Summer Transfer Shit and Everything Else

[dostoy]

Who would you want to replace Arteta if he left ?

He's not going anywhere this summer anyway.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arteta annoys the fuck out of me but yeah there’s no sense in denying there is no obvious replacement

De Zerbi next year possibly? I think more likely depending on what he does with us, Arteta will be brought to Man City to replace Guardiola 2025

[Mac76]

Arteta annoys the fuck out of me but yeah there’s no sense in denying there is no obvious replacement

De Zerbi next year possibly? I think more likely depending on what he does with us, Arteta will be brought to Man City to replace Guardiola 2025

De Zerbi has a testing season ahead of him as Brighton will lose some good players but yes if he does well in Europe and PL it would be worth thinking about

Citeh will only want Arteta if he shows he can rotate players and adjust tactics in the way a proper manager does

[Marc Overmars]

Neves off to Saudi Arabia for 47m. :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

I hear that Partey bloke might be off after him. Good riddance. One of the worst so-called players to ever foul the club, and we've had a few. Should mean a big fee from the Saudi idiots. So possibly the money could go on an actual midfielder.

Hear we are signing defenders and more AMs. What's that all about? It's been a plague at the club for decades. Need a striker? Need a DM? I know, sign your 500th AM and a couple of defenders.

Pepe isn't off the books either, apparently. So the Chav reject signing is doubly weird.

[selassie]

https://twitter.com/David_Ornstein/status/1670910946993217541


EXCLUSIVE: Arsenal working on deal to sign Ajax defender Jurrien Timber. #AFC have made an opening offer worth ~£30m. #Ajax want ~£50m but optimism a compromise will be reached. Personal terms with Netherlands int’l thought to be in place

This would be a really decent signing for Rotation CB and RB. He is a fairly big talent, he stalled a bit last season but prior to that everyone was raving about him. I hope we pull this off if he is seen as cover / rotation for Saliba and White.

[Marc Overmars]

Never heard of him but more options at the back are needed, so sign him up.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Are options really needed at the back? We have four centre backs even if Holding goes…what is this obsession Arteta has with playing centre backs at right back

[selassie]

Are options really needed at the back? We have four centre backs even if Holding goes…what is this obsession Arteta has with playing centre backs at right back

Absolutely needed if we want to challenge again and give CL a good go. Tomi is a crock, we are a Saliba injury away from Holding starting again. Timber is experienced for a young kid, has CL experience, plays regularly for the Dutch National team and has experience of winning trophies at Ajax. He is absolutely needed.

Also Timber is versatile, he has played both at CB and RB for Ajax, he is a really technical defender, probably good enough to play in Midfield for a lot of teams too.

We need a deep squad next season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Absolutely needed if we want to challenge again and give CL a good go. Tomi is a crock, we are a Saliba injury away from Holding starting again. Timber is experienced for a young kid, has CL experience, plays regularly for the Dutch National team and has experience of winning trophies at Ajax. He is absolutely needed.

Also Timber is versatile, he has played both at CB and RB for Ajax, he is a really technical defender, probably good enough to play in Midfield for a lot of teams too.

We need a deep squad next season.


Disagree…we need one right back or one player that can play left/right back at most…we have too many centre backs


We have Gabriel, Saliba, White, Kiwior, Holding and Tomoyasu


If we want a full back by all means sign a full back stop signing centre halves that can play there

[selassie]

Disagree…we need one right back or one player that can play left/right back at most…we have too many centre backs


We have Gabriel, Saliba, White, Kiwior, Holding and Tomoyasu


If we want a full back by all means sign a full back stop signing centre halves that can play there

Apart from Gabriel and Saliba, and to a lesser extent White, we don't have the required quality for CL & PL. To even list Holding as an option going into next season is laughable. Kiwior in time might be a decent option to rotate with Gabriel, Tomi for now is a crock, he cannot be relied upon.

We are signing a player who can operate at full back and centre back comfortably, why you keep saying he isn't a versatile player is beyond me.

The squad needs strengthening, I have no idea why you are not happy with that.

[Marc Overmars]

We’ve offered 90m for Rice now.

[Mac76]

Apart from Gabriel and Saliba, and to a lesser extent White, we don't have the required quality for CL & PL. To even list Holding as an option going into next season is laughable. Kiwior in time might be a decent option to rotate with Gabriel, Tomi for now is a crock, he cannot be relied upon.


yes that is a good summary, we do need to strengthen there

[HCZ_Reborn]

Apart from Gabriel and Saliba, and to a lesser extent White, we don't have the required quality for CL & PL. To even list Holding as an option going into next season is laughable. Kiwior in time might be a decent option to rotate with Gabriel, Tomi for now is a crock, he cannot be relied upon.

We are signing a player who can operate at full back and centre back comfortably, why you keep saying he isn't a versatile player is beyond me.

The squad needs strengthening, I have no idea why you are not happy with that.


Because we have limited funds and we need to prioritise


We need four Centre backs and we have four centre backs - White, Kiwior, Gabriel and Saliba we absolutely do not need players in centre back position. We need to get rid of players in that role, Holding and as you say possibly Tomoyasu (although I’d keep him as a reserve option, and bring in a first choice right back) and by first choice right back not another centre back who can play right back…an actual right back

[selassie]

Because we have limited funds and we need to prioritise


We need four Centre backs and we have four centre backs - White, Kiwior, Gabriel and Saliba we absolutely do not need players in centre back position. We need to get rid of players in that role, Holding and as you say possibly Tomoyasu (although I’d keep him as a reserve option, and bring in a first choice right back) and by first choice right back not another centre back who can play right back…an actual right back

Limited funds? Everywhere I have been reading we have 200mill plus whatever we get for outgoings, we are going to spend BIG this summer, that much is pretty clear.

White is our first choice right back, he can cover at CB but that does not mean he will be used as a CB. White is a right back, he was good enough last season, Timber is a right back and CB like White and hopefully assuming we sign him will provide good rotation for him and possibly Saliba along with White at CB.

[HCZ_Reborn]

No he’s a centre back covering at right back. He should not be playing right back

Over 200 million? Wow…well considering we’ve already committed to pissing 80% of that away on Rice and Donkey Boy…still doesn’t mean a lot

[KSE Comedy Club]

We’ve offered 90m for Rice now.

Apparently its £75m with £15m of add-ons.

Watch it get rejected later today & City make a bid by Thursday.

If we really want him that much and he is our 'priority', then just bid properly and get him in ffs. I'm all for us trying to haggle, but the longer this goes on the more chance we have of fucking it up.

[dostoy]

Rise will go to Man City if they want him.

Treble winners or bottlers, its not much of a choice.

[selassie]

No he’s a centre back covering at right back. He should not be playing right back

Over 200 million? Wow…well considering we’ve already committed to pissing 80% of that away on Rice and Donkey Boy…still doesn’t mean a lot

Ok cool :unsure:

[Marc Overmars]

Apparently its £75m with £15m of add-ons.

Watch it get rejected later today & City make a bid by Thursday.

If we really want him that much and he is our 'priority', then just bid properly and get him in ffs. I'm all for us trying to haggle, but the longer this goes on the more chance we have of fucking it up.

Already rejected. Apparently the add-ons include us winning the League or CL, so you can understand why West Ham think they won’t be seeing that money. :lol:

I get that lowballing is a part of all negotiations but I think it’s been fairly clear that he won’t be sold for less than 100m. Embarrassing if we miss out on him.

[selassie]

Apparently its £75m with £15m of add-ons.

Watch it get rejected later today & City make a bid by Thursday.

If we really want him that much and he is our 'priority', then just bid properly and get him in ffs. I'm all for us trying to haggle, but the longer this goes on the more chance we have of fucking it up.

This new bid probably add more favourable installments and maybe the addons were more realistic, I.E 3 installments instead of 6 or something like that. I am pretty confident we will get it done, we have been in dialogue with them for a while and Rice seems to want to move to us only hence why no other teams are involved or in the case of Bayern they withdraw their interest.

I don't even think City want or need him.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Rise will go to Man City if they want him.

Treble winners or bottlers, its not much of a choice.

He doesn't want to leave London and he has already said he won't encourage bids from other clubs.

He wants us but the fee has to be right for WH.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Already rejected. Apparently the add-ons include us winning the League or CL, so you can understand why West Ham think they won’t be seeing that money. :lol:

I get that lowballing is a part of all negotiations but I think it’s been fairly clear that he won’t be sold for less than 100m. Embarrassing if we miss out on him.

Yup, was gonna post the same.

Just get it to £100m (even with add-ons) and they will accept.

We have literally gone back with the same offer just structured differently. What the fuck us Edu doing?!?

[KSE Comedy Club]

This new bid probably add more favourable installments and maybe the addons were more realistic, I.E 3 installments instead of 6 or something like that. I am pretty confident we will get it done, we have been in dialogue with them for a while and Rice seems to want to move to us only hence why no other teams are involved or in the case of Bayern they withdraw their interest.

I don't even think City want or need him.

Yes but the total amount is the same - £90m.

West ham want £100m and they won't budge from that figure, so why have we wasted a whole week just to offer them the same amount?

[selassie]

Yup, was gonna post the same.

Just get it to £100m (even with add-ons) and they will accept.

We have literally gone back with the same offer just structured differently. What the fuck us Edu doing?!?

Structuring the deal differently makes a big difference, if the installments are split over 3 years as oppose to 6 then West Ham will be getting more money upfront and quicker. We are far from perfect in the market but I don't think this new offer is as silly as some seem to be making out.

I do agree with you though, just get the offer up to 100m (which seems to be the fee West Ham want plus a player) and close the deal.

[Marc Overmars]

Yup, was gonna post the same.

Just get it to £100m (even with add-ons) and they will accept.

We have literally gone back with the same offer just structured differently. What the fuck us Edu doing?!?

We’re obviously relying on the strength of Rice’s desire to play for us to swing it. We should understand that West Ham don’t “need” the money though. Most PL clubs aren’t short of a bob or 2 these days, it’s definitely a sellers market. If we want him we will have to pay what they want.

[selassie]

Yes but the total amount is the same - £90m.

West ham want £100m and they won't budge from that figure, so why have we wasted a whole week just to offer them the same amount?

Yeah i hear you but....the reports say West Ham want either 120mill or 100mill plus a player, that doesn't seem to make complete sense, well the 100mill plus a player part.

West Ham haven't rejected this new offer yet....I am not saying they won't....but I don't think we are very far from closing the deal now.

[selassie]

We’re obviously relying on the strength of Rice’s desire to play for us to swing it. We should understand that West Ham don’t “need” the money though. Most PL clubs aren’t short of a bob or 2 these days, it’s definitely a sellers market. If we want him we will have to pay what they want.

Yeah West Ham definitely hold all the cards, I think we will eventually meet in the middle wherever that may be.

We just need to get it done and concentrate on securing our other targets as it looks like we are going to be very active in the Market this summer.

[Mac76]

Rise will go to Man City if they want him.

Treble winners or bottlers, its not much of a choice.

:lol:

[Mac76]

Yeah i hear you but....the reports say West Ham want either 120mill or 100mill plus a player, that doesn't seem to make complete sense, well the 100mill plus a player part.



we have plenty of players they can have - Eddie, Holding, Tavares, Zinchenko, Pepe, Lokonga, etc etc

tbh they can have all of them if they want

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think 70 million plus add ons was more than generous.

[Ralpheroo72]

I think it’s now time to walk away from the Rice circus. £90m is way more than we should be paying, surely there are cheaper alternatives.

[Mac76]

Embarrassing if we miss out on him.

it's embarrassing either way IMO - either we're overpaying for him or we miss out on our publicly-stated number one target who wants to come to the club.

I can't help thinking most other clubs would have handled this differently (for which read 'better').

[HCZ_Reborn]

it's embarrassing either way IMO - either we're overpaying for him or we miss out on our publicly-stated number one target who wants to come to the club.

I can't help thinking most other clubs would have handled this differently (for which read 'better').

Putting to one side the very heavy baggage that I neither rate or want this player

The fact that the two bids have come five days apart suggests to me that Fabrizio Romano reporting that we are slow with getting transfers done because Tom Seleck in aviator specs has to sign off on it seems to me to have some legs.

[Ralpheroo72]

We are woeful with transfers. Look how other clubs conduct their business. how much? Okay, here’s is the asking price. Whereas we come along, how much, okay we will pay you in instalments over 72 years, maybe.
Putting to one side the very heavy baggage that I neither rate or want this player

The fact that the two bids have come five days apart suggests to me that Fabrizio Romano reporting that we are slow with getting transfers done because Tom Seleck in aviator specs has to sign off on it seems to me to have some legs.

[dostoy]

we have plenty of players they can have - Eddie, Holding, Tavares, Zinchenko, Pepe, Lokonga, etc etc

tbh they can have all of them if they want

Yeah but then the fee is £150 million if they have all the above.

[Mac76]

Putting to one side the very heavy baggage that I neither rate or want this player


i'd be happy to get him for about £40-50m, but we should have gone all in for Caicedo, we're also crying out for a big striker as everyone keeps saying

[Letters]

Embarrassing if we miss out on him.
Is it, though?
£100m? Do me a favour.
Is he really that good?

[Ralpheroo72]

West Ham really hoping City enter negotiations. Fuck West ham and Rice. Our money is better off elsewhere, would be funny if at the end of the window he was still at west ham.

[Letters]

West Ham really hoping City enter negotiations. Fuck West ham and Rice. Our money is better off elsewhere, would be funny if at the end of the window he was still at west ham.

:gp:

We'd get a player as for half the price or less who is as good or better if he wasn't English.

[KSE Comedy Club]

We’re obviously relying on the strength of Rice’s desire to play for us to swing it. We should understand that West Ham don’t “need” the money though. Most PL clubs aren’t short of a bob or 2 these days, it’s definitely a sellers market. If we want him we will have to pay what they want.

Well actually they do as they are on the FFP watchlist and are hoping to use some of the money to cover their arses.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yeah i hear you but....the reports say West Ham want either 120mill or 100mill plus a player, that doesn't seem to make complete sense, well the 100mill plus a player part.

