Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[dostoy]

When Pep leaves and IF City want him, will Arteta leave ?

That is the question.

The season is a marathon and its only just started.

What is all this crazy talk of definitely not going to win the league ?

Nobody knows anything at this stage of the season.

[Mac76]

When Pep leaves and IF City want him, will Arteta leave ?

That is the question.


I think he would, yes



The season is a marathon and its only just started.

What is all this crazy talk of definitely not going to win the league ?

Nobody knows anything at this stage of the season.

well we know Haaland and Citeh are looking very strong and that we haven't really done anything to increase our goal tally or change things up - that said as Letters said earlier winnig at Villa was an improverment but then we have the Brighton game where, unlike Pep who would still have gone for the win, Artetas played for the draw after Rice got sent off - if that's the mentaility we're winning nothing

Oh and our midfield is f**ked without Merino and Odegaard (and Rice for the NLD)

[Letters]

It is too early to be that definitive about anything, but it's already quite hard to look past City. They know they have some real competition in us and they don't look like they're in the mood to give us any chance to get ahead of them. I guess the game at The Ethiad will tell us something. Lose that one and, as ridiculous as this sounds so early, even I who am famed for not overreacting to things would be throwing in the towel. Which is what is so shit about the modern game. It shouldn't be this predictable.

[WMUG]

It'll all be different when they're playing Charnock Richard in the extra preliminary round of the FA Vase ##

[Chippy]

Looks like the fixture list is once again favouring City. We play away on Thursday night at Atalanta and Schitty are at home tomorrow night. Wtf!

Will Arteta use fringe players v Atalanta?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Looks like the fixture list is once again favouring City. We play away on Thursday night at Atalanta and Schitty are at home tomorrow night. Wtf!

Will Arteta use fringe players v Atalanta?

You’ve just realised this?

[Chippy]

You’ve just realised this?

Yes, I am a bit slow tbh :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

When Pep leaves and IF City want him, will Arteta leave ?

That is the question.

The season is a marathon and its only just started.

What is all this crazy talk of definitely not going to win the league ?

Nobody knows anything at this stage of the season.

It's a good question. Answer is probably yes, if the gypos can keep getting away with their "fair" play blatant cheating and don't get relegated. Also think Arteta would go. He's not Adams or Wilshere.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cjd5l8ll7zko

Chris Kavanagh proving what we already knew, that he’s weak

I had no choice

Well I’m sure you did feel that way when you had Brighton players screaming at you for a second yellow to cover up for the fact that Veltman had lunged in on Rice, but again if you weren’t so spineless you’d realise that you did very much have a choice. The same way you made the choice not to book Joao Pedro and not to send off Joel Veltman.

Referees that succumb too easily to pressure have no business in the top flight, cheating scum like Veltman and Welbeck have no business in the sport.

[Letters]

"I was just following orders"

That defence worked well for the Nazi's #godwinslaw

There seems to be an obsession with consistency - partly from the fans who demand it. But
a) We don't get that anyway and
b) I'd rather see common sense than "consistency".

Sending a player off should be a last resort. It changes the game. It should be used sparingly.

[HCZ_Reborn]

There’s actually a film coming out about the Nuremberg Trial and about how the army psychologists did regular checks on the defendants to assess their suitability to stand trial. Now Rudolf Hess who flew over to Britain in 1941 and was kept as a prisoner of war until moved back to Germany for the trial, actually feigned amnesia….claimed that he didn’t even remember his wife when she came to visit him (although quickly and conveniently regained his memory)

But what came out was that there was something ingrained in Germans culturally to be obedient and not question authority or orders. But it was more than that, it wasn't that obedience overrode the ethical considerations…the ethical considerations just weren’t there. Rudolf Hoess who was the commandant of Auschwitz, wasn’t a defendant at Nuremberg but he was brought in as a character witness, and under cross examination was completely matter of fact about what he did.
Not in a ranting scene chewing act of villainy, but just very coldly stated the methodical process of exterminating Jews in the most efficient way.


There were those at the trial who tried to deny the extent of their own involvement (like Goering) and some who were still so supportive of Nazi ideology that they proudly boasted about what they did. But there were some like Hoess, who actually couldn’t conceive of having done anything wrong (well that was until just before his execution where he readopted his Catholic faith, and renounced Nazism)

[Letters]

But what came out was that there was something ingrained in Germans culturally to be obedient and not question authority or orders.
Wait...so you're saying I'm German? :unsure:
(One for NQ, there).


While we are here, I don't really see the value in wheeling in these people in their late 90s and prosecuting them 80 years after the fact. Wasn't the recent one some typist or something?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Wait...so you're saying I'm German? :unsure:
(One for NQ, there).


While we are here, I don't really see the value in wheeling in these people in their late 90s and prosecuting them 80 years after the fact. Wasn't the recent one some typist or something?

Unless you’re talking about someone like John Demenjuk (there was a documentary on him on Netflix) I tend to agree. In fact the allies could have put far more Nazis on trial than they did post Second World War, it’s a case of where do you draw the line if Germany is ever going to be able to recover (thus a recognition in part that the war reparations after ww1 did in some way lead to Hitler coming to power).

But if you were a guard at Maunthausen, you probably did some shit you weren’t proud of (or at least shouldn’t be) but you wouldn’t have been there by choice and the fact is you’re going to die soon anyway. The question has to be asked….whats the point.

Even today Sometimes compromises are made and people get away with terrible things, to prevent chaos and potential civil war. A lot of corrupt African dictators are given an off ramp to allow them to retire in exile rather than cause a bloodbath in the street between loyalist and rebel soldiers

[Mac76]

And this has what to do with Arsenal exactly... :shrug:

[HCZ_Reborn]

And this has what to do with Arsenal exactly... :shrug:

Your GW pedant of the year certificate is in the post

[dazthegooner]

Go Smudger https://dailycannon.com/2024/09/alan-smith-harry-kane/

[Mac76]

Go Smudger https://dailycannon.com/2024/09/alan-smith-harry-kane/

Brilliant :)

K***'s lived off dodgy pels and tap-ins his whole career

[Letters]

And this has what to do with Arsenal exactly... :shrug:

Like PL refs, I admit I'm not always that consistent.
When it comes to when I split threads...I dunno, this one is so rambling anyway that it doesn't seem to matter that much if it gets a bit off topic here and there.
I split out your and HCZ's bickering in the prediction thread because it actually made it hard to find the predictions amid all that.
In brief: Meh.

[Letters]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aE6e0TbLJb0

:bow:

Thems were the days!

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aE6e0TbLJb0

:bow:

Thems were the days!


We had quite a superior head to head record against them over those seven seasons 6 wins, 5 draws, 3 defeats

With the exception of a couple of games like when we had Eeyore Stepanovs in defence and lost 6-1 at their place, and we beat them 3-0 at Highbury (I think Ljungberg got his first Arsenal goal in that game) a lot of the games were quite close

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/aE6e0TbLJb0

:bow:

Thems were the days!

I doubt I'll ever enjoy the game more than I did those days....the highs and the lows those games brought me was just crazy :bow:

[Mac76]

I doubt I'll ever enjoy the game more than I did those days....the highs and the lows those games brought me was just crazy :bow:

tbh i was more angry than anything - it wasn't an equal fight, we always got penalised more than Man 'no pels awarded against them at Old Shiteford' Ure and it was the days when they always got as much ET as they needed to get a winner, Ferguson bullied and cheated his way to at least half those titles , it's why i have no respect for him or Man U - Keane should have been in prison for some of his tackles, not collecting medals

[Letters]

I doubt I'll ever enjoy the game more than I did those days....the highs and the lows those games brought me was just crazy :bow:

Same.
I was younger, didn't have my own family so this was quite a big thing in my life - and when you're younger you feel things more deeply anyway.
It was a brilliant rivalry - Spurs were always worth a chuckle but they were more of an annoyance than a serious rival, the Utd games were always the ones I looked for first.

EDIT: And it was before the billionaires came in and started buying up trophies left, right and centre.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My favourite Arsenal season was the 01/02 season (as opposed to the unbeaten season)

I think as good as the unbeaten season was, there was by about March an inevitability about us winning the title, and I think going out of the fa cup and champions league in the space of three days in the unbeaten season was a bit of a bummer.

I was 18 for the 01/02 season….and it felt like a rollercoaster at times from losing 4-2 at home to Charlton and 3-1 at home to Newcastle, to going to Anfield and winning for the first time in almost a decade (playing most of the game with ten men) just before Christmas.

We were pretty rubbish in the champions league but even with that, there was the 3-1 win over Juventus and the 4-1 win over Leverkusen.

Nail biting games like beating Liverpool in the fa cup after being reduced to nine men, beating Chelsea in the final with two of the best goals I’ve seen us score.

Then you have the Pirès lob at Villa Park (without doubt the most nonchalant goal ever scored), the Bergkamp lob against Leverkusen and the Bergkamp spin and shot goal against Newcastle

The Henry double against United and the look of anguish on Barthez’s face as he gifted both of them to him.


All topped off with an otherwise forgettable game at Old Trafford, where there was a certain inevitability (we scored in every league game that season) that we’d find the net and all it took was one mistake from Silvestre and a marauding Ljungberg


“Pushed out by Barthez….Wiltord!!”


I got pissed that night and no mistake

[Letters]

Yeah.

I think up to a point The Invincibles achievement is over-rated. There are such fine lines in football, early in that season it was "The Battle of Old Trafford", 6 inches lower and that penalty goes in and while we might still have finished champions we wouldn't still be talking about that achievement.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah.

I think up to a point The Invincibles achievement is over-rated. There are such fine lines in football, early in that season it was "The Battle of Old Trafford", 6 inches lower and that penalty goes in and while we might still have finished champions we wouldn't still be talking about that achievement.

My favourite game in that season was in a competition where we certainly weren’t invincible and that was the 5-1 game against Inter.

A fairly even first half, re-established the lead early second half ….cagey game for next forty minutes…Henry does Zanetti and scores on the break and then a free for all.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Actually went to a couple of away league games that season, I was up in the stands at Ewood Park, behind the goal where Henry nicked the ball off Brad Friedel, rounded him and slotted home. Referee too stupid to realise that it was a perfectly legitimate goal as Friedel had released the ball and Henry had intercepted micro seconds after it had left his boot. I wonder what VAR would have done, probably would have disallowed the goal and sent Henry off for dangerous play :lol:

[Letters]

I remember that. Perfectly legitimate goal.
Without wishing to go all "NQ", we have a lot of talent in our current squad but IMO no-one anywhere near the level of Bergkamp or Henry.
The stuff they used to do... :wacko:

[Mac76]

Not that I was there to see it but the 1934-35 season deserves a mention, we won the First Division while Spuds were relegated after finishing bottom :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

As I stated to NQ, it’s not a fair comparison because those footballers were extraordinary even by the standards of the time in which they were playing, not just compared to now. I’m not even sure City have players on that level, De Bruyne at his peak potentially up there but other than that.

Our team is more like the late 80s/early 90s under GG, some very good players but no one player really stood out…it was more a collective effort. 1988/1989 a bit like the last couple of seasons sure we had Alan Smith, but we were more likely to get goals from all over the pitch - Merson, Rocastle, Thomas etc.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not that I was there to see it but the 1934-35 season deserves a mention, we won the First Division while Spuds were relegated after finishing bottom :haha:

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/88/52/49/8852491c6a1bcc6776ad6fd91188b1b1.jpg

You sure you weren’t there?

[Letters]

As I stated to NQ, it’s not a fair comparison because those footballers were extraordinary even by the standards of the time in which they were playing, not just compared to now.
Sure.

And I'm definitely not saying football was better back then. I mean, I think in some ways it was - it was more of a sport, less of a business. But in terms of the quality, there were a lot of cloggers back then. But to witness that era with I'd argue two of the GOATs playing in the same team, that's one to bore the kids and grandkids about.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sure.

And I'm definitely not saying football was better back then. I mean, I think in some ways it was - it was more of a sport, less of a business. But in terms of the quality, there were a lot of cloggers back then. But to witness that era with I'd argue two of the GOATs playing in the same team, that's one to bore the kids and grandkids about.

Oh for sure, I just do think there’s always an element of crying for the moon

Both in football and let’s be fair, in every other aspect of life

[Mac76]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/88/52/49/8852491c6a1bcc6776ad6fd91188b1b1.jpg

You sure you weren’t there?

Ha I'm not that old...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ha I'm not that old...

The depressing thing is that I’m almost certainly older now, than that chap was when that picture was taken

[Mac76]

caught up with Sunday's MotD yesterday - in the Villa game, Cash literally picked the ball up after the ref had blown for a FK and ran away with it - did he get yellowed? did he f**k

Meanwhile Rashford got booked (admittedly slightly questionably) for a tackle, then put in another tackle which was a certain booking - did he get a second booking? did he f**k

#onlyArsenal

[WMUG]

Actually went to a couple of away league games that season, I was up in the stands at Ewood Park, behind the goal where Henry nicked the ball off Brad Friedel, rounded him and slotted home. Referee too stupid to realise that it was a perfectly legitimate goal as Friedel had released the ball and Henry had intercepted micro seconds after it had left his boot. I wonder what VAR would have done, probably would have disallowed the goal and sent Henry off for dangerous play :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x73SRjWdrIA

Looking at the replay, I don't think it had left his boot, just his hand.

I don't think you can do that :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah think you’re right about it not getting to Friedel’s boot but the fact is, the referee ruled the ball was still in Friedel’s control well how so? If it’s in the air and it’s intercepted between hand and foot as long as there’s no follow through I can’t see how that’s not legitimate. But the referee I think probably didn’t know what to do, as he’d never seen that before.

I certainly hadn’t :lol:

[Letters]

Best did it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQdSpwVZ2MM

Also disallowed. But why? As soon as the 'keeper throws it and it's in the air, it's in play isn't it?

[WMUG]

I seem to remember a United player (Solskjaer?) doing the same thing soon afterwards, and that got disallowed.

My memory is that they updated the laws soon after to specifically disallow it.

