When will Arteta be sacked by

[Letters]

I personally think we will end up falling short.

This seems the most likely outcome. But I don't think we should fail to recognise what we are up against. What City have done over the last 5 years isn't normal.

If we win on Friday then we will be a point behind where the Invincibles were at the same stage. There's a chance we could finish on more points than they did. By any normal standards that should be enough to win you the title. But what City have done over the last few years isn't normal. It's insane that Liverpool got 97 points one year and City still beat them to the title. The only time anyone stopped them was when Liverpool went absolutely mental and won 26 of their first 27 games, drawing the other. Dropping 2 points from a possible 81 is insane. The only season City won the title with fewer than 90 points was 2 years ago when they got 86, but no-one was really pushing them - Utd came 2nd with 74. They have been an absolute machine over the last 5 years, and this year they've got Haaland. None of this means we don't have room for improvement, but I don't think City mowing us down would be the abject failure that some* people are trying to paint it as (*mostly people not on here, tbf)

[selassie]

They will come again no doubt about it. Whatever happens over the next few weeks I think the experience of this season will only do them good. It’s not a very battled hardened group of players, with the exception of 2 or 3. Majority of the squad have their best years ahead of them and there’s no real reason to think they’re suddenly going to disappear from the conversation.

CL football and the pull that comes with it, we should be confident of further improvement. I see this as the start of our journey now. Of course if things fall to shit next season then we’ll act accordingly but I don’t fear this is a now or never moment like some do.

Aye, I do think we have the quality to maintain this even with the current group of players which we will no doubt improve in the summer. Arteta has some faults and is still learning, but he is ambitious, very ambitious.

[selassie]

This seems the most likely outcome. But I don't think we should fail to recognise what we are up against. What City have done over the last 5 years isn't normal.

If we win on Friday then we will be a point behind where the Invincibles were at the same stage. There's a chance we could finish on more points than they did. By any normal standards that should be enough to win you the title. But what City have done over the last few years isn't normal. It's insane that Liverpool got 97 points one year and City still beat them to the title. The only time anyone stopped them was when Liverpool went absolutely mental and won 26 of their first 27 games, drawing the other. Dropping 2 points from a possible 81 is insane. The only season City won the title with fewer than 90 points was 2 years ago when they got 86, but no-one was really pushing them - Utd came 2nd with 74. They have been an absolute machine over the last 5 years, and this year they've got Haaland. None of this means we don't have room for improvement, but I don't think City mowing us down would be the abject failure that some* people are trying to paint it as (*mostly people not on here, tbf)

Yep, exactly this Letters.

We are up against a machine, and like you said if Man City were not in the conversation then we would have one hand on the trophy IMO. Our points total so far this season is ridiculous! The amount of games we have won, the consistency of the performances, the quality of the performances with a squad that in my opinion can definitely be improved on without spending oil club money.

We still have it all to play for, but whatever happens, it's been a really good season and pleasing for me especially as i did not see this coming.

[IBK]

Maybe we need to put a reply to all button, because though I was replying to your post, there were several people who shared similar sentiments that I was addressing in my reply ( which I don't think was personal anyway).

Why I picked you in particular to respond to was that in your initial reply you stated clearly that my post suggesting that we had cooled talks for an extension to Mikel's contract was "astonishing" and "crazy", seeing that he is doing a great job. Obviously, as shown in this post you have firmly deduced I want the manger out...but we'll come to this later.

In your initial reply, though you agreed the team bottled it you seemed to absolve the manager of blame, saying subs were 'inconsequential" and saying things like "Arteta was not responsible for Partey having a bad day in the office" suggested to me that you are shifting the "blame" to the players and not their leader the manager, who had set them up properly and given them all they needed to win as evidenced by the 2 nil leads in both matches.

This was obviously my disagreement as both you and me have been here long enough to remember arguments in the AW days of how the "players" were letting AW down", "AW is a proven winner and its the players who don't have the winning mentality" bla bla bla. The point is trying to excise the players performance from that of the manager is a totally unhelpful exercise that has cost us 19 years in the wilderness. That is my opinion and most things I will say are my opinion unless I explicitly say so.

The breathtaking football that got us 2-0 nil ahead in 10 mins was down to Arteta and the team, the shameful retreat that got us back to 2-2 was also down to Arteta and the team.. not sure my reply said anything else.

Now back to me saying we ditch Arteta, kindly point out where I said so IBK? The post you referred to does not indicate we are ditching him (unless you did not read the post nor the story), it says we are not rewarding him with a contract extension till we see how the season goes. Please what is wrong with that? If you remember correctly, AWs last contract extension was signed by these same owners after an FA cup win with a majority of the fans still against it but they said


Look how that went.

So I ask again, how were the sentiments I expressed "astonishing" or "crazy" and where do I try and fanshame you in the rest of my post?

BTW, I do not blame you because theirs a self hating coward lurking in the shadows trying to brew something up to make himself some sort of internet hero.

Those who have followed our debates and his petty vendettas know the same hypocrite was the one who demanded Arteta be sacked earlier this year and unfortunately I responded to him asking him to calm down, then he went all ballistic. A poor weak minded creature pretending to be some sort of He-Man.

Anyway:

I still believe we can win the title.

I still believe we should win the title.

But Arteta needs to get his act together and work on his weaknesses and the teams.