West Ham haven't rejected this new offer yet....I am not saying they won't....but I don't think we are very far from closing the deal now.

They rejected it about 30 mins after the media reported our 2nd bid... :shrug:

[KSE Comedy Club]

I think 70 million plus add ons was more than generous.

Not if the price is £100m.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Is it, though?
£100m? Do me a favour.
Is he really that good?

Rice is a very good player, I don't know why people seem to think he isn't ??

[Niall_Quinn]

Is it, though?
£100m? Do me a favour.
Is he really that good?

No he's not. Not unless he's a totally different Rice to the one I've seen play. But above average these days counts as world beating, once the moneymen and publicity hacks have gone to work. Can't see how he'd be better than anything already at the club, injuries permitting. It's a far cry from Lee and Nigel, isn't it? Another Pepe episode. Big money, big hopes, pre-season hype, post-season reality hangover and another huge wage bill.

If a decent striker isn't coming in then spend the £100mill reducing ticket prices then keep on building on what has already been miraculously achieved. Give a couple of kids a chance.

[Letters]

Rice is a very good player, I don't know why people seem to think he isn't ??

I'm sure he is.
Haaland was £52m. Rice is 100, is he? Piss off.
I'd want an absolute fucking superstar for £100m, is he really that? Or is he just pretty good and English?

[Mac76]

I'm sure he is.
Haaland was £52m.

that needs an asterisk - "The Norwegian's switch to Man City also came with a supremely hefty agent fee of €40 million (£34.66m / $41.7m) according to multiple reports ... they also agreed to wages of €432,000 per week (£375k / $451k)" according to reports, which puts him level with the club's highest earners, including Kevin De Bruyne.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/soccer/how-much-did-erling-haaland-cost-man-city-transfer-fee-and-low-price-paid-for-borussia-dortmund-star-striker/ar-AA1cnv1d

but you're still right, they would have got him at a fair price for £150m tbh, and as for Rice, we're massively overpaying

[HCZ_Reborn]

Rice is a very good player, I don't know why people seem to think he isn't ??

I don’t think he is, he excels at a club like West Ham but at international level he has been at the very best inconsistent. He’s another player that doesn’t do well when pressed on the ball, he doesn’t have much in the way of acceleration and is only slightly better on the ball than Xhaka.

[Globalgunner]

I don’t think he is, he excels at a club like West Ham but at international level he has been at the very best inconsistent. He’s another player that doesn’t do well when pressed on the ball, he doesn’t have much in the way of acceleration and is only slightly better on the ball than Xhaka.

My dearly departed Grandma was better on the ball than Xhaka....(No saucy jokes about my Nan or else.)

I will celebrate like mad the day we get rid of that waste of space called Granit

[Marc Overmars]

I'm sure he is.
Haaland was £52m. Rice is 100, is he? Piss off.
I'd want an absolute fucking superstar for £100m, is he really that? Or is he just pretty good and English?

That was Haaland’s release clause so it can’t be compared. Plus as Mac mentioned there were huge sums paid elsewhere in that deal too.

I get sentiment though. It’s ridiculous money but the transfer market is what it is these days. Everyone’s got money.

[selassie]

They rejected it about 30 mins after the media reported our 2nd bid... :shrug:

Yeah my bad, the Sky Sports article I read didn't say anything about it being rejected straight away but then I checked an Ornstein tweet and it said they had rejected it.

[selassie]

we have plenty of players they can have - Eddie, Holding, Tavares, Zinchenko, Pepe, Lokonga, etc etc

tbh they can have all of them if they want

I like the way you slipped in Zinchenko there Mac! :d

[selassie]

Embarrassing if we miss out on him.

Yep, we need to close this deal ASAP. Edu and Garlick will have big questions to answer if this deal collapses, that would be two big deals on the trot that they failed to complete and we have gone very public with this one since January.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I'm sure he is.
Haaland was £52m. Rice is 100, is he? Piss off.
I'd want an absolute fucking superstar for £100m, is he really that? Or is he just pretty good and English?

A superstar is £150m - £200m these days based on current prices.

Every midfielder has a baseline price of £70m now as well, Rice is English so once we apply that magic tax, £100m is about right.

[selassie]

I'm sure he is.
Haaland was £52m. Rice is 100, is he? Piss off.
I'd want an absolute fucking superstar for £100m, is he really that? Or is he just pretty good and English?

That Haaland deal was a release clause. If he was on the market without a release clause, he would have gone for well in excess of 100million IMO

The Rice fee is nuts, but so is the market in general. West Ham rejected 100million for him last summer from Man United, albeit with a longer contract. Also, the market has moved on a bit since then, 80million is kind a standard price now for a highly rated international midfielder, plus we are paying the added "English Tax" on top. West Ham are certainly milking us, but so did Brighton a few years back for Ben White.

I think we have backed ourselves in a corner with the Rice deal, we clearly want him and he's our number one target as we have been publicly saying since January, we are going to have to pay the fee West Ham want for him irrespective of whether he wants us only.

[Mac76]

I like the way you slipped in Zinchenko there Mac! :d

ofc ;)

[Marc Overmars]

Havertz deal is close and expected to be in the region of 65m. That’s from Ornstein.

Not best pleased but hopefully we can get a better tune out of him. :shrug:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yep, we need to close this deal ASAP. Edu and Garlick will have big questions to answer if this deal collapses, that would be two big deals on the trot that they failed to complete and we have gone very public with this one since January.

I genuinely could not get a read on what Richard Garlick actually does

I think we have to be mindful that although we aren’t self sufficient anymore and the Kroenkes have been reasonably generous, they aren’t going to allow us to go berserk and just pay West Ham what they want.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Havertz deal is close and expected to be in the region of 65m. That’s from Ornstein.

Not best pleased but hopefully we can get a better tune out of him. :shrug:

Far from pleased. Why are we throwing Chelsea a fucking life raft?

[Marc Overmars]

Far from pleased. Why are we throwing Chelsea a fucking life raft?

Fuck knows. If it were for a potentially special player then fine but this kid is an awful finisher and pretty lazy as well. I guess he’s still got his best years ahead of him so fingers crossed there’s better to come.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The only thing I will say is that there are people who will complain about this who are also getting frustrated that we won’t pay 120million for Rice, take a consistent view point and stick to it or you’re complaining for no reason.


I don’t want Rice so will be happy if it goes tits up, but also don’t want Havertz. But then again I can’t think of many signings we’ve made under Arteta that were players I thought we should get.


Gabriel, Partey and Jesus are probably the only three players I thought were good signings when we made them

[KSE Comedy Club]

£100m for Rice should be our last and final offer.

No more than that, but it will get the job done.

I'm reading that Utd have contacted WH about him today and are willing to offer McTominay or Maguire plus cash.

Hopefully that will put a foot up Edu's arse to get the deal done and dusted.

[HCZ_Reborn]

£100m for Rice should be our last and final offer.

No more than that, but it will get the job done.

I'm reading that Utd have contacted WH about him today and are willing to offer McTominay or Maguire plus cash.

Hopefully that will put a foot up Edu's arse to get the deal done and dusted.


As I’ve said repeatedly I don’t think it’s in Edu’s gift to speed things up

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fucking hell, City buying Kovacic from Chelsea for 30 million


Honestly stop buying their players….there was a real opportunity to absolutely fuck them up

[HCZ_Reborn]

And on that note we’ve reached agreement for Donkey Boy

[selassie]

I genuinely could not get a read on what Richard Garlick actually does

I think we have to be mindful that although we aren’t self sufficient anymore and the Kroenkes have been reasonably generous, they aren’t going to allow us to go berserk and just pay West Ham what they want.

Director of Football Operations whatever that may be. I read the other day he has been working alongside Edu and others to get these deals over the line, though he is focused on the Rice deal, I think it was an article in the Independent that I read the other day.

[selassie]

Havertz deal is close and expected to be in the region of 65m. That’s from Ornstein.

Not best pleased but hopefully we can get a better tune out of him. :shrug:

It's a really risky signing TBH. This one is totally on Arteta if he flops because we will be stuck with him, he is coming on big wages too, 200k per week I read.

[selassie]

The only thing I will say is that there are people who will complain about this who are also getting frustrated that we won’t pay 120million for Rice, take a consistent view point and stick to it or you’re complaining for no reason.


I don’t want Rice so will be happy if it goes tits up, but also don’t want Havertz. But then again I can’t think of many signings we’ve made under Arteta that were players I thought we should get.


Gabriel, Partey and Jesus are probably the only three players I thought were good signings when we made them

I do get where you are coming from HCZ but I think if we botch the Rice deal it says a lot about us as a Club and how we are dealing with high profile transfers, it will not be a good look. We botched Mudryk by offering ridiculous add-ons into the deal, it sounds like we have done that so far with Rice. Not only that, but both players seemingly have / had their heart set on joining us.

Me personally, we have gone past the point of no return with Rice, Arteta clearly wants him and has admired him for a while, we as a club have been seemingly confident that we will get the deal over the line. We aren't Chelsea or Man City where we can slap down millions without blinking an eye, but if we have always believed we have the budget for him then there should be no problems securing him, we have been speaking to West Ham for a while now. I don't think the fee is the issue, it seems to be how we are structuring it and the add-ons.

[Mac76]

£65m for Havertz is overpaying - transfermarkt has him at 55m euros and he only got 7 goals for Chelse in the PL last season.

I was actually a bit of a fan up until maybe a season or two ago when he started fading a bit - of course Chelsea is such a mess it's hard to be objective about it but as selassie says, it's a risk if nothing else

and if we're paying £100m for Rice and £65m for Havertz, that's only £35 left of our £200m - that won't buy diddly

[selassie]

£100m for Rice should be our last and final offer.

No more than that, but it will get the job done.

I'm reading that Utd have contacted WH about him today and are willing to offer McTominay or Maguire plus cash.

Hopefully that will put a foot up Edu's arse to get the deal done and dusted.

Unless we totally p*ss off West Ham I can't see Rice going anywhere other than Arsenal, it's widely reported that he only wants to join us / keep his young family in the London area.

[dostoy]

There must be someone just as good as Rice, not English, maybe younger and certainly cheaper, out there somewhere.

I would pull the plug on Rice and move on.

[Mac76]

There must be someone just as good as Rice, not English, maybe younger and certainly cheaper, out there somewhere.

I would pull the plug on Rice and move on.

i'd much rather we'd gone all in on Caicedo - thb if we paid £90-100m for him that would be fine by me - with Rice we're paying a big preimium, plus I am amongst those who are, at the very least, a bit unsure about just how much he can offer

[Marc Overmars]

Bit of talk that Partey could be flogged to Saudi Arabia.

[Mac76]

Bit of talk that Partey could be flogged to Saudi Arabia.

'to' or 'in' ...?

[WMUG]

Fucking hell, City buying Kovacic from Chelsea for 30 million


Honestly stop buying their players….there was a real opportunity to absolutely fuck them up

You've seen Boehly's track record with that amount of money, right? :lol:

[Letters]

'to' or 'in' ...?

:haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

You've seen Boehly's track record with that amount of money, right? :lol:

The point is if they can’t sell, they won’t be able to buy simply for logistical reasons

And if they can’t buy then they are stuck with the same players they showed relegation form with last season.

[HCZ_Reborn]

'to' or 'in' ...?

Saudi Arabia normally don’t punish rapists, usually just their victims for dressing provocatively or being out without a family chaperone

[Marc Overmars]

The point is if they can’t sell, they won’t be able to buy simply for logistical reasons

And if they can’t buy then they are stuck with the same players they showed relegation form with last season.

They’ve got some link to Saudi so they’re sending most of their deadbeats there to recoup the money.

[WMUG]

The point is if they can’t sell, they won’t be able to buy simply for logistical reasons

And if they can’t buy then they are stuck with the same players they showed relegation form with last season.

Sure, but if they're mismanaging good players and have a track record of buying shite, then you can buy their good players safe in the knowledge that they'll be unlikely to replace them competently.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sure, but if they're mismanaging good players and have a track record of buying shite, then you can buy their good players safe in the knowledge that they'll be unlikely to replace them competently.

If they were good players they wouldn’t be selling them

The Saudi Arabia is essentially them being paid to unload their dross (Kante is good but he’s 33)

[mandela8]

Havertz all but done, per the EBC.

Very strange signing that one.

Don't see where he fits in, so either he changes position (I know he played a lot more MF in Germany) or a change in system?

Chelsea paid 70 for him and he's been quite poor, so 65m seems a lot of money. If Rice comes for 90 then value for money wise it looks pretty poor.

This club spent 50m on Ben White though, so hardly surprising.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

IMO Kai Havertz is one of the main reasons Chelsea has been in the doldrums for the past few years...to think anyone who wants the best for AFC would think taking this problem off Chelsea and handing them 65m quid is a good idea literally stuns me.

I'll be happy to eat my words on this signing but I do believe this disaster will eclipse Pepe.

Now Chelsea will have no problem bringing in Caicedo; honestly I am really struggling to understand who pushed for this....it makes no sense.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Again, I'm wondering why we couldn't make this one of the last deals we do this transfer window, why did it have to be the first FFS??

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again, I'm wondering why we couldn't make this one of the last deals we do this transfer window, why did it have to be the first FFS??

I’d prefer it was one we didn’t make at all. Though I suspect it’s about the selling club, they’ve sold Kanté, selling Kovacic and are likely to sell Mount

[mandela8]

IMO Kai Havertz is one of the main reasons Chelsea has been in the doldrums for the past few years...to think anyone who wants the best for AFC would think taking this problem off Chelsea and handing them 65m quid is a good idea literally stuns me.

I'll be happy to eat my words on this signing but I do believe this disaster will eclipse Pepe.

Now Chelsea will have no problem bringing in Caicedo; honestly I am really struggling to understand who pushed for this....it makes no sense.

Based on two comments I read on EBC Chelsea fans are sad to see him go. In essence, he's played out of position for 2 years without complaint.