[Letters]

I've seen goals where a 'keeper rolls the ball in front of them, a player hiding behind them nips round and knocks it in to the net and those have been given.
Maybe the issue was that the ball is in the air? To me that's in play so why isn't the goal given? But I think you're right they changed the rule - wasn't there something about hassling the 'keeper when they have the ball?

[HCZ_Reborn]

But rarely enforce Goalkeepers taking an age with goal kicks

I was even getting annoyed with David Raya doing it the other day

[Chippy]

I read today that Odegaard may be out until December at least!

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/news/arsenal-martin-odegaard-injury-nightmare-30121415

And, Saka limped off during the England game feeleing his hammy.

https://dailycannon.com/2024/10/arsenal-saka-england-injury/

:angry:

[The Wengerbabies]

https://x.com/UpFrontPod/status/1844324495500116042

I disagree that Wenger was not a footballing man, he was obsessed but in terms of his achievements at Arsenal it's hard to disagree with Souness here, he got very lucky. When the luck run out he was mediocre at best.

[Letters]

:yawn:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Souness was an appalling football coach, this is a guy tricked into signing a player based on a hoax phone call from someone claiming to be George Weah. He was a disaster at every club because he was more interested in showing off his own “skill” in training sessions.

Guy is a complete moron

[Letters]

Souness was an appalling football coach, this is a guy tricked into signing a player based on a hoax phone call from someone claiming to be George Weah. He was a disaster at every club because he was more interesting in showing off his own “skill” in training sessions.

Guy is a complete moron

:gp:

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/1231146874818361?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v

[Chippy]

I read today that Odegaard may be out until December at least!

https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/news/arsenal-martin-odegaard-injury-nightmare-30121415

And, Saka limped off during the England game feeleing his hammy.

https://dailycannon.com/2024/10/arsenal-saka-england-injury/

:angry:

Now Martinelli has an injury!
https://metro.co.uk/2024/10/14/arsenal-injury-nightmare-worsens-brazilian-star-heads-mri-scan-21790740/?ito=newsnow-feed

We should be able to stop players playing for their countries, it is a joke!

[WMUG]

It seems these days that we only really get injuries when players go away on international duty.

I do wonder what the hell Wenger was doing back in the day.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It seems these days that we only really get injuries when players go away on international duty.

I do wonder what the hell Wenger was doing back in the day.

It was more the kind of players, Henry for instance very rarely got injured. Where as some…Wilshere had ankles made of powder

[Marc Overmars]

I think Arteta places a lot of importance on robustness in a player. While Wenger would just keep players around because he may have liked their technical ability even though a lot of his squad for the second part of his reign were made up of players who were physically well short of the level required.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think Arteta places a lot of importance on robustness in a player. While Wenger would just keep players around because he may have liked their technical ability even though a lot of his squad for the second part of his reign were made up of players who were physically well short of the level required.

Yep, as I say Wilshere was key example of that. Shame really as I can’t remember any English player at Arsenal of his technical ability. But couldn’t stay fit

[Chippy]

Tommy out for another month.

Why didnt we sell this guy in the summer?

He is another wheelchair :(

[Marc Overmars]

Yep I think he will be out the door next summer with Timber and Calafiori establishing themselves.

[dazthegooner]

What happened to Tommy this time? Broken finger nail? :sulk:

[Mac76]

On the plus side it seems the Saka injury isn't serious, that said given the Shaktar game the following week I do hope Arteta does his best to rest him at the weekend

[HCZ_Reborn]

On the plus side it seems the Saka injury isn't serious, that said given the Shaktar game the following week I do hope Arteta does his best to rest him at the weekend

I hope that the Korean peninsular will be reunified in my lifetime.

The chance of either of our hopes coming to pass are probably at the same level of slim to none :lol:

[Mac76]

he has rested him for one or two games lately, I think he may finally be learning...

[Letters]

This is interesting. Anfield '89 but it's the original ITV broadcast with some pre-match build up, half time analysis and even the adverts!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQochYDc6kI

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is interesting. Anfield '89 but it's the original ITV broadcast with some pre-match build up, half time analysis and even the adverts!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQochYDc6kI

I don’t want to piss on your bonfire (but I will) but that’s been on you tube for years


Bobby Robson doesn’t think we will get the 2-0 win

[Letters]

I don’t want to piss on your bonfire (but I will) but that’s been on you tube for years
The first clue was when it said "8 years ago". I can also read.
I wasn't claiming it was new. I just hadn't seen it before, just because something exists that doesn't mean everyone has seen it.
:tiphat:

[dazthegooner]

I don’t want to piss on your bonfire (but I will) but that’s been on you tube for years


Bobby Robson doesn’t think we will get the 2-0 win

Don't think anyone did, I was on holiday in Bognor Regis Butlins on the day and had my Arsenal shirt on was walking along and a Liverpool fans was taking the piss telling me we have no chance. Later on after the match I see him can't remember what I said him too busy celebating but he told me too fook off I was only 14 :( how rude :lol: :scarf:

[Letters]

I remember thinking we had a chance, but that was because I wasn't in to football enough to know how ridiculous that opinion was :lol:
I mean, you never know in football - as that demonstrated - but looking back it seems implausible.
It's funny looking back at how little time is given before and after the game to the coverage - now there would be hours either end.
Obviously now we have endless dedicated channels, ITV were already late for the news :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Don't think anyone did, I was on holiday in Bognor Regis Butlins on the day and had my Arsenal shirt on was walking along and a Liverpool fans was taking the piss telling me we have no chance. Later on after the match I see him can't remember what I said him too busy celebating but he told me too fook off I was only 14 :( how rude :lol: :scarf:

I was 5 so my memory of 26th May 1989 is scant at best shall we say, I only have slightly clearer living memory of the 1990/1991 Title…and I think that was the Arsenal vs Man United game being on television and we had been confirmed champions before the game kicked off because Liverpool had lost.

You’re right, it would have been an exceptionally brave pundit to pick us to win it. We hadn’t won at Anfield in something like ten years, Liverpool hadn’t lost at home by more than a one goal margin in three years. Everyone was backing Liverpool because of Hillsborough, they had the mo given they hadn’t lost since losing at Old Trafford in January. We’d lost at home to Derby and Forest and away at Coventry in that same period. And given we practically would have have had the title won if we’d won both our last two home games (lost to Derby, drew with Wimbledon) we’d have only needed a draw. Although ironically I think needing to win helped us because Liverpool didn’t quite know how to play it, were worried about coming forward too much even at 1-0 down.

[Letters]

I was 5 so my memory of 26th May 1989 is scant at best shall we say
That's the exact amount of consolation we'd have seen it as had we won on the last day but not won the title.


Although ironically I think needing to win helped us because Liverpool didn’t quite know how to play it, were worried about coming forward too much even at 1-0 down.
It actually made for a dull game - not just that we needed to win but by 2 goals. We absolutely couldn't afford to go 1-0 down, that would have been a surely impossible mountain to climb.
Liverpool knew a draw was fine so they didn't want to concede either and then it be "next goal wins". So it was all very cagey.
Obviously the goal spiced things up a bit and the finale speaks for itself.
Still gives me chills watching that goal.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The nearest game I’ve seen to it was away at Bayern Munich where Bayern didn’t really know how to play it when we went there and we ended up winning 2-0 (unfortunately because of the away goal rule 2-0 wasn’t enough)

[Letters]

We did go through a phase of getting thumped in the first leg and then getting a heroic but ultimately futile result in the second :doh:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Edu is leaving the club


https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13248137/edu-arsenal-sporting-director-to-leave-club-with-reason-for-exit-as-yet-unclear

[Letters]

Rrg. And was it the set piece coach who left recently? Does all seem to be falling apart somewhat.

[Marc Overmars]

Not great news considering how closely he has worked with Arteta and how effective the recruitment has been.

It’s all a bit shit right now isn’t it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Dunno. The recruitment process has been at best a mixed bag, summer just gone was an utter shit show. Dont get me wrong, as I say repeatedly I genuinely like Calafiori….very good player I just question the necessity of the purchase given we clearly were working on a tight budget and had to bring money in. Merino? Fuck me he’s really atrocious. And less said about Sterling the better.

We are really lacking in depth in creative areas and we don’t have an out and out striker. That’s borderline negligence

And then you go back a few years, Jesus, Zinchenko, Vieira. You really have to ask yourself how good Edu actually was

[Mac76]

Rrg. And was it the set piece coach who left recently? Does all seem to be falling apart somewhat.

No the set piece coach is still there

[Mac76]

Dunno. The recruitment process has been at best a mixed bag, summer just gone was an utter shit show. Dont get me wrong, as I say repeatedly I genuinely like Calafiori….very good player I just question the necessity of the purchase given we clearly were working on a tight budget and had to bring money in. Merino? Fuck me he’s really atrocious. And less said about Sterling the better.

We are really lacking in depth in creative areas and we don’t have an out and out striker. That’s borderline negligence

And then you go back a few years, Jesus, Zinchenko, Vieira. You really have to ask yourself how good Edu actually was

Jesus single-handedly pulled our collective socks up to challenge for the title the season before last - his injury at the Word Cup unfortunately was a huge set back from which neither he or Arsenal have ever really recovered

obvs i agree 100% with Zin but that will have been an Arteta buy

And with Vieira I can see what they saw in him but for one reason or another it didn't work out

I do actually think we needed to strengthen the defence - look at how we're still struggling at LB for example

I think Merino was a response to Partey being more or less written off but now he's come back, is fit and playing well so that makes Merino look a little surplus to requirements but he's not as bad as you say.

The main failing, which I place at Arteta's door more than Edu, is failing to buy more firepower up front

Sterling is not a bad loan to add depth but we needed an additional goalscorer

[Mac76]

Not great news considering how closely he has worked with Arteta and how effective the recruitment has been.

It’s all a bit shit right now isn’t it.

Edu has always felt a bit weak IMO

I hope they recruit a very football-wise person who's capable of driving a hard deal and standing up to Arteta, rather than another yes-man

[HCZ_Reborn]

No the set piece coach is still there

Yeah was going to say, Nicholas Jover is still here

From what I can gather. Wilshere and Edu have left and that’s it.

Apparently the parents of Max Dowman who is supposed to be our next wonder kid, were upset over Wilshere departure because of good personal relationship between them, but people up and leave and get new jobs for all sorts of reasons.


Edu has been with us five years, it’s just possible that both he and the club have decided to go in different directions and it’s no bad thing to shake things up a bit.


This isn’t directed at you by the way, or indeed anyone else. I think the media like to create Drama though.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Jesus single-handedly pulled our collective socks up to challenge for the title the season before last - his injury at the Word Cup unfortunately was a huge set back from which neither he or Arsenal have ever really recovered

obvs i agree 100% with Zin but that will have been an Arteta buy

And with Vieira I can see what they saw in him but for one reason or another it didn't work out

I do actually think we needed to strengthen the defence - look at how we're still struggling at LB for example

I think Merino was a response to Partey being more or less written off but now he's come back, is fit and playing well so that makes Merino look a little surplus to requirements but he's not as bad as you say.

The main failing, which I place at Arteta's door more than Edu, is failing to buy more firepower up front

Sterling is not a bad loan to add depth but we needed an additional goalscorer

I think looking back at Jesus’ contribution to our title challenge, I think that claim is to say the least somewhat overstated

Jesus did ok for sure, but even at the beginning it was laughable how many chances he missed, and we were fortunate to have a triumvurate of Martinelli, Odegaard and Saka to help us.

As much as you won’t admit it, Zinchenko was also quite instrumental in making Martinelli a better player, in that Martinelli was operating in more space as a result of that. I think Calafiori when fit will provide just as much benefit to Martinelli without the defensive fuck ups and giving the ball away under no pressure.

I think Vieira always never looked physically strong enough for the premier league, always found it weird how someone reasonably short didn’t have a particularly good centre of gravity. I think technically very good, but never really showed much outside of pre-season games.

There aren’t many great out and out strikers, we don’t play a system where we employ a target man…in some ways might be better if we did…because I think Havertz is good with his head. I think ultimately you can see that Arteta wants to have the similar interchangeable front three that Liverpool had under Klopp and I must say I like that but it only works when you don’t try that ridiculous inverted full back system.

Sterling is completely and utterly burnt out, City knew this when they sold him to Chelsea I’m sure. He’s lost his electric pace and doesn’t have the strength to compensate.

[IBK]

Edu is leaving the club


https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/13248137/edu-arsenal-sporting-director-to-leave-club-with-reason-for-exit-as-yet-unclear

Thia is worrying news. Edu has been a key part of our renaissance, and by all accounts works very well with Arteta and Josh Kroenke. More than that, it's strange that he would decide to leave if we are (as we all thought) on the brink of success. We seem to have lost our lustre this season, and this news won't help at all.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Thia is worrying news. Edu has been a key part of our renaissance, and by all accounts works very well with Arteta and Josh Kroenke. More than that, it's strange that he would decide to leave if we are (as we all thought) on the brink of success. We seem to have lost our lustre this season, and this news won't help at all.

I don’t know what he’s actually like, but in that Amazon documentary I think Josh Kroenke came across like a moron, someone sent out to us to get him out of the way by his father.


As for Edu I thought it was hilarious when talking about signing Tomiyasu when his own white board showed we had loads of options at right back already


Again don’t want to go on about what is only a Documentary, but I somehow strongly doubt that Edu leaving has anything to do with the last three league games.

[Letters]

his injury at the Word Cup
Is Scrabble one of the events at that ;)

[Letters]

No the set piece coach is still there

Ah. I read something about some coach leaving. I think it was this.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/15/jonas-eidevall-resigns-arsenal-head-coach

So... :shrug: :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ah. I read something about some coach leaving. I think it was this.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2024/oct/15/jonas-eidevall-resigns-arsenal-head-coach

So... :shrug: :lol:

Yeah he’s the women’s coach. I have zero interest in women’s football and I knew that.


I tried with it, I watched the World Cup final last year, but it was so slow, so lacking technically I just got bored


I actually genuinely think the goalmouth in the womens game could do with being made smaller, in both height and width. I’ve just seen so many goals where the goalkeeper lacks the height even outstretched to get to the ball.

[IBK]

I don’t know what he’s actually like, but in that Amazon documentary I think Josh Kroenke came across like a moron, someone sent out to us to get him out of the way by his father.


