Summer Transfer Shit and Everything Else

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'd be happy to sell Partey, though ideally for Caicedo

Partey has become less reliable, he may have been able to get out onto the pitch most of the time but i'm not convinced he was 100% some of the time, plus he started fucking up on a regular basis, by the end of the season i was heavily in favour of Jorginho starting over him, though partly because Jorg played very well


Don’t disagree….my issue is more that Rice seems to be his replacement and I think that’s a downgrade on Partey as he can’t play through the press. Caicedo would definitely have been an upgrade

[selassie]

Don’t disagree….my issue is more that Rice seems to be his replacement and I think that’s a downgrade on Partey as he can’t play through the press. Caicedo would definitely have been an upgrade

If Rice is Partey's replacement and Havertz Xhaka's replacement then we will most definitely adjust our tactics, they are not like for like replacements. We will still press high but in a different way I assume. For all the flak we give Xhaka, he did contribute defensively last season, I can't see Havertz doing that at all or not the same as Xhaka so that will mean the team has to adjust somewhere.

[mandela8]

I'd be happy to sell Partey, though ideally for Caicedo

Partey has become less reliable, he may have been able to get out onto the pitch most of the time but i'm not convinced he was 100% some of the time, plus he started fucking up on a regular basis, by the end of the season i was heavily in favour of Jorginho starting over him, though partly because Jorg played very well

I think this narrative of Partey fuckin up on a regular basis is pretty baseless, man. Which games was he shit in? He made the mistake against West Ham but the was followed up by typical Gabriel rashness and an unmerited penalty. He was woeful against Man City, but he wasn't close to being the worst arsenal player on the pitch. When else was he so poor? He did seem to become a bit of a lightening rod, which never made sense to me.

Jorginho is a reliable water carrier/ball mover. No more than that, for me.

[fakeyank]

Rice is more overpriced than an iPhone. Ridiculous amount to pay for an overhyped Jordan Henderson IMO. Rather we have gone for Caceido..

[McNamara That Ghost...]

https://twitter.com/Arsenal/status/1674130712054882304?t=byw6SuLZE1LswFgXFseKhQ&s=19

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Havertz confirmed, that is.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Deal agreed for Rice

[dostoy]

Crazy money and Arsenal are fools to pay that much.

The world has gone mad.

[Mac76]

Rice is more overpriced than an iPhone. Ridiculous amount to pay for an overhyped Jordan Henderson IMO. Rather we have gone for Caceido..

Totally agree on all counts, including the iPhone bit - same goes for anything sold by Crapple, it's sad to see so many losers paying through the nose to try to make themselves trendy, it's pathetic really

[HCZ_Reborn]

Totally agree on all counts, including the iPhone bit - same goes for anything sold by Crapple, it's sad to see so many losers paying through the nose to try to make themselves trendy, it's pathetic really

I’ve had an iPhone of one description or another for almost 15 years, couldn’t give a fuck about trendy I just find it functional


That and I enjoy that the metal comes from conflict mines and child labour

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think this narrative of Partey fuckin up on a regular basis is pretty baseless, man. Which games was he shit in? He made the mistake against West Ham but the was followed up by typical Gabriel rashness and an unmerited penalty. He was woeful against Man City, but he wasn't close to being the worst arsenal player on the pitch. When else was he so poor? He did seem to become a bit of a lightening rod, which never made sense to me.

Jorginho is a reliable water carrier/ball mover. No more than that, for me.

Kind of agree 100% with this post.

Not the best comparison, but I hope we don't end up with a Cesc/Vieira situation.... Partey's early season form was practically universally lauded by pundits across board as being jaw dropping...and the dropoff was also clearly noted and intertwined with our collapse. I'm not saying he was the only one, as Saka did the exact same thing but few are calling for his head (youth on his side though).

I don't think Partey is finished, Simone made the same mistake
(IMO ) and I don't think Atleti have been that solid since he left (they did win the league that season though).

Oh well, lets see how things pan out, I mean with over £200m spent already we'll probably be spectators from now on.

[GP]

Havertz done. Rice next.

Blimey.

[Marc Overmars]

Add Timber to that and it’s over 200m spent.