Absolutely zero knowledge myself and 2 comments are nothing in the grand scheme of things. I only mention as I thought exactly as you did, so was surprised to read them.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Based on two comments I read on EBC Chelsea fans are sad to see him go. In essence, he's played out of position for 2 years without complaint.

Absolutely zero knowledge myself and 2 comments are nothing in the grand scheme of things. I only mention as I thought exactly as you did, so was surprised to read them.

A mate of mine is saying the same thing apparently, that he's cover/competiton for Captain Marvel and not Jesus.... unfortunately I still think we'd have gained more if he stayed in Chelsea and continued to weaken them. But the fee irks me more than anything else, I hate funding direct competition especially if its not a steal.

[HCZ_Reborn]

A mate of mine is saying the same thing apparently, that he's cover/competiton for Captain Marvel and not Jesus.... unfortunately I still think we'd have gained more if he stayed in Chelsea and continued to weaken them. But the fee irks me more than anything else, I hate funding direct competition especially if its not a steal.

Cover for Odegaard :haha: we’ve got two players that already play in that position - Smith Rowe and Vieira

Typical of Arteta to load us up with players in positions we don’t need recruitment in and leave us slim in areas we do

The only thing I’d say positive about Havertz is that he provides more aerial threat than Jesus but if he’s not even going to play up front a bit of a waste

[Marc Overmars]

I’d rather Havertz was used as an attacking mid. Absolutely do not want this guy up front, he’ll make Jesus look clinical.

Doesn’t even press either, so I’m not sure where Arteta exactly sees him.

[selassie]

I’d rather Havertz was used as an attacking mid. Absolutely do not want this guy up front, he’ll make Jesus look clinical.

Doesn’t even press either, so I’m not sure where Arteta exactly sees him.

Yeah me too....but we do create a lot of chances so he may pop a fair few in if he does play the False 9 role, even as a number 10 he should score a fair few. I'm going to reserve judgement on him until I have seen him in action for us, but he has not been great for Chelsea, flashes of brilliance here and there, but largely very inconsistent.

He's coming to us at a good time though, everything in our setup is right for him to succeed and he pretty much has to because we put down quite a big investment on him and his wages are high too.

Pressure is on both him and Arteta, he absolutely has to deliver.

[Mac76]

Cover for Odegaard :haha: we’ve got two players that already play in that position - Smith Rowe and Vieira

Typical of Arteta to load us up with players in positions we don’t need recruitment in and leave us slim in areas we do

The only thing I’d say positive about Havertz is that he provides more aerial threat than Jesus but if he’s not even going to play up front a bit of a waste

Both Smith Rowe and Vieira should be sold IMO as they show no sign of doing a job for us, so we do need help there.

Havertz is overpriced, as I said earlier Transfermarkt have him as €55m so we shouldn't be paying £65m

It ia an odd one, but I think he has more potential than some people think, he's just not a 9 where Chelsea have been playing him

Still giving that money to Chelsea when I suspect no-one is excited about signing him is slightly perverse

[KSE Comedy Club]

£65m for Havertz is overpaying - transfermarkt has him at 55m euros and he only got 7 goals for Chelse in the PL last season.

I was actually a bit of a fan up until maybe a season or two ago when he started fading a bit - of course Chelsea is such a mess it's hard to be objective about it but as selassie says, it's a risk if nothing else

and if we're paying £100m for Rice and £65m for Havertz, that's only £35 left of our £200m - that won't buy diddly

Havertz is £50m over 3 instalments and then £15m of add-ons

[HCZ_Reborn]

Both Smith Rowe and Vieira should be sold IMO as they show no sign of doing a job for us, so we do need help there.

Havertz is overpriced, as I said earlier Transfermarkt have him as €55m so we shouldn't be paying £65m

It ia an odd one, but I think he has more potential than some people think, he's just not a 9 where Chelsea have been playing him

Still giving that money to Chelsea when I suspect no-one is excited about signing him is slightly perverse


Neither are likely to be sold though, and I’d keep ESR as back up for Odegaard…all this turning him into a no 8 stuff though is bollocks, absolutely can’t play in central midfield lacks the ability or composure on the ball.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Neither are likely to be sold though, and I’d keep ESR as back up for Odegaard…all this turning him into a no 8 stuff though is bollocks, absolutely can’t play in central midfield lacks the ability or composure on the ball.

He is no where near the level of Odegaard either :shrug:

[HCZ_Reborn]

He is no where near the level of Odegaard either :shrug:

I dunno he’s good enough to be a squad rotation player in that position. Let’s be fair Odegaard had a magnificent season but before that he was often anonymous in games. I genuinely hope that last season was his breakthrough season rather than some outlier

[Marc Overmars]

Bernardo Silva could be close to agreeing a move to Saudi. :lol:

The games gone.

City are also expected to make an offer for Rice now. :rose:

[Ralpheroo72]

Onstein saying City to bid for Rice today, that’s that then.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Onstein saying City to bid for Rice today, that’s that then.

Good, all this bollocks about how he only wants to come to us will dissipate, footballers will go where the money is and ultimately you can’t blame them.

[KSE Comedy Club]

Yeh, it's being reported that he is open to a move there.

Lol us in the market.

We have to go in with the right bid today or we miss out on another top target.

City are cunts though, buying another midfielder they don't need.

[Chippy]

Yeh, it's being reported that he is open to a move there.

Lol us in the market.

We have to go in with the right bid today or we miss out on another top target.

City are cunts though, buying another midfielder they don't need.
I know that many of us are saying Rice is not worth £100m, however, this will be a severe kick in the bollocks if City get him.

[Marc Overmars]

I know that many of us are saying Rice is not worth £100m, however, this will be a severe kick in the bollocks if City get him.

More than a kick in the bollocks.

We’re already known to be rank amateurs so this would just exacerbate that perception. Joke club.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I know that many of us are saying Rice is not worth £100m, however, this will be a severe kick in the bollocks if City get him.

If we don't get Rice or Caicedo and end up with Kai Havertz who nobody was after, we really need to consider the positions some of the management we have in this club.

Yes, it worked fine for us in January, but in any other walk of life, you'd be sacked if you kept on missing identified targets.... On a lighter note, the drama is a bit funny though :lol:

[Chippy]

If we don't get Rice or Caicedo and end up with Kai Havertz who nobody was after, we really need to consider some of the management we have in this club.

Yes, it worked fine for us in January, but in any other walk of life, you'd be sacked if kept on missing identified targets.... On a lighter note, the drama is a bit funny though :lol:
Still waiting to see the funny side tbh:sulk:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeh, it's being reported that he is open to a move there.

Lol us in the market.

We have to go in with the right bid today or we miss out on another top target.

City are cunts though, buying another midfielder they don't need.


Bernardo Silva and Gundogan are leaving, they probably do need another midfielder. Although Rice is a downgrade on both and I don’t even rate Gundogan

[HCZ_Reborn]

I really don’t get this pearl clutching histrionics

People are still smarting over the Mudryk thing as if Chelsea didn’t do us a massive favour

Ultimately though, whilst KSE holds the purse strings it’s going to be like this….no point getting stroppy over it

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Still waiting to see the funny side tbh:sulk:

Well we're "The Joke" when it comes to transfer dealings...yeah we might be doing well in other important aspects (even thats debatable) but we have consistently showed we don't know what we are doing especially when it comes to supposed "marquee" signings.

So just another example, I'd say Pepe has underperformed in regards to expectations as much as Kai Havertz. To make this argument I decided to take a peek at their stats. Pepe, an attacking midfielder turned winger has played 80 games for us and scored 19 goals. Havertz, a no 9 apparently, has played 91 games for Chelsea and scored 19 goals!!

To make matters worse we are begging Chelsea to accept 65m for a player no one else is chasing...a paltry loss to them of 10m for those abysmal stats. Can someone please tell me the highest offer we've got for Pepe so far??

And like I've mentioned earlier, that cash will make sure Plan B, Caicedo never happens!!

So really if you can't laugh at our transfers Tzars, then you'll probably be looking to go down for GBH or something.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well the only thing I will say in respect of Pepe is that the man responsible for that deal Raul Sanhelhi is no longer at the club

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Good, so we can't blame him for funding Chelsea to kill our Plan B when we haven't even actualised plan A.

It just seems so basic.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Good, so we can't blame him for funding Chelsea to kill our Plan B when we haven't even actualised plan A.

It just seems so basic.


Nothing stopping us from bidding on Caicedo

I see that City have offered the same amount of money we have for Rice but over a shorter time frame

[Chippy]

Well we're "The Joke" when it comes to transfer dealings...yeah we might be doing well in other important aspects (even thats debatable) but we have consistently showed we don't know what we are doing especially when it comes to supposed "marquee" signings.

So just another example, I'd say Pepe has underperformed in regards to expectations as much as Kai Havertz. To make this argument I decided to take a peek at their stats. Pepe, an attacking midfielder turned winger has played 80 games for us and scored 19 goals. Havertz, a no 9 apparently, has played 91 games for Chelsea and scored 19 goals!!

To make matters worse we are begging Chelsea to accept 65m for a player no one else is chasing...a paltry loss to them of 10m for those abysmal stats. Can someone please tell me the highest offer we've got for Pepe so far??

And like I've mentioned earlier, that cash will make sure Plan B, Caicedo never happens!!

So really if you can't laugh at our transfers Tzars, then you'll probably be looking to go down for GBH or something.
Ok, I see it now :lol:

[Letters]

I really don’t get this pearl clutching histrionics
Are you new here?

(But yes, it is ridiculous)

[selassie]

I know that many of us are saying Rice is not worth £100m, however, this will be a severe kick in the bollocks if City get him.

Blame it on Edu and Garlick. We have form for this, putting in bids with unrealistic add-ons. The fee we are happy to pay, the structure we are struggling with and we struggled with it with Mudryk hence why he ended up at Chelsea.

What baffles me is that we have been negotiating around the table with West Ham now for the best part of 2 weeks yet don't seem to understand what we need to do to close this deal.

We don't have recent history of winning the Big prizes so it's pointless putting clauses into deals like "10 Mill if we win CL" or "5 Mill if we win PL", we need to be structuring our deals based on "the number of performances the player makes for us" or "finishing in the top 4" or something like that. We aren't comparable to any of the other top 4 clubs right now and clubs aren't taking us seriously because the add-ons in their eyes and most people's eyes are not achievable.

If we don't have the budget to complete the deal with reasonable add-ons, walk away and pursue a player we can actually afford.

[selassie]

I really don’t get this pearl clutching histrionics

People are still smarting over the Mudryk thing as if Chelsea didn’t do us a massive favour

Ultimately though, whilst KSE holds the purse strings it’s going to be like this….no point getting stroppy over it

We seem to be shopping in a market that we can't afford. If we really want the player then we need to be aggressive in our negotiations and lay down the money, I don't literally mean give them 120million, but we need to be structuring the payments in their favour and any add-ons need to be realistic.

There is a reason why these deals drag on for us, the selling clubs do not believe that they will receive the 15million or whatever it is in add-ons because we have no recent history of winning anything major.

If City put forward the same offer West Ham would bite their hand off as City have recent history of winning everything so West Ham will be confident they will receive the add-ons, in our case this is not the case.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Again the structure of the payments is commonplace and these add ons are always a part of any deal

The trouble is the time between making offers, if Garlick and Edu had a free hand to make these offers they wouldn’t presumably offer them five days apart…so a lot of it comes down to getting the green light from the owner.

I think people don’t want to believe this because it’s more comforting to believe if we get in better people than Garlick and Edu that the process will speed up, but the fact remains that we get beaten to signings by clubs that have a clear heedless approach to transfers.

[Mac76]

He is no where near the level of Odegaard either :shrug:

This

[Mac76]

Again the structure of the payments is commonplace and these add ons are always a part of any deal

The trouble is the time between making offers, if Garlick and Edu had a free hand to make these offers they wouldn’t presumably offer them five days apart…so a lot of it comes down to getting the green light from the owner.

I think people don’t want to believe this because it’s more comforting to believe if we get in better people than Garlick and Edu that the process will speed up, but the fact remains that we get beaten to signings by clubs that have a clear heedless approach to transfers.

Blaming the owners doesn't work for me, I think the gaps are Arsenal trying to play hard ball when actually they have no leverage really

This window is looking like a farce, with the only potential upside being that our Plan B re signings will actually turn out to have been what Plan A should have been, as it was in January.

Hell, maybe that's the game we're playing all along but I doubt it, I just don't credit Edu and Arteta with that much nous

[HCZ_Reborn]

Blaming the owners doesn't work for me, I think the gaps are Arsenal trying to play hard ball when actually they have no leverage really

This window is looking like a farce, with the only potential upside being that our Plan B re signings will actually turn out to have been what Plan A should have been, as it was in January.

Hell, maybe that's the game we're playing all along but I doubt it, I just don't credit Edu and Arteta with that much nous


You’re right the club is trying to play hard ball, but that’s at the owners behest

I have no more love for Edu than I do for Arteta so no desire to defend him, but I believe the simplest explanation is the most likely and Fabrizio Romano who is usually on the money is the one who reported it, now it could be excuse making on Edu and Garlick’s part but why would KSE put up with them putting that out there.

It makes complete sense, we absolutely are financially dependent on KSE, and whilst they have been very generous in what they’ve given us the last few years…. Seems unlikely they are going to allow us to make big player purchases without being consulted on it.

Kroenke is in America, he is far more committed personally to the Rams, The Nuggets and The Rapids but it’s unlikely his son has the authority to give us the go ahead

[selassie]

Again the structure of the payments is commonplace and these add ons are always a part of any deal

The trouble is the time between making offers, if Garlick and Edu had a free hand to make these offers they wouldn’t presumably offer them five days apart…so a lot of it comes down to getting the green light from the owner.

I think people don’t want to believe this because it’s more comforting to believe if we get in better people than Garlick and Edu that the process will speed up, but the fact remains that we get beaten to signings by clubs that have a clear heedless approach to transfers.