As for Edu I thought it was hilarious when talking about signing Tomiyasu when his own white board showed we had loads of options at right back already


Again don’t want to go on about what is only a Documentary, but I somehow strongly doubt that Edu leaving has anything to do with the last three league games.

I didn't say it was. The point I was making is that by and large Edu and Arteta have made a good team in advancing our club in recent years, and Edu leaving will inevitably be de-stabilising and perhaps damaging. Arteta seems to have been a bit myopic in the Summer transfer business, and I can't see that the departure of a sporting director whom as far as we know the manager trusts will be helpful.

[dazthegooner]

Just seen this.
Garlick influence

When Edu came in, Arsenal were lacking “football men” in the boardroom. The majority of those running the club were more focused on finances and commercial deals than the pitch. Edu changed that.

Richard Garlick is a football man.

He spent over 8 years at West Brom before becoming the Premier League’s Director of Football. Garlick’s LinkedIn profile outlines his history in the game:

I held a variety of positions, including Legal Director, Club Secretary, Sporting and Technical Director and Director of Football Administration. I was appointed to the Board of Directors in 2010.

Responsible for all football administration matters at WBA and led on negotiations with players, intermediaries, clubs, head coaches and senior football staff.

The feeling at the club could now be that with a football man at the helm, we no longer need Edu.

Previously the man at the top of the tree (Vinai, Ivan), were business first. Meanwhile Garlick has all the skills of Edu and more!

We may well see Garlick absorb Edu’s roles into his own job, and then offset some of the commercial minded roles to Juliet Slott., the clubs Chief Commercial Officer.

That would see us focused on the football from the very top, rather than commercial first then football.

This does not mean garlic has pushed Edu out. More than the leadership structure has been potentially reviewed and a decision made that you do not need two people (Edu and Garlick) with a similar skill set capable of fulfilling a similar role.

[IBK]

Just seen this.
Garlick influence

When Edu came in, Arsenal were lacking “football men” in the boardroom. The majority of those running the club were more focused on finances and commercial deals than the pitch. Edu changed that.

Richard Garlick is a football man.

He spent over 8 years at West Brom before becoming the Premier League’s Director of Football. Garlick’s LinkedIn profile outlines his history in the game:

I held a variety of positions, including Legal Director, Club Secretary, Sporting and Technical Director and Director of Football Administration. I was appointed to the Board of Directors in 2010.

Responsible for all football administration matters at WBA and led on negotiations with players, intermediaries, clubs, head coaches and senior football staff.

The feeling at the club could now be that with a football man at the helm, we no longer need Edu.

Previously the man at the top of the tree (Vinai, Ivan), were business first. Meanwhile Garlick has all the skills of Edu and more!

We may well see Garlick absorb Edu’s roles into his own job, and then offset some of the commercial minded roles to Juliet Slott., the clubs Chief Commercial Officer.

That would see us focused on the football from the very top, rather than commercial first then football.

This does not mean garlic has pushed Edu out. More than the leadership structure has been potentially reviewed and a decision made that you do not need two people (Edu and Garlick) with a similar skill set capable of fulfilling a similar role.

I hope you're right...

[dazthegooner]

I hope you're right...

Was a piece on 'She wore a yellow ribbon'

[Letters]

Yeah he’s the women’s coach. I have zero interest in women’s football and I knew that.


I tried with it, I watched the World Cup final last year, but it was so slow, so lacking technically I just got bored


I actually genuinely think the goalmouth in the womens game could do with being made smaller, in both height and width. I’ve just seen so many goals where the goalkeeper lacks the height even outstretched to get to the ball.

I probably just saw the clickbait headline about an Arsenal coach leaving and thought it was something important.
I don't mind the women's game but I do tire of the relentless push to pretend it's the same as the men's when it just isn't.
And we've had the discussion about smaller goals on here. It makes sense up to a point, but WMUG made a good point about it affecting the grass roots game where you're not going to readily have different size goal frames handy. But not a discussion I can pretend to care about that much.

[IBK]

I probably just saw the clickbait headline about an Arsenal coach leaving and thought it was something important.
I don't mind the women's game but I do tire of the relentless push to pretend it's the same as the men's when it just isn't.
And we've had the discussion about smaller goals on here. It makes sense up to a point, but WMUG made a good point about it affecting the grass roots game where you're not going to readily have different size goal frames handy. But not a discussion I can pretend to care about that much.

I agree 100% with the constant headlines accross all media that relate to Arsenal that make you look, and then realise its a headline about the womens' team. If I had nothing else to do and Arsenal women were playing a big game I would probably watch them - just because of club allegiance. But not really very bothered...

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

So it seems the last of the people responsible for overruling Emery and going with stats instead (the Pepe deal) is going.

As for me, baring Odegaard (who obviously had a test run before joining us), Partey is the only deal he should be proud of. I'm giving Saliba deal to whoever our scouts were in France and the immediate impact Jesus and Zinchenko made to us clearly belongs solely to Arteta as those were players he worked with before, so he clearly identified them himself.

He more than anyone messed up the Mudryk deal and made us a bit of a laughing stock for a while before the joke turned out to be Chelsea.

TBF I'd still rate him over the previous guy that had the job (I think that was Raul or was it Sven?) and in general I think the club is doing better than the late years of Wenger and the Gazidis partnership.

I'd actually love it if another ex player of ours could come and take the job, though I can't think of anyone currently in an executive position in any other club.

Oh well, see you later Edu.

[dazthegooner]

Apparently according to Teamtalk PSG are going to bid £80m for Saliba and it will be hard for us to say no... £80m think Teamtalk need to do some transfer market research maybe at a 1 before the 8 then we might be tempted (Not saying that Saliba would actually go for that but still).

[HCZ_Reborn]

So it seems the last of the people responsible for overruling Emery and going with stats instead (the Pepe deal) is going.

As for me, baring Odegaard (who obviously had a test run before joining us), Partey is the only deal he should be proud of. I'm giving Saliba deal to whoever our scouts were in France and the immediate impact Jesus and Zinchenko made to us clearly belongs solely to Arteta as those were players he worked with before, so he clearly identified them himself.

He more than anyone messed up the Mudryk deal and made us a bit of a laughing stock for a while before the joke turned out to be Chelsea.

TBF I'd still rate him over the previous guy that had the job (I think that was Raul or was it Sven?) and in general I think the club is doing better than the late years of Wenger and the Gazidis partnership.

I'd actually love it if another ex player of ours could come and take the job, though I can't think of anyone currently in an executive position in any other club.

Oh well, see you later Edu.

Wait? You’re literally still butthurt on the Mudryk deal. I have a clear memory of that time, I don’t remember anyone considering us a laughing stock and all I remember was you having a meltdown over it….because something something prestige.

[Mac76]

Is Scrabble one of the events at that ;)

:lol:

[Mac76]

sounds like it wasn't happy families behind the scenes:

"...the reason for his departure is due to ‘internal disagreements over the line to follow for the future of Arsenal, which arose amid a long-term strategic review of the club.’

Sources say that Edu holds ‘opposing positions to other leading figures at Arsenal about the next steps for the development of Arsenal’ and in order not to ruin his ‘fantastic’ relationship with the club, decided to leave."

https://www.teamtalk.com/arsenal/true-reasons-behind-edu-exit-arsenal-revealed-bombshell-nottingham-forest-links-are-clarified

[dazthegooner]

Well it's official https://www.arsenal.com/news/edu-gaspar-resigns-sporting-director

[IBK]

On reflection I am not liking this departure.

Stability and continuity are very important for any football club, and we more than any have experienced what happens when it is not there. Edu has been a big part of our transformation since Arteta's arrival (as well as recruiting him), and until yesterday, we were seen as a settled club, with Arsenal DNA (Edu was an Invincible after all), and a clear and effective plan for sustained success. This is important for player recruitment as much as anything else.

I am not saying that things should never change, but the optics and circumstances of Edu's departure ring alarm bells. This was clearly not something that was planned for, and took the club by surprise. Further, it is decidedly odd that just as (we all thought), we were close to fulfillment of a staged plan to get back to the top, our sporting director chooses to leave.

By all accounts Edu was Arteta's friend and ally. A bit like David Dein with Wenger. And we all saw how things eventually came off the rails once Wenger no longer had someone he trusted to help guide his approach.

It's difficult to see this news as anything other than a destabilising factor. We can debate Edu's role in signings all we like, but after Arteta's arrival it is difficult to see their partnership as anything other than successful. I think Arsenal will have to work hard to ensure that Edu's departure does not have damaging repercussions.

[HCZ_Reborn]

On reflection I am not liking this departure.

Stability and continuity are very important for any football club, and we more than any have experienced what happens when it is not there. Edu has been a big part of our transformation since Arteta's arrival (as well as recruiting him), and until yesterday, we were seen as a settled club, with Arsenal DNA (Edu was an Invincible after all), and a clear and effective plan for sustained success. This is important for player recruitment as much as anything else.

I am not saying that things should never change, but the optics and circumstances of Edu's departure ring alarm bells. This was clearly not something that was planned for, and took the club by surprise. Further, it is decidedly odd that just as (we all thought), we were close to fulfillment of a staged plan to get back to the top, our sporting director chooses to leave.

By all accounts Edu was Arteta's friend and ally. A bit like David Dein with Wenger. And we all saw how things eventually came off the rails once Wenger no longer had someone he trusted to help guide his approach.

It's difficult to see this news as anything other than a destabilising factor. We can debate Edu's role in signings all we like, but after Arteta's arrival it is difficult to see their partnership as anything other than successful. I think Arsenal will have to work hard to ensure that Edu's departure does not have damaging repercussions.

Ultimately, in football as in all walks of life…people change jobs. I think any suggestion of tension seems to be purely speculative. What appears more likely is that Edu got headhunted and made an offer he couldn’t refuse, being paid more to take on a more influential role.
Is it desirable? No but for a club like Arsenal it shouldn’t be that much of an issue. Dein’s departure was acrimonious because there was a clear dividing line between him and Hill-Wood over selling shares to KSE. What should not be allowed to happen is for Arteta to do what Wenger did and use the power vaccum to grab more responsibility and influence at the club

[Letters]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/603764458841399

:d

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/arsenal-investigate-kit-man-mark-bonnick-over-antisemitic-tweets-8fvh82z6b

Won’t lie, when I first saw this story I expected the perpetrator to be Afro Carribbean or Muslim South Asian (where antisemitism is at its most prevalent). But in fact sounds like a progressive lefty who somehow thinks conspiracy tropes against Jews is fine and Hamas are the good guys.

To be perfectly honest this kind of rot is likely shared by at least a plurality of the Arsenal fan base and Islington community

From my point of view it’s up to the club whether they take action or not, but if he’d made the same comments about Muslims or the black community his feet wouldn’t touch the ground

[Mac76]

https://www.facebook.com/reel/603764458841399

:d

:gp:

[Mac76]

https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/arsenal-investigate-kit-man-mark-bonnick-over-antisemitic-tweets-8fvh82z6b

Won’t lie, when I first saw this story I expected the perpetrator to be Afro Carribbean or Muslim South Asian (where antisemitism is at its most prevalent). But in fact sounds like a progressive lefty who somehow thinks conspiracy tropes against Jews is fine and Hamas are the good guys.

To be perfectly honest this kind of rot is likely shared by at least a plurality of the Arsenal fan base and Islington community

From my point of view it’s up to the club whether they take action or not, but if he’d made the same comments about Muslims or the black community his feet wouldn’t touch the ground

You subscribe to the Times then?

[HCZ_Reborn]

No but the article was not behind a paywall yesterday when I posted it. Nothing against the Times but I don’t pay for any subscription.

[Letters]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mIPUhma5L8E

More tears.

Although...the point about blocking the 'keeper is kind of valid.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/mIPUhma5L8E

More tears.

Although...the point about blocking the 'keeper is kind of valid.

So I kind of half agree with this guy

Firstly it is a joke that we’ve spent the amount we have and have to rely on set piece goals as a weapon so often

Secondly, I have wanted goals against us chalked off when the goalkeeper is blocked off.

What I resent though is that people are cross about this stuff suddenly because it’s Arsenal, when the shoe was on the other foot…we were accused of being weak mentally etc.

I still think we’d have a decent set piece routine even without the shithousing

[Letters]

What I resent though is that people are cross about this stuff suddenly because it’s Arsenal, when the shoe was on the other foot…we were accused of being weak mentally etc.
This.

For years it's been "Arsenal are soft. They don't like it up 'em. It's a man's game" etc, etc.
Now it's all "Waah! Arsenal are cheating! No fair!"

Oh piss off! That said, referees could become more vigilent. And we are becoming a bit too reliant on this sort of thing.

[Letters]

Apparently we have now scored 88 league goals in 2024.
A club record in the PL.
A bit counterintuitive when we often seem to struggle to score.
I guess we’ve handed out a few thumpings

[HCZ_Reborn]

Apparently we have now scored 88 league goals in 2024.
A club record in the PL.
A bit counterintuitive when we often seem to struggle to score.
I guess we’ve handed out a few thumpings


We don’t always tend to have a consistent distribution of goals. Although I think there has only been five occasions where we failed to score in this calendar year.


We’re also on track to have incurred the fewest defeats in a calendar year going back to 2004 (when we also lost 7 games in all competitions)

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.arsenal.com/news/mega-quiz-every-arsenal-player-2000s

I got 87 out of 128

[Letters]

Lovely Carol service this year

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/14nXDwdXaN/?mibextid=wwXIfr

[HCZ_Reborn]

We’ve played 50 games in all competitions in the calendar year 2024

We won 34 drew 9 and lost 7

We scored 114 goals
We conceded 36 goals


We played 26 games at home
We played 24 games away


Our record at home was 20 wins 4 draws and 2 defeats

Our record away from home was 14 wins 5 draws and 5 defeats



Our league record in this calendar year was 26 wins 7 draws 3 defeats


Our record at home was 14 wins 3 draws and 1 defeats

Our record at home was 12 wins 4 draws and 2 defeats


We kept 24 clean sheets from 50 in all competitions


18 clean sheets from 36 in the premier league

[Letters]

2024 Calendar Year Champions :bow:

[Mac76]

2024 Calendar Year Champions :bow:

:trophy:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

2024 Calendar Year Champions :bow:

And we won nothing....we were not even invited to the annual charity ball :bow:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Like most stats it’s largely meaningless but it states that we a) are hard to beat and b) there are goals in this team

I’m far from impressed with Arteta and we clearly need bolstering up front as well as to make tactical adaptations but in the unlikely event that Arteta does fuck off, a new coach is not inheriting a car crash they just need to make a few adaptations to improve what’s already there

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1kmn7jjvkjo

:rolleyes:

[Marc Overmars]

Honestly feel like there should be verified ID checks to use a social media platform. Either that or a small monthly or annual payment. That should filter out the faceless cretins.

