Match Reaction v United away (PL, 16/17)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I don't really see any difference with this team between this season and last season. Slightly different personal but the same old flaws.

I think we'll scrape top 4 this season, I honestly can't see us finishing above any of Liverpool, Chelsea or City.

Hard to tell, i think every team i've seen this season has a lot of flaws

Liverpool as good as they are in an attacking sense showed saturday they can misfire and if a team had shown more ambition than Southampton did they would have taken all three points

Chelsea will come a cropper sooner rather than later playing three at the back

City's players don't seem to have adapted to playing the way Guardiola wants them to play.

Spurs seem to find it very hard to turn draws into wins even though they are incredibly hard to beat.

Although i think players should take responsibility for their own performances, i do agree with NQ that Wenger is a drag factor he comes out about the players having a psychological block playing at places like Old Trafford but doesn't seem to understand why this is even though it's happened for years upon years no matter what players we have in the side (it's you Arsene, your square peg in round hole team selection and you not getting the best performances from players because they don't get confidence from you in training or seeing you sit there on the touchline, sagging away in your Michelin man straitjacket)

If we do only scrape top four and that is enough for the board to give wenger a new contract, than i think then it is incumbent for fans to look at themselves before renewing their season tickets and think....what am i getting out of this?.....why am i paying so much when i know it will always be the same.

[Niall_Quinn]

Hard to tell, i think every team i've seen this season has a lot of flaws

Liverpool as good as they are in an attacking sense showed saturday they can misfire and if a team had shown more ambition than Southampton did they would have taken all three points

Chelsea will come a cropper sooner rather than later playing three at the back

City's players don't seem to have adapted to playing the way Guardiola wants them to play.

Spurs seem to find it very hard to turn draws into wins even though they are incredibly hard to beat.

Although i think players should take responsibility for their own performances, i do agree with NQ that Wenger is a drag factor he comes out about the players having a psychological block playing at places like Old Trafford but doesn't seem to understand why this is even though it's happened for years upon years no matter what players we have in the side (it's you Arsene, your square peg in round hole team selection and you not getting the best performances from players because they don't get confidence from you in training or seeing you sit there on the touchline, sagging away in your Michelin man straitjacket)

If we do only scrape top four and that is enough for the board to give wenger a new contract, than i think then it is incumbent for fans to look at themselves before renewing their season tickets and think....what am i getting out of this?.....why am i paying so much when i know it will always be the same.

And that's ultimately what TV has done to football, isn't it? Because many of the home fans will be able to answer themselves by saying they get a nice day out, in a flashy stadium, with a nice meal and a drink after, and what a jolly time was had by all - shame about the result but that wasn't the point of going.

Marketing has done football and Wenger and the board, like most managers and boards, are now playing for the money. Afraid to lose, the connection between money and success has been blurred because you can now earn millions and guarantee millions more by finishing 4th bottom. From thereon up it's a gravy train. Grab that top 4 spot and add a bunch more zeros. The fans are consumers so they'll pitch up anyway. If the English won't buy the shirts then the Asians will, just spend a few million buying a Japanese or Chinese guy and stick him on the bench. Or fly him east to do interviews.

Wenger probably feels he's doing the right thing by ditching the football and focusing on the cash. Everyone else is doing it so why not?

I wonder what happened inside Leicester last season to make things different? Whatever they had last year, we need now. I don't think we are looking for it though.

[Niall_Quinn]

Watching Walcott's interview again, it's a joke isn't it? How can he have been satisfied with that result and that performance, especially his own performance (or lack of it)? Are his standards really that low? It's totally unacceptable for him to hijack the past and claim a draw at Old Trafford is a decent result. Sure thing, it was a decent result when you were up against Ferguson, Keane and Co. But scraping a point in the last minute on the back of a disorganised joke of a performance and against a shitty Utd team led by a bloke who specialises in disharmony and chaos? Give it a rest Theo.

[Goonermerree]

Reading what Walott said made me very angry.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

And that's ultimately what TV has done to football, isn't it? Because many of the home fans will be able to answer themselves by saying they get a nice day out, in a flashy stadium, with a nice meal and a drink after, and what a jolly time was had by all - shame about the result but that wasn't the point of going.

Marketing has done football and Wenger and the board, like most managers and boards, are now playing for the money. Afraid to lose, the connection between money and success has been blurred because you can now earn millions and guarantee millions more by finishing 4th bottom. From thereon up it's a gravy train. Grab that top 4 spot and add a bunch more zeros. The fans are consumers so they'll pitch up anyway. If the English won't buy the shirts then the Asians will, just spend a few million buying a Japanese or Chinese guy and stick him on the bench. Or fly him east to do interviews.

Wenger probably feels he's doing the right thing by ditching the football and focusing on the cash. Everyone else is doing it so why not?

I wonder what happened inside Leicester last season to make things different? Whatever they had last year, we need now. I don't think we are looking for it though.

I think the answer is simpler than all that, Wenger is a conservative......whilst i'm sure for the board and for Mr Gazidis and Kroenke they are quite happy to have a non risk taker at the helm because it guarantees the cash flow. For Wenger he knows that sticking to what he knows delivers the bare minimum, and although I think he wants to achieve more, i think his rigid tendencies prevent him from doing enough, sticking his neck out and being innovative enough to push the boat out and go for it.