Add-ons need to be realistic. They need to be achievable or at least believable. If Brighton attempt to buy a player off us and propose add-ons totalling 15 million with stuff such as "Win CL or Win PL" we would laugh them out of town. This is what we are doing to clubs in the big deals we are trying to close, given our recent history, past 15 years, putting forward add-ons like this in deals is seen as "Pie In The Sky", it's why Shaktar refused to sell us Mudryk and why we are now struggling to close the Rice Deal.

It's more about our approach to the big deals and how Garlick and Edu are handling them, not our approach to the market in general. We can close those mid range deals quite easily (Jesus, Zinchenko etc), it's the Big deals where you are dealing with big figures where you need to be realistic in your approach that we fail at.

[selassie]

Blaming the owners doesn't work for me, I think the gaps are Arsenal trying to play hard ball when actually they have no leverage really

This window is looking like a farce, with the only potential upside being that our Plan B re signings will actually turn out to have been what Plan A should have been, as it was in January.

Hell, maybe that's the game we're playing all along but I doubt it, I just don't credit Edu and Arteta with that much nous

Yeah this is my opinion on it too.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Add-ons need to be realistic. They need to be achievable or at least believable. If Brighton attempt to buy a player off us and propose add-ons totalling 15 million with stuff such as "Win CL or Win PL" we would laugh them out of town. This is what we are doing to clubs in the big deals we are trying to close, given our recent history, past 15 years, putting forward add-ons like this in deals is seen as "Pie In The Sky", it's why Shaktar refused to sell us Mudryk and why we are now struggling to close the Rice Deal.

It's more about our approach to the big deals and how Garlick and Edu are handling them, not our approach to the market in general. We can close those mid range deals quite easily (Jesus, Zinchenko etc), it's the Big deals where you are dealing with big figures where you need to be realistic in your approach that we fail at.


The add ons would have included premier league win etc but they are mostly minimum amount of appearances, plus it begs the question if buying players for that kind of money doesn’t make winning a title over the period of the players contract a realistic prospect what’s the point of spending that much money on them to begin with.

As I’ve said, I can understand why fans want Garlick and Edu to be the ones to blame because that way there is hope that if they are replaced there is a more speedy approach but I just don’t see why that would be the case.

In fact Rice is only the third player we’ve bid for of such high value under those two. Mudryk there was just no way we should ever have paid what Shatkah were asking, and with Brighton we could have bid twice what we did and they wouldn’t have sold him in January.

West Ham have made our bids public in order to get the attention of other clubs and the reason they’ve done this is because they have issues with FFP themselves.

It’s been in their interest to create a bidding war, and short of giving them 100million up front and one of our players (even if we could afford to do that fuck right off) they have wanted to drag this out to get City, United involved.

I’m not blaming them for that, it’s good business sense from their point of view. But when everyone on here agrees that we need to strengthen in terms of numbers it’s totally illogical to think we should stump up whatever the selling club wants

[Niall_Quinn]

Havertz is £50m over 3 instalments and then £15m of add-ons

That's literally ludicrous. Obviously this is some sort of money laundering scheme designed to suck as much money from the pockets of fans into the offshore accounts of the unscrupulous con-artists who pose as necessary representatives of the stupid children who pose as football players. Sure, if you can get it then take it. But it's as immoral as fuck. Players who can barely kick a ball being traded like meat so fat, useless bastards who nobody would pay to see get huge payments. That's the number one reason football exists today.

[dostoy]

Why are Arsenal not after Tonali?

Surely he would rather come to London than the North East.

Far cheaper than Rice as well.

[selassie]

The add ons would have included premier league win etc but they are mostly minimum amount of appearances, plus it begs the question if buying players for that kind of money doesn’t make winning a title over the period of the players contract a realistic prospect what’s the point of spending that much money on them to begin with.

As I’ve said, I can understand why fans want Garlick and Edu to be the ones to blame because that way there is hope that if they are replaced there is a more speedy approach but I just don’t see why that would be the case.

In fact Rice is only the third player we’ve bid for of such high value under those two. Mudryk there was just no way we should ever have paid what Shatkah were asking, and with Brighton we could have bid twice what we did and they wouldn’t have sold him in January.

West Ham have made our bids public in order to get the attention of other clubs and the reason they’ve done this is because they have issues with FFP themselves.

It’s been in their interest to create a bidding war, and short of giving them 100million up front and one of our players (even if we could afford to do that fuck right off) they have wanted to drag this out to get City, United involved.

I’m not blaming them for that, it’s good business sense from their point of view. But when everyone on here agrees that we need to strengthen in terms of numbers it’s totally illogical to think we should stump up whatever the selling club wants

Well it's been widely reported that both Shaktar and now West Ham have said the add-ons in the deal we have proposed have been unrealistic and in their eyes not achievable. Both clubs have gone Public with this, I see no reason not to believe them given the amounts we are offering, it's not like we aren't putting down a big fee.

No we failed to secure Mudryk due to the add-ons, we offered exactly the same as Chelsea except that Chelsea's add-ons were a lot more realistic. We are coming from a position of not having won anything major in a long time, we need to be a bit more creative with the add-ons we are offering, it's seems to be a common theme, see above regarding Shaktar.

I agree with you on the Caicedo deal and them not wanting to sell him at the time, but i still felt we wasted time pursuing that deal when it was clear they had no intention of selling.

I don't think West Ham do want a bidding war, this issue has nothing to do with the money, it's to do with the way we are structuring the deal with the add-ons!!! That's what West Ham are not happy about hence why we are continuing the negotiations. This isn't about them wanting 150million and us offering 100million, they want the 100million, but they want the deal structured fairly or at least realistically.

If we want to play in the "BIG BOY MARKET" then we are going to need to approach these deals like a "BIG CLUB". Otherwise what's the point? This is the point I am trying to make, it's not about us not being competitive in the Market because we clearly are these days, it's about our inability to close the BIG deals, not the mid range deals.

[selassie]

Why are Arsenal not after Tonali?

Surely he would rather come to London than the North East.

Far cheaper than Rice as well.

Tonali isn't all that. He broke through and looked great but has stalled in his development. Newcastle have massively overpaid IMO. Barella is the Italian Midfielder who looks the business but I reckon he would cost similar to Rice if Inter ever sanctioned his sale.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well it's been widely reported that both Shaktar and now West Ham have said the add-ons in the deal we have proposed have been unrealistic and in their eyes not achievable. Both clubs have gone Public with this, I see no reason not to believe them given the amounts we are offering, it's not like we aren't putting down a big fee.

No we failed to secure Mudryk due to the add-ons, we offered exactly the same as Chelsea except that Chelsea's add-ons were a lot more realistic. We are coming from a position of not having won anything major in a long time, we need to be a bit more creative with the add-ons we are offering, it's seems to be a common theme, see above regarding Shaktar.

I agree with you on the Caicedo deal and them not wanting to sell him at the time, but i still felt we wasted time pursuing that deal when it was clear they had no intention of selling.

I don't think West Ham do want a bidding war, this issue has nothing to do with the money, it's to do with the way we are structuring the deal with the add-ons!!! That's what West Ham are not happy about hence why we are continuing the negotiations. This isn't about them wanting 150million and us offering 100million, they want the 100million, but they want the deal structured fairly or at least realistically.

If we want to play in the "BIG BOY MARKET" then we are going to need to approach these deals like a "BIG CLUB". Otherwise what's the point? This is the point I am trying to make, it's not about us not being competitive in the Market because we clearly are these days, it's about our inability to close the BIG deals, not the mid range deals.


I honestly at this point don’t know where you’re coming from

Of course West Ham want a bidding war, it’s simple economics demand for the players services will invariably up the price…when a club is public about wanting 120 million for a player they must know that’s not realistic if it’s just one club after him…what leverage do they then have to offer such an amount?

Shatkah are the same, this is a club that will want to squeeze every bit of money from a club for a player, they are in a precarious situation. Because of the Russian occupation of the Donbass that’s essentially been going on for almost a decade…they haven’t been able to get any revenue from a relatively newly built stadium which has mainly become a place for derelicts to piss, that plus they have had to play in Lviv or Kyiv and pay to do so.

City’s offer hasn’t been accepted, and it’s debatable whether they will be prepared to go higher.


If by big boy clubs you mean Chelsea where a completely deranged owner has spent ridiculous amounts of money for players who have turned out to be sub par, or United who have won fuck all despite having a larger wage bill than City. No I’m content with what we are doing. The fact is to a degree the power is with selling clubs but unless you’re a complete retard like Todd Boehly you don’t dance to their tune

[selassie]

I honestly at this point don’t know where you’re coming from

Of course West Ham want a bidding war, it’s simple economics demand for the players services will invariably up the price…when a club is public about wanting 120 million for a player they must know that’s not realistic if it’s just one club after him…what leverage do they then have to offer such an amount?

Shatkah are the same, this is a club that will want to squeeze every bit of money from a club for a player, they are in a precarious situation. Because of the Russian occupation of the Donbass that’s essentially been going on for almost a decade…they haven’t been able to get any revenue from a relatively newly built stadium which has mainly become a place for derelicts to piss, that plus they have had to play in Lviv or Kyiv and pay to do so.

City’s offer hasn’t been accepted, and it’s debatable whether they will be prepared to go higher.


If by big boy clubs you mean Chelsea where a completely deranged owner has spent ridiculous amounts of money for players who have turned out to be sub par, or United who have won fuck all despite having a larger wage bill than City. No I’m content with what we are doing. The fact is to a degree the power is with selling clubs but unless you’re a complete retard like Todd Boehly you don’t dance to their tune

I am not sure how many times I need to explain myself!!!

We are not failing to close these deals over valuation gaps!!! We are failing to close these deals because the selling clubs do not like how we are structuring the deals (time period for payments) and the add-ons we are putting forward which the selling clubs think are unachievable!

Chelsea did not outbid us for Mudryk, they offered the exactly the same amount but structured the deal more favourably with in Shaktar's eyes more realistic add-ons.

West Ham have been very clear in this and said Rice is free to go if a club meets their valuation and that they are happy with the deal. Our 2 offers that have been rejected so far have both been slightly below the valuation, but not only that they did not like the structure of the deal and said the add-ons were unrealistic, pretty much a mirror image of our issues with Shaktar aside from the fact we met their valuation.

My point about the big boys, isn't about copying Chelsea or City or whoever, it's about when you enter this top end market for a player, the deals are completely different due to the big sums of money being transferred, not just in football in any profession. We are clearly not approaching these deals like a big player, hence why two clubs now have said that the add-ons we have put forward have been unrealistic.

We can make this sound as complicated as possible and almost impossible but on the face of it we must know by now what West Ham want and roughly how they would like it structured. If we don't have the budget (bigger payments made over a shorter time period) then we should move on and shop in a more affordable market. There is a reason why we don't struggle to close deals such as Jesus, Zinchenko, Havertz etc

Example: If you offer 100million for a player but propose to spread the payments over 6 years, that's a lot different to offering the same but spreading it over say 3 years. That can make or break a deal.

[Marc Overmars]

Why are Arsenal not after Tonali?

Surely he would rather come to London than the North East.

Far cheaper than Rice as well.

It’s funny because for years we rarely signed anyone from the PL under Wenger.

Now it looks like we only want players from the PL.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I am not sure how many times I need to explain myself!!!

We are not failing to close these deals over valuation gaps!!! We are failing to close these deals because the selling clubs do not like how we are structuring the deals (time period for payments) and the add-ons we are putting forward which the selling clubs think are unachievable!

Chelsea did not outbid us for Mudryk, they offered the exactly the same amount but structured the deal more favourably with in Shaktar's eyes more realistic add-ons.

West Ham have been very clear in this and said Rice is free to go if a club meets their valuation and that they are happy with the deal. Our 2 offers that have been rejected so far have both been slightly below the valuation, but not only that they did not like the structure of the deal and said the add-ons were unrealistic, pretty much a mirror image of our issues with Shaktar aside from the fact we met their valuation.

My point about the big boys, isn't about copying Chelsea or City or whoever, it's about when you enter this top end market for a player, the deals are completely different due to the big sums of money being transferred, not just in football in any profession. We are clearly not approaching these deals like a big player, hence why two clubs now have said that the add-ons we have put forward have been unrealistic.

We can make this sound as complicated as possible and almost impossible but on the face of it we must know by now what West Ham want and roughly how they would like it structured. If we don't have the budget (bigger payments made over a shorter time period) then we should move on and shop in a more affordable market. There is a reason why we don't struggle to close deals such as Jesus, Zinchenko, Havertz etc

Example: If you offer 100million for a player but propose to spread the payments over 6 years, that's a lot different to offering the same but spreading it over say 3 years. That can make or break a deal.


You can explain yourself as many times as you like.

I don’t think we got anywhere near the valuation Shaktah placed on Mudryk, even with add ons what we offered did not amount to 88.5million which is what Chelsea’s deal for him amounted to.

I’m sorry you don’t like this but it is quite standard to pay off the transfer fee for a player over the length of the players contract, Amortisation works as an insurance policy in this regard.

And as I’ve said before the reason selling clubs make these offers public is because they want to leverage the most amount of money they can get from the buying club, whether that’s in cash up front or in the overall amount of the transfer fee.

What we did wrong with Mudryk was that we hung around too long hoping that the player wanting to come to us would force Shatkah’s hand that I agree was amateurish and we should have immediately moved on.

I sincerely hope we’ve learnt from this with West Ham, and if the third bid isn’t enough…walk away.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It’s funny because for years we rarely signed anyone from the PL under Wenger.

Now it looks like we only want players from the PL.

Couldn’t afford to

With the premier league you’re paying high prices for a player you know can perform at the required level.

To be honest, I wish we’d do more shopping abroad.

[Mac76]

Why are Arsenal not after Tonali?


I guess we're Tonali deaf :rimshot:

[Mac76]

Couldn’t afford to

With the premier league you’re paying high prices for a player you know can perform at the required level.

To be honest, I wish we’d do more shopping abroad.