Huge backing for Arteta here. Let’s hope next season lives up to the billing.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The Gunners won both league meetings between the two sides last season, and beat the Blues five out of six times since Havertz moved to Stamford Bridge in 2020.
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11670/12910868/kai-havertz-arsenal-sign-german-international-from-chelsea-for-65m
I think Sky is trying to tell us something :lol:

[Niall_Quinn]

Don’t disagree….my issue is more that Rice seems to be his replacement and I think that’s a downgrade on Partey as he can’t play through the press. Caicedo would definitely have been an upgrade

Partey's the shittiest player I've seen at Arsenal in years. If Rice is a downgrade then the club is neck deep in the bad stuff. He can't possibly be a downgrade. Why would you say that? I've watched him play and always thought he was a bit scrappy and random but at least got stuck in. Partey is the opposite, he excels in being nowhere that might put him under the slightest pressure.

[selassie]

Add Timber to that and it’s over 200m spent.

Huge backing for Arteta here. Let’s hope next season lives up to the billing.

Yeah this is shaping up to be a huge window for us. We can debate all we want about the fees but securing Rice and Havertz this early is really impressive TBH, both quality players. Timber deal seems very close too. Another quality player.

Arteta and the team under big pressure next season, a title challenge and a respectable CL run.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Partey's the shittiest player I've seen at Arsenal in years. If Rice is a downgrade then the club is neck deep in the bad stuff. He can't possibly be a downgrade. Why would you say that? I've watched him play and always thought he was a bit scrappy and random but at least got stuck in. Partey is the opposite, he excels in being nowhere that might put him under the slightest pressure.


You do know I already believed you when you’ve said that you don’t watch Arsenal much

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah this is shaping up to be a huge window for us. We can debate all we want about the fees but securing Rice and Havertz this early is really impressive TBH, both quality players. Timber deal seems very close too. Another quality player.

Arteta and the team under big pressure next season, a title challenge and a respectable CL run.


Well I suspect the one thing Arteta doesn’t lack is self confidence, but yeah don’t know if KSE are just after money from champions league qualification or whether they want to see genuine returns on their investment (a lot of money after all was put in to get the Rams the Super Bowl) so hopefully there is significant pressure on him to win stuff.

[selassie]

Well I suspect the one thing Arteta doesn’t lack is self confidence, but yeah don’t know if KSE are just after money from champions league qualification or whether they want to see genuine returns on their investment (a lot of money after all was put in to get the Rams the Super Bowl) so hopefully there is significant pressure on him to win stuff.

Surely they must want to see some sort of return on their investment? Arteta has now spent an absolute fortune rebuilding the squad. He has done a great job of the rebuild so far, and I personally rate him as a Coach, but after the investment this summer with the way the squad is shaping up, we should be competing for the major prizes, I don't think scraping top 4 with this investment will wash, not even with the Kroenke's.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Surely they must want to see some sort of return on their investment? Arteta has now spent an absolute fortune rebuilding the squad. He has done a great job of the rebuild so far, and I personally rate him as a Coach, but after the investment this summer with the way the squad is shaping up, we should be competing for the major prizes, I don't think scraping top 4 with this investment will wash, not even with the Kroenke's.


Well will agree to disagree on rating him as a coach or thinking he’s done a good job on the rebuild

But as I say you’d certainly hope Kroenke is expecting something back, the money we are spending and uncertainty over Guardiola’s long term future means we really should aim to win the title in the next two-three seasons (especially as the Arab oil money will see to it that no will get near Man City, United and Newcastle after that)

[Letters]

You do know I already believed you when you’ve said that you don’t watch Arsenal much

:lol:

Tbh, I never thought Partey was all that special but tbh I don't watch Arsenal much either and his stats are fairly impressive.

[HCZ_Reborn]

:lol:

Tbh, I never thought Partey was all that special but tbh I don't watch Arsenal much either and his stats are fairly impressive.

The response was to NQ calling him the shittest player he’s seen at Arsenal in some time.

Partey was for me good for about 75% of the season last season then went off the boil after going away with Ghana for what I think was ACN qualifiers

Definitely one of the better central midfielders we’ve had in some considerable time (although his first season was injury ravaged and second season indifferent form)

He can be sloppy in possession but he can also completely dominate the middle of the park

[Mac76]

:lol:

Tbh, I never thought Partey was all that special but tbh I don't watch Arsenal much either and his stats are fairly impressive.

stats don't tell the full story, there's no substitute for watching the games (i mean live by the way) to really be able to see what's going on and how well someone is playing

[Letters]

The response was to NQ calling him the shittest player he’s seen at Arsenal in some time.
Well sure. NQ's gotta NQ. Ridiculous hyperbole is kinda his thing.