[Letters]

You had me at "GW monthly subscription" :cool:

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c1kmn7jjvkjo

:rolleyes:

I saw that yesterday. My feeling is that I don’t think it’s especially helpful that people were showing screenshots of the abuse on social media. It goes without saying (or at least it should) that people sending those kind of messages are utter and complete wrong uns.

Unfortunately for many it’s seen as fair game, I’ve seen the abuse given to Robbie Keane’s wife because he managed Hapoel Tel-Aviv from Irish antisemites. But there you have a country where its political leadership almost seems to encourage such behaviour. Especially that grotesque little leprechaun who calls himself their president.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/pep-guardiola-wife-man-city-34473675

If only he'd confided in his best friend Arteta about having marital problems....maybe then he'd had foreseen the implosion and be better prepared to take advantage.

Marriage/seperation isn't easy, I wish both of them the best.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/pep-guardiola-wife-man-city-34473675

If only he'd confided in his best friend Arteta about having marital problems....maybe then he'd had foreseen the implosion and be better prepared to take advantage.

Marriage/seperation isn't easy, I wish both of them the best.

I’ll be honest, I really don’t like Guardiola. He comes across as a passive agressive bully and a lot of the unpleasant traits I see in Arteta, I see in Guardiola. Though I’ve never even seen Arteta publicly berate his players in front of the camera (yes there’s the collective bollocking in the dressing room but he never singles anyone out) the way Guardiola has at times.

If his home life was anything like that, I’d say the wife has done well to get out of the situation

[HCZ_Reborn]

Before Letters decides to come on with his “but you don’t really know what X is like” yes it’s speculative but he comes across as a smug, superior and controlling arsehole (Guardiola that is). I think Klopp always seemed to my mind to understand that these players were still essentially boys and that he could be a father figure to his players. Guardiola is more like a shitty uncle that you’ve been made to work for.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/hltco/status/1879140907867664564?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

Sulzeer Campbell trolling Spurs fans

[IBK]

Wow - quite a piss take!

[HCZ_Reborn]

I see Twitter has taken to blaming Arsenal Fan TV for things again, this time the abusive messages sent to Havertz’s wife

I mean they are all a bunch of ill bred Police Academy caricatures who have as much insight as a dog when staring at its own reflection. But let’s be fair the guy who tried to kidnap his ex partner isn’t associated with that channel anymore, and nothing these clowns say amounts to death threats against players or their wives.


If I was a season ticket holder like these guys, I think the last thing I’d want to do is performatively scream into a microphone at the end of a game, I’d rather just sink a couple of pints and go home and have a kip. But each to their own

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://x.com/hltco/status/1879140907867664564?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

Sulzeer Campbell trolling Spurs fans

:lol: To think I advised a mate of mine to move from Samsung to Pixel about 3 days earlier.

....delicate whites and Strong Reds :good:

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c8r5gz4z5ppo

What utter pointless stupidity. 17 year old is not quite an adult but it’s old enough to have the capacity to think before you act. What was this moron possibly hoping to achieve. I border on being a free speech absolutist but making death threats against people regardless of whether you intend to carry them out or not is like incitement to violence one of those areas where it crosses the line so I have no sympathy for him being arrested. Though I’m old fashioned enough to think that a good clip round the ear and a few hours of unpaid back breaking labour would set him straight

[Letters]

Unfortunately the internet and the anonymity it affords (or not in this case, but certainly the distance) emboldens people to the point they seem to think they can just say what they like.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Unfortunately the internet and the anonymity it affords (or not in this case, but certainly the distance) emboldens people to the point they seem to think they can just say what they like.

I tend to think if you send death threats to people that are well known, it usually doesn’t go well for you in terms of remaining anonymous.

Brainless here didn’t seem to factor that into his game of keyboard warrior

[Letters]

Submitted without comment.

Stats for games which Michael Oliver has refereed for teams he's officiated more than 10 times.

https://i.ibb.co/fFJWjgb/Michael-Oliver.jpg (https://ibb.co/MSdHFvb)

[HCZ_Reborn]

To be honest I don’t want to get to bogged down with Michael Oliver, he’s absolutely a compromised referee but it wasn’t Oliver who sent off Declan Rice for having the ball kicked at him. It wasn’t Oliver who acting on orders from VAR sent off William Saliba, it wasn’t Oliver who didn’t award us a penalty and chalked off a goal for us against Liverpool for no reason. It wasn’t Oliver who gave a non penalty for a clash of heads where Saliba got the ball. And it wasn’t Oliver who chalked off the winner against Aston Villa for a phantom handball.


Individually I could begrudgingly accept these decisions, collectively it pisses me off.


We’ve always had referees who take the piss and allow our opponents to get away with murder and us with nothing. But never before this season have I honestly felt that I cannot trust in any league game that we won’t end up dropping points because of a contentious decision by a referee


Now I accept that we shouldn’t put ourselves in a position to be the victim of fine margins so often (for example we shouldn’t have allowed Villa back in the game for that handball call to be crucial). But let’s be fair it’s a double edged sword, because we aren’t able to kill off games (we haven’t scored more than twice in the last four league games) we are putting ourselves in the hands of referees.

[Niall_Quinn]

This is actually worth starting a thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scjy2gXyjgU

I can't believe I never saw this before. Quite simply one of the bet documentaries ever made, and I'm not sure they understood at the time how good it is when you can now compare it to the utterly fake game we have to put up with.

That was football lads. If you are too young to have been there and have grown upon Sky's diet of spectacular nothingness then I really feel for you. But you have at least the consolation that the game you love now was once based on something that was actually real.

Also, bringing it bang into the discussion, listen to that ref - was it a foul, was it offside, did he get a touch? No, no, yes. Then GOAL. Makes you wonder what sort of corruption (because we know non-corruption is always an option) the modern refs feast on.

Really recommend you watch this one if you haven't seen it already.

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is actually worth starting a thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scjy2gXyjgU

I can't believe I never saw this before. Quite simply one of the bet documentaries ever made, and I'm not sure they understood at the time how good it is when you can now compare it to the utterly fake game we have to put up with.

That was football lads. If you are too young to have been there and have grown upon Sky's diet of spectacular nothingness then I really feel for you. But you have at least the consolation that the game you love now was once based on something that was actually real.

Also, bringing it bang into the discussion, listen to that ref - was it a foul, was it offside, did he get a touch? No, no, yes. Then GOAL. Makes you wonder what sort of corruption (because we know non-corruption is always an option) the modern refs feast on.

Really recommend you watch this one if you haven't seen it already.

I actually watched this just before Christmas

What the incident you described reminded me of is how refs lacked the backbone to go against Ferguson at Old Trafford, and Liverpool had similar reputation for intimidating match officials. But the point is none of the players knew what they were appealing for, they just didn’t like going a goal down…that wasn’t meant to happen.


In that season they miked up David Ellery when Millwall played Arsenal (for a documentary or something). And Tony Adams called him a “cheating cunt”. And Ellery in his usual pompous school master style is giving Adams a dressing down, saying I don’t care if you swear at me but I won’t have you question my integrity and Adams in a weirdly high pitch voice responds I’m just frustrated.

Cameras rolling Ellery is in his dressing room at full time, and George Graham comes in and is about to go apeshit on him (don’t really know why Arsenal had won 2-1 in the end) sees that the cameras are rolling and excuses himself

[Niall_Quinn]

I actually watched this just before Christmas

What the incident you described reminded me of is how refs lacked the backbone to go against Ferguson at Old Trafford, and Liverpool had similar reputation for intimidating match officials. But the point is none of the players knew what they were appealing for, they just didn’t like going a goal down…that wasn’t meant to happen.


In that season they miked up David Ellery when Millwall played Arsenal (for a documentary or something). And Tony Adams called him a “cheating cunt”. And Ellery in his usual pompous school master style is giving Adams a dressing down, saying I don’t care if you swear at me but I won’t have you question my integrity and Adams in a weirdly high pitch voice responds I’m just frustrated.

Cameras rolling Ellery is in his dressing room at full time, and George Graham comes in and is about to go apeshit on him (don’t really know why Arsenal had won 2-1 in the end) sees that the cameras are rolling and excuses himself

I'm fully aware of the Liverpool effect.

What I mean is, when it really counted, that ref decided to do his job. We can give him some credit for that can we? Actually I remeber I was always okay when Hutchinson got one of our games. Ellery, of course, nobody would ever claim he was a good ref - not without a smirk at least.

It was just nice to see a ref that put football first, on that one occasion. And if I asked people, who reffed the game between Arsenal and Liverpool in 89, I bet few know.

Thing about that documentary is it's an irritable reminder about how much football was back then, how much better the player were, how much better the attitude was, how much better the relationship with the fans was, how much better society in general was, how much better the media was, how much better EVERYTHING was. Absolutely everything.

Try and deny it. We've gone backwards in all respects.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just wish I could go back and live then again. Impossible, nature of the game, but we have been so WEAK in terms of letting scum capture our lives. There's literally nothing to commend where we live now. Not one single thing. Name just one and prove me wrong.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I do deny it. I think it was just different. You transport that 1989 squad 35 years in the future and they wouldn’t cope in the premier league, simply because of the physical fitness levels required.

And as I say just because we weren’t at the stage we are now, doesn’t mean football was any less of a commodity. It wasn’t just division one it was Barclays division one. Liverpool were the red machine because of their spending power relative to other clubs, like man United in the premier league era, they had a truckload of southern fans who’d never been to Liverpool in their lives.

You had other attempts to buy success like with Robert Maxwell and Oxford United


The main difference was the Match showed league games on ITV once a week and there wasn’t this top 4 bollocks. But trying to claim it was this golden age where money didn’t influence the game is as I’ve said taking a rose tinted view of it

[Niall_Quinn]

I do deny it. I think it was just different. You transport that 1989 squad 35 years in the future and they wouldn’t cope in the premier league, simply because of the physical fitness levels required.

And as I say just because we weren’t at the stage we are now, doesn’t mean football was any less of a commodity. It wasn’t just division one it was Barclays division one. Liverpool were the red machine because of their spending power relative to other clubs, like man United in the premier league era, they had a truckload of southern fans who’d never been to Liverpool in their lives.

You had other attempts to buy success like with Robert Maxwell and Oxford United


The main difference was the Match showed league games on ITV once a week and there wasn’t this top 4 bollocks. But trying to claim it was this golden age where money didn’t influence the game is as I’ve said taking a rose tinted view of it

Bullshit. They'd annihilate every last team on this planet. As would ANY team from that league back then. Because it would be men against queers. And you might castigate me for the pejoratives, but honestly, can you imagine any of the so-called stars going up against Steve McMahon? Seriously? You are living in a fantasy made by Sky and the UEFA to explain away the insane fees they charge for people to participate in the peoples game. These modern lot can't even see out a season without replays. They are weak and pathetic. Theyld be destroyed in any sprt that doesn't pander.

The weird thing is, there's a ton of video. You can go back and watch men playing the game. And you can go forwards and watch faggots mincing about. And you claim the prancers would prevail? Explain.

[Niall_Quinn]

Another point is this. eventually you have to accept there is a pinnacle to any climb. Or you could instead say the pinnacle in never achievable, in which case everything is substandard.

Well, 89 was an actual pinnacle. Though you had to be there and live through it to understand how the impossible is entirely possible.

We live in a world of braindead, highly paid, "experts" Back then you could drink in the same pub as the players who were heading out on Saturday and they would give you their "non-educated" view. Just because queers don't frequent normal pubs and would never associate with the fans that pay their thoroughly undeserved and unearned wages doesn't mean faggots could ever compete with men. Don't go confusing Timber with Adams. Did you SEE Timber last week, falling over and clutching his face because somebody ran within a yard of him? That's not to say Timber couldn't be a man if he chose to be, but he instead chooses to be a faggot. And in those big monets, when everything is on the line, who are you going to back? men or mincers?

You are kind of proving the point. We couldn't beat Liverpool 2-0 and we'd never beat a bunch of arse bandits. Not so sure. Think we would have roundly spanked their arses and I think they would have liked it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bullshit. They'd annihilate every last team on this planet. As would ANY team from that league back then. Because it would be men against queers. And you might castigate me for the pejoratives, but honestly, can you imagine any of the so-called stars going up against Steve McMahon? Seriously? You are living in a fantasy made by Sky and the UEFA to explain away the insane fees they charge for people to participate in the peoples game. These modern lot can't even see out a season without replays. They are weak and pathetic. Theyld be destroyed in any sprt that doesn't pander.

The weird thing is, there's a ton of video. You can go back and watch men playing the game. And you can go forwards and watch faggots mincing about. And you claim the prancers would prevail? Explain.

I’m not castigating you for the pejoratives, I’m not Mac…I just think as I say you’ve got an emotional attachment to this time period that clouds your judgement. This whole being a real man shtick doesn’t wash, take a Steve McMahon type…yep he was a tough tackler no doubt…but players would just run past him in this day and age leaving him either in the dust or causing him to commit a career ending foul (either his career or the career of the player he’s after) because the speed of the person going past him.

End of the day toughness is more than just a mindset (sure that definitely helps) but these guys on the pitch at that time were drinkers, the kind of people who had beans on toast as a pre match meal…and as long as they could do a cross country run without being sick on themselves they’d be fine to play the game.


Today you have to be an athlete, a mixture of sports science, a fully planned diet…and lifestyle…telling you when to eat, when to shit, when to fuck your missus. A lot of people with talent don’t make it because they don’t have the discipline to switch off and live robotically and repetitively.