Maybe Tavares and Lokonga put them off

[Letters]

I guess we're Tonali deaf :rimshot:

:lol:

Nice.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Maybe Tavares and Lokonga put them off

I actually like Tavares, I mean he can’t defend but neither can Zinchenko and he didn’t cost us 30+ million

[Chippy]

Looks like Rice is City bound. FFS.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You can explain yourself as many times as you like.

I don’t think we got anywhere near the valuation Shaktah placed on Mudryk, even with add ons what we offered did not amount to 88.5million which is what Chelsea’s deal for him amounted to.

I’m sorry you don’t like this but it is quite standard to pay off the transfer fee for a player over the length of the players contract, Amortisation works as an insurance policy in this regard.

And as I’ve said before the reason selling clubs make these offers public is because they want to leverage the most amount of money they can get from the buying club, whether that’s in cash up front or in the overall amount of the transfer fee.

What we did wrong with Mudryk was that we hung around too long hoping that the player wanting to come to us would force Shatkah’s hand that I agree was amateurish and we should have immediately moved on.

I sincerely hope we’ve learnt from this with West Ham, and if the third bid isn’t enough…walk away.


What you stated in bold is a falsehood which I am almost certain you've been corrected on in the past. Our bid (or should I say valuation ) ended up being the same as Chelsea's, it was confirmed at the time from numerous sources and reconfirmed a few days later by a party actually directly involved in it.


In an interview with The Athletic, Palkin revealed that Shakhtar rejected a bid from Arsenal which, including add-ons, matched Chelsea's £88m bid.
He said: 'When they (Arsenal) proposed the final offer of €70million (£62m) plus €30million (£26m) in add-ons, we sat down and started to talk internally about how it will be fulfilled in terms of the payments, the fixed part and the bonus issues.'We realised we will not close this deal (with Arsenal). I said to Edu (the Gunners sporting director) that I did my best but it was not possible.'

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11643627/amp/Arsenal-MATCHED-Chelseas-bid-Mykhailo-Mudryk-Gunners-no-chance-close.html

Like Selassie has said severally, unrealistic add-ons (coupled with poor structuring) was/is our problem in these dealings and the Shakatar CEO re-echoed this. I mean everyone can't be telling lies.

Again on a lighter note, where were these ridiculous add ons when we really needed them, i.e. Pepe....Lille would have been the ones crying over last season and not us :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

What you stated in bold is a falsehood which I am almost certain you've been corrected on in the past. Our bid (or should I say valuation ) ended up being the same as Chelsea's, it was confirmed at the time from numerous sources and reconfirmed a few days later by a party actually directly involved in it.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-11643627/amp/Arsenal-MATCHED-Chelseas-bid-Mykhailo-Mudryk-Gunners-no-chance-close.html

Like Selassie has said severally, unrealistic add ons was/is our problem in these dealings and the Shakatar CEO re-echoed this. I mean everyone can't be telling lies.

Again on a lighter note, where were these ridiculous add ons when we really needed them, i.e. Pepe....Lille would have been the ones crying over last season and not us :lol:

Unrealistic add on, you mean like winning the title? Which you clearly told me at the time we were favourites for?

Ultimately either way if Chelsea paid more up front then they outbid us for him. Especially if more of the money we offered was contingency based. And I’m glad they did

I also find it hilarious how you complain about Nicolas Pepe and yet bemoan the structure of our payments and the add ons. Frankly unless the add on clause is for the player achieving world peace, it’s not ridiculously unrealistic to add premier league or even European cup winning add on clauses.

If City want a downgrade on Gundogan and want to pay more cash up front let them do so.

Either way it’s still clear that both Shatkah and West Ham wanted a bidding war. Otherwise neither would have got the amount they are looking for. At most it appears West Ham will get 90million for Rice. And If City get their offer accepted before we come back with a third offer, it will again make it more likely that what I’ve said about KSE is correct.

Either way structured payments and add ons are an insurance policy and given what you’ve said about Pepe it’s something you know deep down is true.

Whoever is in charge of negotiating transfers at the club I don’t see how that will change either so you’re bemoaning the rising of the tide

[HCZ_Reborn]

Looks like Rice is City bound. FFS.

Good, finally can end this pointless fucking saga and move on

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://twitter.com/arsenalbuzzcom/status/1672000617424756736?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw

If that’s genuinely what it will take to prise him from West Ham, I’m actually hoping it’s City that do get him…

Well no that’s a lie…I hope City get him anyway. Don’t want him, never have.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

More on this, buttressing what Selassie said:


WHY DID MUDRYK JOIN CHELSEA OVER ARSENAL? The Gunners' interest in Mudryk was made clear in the summer of 2022, and he reportedly agreed personal terms on deadline day, but the move failed to materialise. They returned for him this winter but failed with a bid at the beginning of the month before being edged out at the finish line by rivals Chelsea. Palkin went on to explain why Chelsea's final offer was "more serious" than Arsenal's with regards to the set up of bonuses. "Different time (schedule) of the payments, different kinds of bonuses," he said. "Yes, we can talk about bonuses, but these bonuses should be somehow achievable and realistic, let’s say. Therefore, in this case, Chelsea was much more serious and fair in some points."

more


Palkin was also asked if Mudryk's contract at Chelsea includes a Ballon d'Or clause, to which he replied: "Chelsea’s offer has no Ballon d’Or (clause). It is achievable bonuses that we feel, and they feel, can be reached. Maybe not this year but in the next two, three or four years."

Palkin did, however, confirm that Shakhtar will receive bonus payments if Mudryk wins the Premier League or Champions League during his time in west London. "Yes. It has these kinds of bonuses," he said.
https://www.goal.com/en/news/explained-why-mudryk-joined-chelsea-over-arsenal-despite-offering-identical-gbp89m-transfer-fee/bltd34f3d4bfe52ecc4

Who knows, maybe if we had actually finished the job and won the league this season West Ham wouldn't be getting so wound up about us inserting these kind of clauses.... really, who could have guessed that failure would have such an expensive price ?!

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Good, finally can end this pointless fucking saga and move on

Its funny, but something tells me we'll sail this one through (player power will undoubtedly help here)....I'm just whinging because I detest drama and the fact that we obviously haven't learnt any lessons at all.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Its funny, but something tells me we'll sail this one through (player power will undoubtedly help here)....I'm just whinging because I detest drama and the fact that we obviously haven't learnt any lessons at all.

For clearly different reasons we agree about the lesson learning thing

Should have walked away from the Mudryk thing much earlier and with Rice as well

Yes he’d be a step up from Xhaka not no where near enough to pay anywhere near what West Ham want or miss out on Caicedo for especially if Partey is going

[HCZ_Reborn]

More on this, buttressing what Selassie said:



more


https://www.goal.com/en/news/explained-why-mudryk-joined-chelsea-over-arsenal-despite-offering-identical-gbp89m-transfer-fee/bltd34f3d4bfe52ecc4

Who knows, maybe if we had actually finished the job and won the league this season West Ham wouldn't be getting so wound up about us inserting these kind of clauses.... really, who could have guessed that failure would have such an expensive price ?!

They are getting wound up because they want as much money as possible. It would be hilarious if they ended up keeping him because no club was prepared to match their valuation

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Unrealistic add on, you mean like winning the title? Which you clearly told me at the time we were favourites for?

Ultimately either way if Chelsea paid more up front then they outbid us for him. Especially if more of the money we offered was contingency based. And I’m glad they did

I also find it hilarious how you complain about Nicolas Pepe and yet bemoan the structure of our payments and the add ons. Frankly unless the add on clause is for the player achieving world peace, it’s not ridiculously unrealistic to add premier league or even European cup winning add on clauses.

If City want a downgrade on Gundogan and want to pay more cash up front let them do so.

Either way it’s still clear that both Shatkah and West Ham wanted a bidding war. Otherwise neither would have got the amount they are looking for. At most it appears West Ham will get 90million for Rice. And If City get their offer accepted before we come back with a third offer, it will again make it more likely that what I’ve said about KSE is correct.

Either way structured payments and add ons are an insurance policy and given what you’ve said about Pepe it’s something you know deep down is true.

Whoever is in charge of negotiating transfers at the club I don’t see how that will change either so you’re bemoaning the rising of the tide

What you don't get is everyone feels like we are not serious nor humble enough when we start negotiating...and to be honest I get them.

We act like we're still "the big draw" and lesser clubs should be happy to sell their players to us.

For Mudryk, we tapped the player up and only negotiated with the club 6months later, drawing it out for a month or so. Chelsea (the club international fans have actually seen on tv), spoke only with the management and had their co-owner flyover to handle the deal.

With Rice, we've been all in the papers, mouthing off that he is our "No 1 priority", yet we know that West Ham would prefer a 100m+ or players come with the deal.

If you had asked me, I would have said we humble ourselves and go with Caicedo from the begining, seeing as Brighton's demands aren't that obscene...but now its going to be harder to backtrack because they'll feel slighted in how we made it clear their player wasn't important.

We should just stick with doing deals with our "rivals" who pity us and don't give us this much stress.

[Marc Overmars]

Looks like we’ll have to match or better City’s bid or this one could be done. I don’t think Caicedo is on our radar either should Rice go tits up which is quite disappointing.

I have no idea who else we would sign for CM so this is pretty shit tbh.

[HCZ_Reborn]

What you don't get is everyone feels like we are not serious nor humble enough when we start negotiating...and to be honest I get them.

We act like we're still "the big draw" and kesser clubs should be happy to sell their players to us.

For Mudryk, we tapped the player up and only negotiated with the club 6months later, drawing it out for a month or so. Chelsea (the club international fans have actually seen on tv), spoke only with the management and had their co-owner flyover to handle the deal.

With Rice, we've been all in the papers, mouthing off that he is our "No 1 priority", yet we know that West Ham would prefer a 100m+ or players come with the deal.

If you had asked me, I would have said we humble ourselves and go with Caicedo from the begining, seeing as Brighton's demands aren't that obscene...but now its going to be harder to backtrack because they'll feel slighted in how we made it clear there player wasn't important.

We should just stick with doing deals with our "rivals" who pity us and don't give us this much stress.

This just sounds like a load of whiny bollocks to be honest

If transfers stress you out this much, maybe you need to touch grass a bit

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

This just sounds like a load of whiny bollocks to be honest

If transfers stress you out this much, maybe you need to touch grass a bit

:lol: Don't worry, once the season starts, I'm sure Arteta will do his best to give me a mini stroke or something.

[Mac76]

This just sounds like a load of whiny bollocks to be honest

If transfers stress you out this much, maybe you need to touch grass a bit

It's a message board, it's here for people to, like, post stuff...

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's a message board, it's here for people to, like, post stuff...

You’ll have to point out where in that post you’ve quoted where I’ve directly told him not to post

I’ve inferred that to get this stressed out over transfers is not especially healthy and maybe needs to take a step back. That’s a suggestion not an injunction, and it in no way states that someone should either post less or not post what they feel (because that would be hypocrisy). It was a way of directly engaging with the fact that he’d said he hated the drama.
Well in the off season period, transfers are what sports journalists focus on to keep people reading.

You really need to get off your high horse

And given you constantly question what people post in the Currents BTW thread and infer motives that in most places don’t exist, it’s actually a liberty that you would post what you have here.

[Mac76]

You’ll have to point out where in that post you’ve quoted where I’ve directly told him not to post

I’ve inferred that to get this stressed out over transfers is not especially healthy and maybe needs to take a step back. That’s a suggestion not an injunction, and it in no way states that someone should either post less or not post what they feel (because that would be hypocrisy). It was a way of directly engaging with the fact that he’d said he hated the drama.
Well in the off season period, transfers are what sports journalists focus on to keep people reading.

You really need to get off your high horse

And given you constantly question what people post in the Currents BTW thread and infer motives that in most places don’t exist, it’s actually a liberty that you would post what you have here.

Now who's getting upset?

Your post to him was patronising and given you're often complaining about things in what you write, to accuse someone else of being whiny is hypocritical in the extreme

[HCZ_Reborn]

Now who's getting upset?

Your post to him was patronising and given you're often complaining about things in what you write, to accuse someone else of being whiny is hypocritical in the extreme

Again it’s not about complaining it’s directly about addressing the idea that these transfers are causing him stress. I can tell someone I don’t understand their complaints or don’t agree with them but I’m not telling anyone not to complain…I’m suggesting what someone should do if they are getting that wound up by a transfer saga.

It’s not patronising to say to someone who is so emotionally invested in something that in the grand scheme of things doesn’t really matter all that much, to “touch grass”.

And in fact the irony is, you’re telling me to not close down people expressing themselves and that’s exactly what you’re doing here. But in fairness that’s keeping with your personality in general.

[HCZ_Reborn]

And why would I be getting upset? If I didn’t enjoy arguing with people I wouldn’t respond to you, it wouldn’t be worth my while. It’s why I don’t debate with NQ it would be an utter waste of time.

But I wouldn’t mistake that for getting upset, I’m pointing out the ridiculousness of what you’re saying

[Mac76]

that’s keeping with your personality in general.

so here we get a sweeping statement which has no bearing on reality - where do i close people down? i agree,disagree, or add to what people say but it's only when i think someone else is being overbearing that i might just point it out

I didn't read any upsetness in what he posted, just giving a view that he doesn't trust the 'process', neither do I and neither do you

So my question is, why is it - as I'm sure you would argue - thoughtful criticism when you do say thigns like that, but it's 'whining' when someone else does?

[HCZ_Reborn]

so here we get a sweeping statement which has no bearing on reality - where do i close people down? i agree,disagree, or add to what people say but it's only when i think someone else is being overbearing that i might just point it out

I didn't read any upsetness in what he posted, just giving a view that he doesn't trust the 'process', neither do I and neither do you

So my question is, why is it - as I'm sure you would argue - thoughtful criticism when you do say thigns like that, but it's 'whining' when someone else does?


I’ve just pointed out exactly where you’ve done that

If someone wants to call what I have to say whiny bollocks they are free to do so, I don’t get precious about it. In my view complaining about clubs feeling disrespected by how we break down our transfer offers is whiny bollocks. Because it’s not like these add ons and instalments are likely any different from what we offer clubs in successful transfer negotiations but we don’t get to hear about it….case in point with Donkey Boy it’s a deal worth 65 million.