And agreed, Mac. You see more when you're at the game, doubt I'll get back in to going regularly any time soon. Maybe if the boy shows an interest when he's older.

[Mac76]

meanwhile Spuds have signed Maddison for £40m

a good price for a player who still has a lot to offer, of course he's doomed never to win anything but that's his problem...

[HCZ_Reborn]

meanwhile Spuds have signed Maddison for £40m

a good price for a player who still has a lot to offer, of course he's doomed never to win anything but that's his problem...


I think Spurs is about his level. Given the hideous inflation in the game 40 million isn’t too bad but I suppose having to take into consideration that Leicester don’t have the power to ask for any more because they were relegated.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Interesting stat come across on Twitter. Kai Havertz now the 14th player who will have played for both Arsenal and Chelsea in the premier league

[Chippy]

meanwhile Spuds have signed Maddison for £40m

a good price for a player who still has a lot to offer, of course he's doomed never to win anything but that's his problem...
Spuds have got a bargain there tbh.
Let's hope they turn him into shit like many others.

[selassie]

Well will agree to disagree on rating him as a coach or thinking he’s done a good job on the rebuild

But as I say you’d certainly hope Kroenke is expecting something back, the money we are spending and uncertainty over Guardiola’s long term future means we really should aim to win the title in the next two-three seasons (especially as the Arab oil money will see to it that no will get near Man City, United and Newcastle after that)

Agreed to disagree! Otherwise we will be going back and forth for hours :d

Yeah I agree regarding us aiming to win the title in the next two-three seasons. It will be difficult, but that should be the number one priority, especially given what happened last season.

[Letters]

Agreed to disagree! Otherwise we will be going back and forth for hours.
That’s pretty much all that’s keeping this place going <_<

[Marc Overmars]

Agreed to disagree! Otherwise we will be going back and forth for hours :d

Yeah I agree regarding us aiming to win the title in the next two-three seasons. It will be difficult, but that should be the number one priority, especially given what happened last season.

Yeah you don’t sign players for 100m and not have designs to win the league. That must be the goal next season. It will be difficult as hell to dethrone City but that’s the pressure we’ve put on ourselves now. No excuses.

[mandela8]

On the face of it, 40m for Maddisson seems a better deal than 65m for Havertz, tbh.



I don't think Maddisson has that subservient attitude Arteta likes in his players though. Havertz does look a wee bit gormless.

[Mac76]

I don't think Maddisson has that subservient attitude Arteta likes in his players though. Havertz does look a wee bit gormless.

Nail hit firmly on head.

Arteta only signs 'yes sir' types - sure we don't want an unruly squad, but the opposite is having players all of a type who may not be best suited to being tough enough to win the league

It's what happens when a manager is clearly struggling with their own self-esteem and can't deal with anything which they interpret as dissent

[HCZ_Reborn]

Nail hit firmly on head.

Arteta only signs 'yes sir' types - sure we don't want an unruly squad, but the opposite is having players all of a type who may not be best suited to being tough enough to win the league

It's what happens when a manager is clearly struggling with their own self-esteem and can't deal with anything which they interpret as dissent


You’re doing that thing again


I do think Arteta has fallen out with players for being too willful. But I’m not buying this as an overarching explanation. First off, as I’ve said before he’d have sold Saliba, he’d have sold Xhaka long before now, and probably would have fallen out with the likes of Ramsdale as well.


Arteta has a hard on for utility players, he thinks he can play Donkey Boy in several different positions plus not sure Havertz is that meek either, he had the arse ache because his Arsenal interview had been linked before he had a chance to tweet the obligatory goodbye soapy tit wank to the Chelsea fans

I don’t think Arteta lacks confidence at all, actually has too much…a lot of his lack of social skills come down quite honestly to what I think is him being on the spectrum.

At the risk of actually making a serious argument, the issue with some of the statements you and 21 whatever the fuck make is that a lot of it is a clear extension of what you want to be true, and it often feels like you’re very keen to omit anything that doesn’t fall within the argument you’re trying to make.

Me? I’ve said for a while that Arteta has a tendency to fall out with players who might be outspoken, but I’m also mindful not to shoehorn that as this simple easy oven baked explanation.

I recognise the last player he fell out with was Auba but even with that there’s the caveat that I don’t think he’d have dropped him so readily if he had been scoring goals. A coach will give a player who is consistently producing more room to manoeuvre….but the tolerance for Auba went when the goals dried up

[HCZ_Reborn]

Liverpool and Newcastle after Dominik Copy and Paste from Leipzig, weren’t we after him at one point?

