I would say that Xhaka’s role contributed to a lot of the good we did in the final third last year too. That has been replaced by a languid German who moves like he’s stuck in the mud.Originally Posted by HCZ_Reborn
Martinelli’s absence has been felt too I guess.
Just all very uninspiring right now. We’re a good team but are definitely lacking a special player up top.
Don’t have much hope for the City game but stranger things have happened I suppose.
Last edited by Marc Overmars; 03-10-2023 at 09:43 PM.
He keeps doing this shit over and over again and its really, really getting on my last nerve!
Anyone with eyes can see Viera has no business being on the wing with the way we play, he needs space and plays better when trying to dictate things from the center.
Its all so obvious, but Arteta keeps doing the same shit over and over again and expecting different results! Havertz was pointless in this game as usual and Partey or Eddie should have come on once momentum changed which had actually started once we lost Saka, in a game he had no business playing in!
Arteta remains a clown and I'm getting sick and tired of him sabotaging his own team just to prove to us all "he knows best"!
Maybe he is washed up…that doesn’t in anyway invalidate my argument. We clearly need a player like him who has the passing and the technique to get the ball forward more quickly. At the moment we are overrelying on playing Havertz and Odegaard to instigate a high press to maintain attacking moves, and if oppositions can withstand that then it makes us utterly toothless and therefore we lack the player who can play out from the back.
Rice does contribute to our attacking play but not in a timely way and by the time the front four/five have the ball in the final third we are playing in front of the opposition and we are sideways passing the ball to death.
With the players we have up front, you simply cannot be without a technical and quick midfielder with a good passing range. Rice doesn’t have any of these attributes..people like him because he’s a trier, he always puts in the effort etc but he’s so limited.
Mac, I think you need to watch some of our games last season to appreciate the real effect of Rice.
He is not a bad player, and does not weaken the team in general, but he adds absolutely ZERO to our attacking game, as he hardly holds the ball, hardly beats players and hardly makes passes that could be termed defence splitting.
I have since warmed to Rice and can clearly see how he makes us more difficult to beat....but that is ALL he does for now.
I'll repeat it again, he adds nothing to our attacking game, and though I do not believe he deserves all the blame for why we are so blunt, Arteta trying to force him down this team's throat is definitely one of the reasons we are stuttering.
Last edited by 21_GOONER_SALUTE; 03-10-2023 at 10:35 PM.
Was some utter hubris on display there.
I can’t see how Vieira can play on the wing, lacks the raw pace necessary
Saka? I just don’t know what he thinks he’s doing with him. Is he trying to break him.
Yeah I do think there is this “I’m smarter than the rest of you” mentality
To say he offers nothing is patently not true, given he's actually scored for us and also played some passes in - could he do more, maybe
but I do think there's a mythology about Partey that belies the reality - even when he's been fit his performances have sometimes yes been really strong but at other times woeful
I think if we're looking for weak points in the team then the starting point is Zinchenko and Havertz, neither of whom offer very much - not that I was a fan of Granit, but it's having Havertz instead of Xhaka that's blunted us a bit
As for Agent Zinchenko, his role seems to be to gaurantee Citeh the title by undermining our efforts by giving the ball away in dangerous situations and clogging up the midfield
Again misses the point, it doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about Partey or a player in the style of Partey the fact is that when we can’t get the ball forward from the back in a timely enough fashion it gives opposition players time to get back. We can complain about teams doing the deep block but the real problem is we lack the players in central midfield who can both protect the defence and stretch the midfield.
Rice is of course not singularly responsible for this, when you have a player like Havertz who is simply not contributing enough to the attacking dimension of the game as well as not dropping deep to receive the ball (even Xhaka at his worst did this) it’s simply taking too long for the ball to get into the final third, and there are bodies back to block shots.
It explains why we get more penalties either from bringing players down in the box or handballs, we have players like Jesus, Martinelli, Saka and Odegaard who got goals and made goals last season as a result of having space to operate in which we no longer have…because by the time they are getting the ball…the opposition is in place to set itself. And then Arteta decides to address this by overcommitting (especially at home) by pushing the defence up and using Havertz/Vieira and Odegaard to press the team in their own third…and they are often breaking through the press with long balls to pace merchants.
Away from home where we do have to soak up pressure, it does help to have Rice…he’s very good at sitting in front of the defence and breaking things up, but without the players to take it forward and execute a break it’s all for nothing rather
Well we still haven't shaken off the old horseshoe style of playing where we aren't quick or incisive enough and that is again due to players like Zin in particular and also Havertz (which you even admit yourself) who simply stand in the middle of two of our players and pass from one to the other, or dawdle on the ball and give it away.
replace them with players who are effective and it's problem solved and Rice gets on with what he's there to do - you just don't like Rice and you're trying to scapegoat him for others' failings
Zinchenko played last season (too much in my view) and we clearly didn’t have this problem then, and yes I’ve not denied that Havertz contributes to the issue but once again you frame your rebuttal to the argument you wish I were making rather than the one I am.
The reason I have been against us buying Rice was precisely because I absolutely believed we needed someone more technical, quicker and better in terms of passing than him. I have no idea if Partey is finished or not, I don’t really think you can judge him too much on this season given he’s been played at right back. No
But the fact is even if we had a more traditional box to box player, with Rice unable to take the ball past players and play more progressive passes (which even a player like Gilberto could do) it creates attacking issues. What that dimwit Arteta doesn’t seem to acknowledge is that the bullshit inverted fullbacks and what have you detracts from the fact that we have a team best set up to play on the counter attack, we have as I say a front four that needs space to operate.
But we also need proper full backs and two midfielders, one to sit in front of the defence but also spring the trap (which Rice can’t do) and one with an acceleration of pace to bring the ball forward, supplemented by fullbacks that can get forward
I like Rice, I think he’s got a top attitude, he puts the effort in but he’s simply not and never was the player we needed and if anything detracts from how we should be playing. And you can get rid of your pet hates like Zinchenko and that will still be the case I’m afraid.
my dislike of Zinchenko (and not the person mind, i mean the player) isn't just that he in general isn't good enough - not a pet hate but simple observation - but also as you say it's what he stands for with the whole inverted LB thing which makes us weaker in defence and adds very little in attack, as for him personally his propensity to give the ball away in dangerous situations, which literally happens in every game, is just too big a price to pay and if he wasn't so integral to how Arteta wants the team to play - plus a teacher's pet- he'd be on the bench most of the time if not sold by now
yes we don't transition well enough but it feels ilke that's a desire by Arteta to slow things down and have as much control as possible as anything else - he's very much from the 'patient buildup' school, but as we all know that gives the opposition far too much time to get organised
but i think we have players that could put together better movements but hey don't get a look-in - so i was all for selling ESR but it looks like he may have found some sharpenss and he's lost weight, but how many minutes is he going to get under such a stubborn manager?
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