And as I’ve said the whole touching grass thing was in response to the fact that he stated he found the drama stressful. As I say there’s a clear difference between complaining as part of making an argument and complaining about how it’s affecting your mental health.


And to your point where if I complain it’s thoughtful and when other people do it it’s querulous, well of course…I’m going to think my argument well reasoned and one’s I disagree with petulant ranting. I never once claimed to be impartial

[HCZ_Reborn]

Its funny, but something tells me we'll sail this one through (player power will undoubtedly help here)....I'm just whinging because I detest drama and the fact that we obviously haven't learnt any lessons at all.

Case in point this was what I was responding to.

I detest Drama

Well great….it’s only Drama if you respond dramatically to it

[HCZ_Reborn]

Anyway I’ve got work to do, so to summarise it comes down to you disagreeing with how you think I took a post…and ironically trying to police my posting whilst arguing that’s what I’m doing.

And as I’ve stated if you go through the current btw or other non Arsenal threads there are replete examples of you doing this, but I suspect you aren’t even aware of it.

And only now has it dripped into the Arsenal side of things.

[Mac76]

And to your point where if I complain it’s thoughtful and when other people do it it’s querulous, well of course…I’m going to think my argument well reasoned and one’s I disagree with petulant ranting. I never once claimed to be impartial

why do you have to classify another POV as 'petulant ranting', can't it just be a 'different opinion' or something less emotionally charged?

[HCZ_Reborn]

why do you have to classify another POV as 'petulant ranting', can't it just be a 'different opinion' or something less emotionally charged?

:haha:

I think you’ve proved my point, you started out by saying this is a place where people come and post maybe you should let people post. And you’re now saying why are you posting this?


I’m calling it how I see it, I think a lot of these arguments about how we conduct transfer negotiations are querulous. Ultimately it boils down to getting upset (or frustrated if upset is a trigger word for you) because we aren’t getting things done quicker.

People are free to express their frustration just as I’m free to call it how I view it

[Mac76]

:haha:

I think you’ve proved my point, you started out by saying this is a place where people come and post maybe you should let people post. And you’re now saying why are you posting this?


I think you're misreading my questions as instructions - you can obviously post what you like (as long as the mods don't see harm in it) I'm just asking about why you use terms which on the surface of it are derogatory to the other poster, when you could just as easily say the same things in a different way - it's called a civilised conversation

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think you're misreading my questions as instructions - you can obviously post what you like (as long as the mods don't see harm in it) I'm just asking about why you use terms which on the surface of it are derogatory to the other poster, when you could just as easily say the same things in a different way - it's called a civilised conversation

No I’m using your logic against you

If me suggesting someone touch grass to avoid the stress of transfer drama is trying to police someone’s posting, then what you’re doing is exactly that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

However although I’ve already answered your question, I’m happy to do so again

If I don’t respect an argument I’m not going to pretend I do. For example, whilst I agreed with you that Arteta has a knack of falling out with players, I thought your supposed evidence of it happening again because of a ten second clip where he doesn’t shake Trossard’s hand was laughable, now actually I would have left it at that but you were so confounded by the fact that no one really thought it worth bothering to reply to that I thought I’d let you know how ridiculous I found it.

I’ve had plenty of people here mock arguments I’ve made if they think they are silly. Usually I will try and justify why I think they aren’t…but the important thing is I neither know or care about any of you enough to actually worry what you think of me. My only concern is being right/winning an argument.

This idea that we share any camaraderie because we support the same club is a nonsense, as is the idea that I owe you or anyone owes me any respect or even courtesy.


And to pre-empt any come back in the ball park of “what do you get out of being a prick?”. Actually quite a lot, in fact quite the same as what you and others get out of venting. Real life doesn’t afford you the opportunity to be condescending and insulting to exasperating people, I have to keep it to myself when people say things I regard as idiotic….here I don’t have to. Very therapeutic

[dostoy]

Haven't some of you got better things to do ?

No-one on here knows exactly what is going on so why spend so much time on it.

Wait and see what happens and enjoy the break from all the football crap that goes on about 10 months of the year.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Haven't some of you got better things to do ?

No-one on here knows exactly what is going on so why spend so much time on it.

Wait and see what happens and enjoy the break from all the football crap that goes on about 10 months of the year.

Well In a way this is kind of what I’ve argued

And yes technically I have something better to do, the job I’m paid to do but this is my escapism from the tedium

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

And to pre-empt any come back in the ball park of “what do you get out of being a prick?”. Actually quite a lot, in fact quite the same as what you and others get out of venting. Real life doesn’t afford you the opportunity to be condescending and insulting to exasperating people, I have to keep it to myself when people say things I regard as idiotic….here I don’t have to. Very therapeutic

:haha:

[LDG]

:haha:

WUMing in other words.

Thought as much.

Most likely a spud

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

WUMing in other words.

Thought as much.

Most likely a spud

Would explain why he never thought we could/should win the league, even before the great collapse.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Would explain why he never thought we could/should win the league, even before the great collapse.

Saying that we weren’t favourites after 18 games = never thought we should/could win the league

If you’re going to paint a target on your back by making ridiculous statements (like these) I don’t think I can be held responsible for firing arrows at you.

If you were actually retarded it would be just cruel, and whilst the difference between being a retard and being so heavily invested in your own narrative that you get high on your own fumes is subtle, there is a difference.

But if accusing me of being a spurs fan helps you cope, rather than confronting the fact that there’s often a lack of logic or reality to your arguments…and a lot of it boils down to tantrum throwing…well you do you.

Though maybe ask yourself how the fact that City haven’t even bid for Rice yet (it’s only been reported that they will bid and what that bid might be) fits into this idea that other clubs are much more ruthless than we are at conducting transfer negotiations

[Mac76]

However although I’ve already answered your question, I’m happy to do so again

If I don’t respect an argument I’m not going to pretend I do. For example, whilst I agreed with you that Arteta has a knack of falling out with players, I thought your supposed evidence of it happening again because of a ten second clip where he doesn’t shake Trossard’s hand was laughable, now actually I would have left it at that but you were so confounded by the fact that no one really thought it worth bothering to reply to that I thought I’d let you know how ridiculous I found it.

I’ve had plenty of people here mock arguments I’ve made if they think they are silly. Usually I will try and justify why I think they aren’t…but the important thing is I neither know or care about any of you enough to actually worry what you think of me. My only concern is being right/winning an argument.

This idea that we share any camaraderie because we support the same club is a nonsense, as is the idea that I owe you or anyone owes me any respect or even courtesy.


And to pre-empt any come back in the ball park of “what do you get out of being a prick?”. Actually quite a lot, in fact quite the same as what you and others get out of venting. Real life doesn’t afford you the opportunity to be condescending and insulting to exasperating people, I have to keep it to myself when people say things I regard as idiotic….here I don’t have to. Very therapeutic

So - a troll then

Makes sense

[HCZ_Reborn]

So - a troll then

Makes sense

Awww you’re dogpiling on me…that really gets me in the feels :loveblush:

No not Trolling, Trolling would suggest that my statements were purely intended to get a response. I consider that at most a fringe benefit. Yes there is the same pathology of online disinhibition involved but the motive is distinctly different.

I don’t get why it’s so hard to understand why if you think someone is being stupid or petulant you shouldn’t just say so?

Trying to find a hidden motivation when I’m openly telling you what I’m doing also seems self defeating

[HCZ_Reborn]

£120m for Rice is insane..makes no sense paying more than £80m for anyone doing his role IMO.

I mean £120m and adding a bit of change we could make teue statement signings like Osimehen, Kvaradona or even Bellingham.

The Hammers obviously don't want to sell and will lose him for change later.


Gosh, I really wish I bothered going back on these threads more

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Saying that we weren’t favourites after 18 games = never thought we should/could win the league

If you’re going to paint a target on your back by making ridiculous statements (like these) I don’t think I can be held responsible for firing arrows at you.

If you were actually retarded it would be just cruel, and whilst the difference between being a retard and being so heavily invested in your own narrative that you get high on your own fumes is subtle, there is a difference.

But if accusing me of being a spurs fan helps you cope, rather than confronting the fact that there’s often a lack of logic or reality to your arguments…and a lot of it boils down to tantrum throwing…well you do you.

Though maybe ask yourself how the fact that City haven’t even bid for Rice yet (it’s only been reported that they will bid and what that bid might be) fits into this idea that other clubs are much more ruthless than we are at conducting transfer negotiations

Duuuuude, why so angry, it's just a POV.

You could just say "No, I'm not a Spud" leaving out all the drama :lol:

You really are special aren't you :)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Duuuuude, why so angry, it's just a POV.

You could just say "No, I'm not a Spud" leaving out all the drama :lol:

You really are special aren't you :)


Bizarre that you’ve assumed anger. I will admit that I find some of your tantrum throwing exasperating and that’s why I made a conscious decision to avoid having children but anger? I’m not even being spiteful…just honest

[HCZ_Reborn]

Anyway the fact that City haven’t made a bid yet rather solidifies my belief that West Ham are playing games in order to get us to pay what they want for Rice. I’m sure City have actually made enquiries but one suspects they aren’t prepared to pay what West Ham want either.

And given I quote posted a message from you back in April where you agree with me that Rice was absolutely not worth the money West Ham wanted, it feels a little bit strange that you would throw Teddy out of the pram when it transpires that we don’t want to pay what they’ve asked. Ultimately either we aren’t in a position or are inclined to offer vast amounts of cash as a down payment for a player….the structure and add ons that you bemoan are a) likely to be how we break down most transfer offers and b) in likelihood how most clubs do business unless you’re Chelsea with a retarded owner.

But what do I know……nothing apart from there’s a great deal of difference between “trust the process” and “these people fuck up everything they touch”

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Gosh, I really wish I bothered going back on these threads more

Yeah, I think you should do so more, it'll probably help to curb about 70% of the vitriol you post here.

Small steps :)

[Niall_Quinn]

Bizarre that you’ve assumed anger. I will admit that I find some of your tantrum throwing exasperating and that’s why I made a conscious decision to avoid having children but anger? I’m not even being spiteful…just honest

Plus the dining table. Imagine he was at a dining table and Rice sat down. Hell, imagine he WAS a dining table. That'd be fucked up.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah, I think you should do so more, it'll probably help to curb about 70% of the vitriol you post here.

Small steps :)

Nah the Vitriol stays

But you’re right it would save me a lot of time to point out that people can’t even be consistent with what they believe two months previously

[HCZ_Reborn]

Plus the dining table. Imagine he was at a dining table and Rice sat down. Hell, imagine he WAS a dining table. That'd be fucked up.

Why are you here mocking me?

The human race is at a fucking precipice, and you’re here engaged in such pettiness when our freedom, our way of life is under threat from communist queers and globalists

Get your priorities right man

[Niall_Quinn]

Why are you here mocking me?

The human race is at a fucking precipice, and you’re here engaged in such pettiness when our freedom, our way of life is under threat from communist queers and globalists

Get your priorities right man

Dude. This is a fucking football forum.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Dude. This is a fucking football forum.

:gp:

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

....and that’s why I made a conscious decision to avoid having children but anger?

This is great news for unborn children and proponents of healthy families everywhere, keep it up dude :haha:

[HCZ_Reborn]

This is great news for unborn children and proponents of healthy families everywhere, keep it up dude :haha:

Do you have kids? (I ask this despite not even being sure I want to know)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

And given I quote posted a message from you back in April where you agree with me that Rice was absolutely not worth the money West Ham wanted, it feels a little bit strange that you would throw Teddy out of the pram when it transpires that we don’t want to pay what they’ve asked. Ultimately either we aren’t in a position or are inclined to offer vast amounts of cash as a down payment for a player….the structure and add ons that you bemoan are a) likely to be how we break down most transfer offers and b) in likelihood how most clubs do business unless you’re Chelsea with a retarded owner.

But what do I know……nothing apart from there’s a great deal of difference between “trust the process” and “these people fuck up everything they touch”

First of all, I don't agree with you, I made up my opinion on Rice long ago as you have shown. So it seems you are the one who agrees with me on his value and guess what Sherlock, everyone that has posted here has also agreed that West Ham is asking for too much money. I mean do we really need to create imaginary conflicts in the world when we've got people like Putin still breathing :lol:

Now back to my posts, my critique has solely been on how we conduct our transfer business, that has been crystal clear. The difference is crystal clear.

The only transfer I have directly criticized is the Havertz transfer, again crystal clear, as I have clearly stated what we paid for him makes no sense based on his output and what should be the accurate value for a player deemed to have "failed" who no one else is after.

The funny thing is you even acknowledged where I stated I preferred Caicedo, so I wonder why you love starting these forest fires.....though with all the personal stuff you posted about yourself its becoming a no brainer and now I'm just worried about you :console:

[HCZ_Reborn]

First of all, I don't agree with you, I made up my opinion on Rice long ago as you have shown. So it seems you are the one who agrees with me on his value and guess what Sherlock, everyone that has posted here has also agreed that West Ham is asking for too much money. I mean do we really need to create imaginary conflicts in the world when we've got people like Putin still breathing :lol:

Now back to my posts, my critique has solely been on how we conduct our transfer business, that has been crystal clear. The difference is crystal clear.

The only transfer I have directly criticized is the Havertz transfer, again crystal clear, as I have clearly stated what we paid for him makes no sense based on his output and what should be the accurate value for a player deemed to have "failed" who no one else is after.

The funny thing is you even acknowledged where I stated I preferred Caicedo, so I wonder why you love starting these forest fires.....though with all the personal stuff you posted about yourself its becoming a no brainer and now I'm just worried about you :console:


I’m beginning to wonder if basic comprehension is beyond you, are you allowed to bath yourself or do you have a carer come in to stop you from drowning.

If you accept that a player is over priced, I’m failing to understand how you can bemoan the club for clearly believing the same thing.