[Mac76]

You’re doing that thing again


I do think Arteta has fallen out with players for being too willful. But I’m not buying this as an overarching explanation. First off, as I’ve said before he’d have sold Saliba, he’d have sold Xhaka long before now, and probably would have fallen out with the likes of Ramsdale as well.


you've misread the Xhaka situation completely, he's clearly a teachers' pet who gets on the manager's good side by running around traffic cones endlessly and never questions anything, therefore gets away with being sent off and giving goals away ad infinitum

as for Saliba, we badly damaged our relationship with him through Arteta absurdly insisting he "wasn't ready" the season before last, only for him to be the best CB in the PL the very next season - no-one goes from 'not ready to the best in one season so Arteta made a fool of himself (though of course he claims the single season completely transformed Saliba from hopeless youngster to PL standout) and i think we very nearly lost Saliba at that point, without doubt we will have damaged any loyalty Saliba may have felt for the club, which could well cause us to lose him sooner rather than later

As for Ramsdale i see no sign of any insubordination so not sure what you're talking about

[HCZ_Reborn]

you've misread the Xhaka situation completely, he's clearly a teachers' pet who gets on the manager's good side by running around traffic cones endlessly and never questions anything, therefore gets away with being sent off and giving goals away ad infinitum

as for Saliba, we badly damaged our relationship with him through Arteta absurdly insisting he "wasn't ready" the season before last, only for him to be the best CB in the PL the very next season - no-one goes from 'not ready to the best in one season so Arteta made a fool of himself (though of course he claims the single season completely transformed Saliba from hopeless youngster to PL standout) and i think we very nearly lost Saliba at that point, without doubt we will have damaged any loyalty Saliba may have felt for the club, which could well cause us to lose him sooner rather than later

As for Ramsdale i see no sign of any insubordination so not sure what you're talking about


I misread him flipping off the fans before Arteta joined, or having to be dragged away by Arteta to prevent him from getting into a fracas with Richarlison in the North London Derby?


I wasn’t talking about straight up insubordination I don’t see why any coach should put up with that. But it’s abundantly clear Ramsdale is outspoken


Saliba has agreed a new contract, if the relationship between him and the club had been damaged that wouldn’t have happened.


Putting aside the silly insults I’ve thrown at you, come on now…read back what you’ve written and tell me you’re not reaching desperately to justify coming to a conclusion here. I’m not especially a fan of Maddison…basically little more than a dead ball specialist.

Would Arteta have signed Trossard if he had this pathological aversion to signing anyone who could potentially be a trouble maker?.

I think the fact is that Arteta rates players we don’t, and doesn’t rate players we do. And honestly? That’s a far simpler and likelier explanation.

I get it you don’t like Arteta and I don’t like him either, and I think he’s now at the precipice where he’s going to be made to produce after the money he’s been allowed to spend. But again this doubling down you’re doing lacks credibility.

The jock can do it because he never had any to begin with

[Mac76]

I misread him flipping off the fans before Arteta joined, or having to be dragged away by Arteta to prevent him from getting into a fracas with Richarlison in the North London Derby?


I wasn’t talking about straight up insubordination I don’t see why any coach should put up with that. But it’s abundantly clear Ramsdale is outspoken


Saliba has agreed a new contract, if the relationship between him and the club had been damaged that wouldn’t have happened.



fair dos, i'd missed that Saliba had definitely signed

but Xhaka being an arsehole on the pitch is exactly my point, he gets away with it because he's a teachers pet

Think about the harsh words Arteta had for Pepe the one time he was sent off, whereas with the multiple times Xhaka got sent off Arteta just brushed it off - it's favouritism pure and simple

And I've heard nothing about any insubordination from Ram at all

[HCZ_Reborn]

fair dos, i'd missed that Saliba had definitely signed

but Xhaka being an arsehole on the pitch is exactly my point, he gets away with it because he's a teachers pet

Think about the harsh words Arteta had for Pepe the one time he was sent off, whereas with the multiple times Xhaka got sent off Arteta just brushed it off - it's favouritism pure and simple

And I've heard nothing about any insubordination from Ram at all


Again it’s not about insubordination it’s about players having big personalities or being outspoken which of course may lead to insubordination or perceived insurbordination. I’m old fashioned enough to think that if you’re late for training or you call the manager a cunt you probably should be punished for it. With Xhaka it seems more likely that if he’s given more leeway because he’s a starter rather than he’s a starter because he’s obsequious (which I’ve not seen any evidence of)

I can only remember Pepe getting sent off once and it was for head butting someone. A lot of Xhaka’s sending offs have been for two yellow cards rather than outright violent conduct. The last time was against Man City and I think if VAR had checked would have been overturned.