That kind of innovation, the desire to scrub the white board and go back to the beginning is just never going to appeal to a man of his age (if i was 67 i'm not sure i would either). Wenger is in a trap of his own making, afraid to retire and especially afraid not to go out in a blaze of glory.....but he's too trapped in his own way of thinking to make his eventual departure anything other than anti-climatic at the best.

[Gooner23]

Watching Walcott's interview again, it's a joke isn't it? How can he have been satisfied with that result and that performance, especially his own performance (or lack of it)? Are his standards really that low? It's totally unacceptable for him to hijack the past and claim a draw at Old Trafford is a decent result. Sure thing, it was a decent result when you were up against Ferguson, Keane and Co. But scraping a point in the last minute on the back of a disorganised joke of a performance and against a shitty Utd team led by a bloke who specialises in disharmony and chaos? Give it a rest Theo.

Not sure why you're that surprised, Theo has always been one to tow the party line..

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Watching Walcott's interview again, it's a joke isn't it? How can he have been satisfied with that result and that performance, especially his own performance (or lack of it)? Are his standards really that low? It's totally unacceptable for him to hijack the past and claim a draw at Old Trafford is a decent result. Sure thing, it was a decent result when you were up against Ferguson, Keane and Co. But scraping a point in the last minute on the back of a disorganised joke of a performance and against a shitty Utd team led by a bloke who specialises in disharmony and chaos? Give it a rest Theo.

On one hand, there is no doubt that United needed the win far more than we did. And i would have taken the draw before kick off (as defeats are always psychologically more damaging and we know full well that Wenger's sides are confidence sides).

On the other hand as you say there is very little to be proud about in a performance where a draw was stolen rather than earnt, it's all very well setting the team up to be gritty and defensive by the personnel you pick but if the team don't seem to have a defined game plan and for all the possession seem actually scared to commit players forward against a low quality United defence than you have to ask what was the point.

I always think even when chances are created even Wenger has admitted that we are frightened to take them, we either snatch at them or we make one more pass to a team mate. Wenger talks a lot about "belief" of his players, well who exactly is giving them this so-called belief?.....it's not coming from within and he sure as hell isn't giving it to them.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ever watch Bill Hicks?

By the way if anyone here is in advertising or marketing…kill yourself. It’s just a little thought; I’m just trying to plant seeds. Maybe one day they’ll take root – I don’t know. You try, you do what you can.

(Kill yourself.)

Seriously though, if you are, do.

Aaah, no really. There’s no rationalisation for what you do and you are Satan’s little helpers. Okay – kill yourself.

Seriously. You are the ruiner of all things good.

Seriously.

No this is not a joke. You’re [going], “There’s going to be a joke coming.” There’s no fucking joke coming. You are Satan’s spawn filling the world with bile and garbage. You are fucked and you are fucking us. Kill yourself. It’s the only way to save your fucking soul. Kill yourself

Planting seeds.

I know all the marketing people are going, “He’s doing a joke…” There’s no joke here whatsoever. Suck a tail-pipe, fucking hang yourself, borrow a gun from a Yank friend – I don’t care how you do it. Rid the world of your evil fucking machinations. (Machi…) Whatever, you know what I mean.

I know what all the marketing people are thinking right now too: “Oh, you know what Bill’s doing? He’s going for that anti-marketing dollar. That’s a good market. He’s very smart.”

Oh man, I am not doing that, you fucking, evil scumbags!

“Ooh, you know what Bill’s doing now? He’s going for the righteous indignation dollar. That’s a big dollar. A lot of people are feeling that indignation. We’ve done research – huge market. He’s doing a good thing.”

Godammit, I’m not doing that, you scum-bags! Quit putting a goddamn dollar sign on every fucking thing on this planet.

“Ooh, the anger dollar. Huge. Huge in times of recession. Giant market. Bill’s very bright to do that.”

God, I’m just caught in a fucking web.

“Ooh, the trapped dollar, big dollar, huge dollar. Good market – look at our research. We see that many people feel trapped. If we play to that and then separate them into the trapped dollar…”

How do you live like that? And I bet you sleep like fucking babies at night, don’t you?

“What didya do today, honey?”

“Oh, we made ah, we made ah arsenic a childhood food now, goodnight.” [snores] “Yeah we just said, you know, is your baby really too loud? You know?” [snores] “Yeah, you know the mums will love it.” [snores]

Sleep like fucking children, don’t ya. This is your world, isn’t it?

[Niall_Quinn]

Not sure why you're that surprised, Theo has always been one to tow the party line..

Was hoping after all this time he might have developed a bit of personal pride.

[Niall_Quinn]

On one hand, there is no doubt that United needed the win far more than we did. And i would have taken the draw before kick off (as defeats are always psychologically more damaging and we know full well that Wenger's sides are confidence sides).

On the other hand as you say there is very little to be proud about in a performance where a draw was stolen rather than earnt, it's all very well setting the team up to be gritty and defensive by the personnel you pick but if the team don't seem to have a defined game plan and for all the possession seem actually scared to commit players forward against a low quality United defence than you have to ask what was the point.

I always think even when chances are created even Wenger has admitted that we are frightened to take them, we either snatch at them or we make one more pass to a team mate. Wenger talks a lot about "belief" of his players, well who exactly is giving them this so-called belief?.....it's not coming from within and he sure as hell isn't giving it to them.

If you recall, it's the fans' fault.

There's even something in that though. The lethargy in this club has trickled down and seeped into every nook and cranny.