Yet you have spent the last few days whining like a little bitch about how clubs feel disrespected by the way we approach transfers. Based on structures and add ons??…

Yet the two examples you have are of clubs demanding far more for a player than the player is worth. You think Chelsea had a better approach because they were stupid enough to give Shatkah more cash up front. And you called our add ons unrealistic despite chiding me for being negative about our prospects of winning things.

You can’t keep a consistent thought in your head because you’re a little girl who has recently pulled back the sheets and found them stained with menstrual blood and your response to this is to become overly emotional.


The reason you even know anything about our transfer strategy is because in these instances the selling club has leaked the information in order to try and leverage us. And you’re basing your view on what the selling club has to say which is going to be extremely self serving.

I’d honestly have more respect for you, if you just admitted you were emotionally incontinent and can’t handle things not immediately going the way you want them to go.

[Chippy]

Why are you here mocking me?

The human race is at a fucking precipice, and you’re here engaged in such pettiness when our freedom, our way of life is under threat from communist queers and globalists

Get your priorities right man
Can't argue with that tbf :tiphat:
And sadiq Khan of course.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

.........
If you had asked me, I would have said we humble ourselves and go with Caicedo from the begining , seeing as Brighton's demands aren't that obscene...but now its going to be harder to backtrack because they'll feel slighted in how we made it clear their player wasn't important.

We should just stick with doing deals with our "rivals" who pity us and don't give us this much stress.
..

[HCZ_Reborn]

..

Fascinating but again I’m left seriously worried about your ability to perform simple tasks like reading

I never stated you didn’t think Caicedo was a better player. I was questioning the bed shitting over our approach for Rice when you already acknowledged he wasn’t worth the money they were asking for.

Though I find it interesting to note that because you’re a little girl that you think the people in charge at Brighton and Hove Albion are. Why on earth are they going to care how special we think the player is, like West Ham they want the money they think is adequate

[HCZ_Reborn]

Have you ever seen the film Cool Hand Luke, it’s a personal favourite of mine

Well if not, it’s a prison movie and one of the prisoners Dragline challenges Luke to a boxing match fight

Luke is hopelessly outmatched but he refuses to stay down even though he’s beaten, in the end Dragline walks away but he has respect and liking for Luke because of his persistence

I’m reminded of this now, with you as Luke who keeps coming back despite it being easier just to put your hands up and admit “ok I’m being a little girl”

The difference is you’re not earning my respect

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I’m beginning to wonder if basic comprehension is beyond you, are you allowed to bath yourself or do you have a carer come in to stop you from drowning.

If you accept that a player is over priced, I’m failing to understand how you can bemoan the club for clearly believing the same thing.


Yet you have spent the last few days whining like a little bitch about how clubs feel disrespected by the way we approach transfers. Based on structures and add ons??…

Yet the two examples you have are of clubs demanding far more for a player than the player is worth. You think Chelsea had a better approach because they were stupid enough to give Shatkah more cash up front. And you called our add ons unrealistic despite chiding me for being negative about our prospects of winning things.

You can’t keep a consistent thought in your head because you’re a little girl who has recently pulled back the sheets and found them stained with menstrual blood and your response to this is to become overly emotional.


The reason you even know anything about our transfer strategy is because in these instances the selling club has leaked the information in order to try and leverage us. And you’re basing your view on what the selling club has to say which is going to be extremely self serving.

I’d honestly have more respect for you, if you just admitted you were emotionally incontinent and can’t handle things not immediately going the way you want them to go.

HCZ you WUM as a way of life, it's your survival mechanism, your meaning, what sustains your existence; I get it and had since come to this conclusion which is the reason why I didn't get annoyed throughout this whole discourse.

However its a Saturday and I've got love to give, I can't be your comfort blanket for the whole day :wave:

[HCZ_Reborn]

HCZ you WUM as a way of life, it's your survival mechanism, your meaning, what sustains your existence; I get it and had since come to this conclusion which is the reason why I didn't get annoyed throughout this whole discourse.

However its a Saturday and I've got love to give, I can't be your comfort blanket for the whole day :wave:


I’m honestly not trying to get a rise out of you, I’m just trying to impart how your arguments are pathetic

I know in this over-sensitive, “words are violence” brave new world it may come across that I’m being harsh.

Anyway enjoy the rest of your day, and whilst self love is a funny way to describe having love to give…if it makes you happy.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Fascinating but again I’m left seriously worried about your ability to perform simple tasks like reading

I never stated you didn’t think Caicedo was a better player. I was questioning the bed shitting over our approach for Rice when you already acknowledged he wasn’t worth the money they were asking for.

Though I find it interesting to note that because you’re a little girl that you think the people in charge at Brighton and Hove Albion are. Why on earth are they going to care how special we think the player is, like West Ham they want the money they think is adequate

There is no parting you from your matches :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

There is no parting you from your matches :lol:

I thought you were off for Onanism?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Arsenal have tabled two bids for Rice so far and both of them have been rejected. Now, Romano has claimed that the Gunners, led by their sporting director Edu Gaspar, have ‘confirmed to West Ham’ that will make a new offer for their skipper soon.

Romano tweeted: “Arsenal have confirmed to West Ham their plan to submit one more bid for Declan Rice — after £75m plus £15m rejected.

“Understand Manchester City are also preparing their official bid — plan has not changed. Structure of deal/payment terms, key for West Ham.”
https://tbrfootball.com/fabrizio-romano-shares-what-arsenal-have-now-told-west-ham-about-declan-rice-deal/
"It goes, on and on and oning" :dancingman:

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://tbrfootball.com/fabrizio-romano-shares-what-arsenal-have-now-told-west-ham-about-declan-rice-deal/
"It goes, on and on and oning" :dancingman:

This is becoming circular, you agree that the player is not worth what West Ham are asking but you think we should dance to their tune when it comes to structure of payments? And again I’ll remind you that City haven’t even made a bid yet, which again the fact that they are even mentioned is because West Ham has leaked their interest.

You don’t like the way we conduct our transfers because what? West Ham and Shatkah want more money up front?. Well of course they would…

So we’ve established now that your reason for not liking our transfer dealings is not jumping when West Ham say jump because it creates drama and because you’re a little girl you can’t handle the drama.


Thanks for reaffirming what I already knew, I’m really not wishing to keep you from an evening with Porn Hub (by evening I mean a furious tug for five minutes over something illegal someone posted involving under age participants, and spending the rest of the evening crying into your pillow in shame)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/22784546/kai-havertz-arsenal-transfer-eddie-nketiah-transfer/amp/

Would probably be for the best if this is true. Really would like to see us give Balogun a chance......and shouldn't we get more money for Eddie anyway?

[Marc Overmars]

Jurrien Timber deal is getting closer.

45m apparently.

Can’t say Kroneke hasn’t backed Arteta. Massive net spend over the past few seasons considering we’ve barely recouped anything from the squad he inherited.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Jurrien Timber deal is getting closer.

45m apparently.

Can’t say Kroneke hasn’t backed Arteta. Massive net spend over the past few seasons considering we’ve barely recouped anything from the squad he inherited.

Listen I know this says Summer Transfers but this thread is about me making unnecessarily ad hominem comments towards other users

Yeah don’t want this transfer. I reiterate that we need to sell defenders not bring them in. Holding needs to go…and then we have a four centre back spread of Gabriel, Saliba, White and Kiwior. Then we sell Zinchenko and have Tierney with Dog snogger as a back up, and maybe bring in a cheap(ish) right back who can play with Tomoyasu as back up

If he comes we need to arguably get rid of at least two defenders


Midfield is the priority, need to ditch this Rice Saga and bring in Caicedo….then get rid of Elneny, Lokonga and Xhaka


Then we need to look at bringing in an upgrade on Xhaka, and then sell off Vieira….and one of Balogun or Edward…shit can this Havertz nonsense and bring in a route one striker who can head it.

This was obvious from the get go, but Captain Black doesn’t see it


So whilst people bitch and moan needlessly about the structure of payments and add ons, unwittingly doing free PR for the selling club. The real problem is the wrong targets

[Mac76]

Listen I know this says Summer Transfers but this thread is about me making unnecessarily ad hominem comments towards other users

Yeah don’t want this transfer. I reiterate that we need to sell defenders not bring them in. Holding needs to go…and then we have a four centre back spread of Gabriel, Saliba, White and Kiwior. Then we sell Zinchenko and have Tierney with Dog snogger as a back up, and maybe bring in a cheap(ish) right back who can play with Tomoyasu as back up

If he comes we need to arguably get rid of at least two defenders


Midfield is the priority, need to ditch this Rice Saga and bring in Caicedo….then get rid of Elneny, Lokonga and Xhaka


Then we need to look at bringing in an upgrade on Xhaka, and then sell off Vieira….and one of Balogun or Edward…shit can this Havertz nonsense and bring in a route one striker who can head it.

This was obvious from the get go, but Captain Black doesn’t see it


So whilst people bitch and moan needlessly about the structure of payments and add ons, unwittingly doing free PR for the selling club. The real problem is the wrong targets

As 'someone' wrote recently: This just sounds like a load of whiny bollocks to be honest

If transfers stress you out this much, maybe you need to touch grass a bit... ;)

[HCZ_Reborn]

As 'someone' wrote recently: This just sounds like a load of whiny bollocks to be honest

If transfers stress you out this much, maybe you need to touch grass a bit... ;)


If you genuinely think saying we are pursuing the wrong players is equivalent to 21 functioning Brain Cells and you stamping your feet and throwing a tantrum like an eight year old girl with pigtails because the Dolly that her parents bought her has the wrong colour dress….well it’s all a matter of you being free to be wrong :d


Alright poppet?

[mandela8]

Ornstein reporting City have offered 80+10 for Rice.

Better than our 75+15 in terms of guaranteed and, you'd think, clauses.

[mandela8]

Havertz pics leaked, so that looks done.

Have a screenshot but can't post on this 19th century message board.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ornstein reporting City have offered 80+10 for Rice.

Better than our 75+15 in terms of guaranteed and, you'd think, clauses.

https://theathletic.com/4625184/2023/06/26/manchester-city-declan-rice-offer/

:lol: just seen it, Citeh reportedly want to pull a Mudryk on us.

If this does come to fruition (the bid above being confirmed), it'll be fun to watch how our resident Spud rationalises this (I'd bet he keeps on compartmentalizing ftw ) ......ahhhh sun kissed days filled with a healthy dose of drama lie ahead :)

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Havertz pics leaked, so that looks done.

Have a screenshot but can't post on this 19th century message board.

Yeah.....this forum does need a bit of a facelift.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://theathletic.com/4625184/2023/06/26/manchester-city-declan-rice-offer/

:lol: just seen it, Citeh reportedly want to pull a Mudryk on us.

If this does come to fruition (the bid above being confirmed), it'll be fun to watch how our resident Spud rationalises this (I'd bet he keeps on compartmentalizing ftw ) ......ahhhh sun kissed days filled with a healthy dose of drama lie ahead :)

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12910186/declan-rice-manchester-city-launch-90m-bid-for-west-ham-midfielder-third-arsenal-offer-expected


“The bid is below West Ham’s valuation and early indications suggest that it will be rejected”


But I don’t get it, Man City are treble winners and obviously operate in a way with more ambition than us…why would they be so disrespectful to West Ham with a low ball offer that’s likely to be refused ?


Whilst calling you a little girl is amusing it doesn’t really get us anywhere. What is true is that you’re married to a narrative.
A fear that we can’t get the big transfers done. What I’ve tried to get across to you, is that big transfers in the past were about the quality of the player, they are far more indicative now of the leverage selling clubs have.

I don’t really have a dog in this hunt apart from being of the opinion that we should walk away simply because Rice isn’t that good of a player. For clubs like West Ham/Shatkah it’s not about treating them with respect it’s about wanting the cash now rather than structured over the length of the players contract.

But at the same time pretty much everything I’ve said has been borne out, West Ham want a bidding war and that’s why they leaked City’s offer days before they made one (and by your logic it took City an eternity to make such an offer)

Another question you need to ask yourself about the Mudryk transfer, if we felt he was worth it why didn’t we simply match Chelsea’s bid that was accepted in terms of cash up front now and less add ons?.

[Letters]

Havertz pics leaked, so that looks done.

Have a screenshot but can't post on this 19th century message board.

I’ll have to upgrade to version 2 of the difference engine this runs on <_< :p

There are image hosting sites, you know.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Youssef Fofana is our back up option in the event of failure to sign Rice apparently, have nothing to say about this because I don’t know enough about the player (basically anything) to offer an opinion, same age as Rice, was in the French World Cup squad (came on for Rabiot in the final).


Romeo Labia (yes I know it’s Lavia) is another player we are still interested in, I don’t think that signing is necessarily dependent on the Rice deal….probably about whether we can Xhaka, Lokonga etc off the books

[HCZ_Reborn]

Holding in talks for a loan move to Besiktas

Holy fuck, you know your career is fucked if you end up in Turkish football

:haha:

[Marc Overmars]

City’s bid has been rejected and a third offer from us is imminent. West Ham laughing all the way to the bank.

[Mac76]

Havertz pics leaked, so that looks done.

Have a screenshot but can't post on this 19th century message board.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA1d4D1l.img?w=306&h=460&m=6&x=107&y=63&s=93&d=93

[HCZ_Reborn]

City’s bid has been rejected and a third offer from us is imminent. West Ham laughing all the way to the bank.

I just don’t know what to think at this stage

It just doesn’t make sense

How can City a serious club by all accounts act so disrespectfully by low balling West Ham like this

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA1d4D1l.img?w=306&h=460&m=6&x=107&y=63&s=93&d=93

Is that a leak or a photoshop? I don’t suppose it really matters as it’s likely we will announce him soon enough

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah the Havertz deal is done. Just a matter of when it’s announced now.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article22712306.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/0_Kai-Havertz-with-Donkey-Twitter-picture.jpg

Donkey Boy

[Mac76]

you're keeping an open mind then...

[HCZ_Reborn]

you're keeping an open mind then...

Absolutely

I call him Donkey Boy because he literally owns Donkeys….looks more like a goblin than a Donkey


I don’t want him and don’t rate him, but 65 million? I fucking well hope I’m wrong

[Letters]

£65m doesn't get you a particularly good player these days.

