't hold. His failings are laid more bare because he takes on more responsibility at the club than any other manager does.
The guy hamstrings himself at Arsenal, but like I say if he was presiding over the squad at Man City and had no more responsibility than Mancini or Pellegrini had, had have fayred better than both.


End of the day it's largely all opinion, I think we sometimes over estimate the overall influence a manager has, since when did Claudio Ranieri become a tactical genius? In fact his entire managerial record is pretty poor but he's on the verge of achieving something that arguably surpasses what Clough did with Nottingham Forest.

[Kano]

We have great players in certain areas but we are far from a complete team, plus the squad depth of Man City would mean that short of an injury cataclysm they'd be covered.


Familiarity breeds contempt and I think whilst there are better managers out there than Wenger, the assumption that people make that almost any manager is better than him just doesn't hold. His failings are laid more bare because he takes on more responsibility at the club than any other manager does.
The guy hamstrings himself at Arsenal, but like I say if he was presiding over the squad at Man City and had no more responsibility than Mancini or Pellegrini had, had have fayred better than both.


End of the day it's largely all opinion, I think we sometimes over estimate the overall influence a manager has, since when did Claudio Ranieri become a tactical genius? In fact his entire managerial record is pretty poor but he's on the verge of achieving something that arguably surpasses what Clough did with Nottingham Forest.

What Ranieri has done is maintain momentum from Pearson's turnaround at the end of last season. Tactically he has bowed to the team, he is on record as saying that the squad asked him not to mess around with the formula they had found in the last ten games of last season, so his infamous 'tinkerman' hasn't come to the fore. Ranieri has done fanatically well at managing the squad and keeping them mentally sharp but just as much praise has to go to Pearson. But compared to Clough? No way. Two back-to-back European Cups and a league title in an era when the best teams hadn't fallen to the wayside like the big boys have this season. Nottingham's very first Euro game was against the then mighty Liverpool, reigning EC champions and of course they beat them. What Leicester are doing is amazing but if they were doing it against a prime time Utd, Chelsea and City, then I think the Clough comparison would be justified.

[Marc Overmars]

We have great players in certain areas but we are far from a complete team, plus the squad depth of Man City would mean that short of an injury cataclysm they'd be covered.


Familiarity breeds contempt and I think whilst there are better managers out there than Wenger, the assumption that people make that almost any manager is better than him just doesn't hold. His failings are laid more bare because he takes on more responsibility at the club than any other manager does.
The guy hamstrings himself at Arsenal, but like I say if he was presiding over the squad at Man City and had no more responsibility than Mancini or Pellegrini had, had have fayred better than both.
.

I'm not sure, I think it's evident this team is poorly coached and of course Wenger needs to take the bullet for that, especially because he's had years to fine tune his team. City have generally played some of the best football in the league over the past few seasons, despite their cock ups. Their managers have at the very least been able to extract the quality needed from their players and play them to their strengths.

We on the other hand turn struggle to create any decent passages of play and have become about as one dimensional as it gets. Wenger is great manager but his inflexible approach and failure to identify weaknesses in the team until it's too late tells me he's not a great coach anymore.

[Power n Glory]

We have great players in certain areas but we are far from a complete team, plus the squad depth of Man City would mean that short of an injury cataclysm they'd be covered.


Familiarity breeds contempt and I think whilst there are better managers out there than Wenger, the assumption that people make that almost any manager is better than him just doesn't hold. His failings are laid more bare because he takes on more responsibility at the club than any other manager does.
The guy hamstrings himself at Arsenal, but like I say if he was presiding over the squad at Man City and had no more responsibility than Mancini or Pellegrini had, had have fayred better than both.


End of the day it's largely all opinion, I think we sometimes over estimate the overall influence a manager has, since when did Claudio Ranieri become a tactical genius? In fact his entire managerial record is pretty poor but he's on the verge of achieving something that arguably surpasses what Clough did with Nottingham Forest.

What exactly are Leicester City and Spurs working with? Superior teams with more depth? Do you think Wenger would have won the league with their squads?

I'm not assuming any old manager can do better than Wenger, I'm just looking at his past record, his flaws and going off that. We have a very poor injury record so that's something to consider. I've never seen him manage a situation where two massive egos are battling for one spot. Take the RB situation as an example. Debuchy starts of well for us, gets injured and loses his place to young Bellerin. Debuchy's upset about losing his place and can't earn it back because when given the opportunity he looks a total liability. What does Wenger do to remedy the situation? Sends Debuchy out on loan which leaves us short on defensive cover. He won't keep an unhappy player in the squad and can't turn their frustration into motivation so it weakens us. That's just the RB situation. I think 2008 when we were on our title run, Wenger sold Diarra because he was unhappy about not playing and that had an effect on how we ended the season. These are small nothing players so I can’t see him managing a squad full of egos well or keeping them ready on form.

[Letters]

Wenger should have delivered more trophies over the past 10 years, he's built some pretty decent teams to be fair. Despite that the same old flaws have resurfaced season after season, he should have been given the boot a while ago IMO.

I think he did pretty well in the era when we had to belt tighten somewhat while the billionaires were having the biggest impact. I agree he should have won more in that time though and it's increasingly clear he's not able to take us any further. What people seem not to acknowledge is the flaws we're seeing now which are hurting us have ALWAYS BEEN THERE. He wasn't a genius of a manger in the first half of his time with us and then suddenly a bumbling idiot. Like anyone, he has strengths and weaknesses. His strengths revolutionised the club when he first joined us - the fitness methods, the knowledge of the European game. Other clubs have caught up and arguably overtaken us so he's lost his edge. But that doesn't mean that he's suddenly an idiot and that the last 10 years have been an abject failure.