Pepe often terrible first touch, very little in the way of work rate and doesn’t look like he’s done much to repair his reputation on loan at Nice.

The way I see it, the more time has gone on the more minded I am to think that if a player gets frozen out by Arteta it’s most likely because he doesn’t rate that player. Tierney…I think he’s wrong about him….but I can’t imagine him misbehaving same with Smith Rowe….guy seems painfully shy

[HCZ_Reborn]

Put it this way if Saka turns up late for training, and in response calls Arteta a bloodclat….likely to get a fine and maybe dropped for a game, but I don’t think that would be the end of his Arsenal career

[HCZ_Reborn]

Unrelated to Transfers but i think the Emirates needs to be touched up, it’s looking a bit dated and it’s less than twenty years old. First off there needs to be a proper Wi-Fi connection installed, the seats need replacing and the tv screens need an upgrade to I hate to say it what Spurs have at their ground. There’s enough time between now and the start of the season in August to get this done…for fans who go to games it’s the least the club can do.

[Mac76]

Unrelated to Transfers but i think the Emirates needs to be touched up, it’s looking a bit dated and it’s less than twenty years old. First off there needs to be a proper Wi-Fi connection installed, the seats need replacing and the tv screens need an upgrade to I hate to say it what Spurs have at their ground. There’s enough time between now and the start of the season in August to get this done…for fans who go to games it’s the least the club can do.

You've not noticed the complete refurbishment of the outside with a whole bunch of specially-commissioned new murals then? :haha: or indeed adding some extra touches inside on the concourses...?

But I agree on wifi, I.ve made that point to the club myself, there ought to be a club wifi or better mobile connectivity, at least for ST holders

nothing wrong with the seats though, they're still better than most stadiums

Personally would never set foot inside the Toilet Bowl but they can shove their seats up their arses IMO, but your own familiarity with that place seems to indicate 21Gooner was correct to call you a Spuds fan

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

fair dos, i'd missed that Saliba had definitely signed

but Xhaka being an arsehole on the pitch is exactly my point, he gets away with it because he's a teachers pet

Think about the harsh words Arteta had for Pepe the one time he was sent off, whereas with the multiple times Xhaka got sent off Arteta just brushed it off - it's favouritism pure and simple

And I've heard nothing about any insubordination from Ram at all

I never really liked or rated Guendozi, but it seemed the whole world did and I was pretty shocked how fast that situation degenerated, after really only what, one public display of unprofessionalism.

I'm with you on this, I do think he is inconsistent with how he deals with players drama (a given when you are managing human beings), especially when you are coming from having a level headed AW for such a long time that was able to manage all manners of egos in the team until of course they wanted to eff off and actually win something or double their wages. I mean can you imagine how Arteta would have managed Adebayor....thinking about it is even making me laugh while I'm typing.

Age and being sacked a few times will probably improve his people skills ...but unfortunately we probably won't see a fast enough development on that while he's with us.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You've not noticed the complete refurbishment of the outside with a whole bunch of specially-commissioned new murals then? :haha: or indeed adding some extra touches inside on the concourses...?

But I agree on wifi, I.ve made that point to the club myself, there ought to be a club wifi or better mobile connectivity, at least for ST holders

nothing wrong with the seats though, they're still better than most stadiums

Personally would never set foot inside the Toilet Bowl but they can shove their seats up their arses IMO, but your own familiarity with that place seems to indicate 21Gooner was correct to call you a Spuds fan


I’ve not been since last year some of the people on here don’t even appear to have watched us on tv since then. If they’ve updated the concourses since then fair enough but to be honest that wasn’t even really what I was referring to. I specifically referred to replacing the seats, Wi Fi and installing bigger televisions from the stand gantries (maybe even a big one from the middle of the pitch)

But what’s the Mural got to do with making the stadium up to date, completely superficial and some of it looked like GCSE art frankly

[HCZ_Reborn]

I never really liked or rated Guendozi, but it seemed the whole world did and I was pretty shocked how fast that situation degenerated, after really only what, one public display of unprofessionalism.