Real men vs poofs doesn’t really count for much as an argument weighed against that

[Niall_Quinn]

I’m not castigating you for the pejoratives, I’m not Mac…I just think as I say you’ve got an emotional attachment to this time period that clouds your judgement. This whole being a real man shtick doesn’t wash, take a Steve McMahon type…yep he was a tough tackler no doubt…but players would just run past him in this day and age leaving him either in the dust or causing him to commit a career ending foul (either his career or the career of the player he’s after) because the speed of the person going past him.

End of the day toughness is more than just a mindset (sure that definitely helps) but these guys on the pitch at that time were drinkers, the kind of people who had beans on toast as a pre match meal…and as long as they could do a cross country run without being sick on themselves they’d be fine to play the game.


Today you have to be an athlete, a mixture of sports science, a fully planned diet…and lifestyle…telling you when to eat, when to shit, when to fuck your missus. A lot of people with talent don’t make it because they don’t have the discipline to switch off and live robotically and repetitively.

Real men vs poofs doesn’t really count for much as an argument weighed against that

No, no, no. That was the whole point. You absolutely didn't run past Steve McMahon because held kick you up in the fucking air. That was the point you were making earlier, Ellery would wave play on! Why are you so confident players today would do so well against actual sportsmen, given they have every advantage in a non-contact sport yet STILL can't beat their man? Do you have any ap[preciation of how good Peter Beardsley had to be to become one of the best one-on-one players in the game? It doesn't make sense, I don't care if they are these amazing athletes, they are untalented, simple as. They can't do their jobs and on the rare occasion when one emerges who can (in one match) they suddenly have a 100 mil fee attached.

Okay, I bet there are some players today who could have hacked it (no pun) back in the day because they are that good. Ronaldo, Messi, Bendtner, but come on. One of the est who ever played, Pele, would make Musk blush at the amount of time he entered orbit. Yet he still broke records. Put any of your ultra hyped, ultra fit pussies into his environment and please, at least be honest.

[Niall_Quinn]

And look at their hair. Yes they are total poofs.

[Mac76]

And look at their hair. Yes they are total poofs.

and of course everyone in the good old days had really manly haircuts, right?



https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.gettyimages.com%2Fid%2F7902 3937%2Fphoto%2Fliverpool-fc-footballer-kevin-keegan-at-anfield-on-july-31-1975-in-liverpool-england.jpg%3Fs%3D612x612%26w%3Dgi%26k%3D20%26c%3D 5h8nuxoQFoh0BF74PPRJ0h8wCeroY2iFiD_wo9gWq9o%3D&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=f164353f1f33eae9dfc72df096c5009a59afce420a2086 80a5ab3f304ea46b2b&ipo=images

[Niall_Quinn]

and of course everyone in the good old days had really manly haircuts, right?



https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.gettyimages.com%2Fid%2F7902 3937%2Fphoto%2Fliverpool-fc-footballer-kevin-keegan-at-anfield-on-july-31-1975-in-liverpool-england.jpg%3Fs%3D612x612%26w%3Dgi%26k%3D20%26c%3D 5h8nuxoQFoh0BF74PPRJ0h8wCeroY2iFiD_wo9gWq9o%3D&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=f164353f1f33eae9dfc72df096c5009a59afce420a2086 80a5ab3f304ea46b2b&ipo=images

Well I fancied him.

[Mac76]

:lol:

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

and of course everyone in the good old days had really manly haircuts, right?



https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia.gettyimages.com%2Fid%2F7902 3937%2Fphoto%2Fliverpool-fc-footballer-kevin-keegan-at-anfield-on-july-31-1975-in-liverpool-england.jpg%3Fs%3D612x612%26w%3Dgi%26k%3D20%26c%3D 5h8nuxoQFoh0BF74PPRJ0h8wCeroY2iFiD_wo9gWq9o%3D&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=f164353f1f33eae9dfc72df096c5009a59afce420a2086 80a5ab3f304ea46b2b&ipo=imagesSexy bastard.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/the-football-database/images/2/2c/GEORGE.png

He’s no Charlie George

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Can't beat Frank Worthington.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/webimg/QVNIMTE5ODAyMDMy.jpg
Plus, that goal for Bolton is.. wow.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

[Niall_Quinn]

Can't beat Frank Worthington.

Plus, that goal for Bolton is.. wow.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

Saw that guy play. What a player. I think he was 60 at the time and may well have been drinking a whisky and puffing a fag on the pitch (not an actual fag, a cigarette). His passing. LOL. Got the ball, didn't move an inch, then swung his leg and it was right on the boot of whoever he wanted it to be. What a legend. One of the bet players I ever saw live.

Also saw Tony Currie live. Similar. If they did passing stats back then they would have had to create a new measure called a Currie.

They literally didn't move, which puts paid to all the BS about athletic ability, they just got the ball and in a split second put it directly in the danger zone and on a plate.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.coventrycitypics.com/p/439/steve-ogrizovic-coventry-city-goalkeeper-5448352.jpg

Speaking of handsome devils

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/afc_n7k/status/1886917706084986967?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

[Letters]

Thing about that documentary is it's an irritable reminder about how much football was back then, how much better the player were, how much better the attitude was, how much better the relationship with the fans was, how much better society in general was, how much better the media was, how much better EVERYTHING was. Absolutely everything.

Try and deny it. We've gone backwards in all respects.
Nah.
What was actually better was...you. You were young and healthy (probably) and optimistic (possibly).
Now you're old and ill (probably) and deeply cynical about everything (definitely). So you look back on what you see as happier times and declare everything better. I see this all the time on FB. Old people going on and on about how everything used to be so much better. It wasn't.

It wasn't worse either of course, the truth is some things were better, some were worse.

With regards to football. That generation of players wouldn't cut it in the modern game. They might have been "real men" but they were slow and fat and unfit and wouldn't get near enough to the modern players to hack them down. Some of them would make it of course, they'd be brought up in the modern regime. But a lot would be off down the pub and would never get near the top level. And you are cherry picking the best players from yesteryear, ignoring how many utter cloggers there were.

Overall I think football has got worse but not because of the quality of player. The main issues are the money, the blanket coverage, the disconnect between fans and club - the relationship now being very much business and customer. As HCZ highlights, money has always been a thing but Sky and the expansion of the CL have turned it up to 11.

As for society in general. The 80s were a deeply sexist, racist, homophobic time. It might have been great if you were white, male and straight. Less great for black people or the gays. A lot of that is much better now. Other things have got worse - immigration has enriched us in some ways but the level of it is too high and that causes issues. House prices are inaccessible for most people. The internet has brought a lot of benefits and convenience but obviously there are big issues there with kids having access to stuff they shouldn't and cyber bullying. Ironically the multitude ways we have of instantly connecting with people has made people lonelier.

Overall - some things better, some things worse. Hard to quantify it into a definitive about things being better or worse these days.

[Mac76]

Hard to quantify it into a definitive about things being better or worse these days.

some things are better - the smoking ban feels like one of the least heralded but most important steps forward, not least for the NHS but also (and I speak as an ex-smoker) just improving our social experiences by not treading on a carpet of fag butts, or being suffocated in small venues or ofc passively developing cancer

general air quality is better to thanks to (ahem) 'cleaner' fuel but ofc the elephant in the room is climate change which, as you at least are aware, is now getting the point where it's irreversible and makes me particularly glad I'm not any younger than I am, though even in my late 50s I'm far from convinced I'll miss witnessing some of the really bad effects of it

[Letters]

some things are better - the smoking ban feels like one of the least heralded but most important steps forward, not least for the NHS but also (and I speak as an ex-smoker) just improving our social experiences by not treading on a carpet of fag butts, or being suffocated in small venues or ofc passively developing cancer

general air quality is better to thanks to (ahem) 'cleaner' fuel but ofc the elephant in the room is climate change which, as you at least are aware, is now getting the point where it's irreversible and makes me particularly glad I'm not any younger than I am, though even in my late 50s I'm far from convinced I'll miss witnessing some of the really bad effects of it

Wow. You're an older bastard* than I thought (*no offence!).
Agree about the smoking ban, it now feels ridiculous that you could ever smoke in pubs and clubs, on trains and so on. Aside from the obvious health stuff, everything absolutely stank.
Quite nice that people pick up their dog's crap now too.

[Marc Overmars]

The smoking ban is easily one of if not the best change made in my adult lifetime. It was absolutely grim going out to enclosed spaces with so much smoke in the air. Plus it’s a habit that I’ve always hated anyway because my dad was a big smoker and he’d happily puff away at home with me around him. When I grill him about it now he blames a lack of an education on the matter but it seems like a flimsy excuse tbh.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Nah.
What was actually better was...you. You were young and healthy (probably) and optimistic (possibly).
Now you're old and ill (probably) and deeply cynical about everything (definitely). So you look back on what you see as happier times and declare everything better. I see this all the time on FB. Old people going on and on about how everything used to be so much better. It wasn't.

It wasn't worse either of course, the truth is some things were better, some were worse.

With regards to football. That generation of players wouldn't cut it in the modern game. They might have been "real men" but they were slow and fat and unfit and wouldn't get near enough to the modern players to hack them down. Some of them would make it of course, they'd be brought up in the modern regime. But a lot would be off down the pub and would never get near the top level. And you are cherry picking the best players from yesteryear, ignoring how many utter cloggers there were.

Overall I think football has got worse but not because of the quality of player. The main issues are the money, the blanket coverage, the disconnect between fans and club - the relationship now being very much business and customer. As HCZ highlights, money has always been a thing but Sky and the expansion of the CL have turned it up to 11.

As for society in general. The 80s were a deeply sexist, racist, homophobic time. It might have been great if you were white, male and straight. Less great for black people or the gays. A lot of that is much better now. Other things have got worse - immigration has enriched us in some ways but the level of it is too high and that causes issues. House prices are inaccessible for most people. The internet has brought a lot of benefits and convenience but obviously there are big issues there with kids having access to stuff they shouldn't and cyber bullying. Ironically the multitude ways we have of instantly connecting with people has made people lonelier.

Overall - some things better, some things worse. Hard to quantify it into a definitive about things being better or worse these days.

:gp:

Although that’s largely because you’re making all the same arguments I’ve made, perhaps in a more concise way? Well you might think that….i couldn’t possibly comment

[Letters]

:lol: This is one area where we are fairly well aligned.

[HCZ_Reborn]

some things are better - the smoking ban feels like one of the least heralded but most important steps forward, not least for the NHS but also (and I speak as an ex-smoker) just improving our social experiences by not treading on a carpet of fag butts, or being suffocated in small venues or ofc passively developing cancer

general air quality is better to thanks to (ahem) 'cleaner' fuel but ofc the elephant in the room is climate change which, as you at least are aware, is now getting the point where it's irreversible and makes me particularly glad I'm not any younger than I am, though even in my late 50s I'm far from convinced I'll miss witnessing some of the really bad effects of it

Ah the whole ex smoker thing does rather explain your zealotry on the issue, for what it’s worth I support the smoking ban as it exists (I smoke outdoors by choice even at home) but I’m also this far and no further. The idea that giving people a designated outside area to smoke no where near anyone else and that’s going to affect people who don’t want to passive smoke, it’s smoke not radioactive fallout. I don’t object to the plain packaging and the warning labels although I have to say I think it’s absurd that anyone could think for a moment that this would deter anyone.
People ask me why I smoke despite the fact I have partial lung damage from passive smoking as a child (my dad and my grandparents) I give them the same answer Fitz does in Cracker when asked why he smokes, drinks and gambles…”I like it”

I’m all for minimising the risk to others, but there’s a gap between public health and heavy handed nanny state “it’s for your own good” mentality. As someone who works with people addicted to drink, the damage done to other people by alcoholism far outweighs the damage done by someone smoking….but we don’t legislate supermarkets doing special offers on booze.


Ultimately if we are worried about the costs to the health system, than we can simply have it that people who have caused themselves lung issues through smoking….have to pay for treatment like those who cause themselves issues through a high fat and sugar diet.

Ultimately you can encourage people to live healthier is fine (I’m all for teaching about nutrition and having healthier food available in school canteens) but pretending you can force people is a fools game

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://x.com/welbeast/status/1887145495438545239?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

This just depresses me, I don’t think there’s anything to gain from believing the footballing authorities are against us. But I simply don’t remember this kind of messsge coming out when Adebayor sprinted the full length of the Etihad pitch (wasn’t called the Etihad back then) like he was Linford Christie to celebrate in front of Arsenal fans. I’m one of those people who thinks he was a dick to do it, but the fans throwing shit at him were just as bad.


The City fans have been inconsolable since Sunday, they remind me of the Arabs in the Levant and their attitude towards the Jews in 1948….so used to us being their bitch that they simply can’t take it.


But Guardiola?, as classless as he is at times, simply said “that’s nice” when asked about the MLS goal celebration. He didn’t care, and I actually doubt Haaland cared that much…he’s a big boy he realises if you dish it out you have to be prepared to give it back.


Why does the Premier League need to step in like an overprotective mummy and say “don’t you make fun of my special boy”

[Letters]

Yeah. They can fuck ALL the way off with stuff like this.
I also don't believe "they" are out to get us, but I don't remember there being any outcry when Haaland threw the ball at Gabriel after their late equaliser at The Ethiad. Henry running the length of the pitch to score against Spurs and then all the way back to slide in front of their fans is iconic.
Not happy when it happens to us of course but that's football - you dish it out and you have to take some.

[IBK]

Unbelievable. Don't think the league (as opposed to PGML) is out to get us, but f*ck me do the powers that be have a hard on for AFC. This is embarrassing!

[Mac76]

This is IMO why winning something, even if it's the League Cup, is important, we're just being picked on atm as irascable wannabes

Also maybe the club ahould hire an ex-FA / PGMOL guy or something to try to work on them through back-door networks, it feels like we're not being savvy enough somehow

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t think we should be trying to get their respect and affection, like a low self esteem teenage girl does with her alcoholic piece of shit father. We aren’t going to get it, and it’s of no value anyway.

Getting to the final might add some pathos to the season, but ultimately even if we beat Liverpool in the final it’s nice but it’s ultimately worthless, plus the idea of us being some plucky underdog as we were when we beat them in 1987 nauseates me.