[HCZ_Reborn]

£65m doesn't get you a particularly good player these days.

Evidently

[HCZ_Reborn]

Havertz from what I can tell is a gamble in the hope that we’ve got on our hands another Salah or De Bruyne (in terms of a player who didn’t work out for Chelsea but was a superstar at their new club). I think it’s an incredibly high risk strategy given Havertz has been at Chelsea for three years. But more than anything I resent giving them money to rescue them from their own heedless stupidity. I think not all of their players were going to be prepared to go to Saudi Arabia, every premier league club had the chance to keep the foot on their throat and make it so they were stuck with players who either weren’t good enough or hate it at Chelsea and have downed tools

To screw over Chelsea, is more than just amusing…I see it as a moral duty.


But ultimately Arteta doesn’t prioritise Chelsea’s misery as much as I do, so let’s hope he’s right about this player

[HCZ_Reborn]

Bayern have submitted a bid for Harry Kane in the ballpark of what we’ve offered for Rice (for all those on heavy doses of copium yes I concede Bayern adds on for league title are a bit more realistic than ours but it’s all relative)

The rule of thumb is when you see about offers for players which aren’t immediately preceded by “have reached an agreement for signing” of, you probably can gleam from that, that the selling club is going to reject the offer.

Like the Ammers, Spurs will want hard cash for Kane and Bayern and pretty much every club other than feckless ones tend to make the deal a structured one. This is why in many ways, it’s actually harder to complete the transfer because in many ways the selling club has all the power (well if they choose to, there’s still too many players we’ve sold for virtually nothing and that’s my biggest gripe with our transfer policy…well that and transfer targets)

[HCZ_Reborn]

I’m a bit behind, but yes as i thought would be the case Bayern’s bid rejected

Another club not serious about getting too targets :haha:

[dostoy]

I really hope Kane stays for another year then leaves for free.

Please Arsenal, pull the plug on Rice.

[fakeyank]

No idea where Havertz plays tbf.. what a bizzare buy.

[Mac76]

No idea where Havertz plays tbf.. what a bizzare buy.

It feels like Arteta's taking a big punt on this one

It wouldn't be the first time he's bought someone and it's not worked out - Taveres, Lokonga, Vieira - and as far as I'm concerned Zinchenko, although Arteta would no doubt disagree with me on that - but this one is more money and a high-profile player from a rival club which is desperate to sell

I doubt a single Arsenal fan is dancing in the streets over this signing - the pressure will be on for this to work

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fabio Vieira was the equivalent of me asking my brother to get me a darts board for Christmas when we were in lockdown, it was one of those impulse things (couldn’t think of anything and I do like to play darts in the pub every now and again even though I can’t play for shit so presumably was looking to get some practice in). He got me it, but it’s never been used and really this feels the same with Vieira. Like something that seemed a good idea at the time, but will invariably gather dust somewhere.

You can tell there’s some technical ability there but you need to have some degree of physicality in the premier league…and he looks anaemic and malnourished.

The best thing we can do is tempt Porto to buy him back

[mandela8]

It feels like Arteta's taking a big punt on this one

It wouldn't be the first time he's bought someone and it's not worked out - Taveres, Lokonga, Vieira - and as far as I'm concerned Zinchenko, although Arteta would no doubt disagree with me on that - but this one is more money and a high-profile player from a rival club which is desperate to sell

I doubt a single Arsenal fan is dancing in the streets over this signing - the pressure will be on for this to work
Taveres and Lokonga do look to be busts...I think Lokonga has something but he won't fulfil anything here.

Zinchenko is a success by Arteta's measure. He wasn't the gamble, it was the system change and our best season justifies it. Completely understand and agree on Zinchenko, personally, though.

Viera has another season. Been very disappointing but hopefully he's more Grealish first season than...someone who didn't improve after their first season, I guess.

65m is an obscene number for a gamble though. Havertz has to be playing that MF role, beside Odegaard with Partey/A.N.Other behind.

Can't make any sense of it otherwise.

Arteta has said in the past 2 DMs isn't a system he wants to play and he moved away from it this season past. Maybe this is the final phase of the system transition??

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Ornstein says we've bid £100million+£5 million add ons for Rice.

:wacko:

[Niall_Quinn]

If he's going to fill the void left by Paddy then it's almost a free transfer. Otherwise it's the biggest waste of money since the last guy who bought an electric car. Nothing in between.

[Marc Overmars]

As much as I want Rice, If West Ham don’t accept that then it’s time to walk away.

[HCZ_Reborn]

If West Ham need the cash that much, that motivates me more to say we shouldn’t give it to them. And unlike Chelsea I don’t even dislike the Ammers

[Chippy]

Ornstein says we've bid £100million+£5 million add ons for Rice.

:wacko:
Rejected due to payment terms. Can you fucking believe it. I would move on, he isn't worth it.
Sullivan is worse than that cunt Levi :rolleyes:

[Mac76]

we def need to walk away now - time for Plan B, as per January, where we switch from buying one overpriced player to three very useful VFM signings

[HCZ_Reborn]

we def need to walk away now - time for Plan B, as per January, where we switch from buying one overpriced player to three very useful VFM signings

I don’t think we will, what I’m reading is that Ammers are looking for us to make tweaks rather than an outright new offer, but again I guess it depends if City are serious about the player

Of course I agree we should move on, but then I’m biased because I don’t rate him and think fifty would be steep

[Marc Overmars]

Rejected due to payment terms. Can you fucking believe it. I would move on, he isn't worth it.
Sullivan is worse than that cunt Levi :rolleyes:

It hasn’t been rejected but West Ham apparently want the bulk of the 100m up front.

I’d imagine we need to get a fair few off the books this summer to make this work.

[Mac76]

we should tell them to stuff it and if they want the money they do it our way - if Citeh want him then fine, we can sign other players who aren't so overrated

[selassie]

we should tell them to stuff it and if they want the money they do it our way - if Citeh want him then fine, we can sign other players who aren't so overrated

Yep I agree, as much as I think he is a decent player this pursuit is getting ridiculous now. They (West Ham) are stalling now hoping City or another club come in and gazump us.

We have done as much as we can do, we are literally blitzing our transfer record with this bid / potential deal.

[Chippy]

Yep I agree, as much as I think he is a decent player this pursuit is getting ridiculous now. They (West Ham) are stalling now hoping City or another club come in and gazump us.

We have done as much as we can do, we are literally blitzing our transfer record with this bid / potential deal.
City have pulled out :d
Offer the spammers £50m. Take it or fuck off.

[Mac76]

City have pulled out :d
Offer the spammers £50m. Take it or fuck off.

:gp:

[selassie]

City have pulled out :d
Offer the spammers £50m. Take it or fuck off.

Yeah just seen on the BBC!

Sounds like this one is nearing a conclusion, pretty much done then aside from the structure which we seem to be discussing.

I think this is a BIG statement signing and i rate him, but the pressure on him and us to deliver is going to be immense going into the season. Add to the fact we look to have secured Havertz and are also closing in on Timber, we are spending BIG money now, we have nothing to hide behind.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://twitter.com/gunnersc0m/status/1673999770384203777?s=46&t=n1tnxEg6k_DvSqUkaQFrjw


This is dedicated to a certain poster who has become curiously quiet since he presumably learnt that his whining wasn’t justified by the facts.

I wouldn’t mind I am not minded to defend Arteta or Edu, but I won’t just twist every single incident to support my narrative.


Whatever happens with Rice (hopefully move on and leave them saddled with a player who wants to go) I think too many Arsenal fans love to parrot the media narrative which has been dictated by the selling club.

I’m not encouraged by Timber or Havertz signing but if in two weeks we have them and Rice you can’t argue the club hasn’t moved quickly.

[Niall_Quinn]

Stan spending at the top table and the manager and crew getting the signings in before pre-season. Things have changed.

[Niall_Quinn]

What happens when a club "pulls out" of a transfer negotiation? Do they call up and say they are not making a bid? Bit like going into Asda and informing the manager you won't be buying his beans today? Surely nothing happens? No more contact, no more bidding. And if some sort of announcement of non-intent is made, why? Wouldn't it be better to just say nothing and make things more uncertain for your rivals?

[Niall_Quinn]

If Rice signs, will he be allowed to keep his Black Adder haircut? Or will we put something in the contract to deal with that?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Yeah just seen on the BBC!

Sounds like this one is nearing a conclusion, pretty much done then aside from the structure which we seem to be discussing.

I think this is a BIG statement signing and i rate him, but the pressure on him and us to deliver is going to be immense going into the season. Add to the fact we look to have secured Havertz and are also closing in on Timber, we are spending BIG money now, we have nothing to hide behind.

Still think Havertz isn't really needed and would have preferred the money was invested in getting Caicedo and Rice (or any other decent CM) this summer like the press hinted earlier. Focusing on the midfield and the defence are good signs that our weaknesses are being addressed.

What worries me more is we get rid of the wrong players. Losing Partey or Jorghino would be the wrong move, we could make a reassessment in January once we've seen the impact the newbies would have. Xhaka can and should go IMO.

If everything else holds, I'd be fine.

Oh, I almost forgot, if we really wanted to make "the statement", we should be in the mix for Mbappe....then all would be forgiven :cloud9:

[selassie]

Still think Havertz isn't really needed and would have preferred the money was invested in getting Caicedo and Rice (or any other decent CM) this summer like the press hinted earlier. Focusing on the midfield and the defence are good signs that our weaknesses are being addressed.

What worries me more is we get rid of the wrong players. Losing Partey or Jorghino would be the wrong move, we could make a reassessment in January once we've seen the impact the newbies would have. Xhaka can and should go IMO.

If everything else holds, I'd be fine.

Oh, I almost forgot, if we really wanted to make "the statement", we should be in the mix for Mbappe....then all would be forgiven :cloud9:

Yeah Havertz is / was a really risky signing TBH, he has to deliver just as much as Rice to justify his price tag. I agree, I think we could have secured a lot less risky signing for the same amount or maybe a bit more, but I am going to trust Arteta on this one for now and hope he brings out the "elite" potential in Havertz that he was displaying before he went to Chelsea.

Yeah we definitely need to keep one or if not both of Partey and Jorginho around. I suspect we will let Partey leave due to his salary (over 200k per week) and the issues surrounding him. Keeping Jorginho is absolutely essential if Partey goes. It sounds like Lavia could be brought in for Partey, Lavia is a superb young player with a really high ceiling, he can be eased in.

To be fair, a window of Rice, Havertz, Timber and Lavia is about as good as you are going to get for any top PL team let alone us. It's shaping up to be a great window and really exciting time to be an Arsenal fan.

The squad should be strong enough for another PL challenge and respectable run in CL.

[Mac76]

I don't think there's any question of letting Jorginho go, he's got one year of an 18-month contract left, we'll have him serve it as he's been very useful and then he'll probably go

[HCZ_Reborn]

Partey is a strange one, if we are looking to sell him either we have some information about his injury status or legal status

[Marc Overmars]

Yeah in terms of his fitness I don’t think that was really an issue last year. Think he only missed 4 or 5 league games.

I imagine it’s to do with the fact his contract is up next year and at 30 years old I’m not sure offering him another couple of years on his salary fits in with the strategy the club has shown regarding contracts and transfers. It would explain the Lavia interest as he would be a direct replacement.

I’d rather he stayed for another year but money does need to be coming back in to the club one way or another. Our net spend in recent years is huge.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah in terms of his fitness I don’t think that was really an issue last year. Think he only missed 4 or 5 league games.

I imagine it’s to do with the fact his contract is up next year and at 30 years old I’m not sure offering him another couple of years on his salary fits in with the strategy the club has shown regarding contracts and transfers. It would explain the Lavia interest as he would be a direct replacement.

I’d rather he stayed for another year but money does need to be coming back in to the club one way or another. Our net spend in recent years is huge.


Yeah that seems like a laudable explanation in fairness

[selassie]

Partey is a strange one, if we are looking to sell him either we have some information about his injury status or legal status

I think it's his wage HCZ and the fact that he is getting near to the end of his contract as MO said. It makes no sense to stack the squad full of 200k per week players, we don't have the budget, so letting Partey leave is most likely more financial than anything else.

I think we will be OK with a Midfield that consists of Rice, Jorginho and Lavia (assuming he comes in for Partey), oh and Elneny!!! With the likes of Odegaard, Havertz, ESR & Vieira occupying the offensive positions.

The squad rebuild is more or less complete if we secure all the remaining targets. It will be just a case of stacking it up a bit more going forward with quality depth options.

[mandela8]

Still think Havertz isn't really needed and would have preferred the money was invested in getting Caicedo and Rice (or any other decent CM) this summer like the press hinted earlier. Focusing on the midfield and the defence are good signs that our weaknesses are being addressed.

What worries me more is we get rid of the wrong players. Losing Partey or Jorghino would be the wrong move, we could make a reassessment in January once we've seen the impact the newbies would have. Xhaka can and should go IMO.

If everything else holds, I'd be fine.

Oh, I almost forgot, if we really wanted to make "the statement", we should be in the mix for Mbappe....then all would be forgiven :cloud9:

Speculating here but Rice AND Caciedo was a non starter.

It looks like Arteta wants to move to a more progressive CM 3 with one dedicated holding player and 2 more attacking players (as opposed to 1DM, 1cm Xhaka and 1am). The Timber purchase makes this viable as he can invert when Zinchenko isn't there, so there's no need to change the system when Zinchenko is out.

Rice

Odegaard Havertz

Saka Jesus Martinelli

Will be his preferred starters.

I still rate Partey above Rice and Trossard above Saka, but no Xhaka is an automatic game changer.

[Mac76]

I'd be happy to sell Partey, though ideally for Caicedo

Partey has become less reliable, he may have been able to get out onto the pitch most of the time but i'm not convinced he was 100% some of the time, plus he started fucking up on a regular basis, by the end of the season i was heavily in favour of Jorginho starting over him, though partly because Jorg played very well