Coming 2nd ( or 3rd ) and wining 1 trophy with only 1 final in 4 years is not enough progress for me.

I will say it a thousand times even if all fans don't feel the same way.

Simple.

Fair enough if you didn't intend to suggest we should ditch our manager (and I too can be guilty of binary overstatement), but in fairness saying lamenting a culture of mediocrity and saying it was good news that PSG are interested in our manager kind of invited this.


I stand by the fact that if there are those who want shot of Arteta - this is IMO astonishing and crazy. I would give him a 2 year extension based on this season - but that is just my opinion based on the progress we have seen. It's not accepting of mediocrity - just an acknowledgment that we have made clear linear progress under him and he should be allowed to finish his project. I disagree with you that we have not seen enough progress under him.


As for your fanshame comment - you wrote saying nothing would have changed if we'd made subs at the right time is a bloody cop out! Pep and Klopp have always shocked us with subs before the half hour limit once they see something isn't quite right...our more experienced former manager who is doing a great job at Villa use to do the same thing too... always believing a team of inexperienced kids will "figure it out" is a bit fanboyish and immature if you ask me.


I remain of the opinion that our fairly wretched performance after going 0-2 up against West Ham had little to do with subs. The subs we made were ineffective, and there is therefore nothing to suggest that this would have changed if the key one - bringing Trossard and Jorginho on - had been made earlier. It's a valid opinion.


And using your own observation, I have never suggested that Arteta is blameless for what happened at Liverpool or West Ham. What I suggested was that he is not to blame for injuries or senior players letting themselves down. This was IMO the most important reason for dropping points at West Ham (although I think that Arteta was more culpable at Anfied for negative subs there that handed the initiative to Liverpool).


FWIW I don't think we will win the league now. In the cold light of day however bar a complete implosion for the rest of the season, I feel this will be down to the fact that anything less than absolute perfection cannot see off Citeh. I am not expecting absolute perfection from our team (at least yet) for the simple reason that I think that this expectation is unrealistic.

[IBK]

Yep, exactly this Letters.

We are up against a machine, and like you said if Man City were not in the conversation then we would have one hand on the trophy IMO. Our points total so far this season is ridiculous! The amount of games we have won, the consistency of the performances, the quality of the performances with a squad that in my opinion can definitely be improved on without spending oil club money.

We still have it all to play for, but whatever happens, it's been a really good season and pleasing for me especially as i did not see this coming.

Yep. Agree with this. It's the Citeh factor that is the difference here and I make no excuses for observing this. Your (and Letters' and LDG's) comments do not prevent me from remaining really disappointed at dropping points after being 0-2 up and cruising in our past 2 games though...

[Marc Overmars]

Yep. Agree with this. It's the Citeh factor that is the difference here and I make no excuses for observing this. Your (and Letters' and LDG's) comments do not prevent me from remaining really disappointed at dropping points after being 0-2 up and cruising in our past 2 games though...

Yeah that’s where the crushing disappointment comes from, the manner of how we may have lost this title. It’s just so careless. Fair enough if we were battering a team and couldn’t break them down but losing a 2 goal lead twice in a row sends out a terrible message.

It reminded me of that Bolton game in 2003 that we also drew 2-2 after going 0-2 up. Felt like the writing was on the wall after that result and I feel exactly the same after watching Sundays events unfold.

[Letters]

I don't think that disappointment - which I also share - is a contradiction to acknowledging that we are up against an absolute machine in City. You have to be basically flawless to get the better of them, the only season someone did was when they were basically flawless for two thirds of the season. It will be disappointing if we make it easy for them but I can't help feeling they'd have mown us down regardless.

[IBK]

I don't think that disappointment - which I also share - is a contradiction to acknowledging that we are up against an absolute machine in City. You have to be basically flawless to get the better of them, the only season someone did was when they were basically flawless for two thirds of the season. It will be disappointing if we make it easy for them but I can't help feeling they'd have mown us down regardless.

Yes they are a machine and its hardly a level playing field at the top or further down the league.

It's nuts that a team that trail us by 4 points are overwhelming favourites for the title now!

What adds to the diappointment though is that if we had won the last 2 games - that were firmly in our grasp - we would have been 8 points ahead of them now - potentially 11 by Saturday. Even conceding 2 games in hand that is proper scoreboard pressure that I think would have seen us over the line.

[Marc Overmars]

I think many would have favoured us to get over the line if we had kept a cushion over City before the head to heads. We cocked up 2 games prior to the meeting in February and we’ve done exactly the same again here. They’ve got our number and will be firmly expected to beat us next week. We will have to play out of our skin to even get a draw.

[Letters]

I think many would have favoured us to get over the line if we had kept a cushion over City before the head to heads. We cocked up 2 games prior to the meeting in February and we’ve done exactly the same again here. They’ve got our number and will be firmly expected to beat us next week. We will have to play out of our skin to even get a draw.

It was a big red flag when they beat us at home. In the first half we went toe to toe with them, silly mistake for the goal but we deserved to get to half time level.
Second half they just cruised past us. They didn't batter us but they're so clinical and we aren't.
You don't lose at home to your rivals and win the title, that's when I felt we lost the title.
But our response to that was fantastic - 7 wins in a row. And that gave us a chance.
But...City just kept winning too because that's what they do at the business end of the season.
I'll be disappointed if we really collapse now, but if we get close to 90 points then you have to say that's been a fantastic effort.