But that’s neither here nor there. I’m quite happy for us to have an antagonistic relationship with the authorities to some extent, they are after all the shit under our shoes.

[Mac76]

ultimately even if we beat Liverpool in the final it’s nice but it’s ultimately worthless.

Which, again, is where you're wrong, it will be a huge boost to the club and the players, it will annoy spuds fans (always a good thing), and it might even make the Kroenkes realise they could have more fun days out if they put a bit mroe cash in

[HCZ_Reborn]

Which, again, is where you're wrong, it will be a huge boost to the club and the players, it will annoy spuds fans (always a good thing), and it might even make the Kroenkes realise they could have more fun days out if they put a bit mroe cash in

You really do need to learn the difference between your opinion and what is fact

It’s your contention that the league cup will be a huge boost to the club, how so I ask when the evidence of winning four fa cups in a six year period provides scant evidence of this huge boost you speak of.


If you want to win this trophy, because you think any trophy is better than none. Fine. But when you start broadcasting your opinions as gospel….tad silly

[Mac76]

You really do need to learn the difference between your opinion and what is fact

It’s your contention that the league cup will be a huge boost to the club, how so I ask when the evidence of winning four fa cups in a six year period provides scant evidence of this huge boost you speak of.


That was a different period where there wasn't the same ambition or team spirit which Arteta (despite his many faults) has created, anyone with any basic grasp of psychology woud understand it would enhance the self belief of what is stil a very young team.

Anyway, you just keep camping on here, incessantly countering everyone who happens to disagree with you, it's not like you've anything else to do...

[HCZ_Reborn]

That was a different period where there wasn't the same ambition or team spirit which Arteta (despite his many faults) has created, anyone with any basic grasp of psychology woud understand it would enhance the self belief of what is stil a very young team.

Anyway, you just keep camping on here, incessantly countering everyone who happens to disagree with you, it's not like you've anything else to do...

So the first bit, you haven’t defined how that’s not just your opinion. I could counter with why I disagree but if you’ve decided that your opinion is fact then there’s really not much point

Second bit I’m not sure what that’s relevant to. If it puts you at ease I could talk you through my day so you’re not left worrying that there’s not enough variance to my routine? :lol:

[Chippy]

I read that the players are off to a warm weather training camp. This will hopefully do us good for the final part of the season.

[dazthegooner]

Anthony (uglier than Dowie) Gordon saying “It is important to stay humble” things an e-Jit.

[Niall_Quinn]

The smoking ban is easily one of if not the best change made in my adult lifetime. It was absolutely grim going out to enclosed spaces with so much smoke in the air. Plus it’s a habit that I’ve always hated anyway because my dad was a big smoker and he’d happily puff away at home with me around him. When I grill him about it now he blames a lack of an education on the matter but it seems like a flimsy excuse tbh.

The smoking ban was a key step in getting rid of pubs. In a genuinely libertarian society se could easily have had pubs that allowed smoking and those that chose not to. Forcing people onto the street to smoke was for anti-social, not health purposes. As for the cost to the NHS, smokers and drinkers EASILY cover that, to such an extent the government hasn't gone the whole hog, if they are genuinely serious about health, and banned these drugs like other drugs. Look at the hypocrisy in the arguments of government and the anti-smoking lobby to see the true intentions.

Meanwhile people are poisoned by the water and food and harmed by their medicines, problems with as much if not more impact than recreational drugs. Happily people can take some steps to avoid the poisons in water and food, but don't forget a large segment of the population were on the verge of supporting mandatory "vaccination" with experimental, ineffective yet potentially very dangerous gene therapy treatment. This would have come from a notion it's even government's place to "ban" smoking - which it isn't. If we put up with such things then we aren't adults we are children.

[Niall_Quinn]

It was only last year that smoking was (almost) fully banned in parliament, btw. It's still permitted in one of the clubs at Christmas, though I wonder why when it's against the "law"? Nevertheless, this still makes the smoking ban unlawful. When those who impose it don't adhere to it themselves, it's not a law, it's a decree. There are also clubs in London where you may still smoke a cigar (which I thoroughly approve of of course).

In France people are now starting to ignore these unconstitutional bans. Good for them. In time maybe the British will remember themselves too.

[Letters]

Next time the ref tries to book one of our players...

https://www.tiktok.com/@footyfrenzy247/video/7389968130984004896

:cool:

[Niall_Quinn]

Nah.
What was actually better was...you. You were young and healthy (probably) and optimistic (possibly).
Now you're old and ill (probably) and deeply cynical about everything (definitely). So you look back on what you see as happier times and declare everything better. I see this all the time on FB. Old people going on and on about how everything used to be so much better. It wasn't.

It wasn't worse either of course, the truth is some things were better, some were worse.

With regards to football. That generation of players wouldn't cut it in the modern game. They might have been "real men" but they were slow and fat and unfit and wouldn't get near enough to the modern players to hack them down. Some of them would make it of course, they'd be brought up in the modern regime. But a lot would be off down the pub and would never get near the top level. And you are cherry picking the best players from yesteryear, ignoring how many utter cloggers there were.

Overall I think football has got worse but not because of the quality of player. The main issues are the money, the blanket coverage, the disconnect between fans and club - the relationship now being very much business and customer. As HCZ highlights, money has always been a thing but Sky and the expansion of the CL have turned it up to 11.

As for society in general. The 80s were a deeply sexist, racist, homophobic time. It might have been great if you were white, male and straight. Less great for black people or the gays. A lot of that is much better now. Other things have got worse - immigration has enriched us in some ways but the level of it is too high and that causes issues. House prices are inaccessible for most people. The internet has brought a lot of benefits and convenience but obviously there are big issues there with kids having access to stuff they shouldn't and cyber bullying. Ironically the multitude ways we have of instantly connecting with people has made people lonelier.

Overall - some things better, some things worse. Hard to quantify it into a definitive about things being better or worse these days.

Dud you are so brainwashed. Everything is your fault, or mine in this case, never theirs. Corruption and authoritarianism accelerates to become the norm? Well, observing that fact would be the ultimate act of cynicism, so shut up! Our wonderfully democratic government is about to cancel elections. That just shows you what a tried old git I have become.

As for the players, any players, you think they couldn't have played Pepball? Tip, tap, tip, tap? I bet they'd have loved it. Instead of getting paid £50 to tear up and down the line for 90 minutes, end to end, getting elbowed and kicked the whole time, they could stand around, back to goal, passing backwards. For £100k a week. And maybe they did drink down the pub, but they only had the £50 to spend. Now they can book limos and stuff them with whores and have their rap "music" blaring out the window. It's all so civilised.

[Niall_Quinn]

some things are better - the smoking ban feels like one of the least heralded but most important steps forward, not least for the NHS but also (and I speak as an ex-smoker) just improving our social experiences by not treading on a carpet of fag butts, or being suffocated in small venues or ofc passively developing cancer

general air quality is better to thanks to (ahem) 'cleaner' fuel but ofc the elephant in the room is climate change which, as you at least are aware, is now getting the point where it's irreversible and makes me particularly glad I'm not any younger than I am, though even in my late 50s I'm far from convinced I'll miss witnessing some of the really bad effects of it

Just out of interest, what terrible effects do you think are on the way after you have shuffled off this mortal coil?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Just out of interest, what terrible effects do you think are on the way after you have shuffled off this mortal coil?

Is that a what happens to the earth after he dies or what happens to him after he dies ?

If the latter, it’s the same that will happen to the rest of us. Nothing

[Niall_Quinn]

I don’t think we should be trying to get their respect and affection, like a low self esteem teenage girl does with her alcoholic piece of shit father. We aren’t going to get it, and it’s of no value anyway.

Getting to the final might add some pathos to the season, but ultimately even if we beat Liverpool in the final it’s nice but it’s ultimately worthless, plus the idea of us being some plucky underdog as we were when we beat them in 1987 nauseates me.


But that’s neither here nor there. I’m quite happy for us to have an antagonistic relationship with the authorities to some extent, they are after all the shit under our shoes.

It's the whole point of the sport. Winning. Why do we go on about the Invincibles? Because they weren't beaten - nobody won against us. Not one single league club that season could point at us and say they beat us. So we should have gone all guns blazing against Newcastle and overwhelmed them, like we know we could, or else ended up last man down in defeat. And, if victorious, gone on and beat Liverpool and said, this is what you are facing, if you are up for it!

Instead, well, worthless, not worth it, we'll only turn up when we rate it. Well I hope so. I hope we can just turn it on and off like a light switch. But I do know Liverpool will be feeling more comfortable after that 4-0 hiding we got. That's one fine margin in their favour, as we start off on a winding road of fine margins. They already have 6 points and a game in hand, not sure we needed to hand them even more.

[Niall_Quinn]

Is that a what happens to the earth after he dies or what happens to him after he dies ?

If the latter, it’s the same that will happen to the rest of us. Nothing

I think a lot of climate activists would probably agree. There's this unshakable faith in the science of profiteering, yeah, earth is doomed, no doubt because. Then there's this absolute certainty that death is the end due to a complete lack of science in that field. I'm wondering what would happen if Bill Gates could somehow monetise the afterlife? Would nihilists rush to the streets selling shares in heaven?

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's the whole point of the sport. Winning. Why do we go on about the Invincibles? Because they weren't beaten - nobody won against us. Not one single league club that season could point at us and say they beat us. So we should have gone all guns blazing against Newcastle and overwhelmed them, like we know we could, or else ended up last man down in defeat. And, if victorious, gone on and beat Liverpool and said, this is what you are facing, if you are up for it!

Instead, well, worthless, not worth it, we'll only turn up when we rate it. Well I hope so. I hope we can just turn it on and off like a light switch. But I do know Liverpool will be feeling more comfortable after that 4-0 hiding we got. That's one fine margin in their favour, as we start off on a winding road of fine margins. They already have 6 points and a game in hand, not sure we needed to hand them even more.

In the invincibles season we lost home and away in the semi final of the league cup to Middlesborough. Who remembers that? No one (probably not even that many Boro fans)

[Letters]

In the invincibles season we lost home and away in the semi final of the league cup to Middlesborough. Who remembers that? No one (probably not even that many Boro fans)

:lol: You can prove anything with facts :sulk:

[Marc Overmars]

At least in those days we’d play the second string no matter what. Wenger wouldn’t even entertain the idea of using the better players until we became a less competitive team after 2006.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think a lot of climate activists would probably agree. There's this unshakable faith in the science of profiteering, yeah, earth is doomed, no doubt because. Then there's this absolute certainty that death is the end due to a complete lack of science in that field. I'm wondering what would happen if Bill Gates could somehow monetise the afterlife? Would nihilists rush to the streets selling shares in heaven?

There’s nothing scientific about the afterlife, it’s wishful thinking that somehow we carry on after our bodies have atrophied

The irony to me is I see almost nothing desirable about it…everlasting life. It sounds fucking awful in fact


And to add to that, a lot of the problems we have in the world today come about because people seem to be under the impression that this existence is just a banal waiting area prior to entering celestial paradise. That and they also believe in the hot country, not enough that you should suffer and die once…you’ve got an eternity of torment to look forward to for thought crime or believing in the wrong deity.


And no before anyone starts no I don’t think we’d be living in peace and harmony without belief in sky beings. We always manage to find some way to be controlling and atavistic.

[HCZ_Reborn]

At least in those days we’d play the second string no matter what. Wenger wouldn’t even entertain the idea of using the better players until we became a less competitive team after 2006.

In fairness, This time around there wasn’t much of an option to play the second string in the first leg….and in the second leg it was kind of a free hit

[Niall_Quinn]

In the invincibles season we lost home and away in the semi final of the league cup to Middlesborough. Who remembers that? No one (probably not even that many Boro fans)

I do. Pissed me right off. Which is why I specifically said "league".

Used to piss me off mightily when the reserves lost, because our reserves were better than most teams back in the day.

[Letters]

There’s nothing scientific about the afterlife
Of course there isn't :lol:
By definition it's not in this life - it's not something which can be measured or studied.
That doesn't inform whether it exists or it doesn't, it's just not a topic science has anything to say about.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Of course there isn't :lol:
By definition it's not in this life - it's not something which can be measured or studied.
That doesn't inform whether it exists or it doesn't, it's just not a topic science has anything to say about.

Mind you, neither does the Bible until we get to the New Testament

Then it just plagiarises and adapts the idea of heaven and hell from Zoroastrianism

[Niall_Quinn]

There’s nothing scientific about the afterlife, it’s wishful thinking that somehow we carry on after our bodies have atrophied

The irony to me is I see almost nothing desirable about it…everlasting life. It sounds fucking awful in fact


And to add to that, a lot of the problems we have in the world today come about because people seem to be under the impression that this existence is just a banal waiting area prior to entering celestial paradise. That and they also believe in the hot country, not enough that you should suffer and die once…you’ve got an eternity of torment to look forward to for thought crime or believing in the wrong deity.


And no before anyone starts no I don’t think we’d be living in peace and harmony without belief in sky beings. We always manage to find some way to be controlling and atavistic.

You are blaming religion for people living banal lives just waiting to die? Nah mate, that's government and taxation that does that. Born, taxed, die - then taxed. Religion says, fuck them, you're better off dead, just try to live a good life while you are here and there's a reward. It's a comfort blanket.

Of course religion is just as man made as climate religion. Both acts of faith disconnected from science.

Death though - nobody knows anything about that, beyond the physical. You can take the attitude that therefore there is nothing to know but that's a conclusion without methodology or investigation, hardly science then. Sometimes it's better to study life. Where does that initial spark come from that populates your physical being for the time you are alive, or do you claim something can come from nothing and then return to nothing? That's anti-scientific. Our greatest thinkers have therefore populate our universe with inverse equivalents to every physical manifestation of energy discovered so far. Modern physics can't exist without this counterbalance.

Smart thinking would have to conclude, at this time, we don't know anything about death and are forced to speculate. A lack of thinking would conclude there is nothing following death.

[Niall_Quinn]

Mind you, neither does the Bible until we get to the New Testament

Then it just plagiarises and adapts the idea of heaven and hell from Zoroastrianism

Which in turn plagiarised it from elsewhere. The same or similar legends endure through almost every recorded civilisation through every age. Casting great suspicion on the "settled" science of anthropology and the rather cocksure field of history.

It's almost as if one mind seeded these cultural beliefs into the minds of all men.

Not to say anyone can put a finger on it and claim, there's your proof! But to refuse to think about it and call it conclusive?

[HCZ_Reborn]

You are blaming religion for people living banal lives just waiting to die? Nah mate, that's government and taxation that does that. Born, taxed, die - then taxed. Religion says, fuck them, you're better off dead, just try to live a good life while you are here and there's a reward. It's a comfort blanket.

Of course religion is just as man made as climate religion. Both acts of faith disconnected from science.

Death though - nobody knows anything about that, beyond the physical. You can take the attitude that therefore there is nothing to know but that's a conclusion without methodology or investigation, hardly science then. Sometimes it's better to study life. Where does that initial spark come from that populates your physical being for the time you are alive, or do you claim something can come from nothing and then return to nothing? That's anti-scientific. Our greatest thinkers have therefore populate our universe with inverse equivalents to every physical manifestation of energy discovered so far. Modern physics can't exist without this counterbalance.

Smart thinking would have to conclude, at this time, we don't know anything about death and are forced to speculate. A lack of thinking would conclude there is nothing following death.


There are a great many things we do not know. There are a great many things to be curious about. The Afterlife is simply not one of those things. Simply because even if God existed and wasn’t just a composite character of Man’s warped imagination and desire for a permanent Daddy figure…there would be no reason to conclude from that anything happens to us after we die.
And where does it end, do the livestock go to a great field in the sky, do the single celled organisms go to an afterlife?.
When something gives off every impression of being something simply that we want to be true, it’s especially important to treat it as untrue until we gain any evidence to the contrary.
You’re right about one thing though, religion like government like capital like tax like every other conceptual thing is a human invention….

[HCZ_Reborn]

Which in turn plagiarised it from elsewhere. The same or similar legends endure through almost every recorded civilisation through every age. Casting great suspicion on the "settled" science of anthropology and the rather cocksure field of history.

It's almost as if one mind seeded these cultural beliefs into the minds of all men.

Not to say anyone can put a finger on it and claim, there's your proof! But to refuse to think about it and call it conclusive?

Science is often wrong and subject to change, it’s a process of gaining evidence using the parameters available to us and opposed to revelation which considers itself good for all time.


I’ve answered your question already, there is no evidence of an Afterlife and every evidence that conceptually it conveniently fits into the human fear of death as well as the need to control others (it’s quite a good way to get people to do what you want, if you threaten them with an eternity of suffering for not doing so)

[Letters]

I’ve answered your question already, there is no evidence of an Afterlife
And no evidence against it.
As I said, this is not in the scope of science. How can it be?
When I said that before you just changed the subject.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And no evidence against it.
As I said, this is not in the scope of science. How can it be?
When I said that before you just changed the subject.

You accept I hope that at least with the idea of God it’s a possible (albeit unlikely) answer as to how we got here

With the afterlife the only possible reason for believing it to be true, is wanting it to be true.

I didn’t dodge that point, it didn’t seem to necessitate an answer. A lot of things are unfalsifiable. I dont know that Optimus Prime isn’t real, I’ve evidence of him being a fictional creation but that doesn’t prove beyond doubt that he doesn’t exist on the far away planet of Cybertron and it’s just coincidental that someone on this planet came up with the idea for children’s entertainment.

[Chippy]

You accept I hope that at least with the idea of God it’s a possible (albeit unlikely) answer as to how we got here

With the afterlife the only possible reason for believing it to be true, is wanting it to be true.

I didn’t dodge that point, it didn’t seem to necessitate an answer. A lot of things are unfalsifiable. I dont know that Optimus Prime isn’t real, I’ve evidence of him being a fictional creation but that doesn’t prove beyond doubt that he doesn’t exist on the far away planet of Cybertron and it’s just coincidental that someone on this planet came up with the idea for children’s entertainment.

I find the whole subject of an afterlife quite interesting. Maybe nothing to do with God, it may just be a natrual metamorphises :shrug:

But.....is anyone going to mention the horror show from St James's Park last night?

[Letters]

I didn’t dodge that point, it didn’t seem to necessitate an answer.
I just don't know why you said there's "nothing scientific" about it as if it was some kind of gotcha.
It isn't.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I find the whole subject of an afterlife quite interesting. Maybe nothing to do with God, it may just be a natrual metamorphises :shrug:

But.....is anyone going to mention the horror show from St James's Park last night?

So I’d ask the same question, is there any reason for you to believe in this metamorphosis beyond thinking it would be nice to have a life beyond this one?

Have there been any breadcrumb trails. Does it give an alternative explanation why you keep hearing Aunty Maggie’s voice after she’s dead for twenty years….and not that you’re just having auditory hallucinations

[HCZ_Reborn]

I just don't know why you said there's "nothing scientific" about it as if it was some kind of gotcha.
It isn't.

The point is even though belief in God is unscientific, the concept of a God follows on from the scientific question “How did we get here”

Afterlife? It follows on from allaying fear and wanting other people to do what you want

[Niall_Quinn]

You accept I hope that at least with the idea of God it’s a possible (albeit unlikely) answer as to how we got here

With the afterlife the only possible reason for believing it to be true, is wanting it to be true.

I didn’t dodge that point, it didn’t seem to necessitate an answer. A lot of things are unfalsifiable. I dont know that Optimus Prime isn’t real, I’ve evidence of him being a fictional creation but that doesn’t prove beyond doubt that he doesn’t exist on the far away planet of Cybertron and it’s just coincidental that someone on this planet came up with the idea for children’s entertainment.

You allow at least the possibility we got here thanks to God? But discount entirely the possibility God might take charge again when our physical bodies expire? Leaving aside religion, in terms of logic how can you allow both positions at the same time?

[Niall_Quinn]

I find the whole subject of an afterlife quite interesting. Maybe nothing to do with God, it may just be a natrual metamorphises :shrug:

But.....is anyone going to mention the horror show from St James's Park last night?

Fuck - LOL, I thought we were on the Currents thread.

[Niall_Quinn]

So then... where does our season go after it has died? Like it did last night?

[HCZ_Reborn]

You allow at least the possibility we got here thanks to God? But discount entirely the possibility God might take charge again when our physical bodies expire? Leaving aside religion, in terms of logic how can you allow both positions at the same time?

Because it’s ultimately solipsistic to believe that this God cares about us, and ultimately the desire to reward or punish is a very human appetite. And why should creating the universe also give someone the power to create life after death.

Actually if we want to be scientific, we do carry on after death….our atomic structure breaks down and we become something else. Bit like how the remains of prehistoric creatures become fossil fuel after centuries of tectonic pressure

[Letters]

So then... where does our season go after it has died? Like it did last night?

Dubai apparently. After that, we'll see.
I haven't given up yet. I don't think the players have either. But having another look at the league table - Liverpool have won 3 more games than us having played 1 game less. It's not looking promising.

[Niall_Quinn]

Dubai apparently. After that, we'll see.
I haven't given up yet. I don't think the players have either. But having another look at the league table - Liverpool have won 3 more games than us having played 1 game less. It's not looking promising.

Not pleased at the result or the likely outcome for the season. But don't condone sending the players to hell for it.

[Letters]

Not pleased at the result or the likely outcome for the season. But don't condone sending the players to hell for it.

Pre-pandemic I used to get fairly regular work trips there.
Hated it the first time I went but grew to quite like it. It's not a real place of course and I definitely wouldn't live there.
For a short trip...it's alright.

[Niall_Quinn]

The gypos are suing us for voting against their fake sponsors. I think they are suing everyone else too, but so far nothing through my letterbox.

Aren't they allowed to put their own cash in directly if they want to? Why do they have to wear disguises and pretend to be sponsors?

[Niall_Quinn]

Yesterday's footballers simply couldn't live with the mega stars of today. I mean, can you spot a Palmer or a Haaland in this lot of wasters?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKG6XyPowvw

LOL

[Niall_Quinn]

Why are Carragher and Neville working night and day to disrupt MLS' and Nwaneri's careers? On and on and on they go about these kids, and still going long after everyone else has moved on. The latest shit is Carragher suggesting they kids don't use the main changing room with the first team is because Arteta is taking steps to keep them humble and tamp down the arrogance. Except that's not why Nwaneri is changing separately at all, it's because he is a minor and it's the law. And MLS is simply there to keep him company until they can both go and join the first team.

Why is Carragher literally making up shit abut our kids and when is somebody going to plant their boot in his arse? What a twat. I can get he wants Liverpool to win it, nothing wrong with that. But also, don't take a job as an impartial commentator if you can't be impartial and stop harassing kids why don't you?

[IBK]

Why are Carragher and Neville working night and day to disrupt MLS' and Nwaneri's careers? On and on and on they go about these kids, and still going long after everyone else has moved on. The latest shit is Carragher suggesting they kids don't use the main changing room with the first team is because Arteta is taking steps to keep them humble and tamp down the arrogance. Except that's not why Nwaneri is changing separately at all, it's because he is a minor and it's the law. And MLS is simply there to keep him company until they can both go and join the first team.

Why is Carragher literally making up shit abut our kids and when is somebody going to plant their boot in his arse? What a twat. I can get he wants Liverpool to win it, nothing wrong with that. But also, don't take a job as an impartial commentator if you can't be impartial and stop harassing kids why don't you?

It always seems to be open season on Arsenal.

If Nwaneri and MLS were at Citeh; Manure or Liverpool pundits would be applauding their talent rather than looking for reasons to do them down.

I've been thinking about the reasons for this. I don't think Arteta is liked - he is regarded as being disrepectful and moany (even though he has given no more cause for this than many other managers - Klopp for example) - but it's being going on longer than this.

I think part of the truth is Northern bias, and our enduring perception of being a 'foreign' team that started with Wenger's appointment (even though we now have 2 of the most important England players - and 2 more - in Ben White and MLS who are surely sought after to play for their country).

But I think the main reason is that we are not respected because we have won so little for over 2 decades. We are regarded as nearly men; lacking bottle, and a bit derided as being a huge club who don't win titles. The shame of this season is that we are adding to this impression by appearing small time in the transfer market...

[HCZ_Reborn]

Andrea Berta (formerly of Atletico Madrid) is now the favourite to replace Edu as Sporting Director

Then again I take this with pinch of salt as same ITK’s saying a few weeks ago it was definitely going to be Roberto Olabe

[Mac76]

ST prices going up for 25/26, by 3% for upper and 5% lower ('Ashburton Army' :pal:)

People will have the option of buying a 19-game PL-only ticket or a 23-game ticket whcih includes four CL games (if we qualify that is...)

[Mac76]

On the surface of it this sounds like a decent appointment, someone who will hopefully know his stuff and also stand up to Arteta a bit.

https://arseblog.news/2025/03/report-andrea-berta-set-to-become-new-sporting-director/

[IBK]

Where I am emotionally right now is that I'm pretty much done with debating the club's deficiencies, and the issues with the way we have played this season.

It's been a pretty horrible season in one way or another, and really depressing to see us drop off when we were hopeful of building further on our performances of the 2 last seasons.

I get why all the talk is about the CL quarters - but for me there is little chance of us going through against RM. (A half fit) Saka or not we are in poor shape as a team - and I do not expect the goals against a pretty awful PSV to count for anything (just as the Citeh result meant zero in our subsequent EPL games).

So the Berta appointment at least offers some encouragement as regards the Summer we are going to have to have to get back on track. And for now I am simply hoping that our season has been down to the exhausting effect of trying to keep pace with Citeh for the 2 previous seasons (it happened to Liverpool as well), and that we can regroup and show that all those (including me) writing off Areteta's system as a means of winning things can be disproven.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I simply don’t think I’d feel anywhere near as annoyed/aggrieved as I would if it were City we were 15 points behind rather than Liverpool. And even with that, that anger has given way to grim acceptance from the time Havertz was out for the season.
Equally I’ve never liked the way we play under Arteta, but as much as I like goals and good attacking football I hate defeat and I like that we are still hard to beat. I would prefer a more direct way of playing but I equally like keeping clean sheets and not conceding lots of goals.
I also don’t think the system is as much as a factor as injuries and not strengthening. We struggled to break teams down last season until we came up with the set pieces and whilst there’s an argument that could be made to say teams have worked out how to defend them, I think missing Saka and White has been just as responsible as that

Ultimately whilst Liverpool’s style is more direct and more eye pleasing, it wasn’t necessarily more effective against a determined defence.

The way I see it Liverpool struggled to finish 4th the season after winning the title due to injuries. We are still looking ok for 2nd. If we finish 2nd then with 1/4 finals of the champions league although it’s been more of a damp squib with everything factored in it’s hard to argue we’ve gone backwards even if not progressed.

[Marc Overmars]

It’s been a weird season, feels like it never really started. No peaks, no troughs, just an odd sense that nothing is really happening. Hugely disappointing and quite a contrast to the previous 2 years.

[Mac76]

and that we can regroup and show that all those (including me) writing off Areteta's system as a means of winning things can be disproven.

I'd prefer Arteta changed the system :)

Seriously if we are to really be winners he needs to:

- find a way to find a more quick-moving playing style that may at times cede a little more possession but overall lead to more space and more goals

- have more than one setup and way of playing - a Plan B

- stop trying to rely on the same small group of players in every game and adopt a far more tolerant approach to giving others some decent minutes, even if they don't immediately impress

- stop playing unsuited players at LB who can't defend

- focus transfer strategy on creative and attacking players

It won't happen obvs, he's too set in his ways, which is why I can't get excited about next season even if everyone is fit and we sign Isak, Arteta will find a way to have us come up short

We're stuck with the horseshoe until he goes

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I'd prefer Arteta changed the system :)

Seriously if we are to really be winners he needs to:

- find a way to find a more quick-moving playing style that may at times cede a little more possession but overall lead to more space and more goals

- have more than one setup and way of playing - a Plan B

- stop trying to rely on the same small group of players in every game and adopt a far more tolerant approach to giving others some decent minutes, even if they don't immediately impress

- stop playing unsuited players at LB who can't defend

- focus transfer strategy on creative and attacking players

It won't happen obvs, he's too set in his ways, which is why I can't get excited about next season even if everyone is fit and we sign Isak, Arteta will find a way to have us come up short

We're stuck with the horseshoe until he goes

Yup, pretty spot on again.

I stopped believing in AW way before the Leicester season...however that season confirmed to me that even if he ditched project youth and signed the best players in the world and the best strikers he still wouldn't win the league. Which was what happened in the final seasons when he changed course, pulled out the chequebook and we finally had players like Ozil, Laca and Auba in the same team...yet the same depressing results.

I think I've reached that conclusion also with Arteta, no matter what happens in the CL this season, I don't think he'll ever win this league and I don't think he'd ever win this league with any other team either, except maybe he was managing an overpowered Citeh side.

The longer we leave the "hard" decision, the longer the wait continues, that's my opinion on this.

[Letters]

Tells you something about how hilariously inept Spurs have been that S mediocre as we’ve been, we only need one more win to celebrate St Totteringham’s Day. (I guess technically we need 4 points with gd, but still)

[Letters]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1ABDUDmZ91/?mibextid=wwXIfr

:haha:

Arteta :bow:

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1ABDUDmZ91/?mibextid=wwXIfr

:haha:

Arteta :bow:

Ugh, it’s almost worse when he’s trying to be funny. He should remain standoffish, cold and humourless…at least that’s natural for him. You’ve either got charisma or you haven’t…..he hasn’t

[HCZ_Reborn]

Tells you something about how hilariously inept Spurs have been that S mediocre as we’ve been, we only need one more win to celebrate St Totteringham’s Day. (I guess technically we need 4 points with gd, but still)

Not going to mention any names because I can’t remember who it was, but there were one or two on here who said we should have signed Solanke
:whistle:

[Letters]

Ugh, it’s almost worse when he’s trying to be funny. He should remain standoffish, cold and humourless…at least that’s natural for him. You’ve either got charisma or you haven’t…..he hasn’t

:rolleyes:

[HCZ_Reborn]

:rolleyes:

So I would say I’ve been as fair as I can be to Arteta over the past month, I mean after all you can’t polish a turd

But from what I see of him as a person I don’t like him. For the same reason I don’t like Guardiola either. Guardiola is even worse tbf, in terms of that passive agressive smug superiority dressed up as magnanimity.

Harsh it may be, but Arteta has no personality. Wenger had personality, when he was being jovial it came off

[Mac76]

:rolleyes:

Indeed :lol:

[Mac76]

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/1ABDUDmZ91/?mibextid=wwXIfr

:haha:

Arteta :bow:

I couldn't get any sound on that or isn't there any?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Indeed :lol:

Back from your holiday away from being a twat I see?

[Letters]

I couldn't get any sound on that or isn't there any?

There is some. I always find the unmute button hard to find on these things.

[Letters]

But from what I see of him as a person I don’t like him.
You're shitting me!

Arteta is not generally that much fun, I'd agree. He's no Ian Holloway.
But actually, I thought the above was quite funny. I guess he'd seen some of the fallout from his road-runner style exit last week, so was having a bit of a dig at himself. I thought he pulled it off.
There's disliking someone and there's being all Frank Grimes about it. You veer towards the latter at times with Arteta.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You're shitting me!

Arteta is not generally that much fun, I'd agree. He's no Ian Holloway.
But actually, I thought the above was quite funny. I guess he'd seen some of the fallout from his road-runner style exit last week, so was having a bit of a dig at himself. I thought he pulled it off.
There's disliking someone and there's being all Frank Grimes about it. You veer towards the latter at times with Arteta.

The irony of you citing Frank Grimes is that everything he said about Homer was 100% accurate. And that what he was more angry about was how people chose to ignore it


I wouldn’t make that claim in regards to Arteta, mine is just a sense I have from experiencing people in my life who I regard as totally insincere. I think Arteta being from what I can see not a people person isn’t the problem, it’s that smug condescending attitude (that I see massively in Pep G). The kind of person who would put a jumper on backwards and blame other people for not bringing it to his attention sooner.

I just think don’t be a dick when people ask you tough questions (take your medicine like a big boy) and then try and make a joke about it a week later.
I’ve read a lot about the Auba situation and from what I can tell, he took Auba aside and starting screaming at him for “betraying” him, should Auba have made him aware that he wasn’t going to be back a day later and acted like a professional as well as club captain? Totally for sure, he’s not blameless in this affair. But Arteta’s reaction was unhinged….and the only thing I can say is that I hope that he’s grown as a person in the 3+ years since then as that’s not a way to inspire loyalty and camaraderie.
This clip however was on the whole more to do with it just painfully unfunny and cringe

[Letters]

This clip however was on the whole more to do with it just painfully unfunny and cringe
Which was my point, Grimey.
Other people I've sent it to found it funny. You're so blinded by irrational hatred of Arteta that all you see something different.
Because sure, Grimes was right about Homer but his reaction was still irrational. Homer was at worst stupid and lucky, not someone deserving of the level of antipathy Grimes had towards him.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Change the channel, Marge

[HCZ_Reborn]

Which was my point, Grimey.
Other people I've sent it to found it funny. You're so blinded by irrational hatred of Arteta that all you see something different.
Because sure, Grimes was right about Homer but his reaction was still irrational. Homer was at worst stupid and lucky, not someone deserving of the level of antipathy Grimes had towards him.

The only thing Grimes actually does wrong is electrocuting himself. But the fact that Homer is affable at times, doesn’t change the fact that he’s dangerously incompetent as a safety inspector, is lazy and actually behaves in a way both harmful to himself and others (Grimes stops him from drinking a beaker of acid for heavens sakes :lol:)

But again this isn’t especially relevant, your supposition appears to be that I only find it cringe because it’s Arteta. No it’s cringe because it’s cringe, I think it’s redolent of Arteta that he would do something cringe in order to be funny but it could be someone I liked and I’d still find it cringe

Maybe it’s harsh but genuinely funny charismatic people are funny without even trying. If you don’t have it, don’t try it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://youtu.be/nWH9bzGrMto?si=TDpSQo0mhwQaShnR

It’s all subjective at the end of the day, but this is far less cringe because it’s far more natural. Staring wild eyed at the camera with that Dr Teeth from the Muppets smile and laughing like a lunatic and genuinely seeming mystified about the question about an offside goal.

[IBK]

I'd prefer Arteta changed the system :)

Seriously if we are to really be winners he needs to:

- find a way to find a more quick-moving playing style that may at times cede a little more possession but overall lead to more space and more goals

- have more than one setup and way of playing - a Plan B

- stop trying to rely on the same small group of players in every game and adopt a far more tolerant approach to giving others some decent minutes, even if they don't immediately impress

- stop playing unsuited players at LB who can't defend

- focus transfer strategy on creative and attacking players

It won't happen obvs, he's too set in his ways, which is why I can't get excited about next season even if everyone is fit and we sign Isak, Arteta will find a way to have us come up short

We're stuck with the horseshoe until he goes

I agree in that I would like to see a more dynamic approach. It was interesting on Sunday to see Maresca's team (another Guardiola disciple) doing what we see Arteta's Arsenal do so often - horseshoe passes and then passing the ball back when high up the pitch - I don't think I can remember seeing us play another team quite as wedded to this possession obsessed game this season. But noteable also that (with both teams missing a striker/key forwards), we (1) looked a lot more threatening, and (2) mostly controlled and managed the game - almost completely taking Chelsea out of it. In doing so, I think we exemplified what Arteta is trying to do - exert such a stranglehold on games that we stifle the opposition. Chelsea were hardly up to much, but they have an expensively assembled team, and it was 2nd vs 4th but almost a non-contest.

Like you say - Arteta is not going to change radically, but I am hoping that if we can retain second place with so many forward injuries, then some judicious forward additions over the Summer will see us able to kick on. I have mellowed a bit from a few weeks ago when I was gutted that we failed to maintain pressure on Liverpool, and still see this season as a wasted and self-inflicted failure to take advantage of a pretty poor EPL contest (also rue the fact that Liverpool's long-awaited running out of gas has come with them too far ahead to capitalise on). So I am now prepared to accept that the 'eye test' does not tell the whole story, and that our toothlessness is the result of a system that is dependent on all its cogs working rather than anything more than a more inherent issue.

[Mac76]

I've heard that the more Maresca has them playing his way the worse they're becoming, sure they're without Palmer, Madueke and Jackson but even before that they were already morphing into something more stodgy apparently, the results seem to reflect that.

[Chippy]

https://metro.co.uk/2025/03/21/riccardo-calafiori-injury-update-arsenal-star-suffers-worrying-setback-playing-italy-22765464/?ito=newsnow-feed

This guy really is made of paper.

[Mac76]

https://metro.co.uk/2025/03/21/riccardo-calafiori-injury-update-arsenal-star-suffers-worrying-setback-playing-italy-22765464/?ito=newsnow-feed

This guy really is made of paper.

yeah we took a risk on him and it didn't pay off by the looks of it

[Chippy]

yeah we took a risk on him and it didn't pay off by the looks of it

Let's hope it is not an ACL.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s his collateral ligament apparently. I don’t know if it’s the medial or lateral one (I had to look up even where it was, I certainly had no idea there was two of them). No surgery required, possibly anti inflammatories, ice and physio. Likely to be out for 2-3 weeks from time of injury (which means he will likely be out for the Fulham and Everton games but be in contention for a return against Real Madrid).

[Chippy]

It’s his collateral ligament apparently. I don’t know if it’s the medial or lateral one (I had to look up even where it was, I certainly had no idea there was two of them). No surgery required, possibly anti inflammatories, ice and physio. Likely to be out for 2-3 weeks from time of injury (which means he will likely be out for the Fulham and Everton games but be in contention for a return against Real Madrid).
That's a relief.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Just an interesting experiment, looked at how many league games we’ve had since Wenger left (257) and compare it to the last 257 that Wenger had in charge

So 2011-2018 Win 146 draw 55 lost 56

2018-2025 Win 145 draw 52 lost 60

[Letters]

So...I think what you're saying is... Wenger IN! :cool:

[HCZ_Reborn]

So...I think what you're saying is... Wenger IN! :cool:

What I think I was saying is I was incredibly bored waiting for a flight :lol:

[Letters]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cpwd9v02g89t

yay

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/cpwd9v02g89t

yay

I was today years old when I found out that Arsenal women have actually won the champions league

[Mac76]

This piece seesaws a little but overall interesting to read. I hope he's wrong about Berta being completely subservient to Arteta, I'd been hoping that wouldn't be the case

https://www.le-grove.co.uk/p/arsenal-structure-club-around-a-king

[KSE Comedy Club]

This piece seesaws a little but overall interesting to read. I hope he's wrong about Berta being completely subservient to Arteta, I'd been hoping that wouldn't be the case

https://www.le-grove.co.uk/p/arsenal-structure-club-around-a-king

Whilst he may have some good points, I don't necessarily agree that Berta is just gonna sit there and be a yes man to do Arteta's bidding.
No doubt he would have some assurances in place that he will have some say over the future direction the club will take.
Ultimately we want to win trophies and they have brought in, arguably, the best person to do that in terms of recruitment.

I think the article is overly negative and dismissive of the pros this appointment will bring. The game has changed on the transfer front for us now.

He also forgets to mention this (from the Athletic article)

"It’s a testament to the attractiveness of Arsenal that even those candidates with concerns were prepared to explore the role."

So, they were not completely put off the idea of working under Arteta.
I also don't agree that a Sporting Director that is in charge of everything (including the manager) is the defacto, correct way to go about things either.
It's a 'it's not right or wrong' thing for me.

[Mac76]

Yeah all fair, and I don't think it's a very consistent article but then it's just a fan thing

tbh I've only just been able to read the Athletic article itself

that said if it's true other candidates were put off by the level of Arteta's involvement with selection then that's maybe a concern

I'm not sure where I am whether a DOF should be fully above the coach but at the very least they should be equals

[Mac76]

Anyway I see we're playing Spuds in a 'friendly' in Hong Kong this summer - I'd prefer it if we were playing a team of some kind of decent standing but there you go...

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yeah all fair, and I don't think it's a very consistent article but then it's just a fan thing

tbh I've only just been able to read the Athletic article itself

that said if it's true other candidates were put off by the level of Arteta's involvement with selection then that's maybe a concern

I'm not sure where I am whether a DOF should be fully above the coach but at the very least they should be equals

I agree

[Letters]

24 years since Rocky passed.
How the utter fuck is it that long?

:rose:

[Mac76]

RIP

[Letters]

Anyway I see we're playing Spuds in a 'friendly' in Hong Kong this summer - I'd prefer it if we were playing a team of some kind of decent standing but there you go...

They're not even trying to hide any more that pre-season these days isn't about preparing for the new season, they're now nothing more then exercises in building fanbase and therefore generating income from various far-flung parts of the world.

[HCZ_Reborn]

They're not even trying to hide any more that pre-season these days isn't about preparing for the new season, they're now nothing more then exercises in building fanbase and therefore generating income from various far-flung parts of the world.

It’s also nothing new, I think Wenger fought against it somewhat and that’s why for years we seemed to always have our pre-season in some obscure part of Austria.

But even under George Graham there were pre-season tours of the far east. Even then shirt sales and building a global fanbase was a thing….the addition was that it was also something of a holiday for the players to allow them to “let their hair down”.

But no such luck for current crop, I’m not saying making racial slurs to Thai hookers is a particularly nice thing to do….but I felt the reaction to the Leicester City pre season tour was over the top given that although prostitution is technically illegal it’s also a massive booming industry that operates in the grey area of the law.

Again not saying Arsenal players should be indulging in this vice, I’m just saying that a club of Arsenal’s standing means that every minute of the players time will be taken up either training, playing matches or doing some kind of highly scripted fan outreach

[Marc Overmars]

We were behind the curve for a decade with these tours because of Wenger stubbornly refusing to budge.

[HCZ_Reborn]

We were behind the curve for a decade with these tours because of Wenger stubbornly refusing to budge.

I remember at the time thinking he was being stubborn, now? I kind of think he was right