I'm with you on this, I do think he is inconsistent with how he deals with players drama (a given when you are managing human beings), especially when you are coming from having a level headed AW for such a long time that was able to manage all manners of egos in the team until of course they wanted to eff off and actually win something or double their wages. I mean can you imagine how Arteta would have managed Adebayor....thinking about it is even making me laugh while I'm typing.

Age and being sacked a few times will probably improve his people skills ...but unfortunately we probably won't see a fast enough development on that while he's with us.


I really admire you. The way you were proven so totally and completely wrong (although I suppose that’s not new for you) and you’re still not afraid to chuck stuff at the wall to see what sticks

Guendouzi wasn’t a great player, but conversely he was better than a lot of midfielders we had at the time. How much of it was down to him being an insufferable little prick, how much was it Arteta not rating him I don’t know.

In fact there’s far more evidence for Arteta simply not rating a lot of these players from Torreira (again you ship him out but keep Elneny?) to Willock (I mean fuck me im glad we got rid of him)


Do you not think though one of Wenger’s failings was that he was a soft touch with players. Ozil was essentially picking which games he felt like playing in. As much as I think putting Auba in solitary confinement was going too far, equally if you let players do whatever the fuck they want it creates just as much disharmony

[HCZ_Reborn]

Man United agreed deal with Chelsea to sign Mason Mount. Dont get me wrong, Havertz really wouldn’t have been a signing I’d have made but I’m glad Mason Mount was just a rumour. Even the Chelsea fans think he’s shit

[dazthegooner]

On another note Ethan Nwaneri will be committing himself and has signed scholarship forms with us and he'll sign a professional contract when he turns 17 next year. https://theathletic.com/4651468/2023/06/29/ethan-nwaneri-arsenal-contract-transfer/

[HCZ_Reborn]

On another note Ethan Nwaneri will be committing himself and has signed scholarship forms with us and he'll sign a professional contract when he turns 17 next year. https://theathletic.com/4651468/2023/06/29/ethan-nwaneri-arsenal-contract-transfer/

Chelsea were after him (like how they got Omari Hutchinson)

Have no idea if he’s a decent player or not. Saw him for two minutes against Brentford and fair to say the time was not there for him to make an impression

[Marc Overmars]

That was just Arteta trolling everyone by making him the youngest PL player ever.

[HCZ_Reborn]

That was just Arteta trolling everyone by making him the youngest PL player ever.

Indeed let’s hope that he becomes more than just a pub quiz bonus round question and that he does it in an Arsenal shirt

[Niall_Quinn]

You do know I already believed you when you’ve said that you don’t watch Arsenal much

You don't need to watch more than a few minutes to figure Partey. Had plenty like him before. The idea Rice is a downgrade is incomprehensible. Record transfer fee to downgrade a star who is being shown the exit? Doesn't make sense to me, but maybe insiders who chat regularly with Arteta know the real story.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You don't need to watch more than a few minutes to figure Partey. Had plenty like him before. The idea Rice is a downgrade is incomprehensible. Record transfer fee to downgrade a star who is being shown the exit? Doesn't make sense to me, but maybe insiders who chat regularly with Arteta know the real story.

Crikey you’re as bad as the Scotsman with his Saka bollocks

Actually yes you probably do need to watch a player for more than a few minutes to gain a reasonable appraisal of what they do. And given some of the absolute dross we’ve had in midfield, I’d say Partey was a significant step up from that.

This is not to say that we can’t do better than Partey, it’s just not with Rice

The irony is there was talk of City offering Kalvin Phillips to City as a player plus cash exchange…when Phillips is clearly a better player than Rice (and he’s not that great either)

[LDG]

Partey is a very good player, but injury prone, and has a fucking legal case against him looming like he loomed over some tart on holiday.

He’s 30 with baggage. Get rid.

Is Rice the man? Dunno…but you live by the sword and chuck yourself under a bus by it, so Edu and Tets best be right or we’re all pissed off.

[Marc Overmars]

Partey is a very good player, but injury prone, and has a fucking legal case against him looming like he loomed over some tart on holiday.

He’s 30 with baggage. Get rid.

Is Rice the man? Dunno…but you live by the sword and chuck yourself under a bus by it, so Edu and Tets best be right or we’re all pissed off.

We’ll all be pissed off and Tets will be out of a job.

[mandela8]

You don't need to watch more than a few minutes to figure Partey. Had plenty like him before. The idea Rice is a downgrade is incomprehensible. Record transfer fee to downgrade a star who is being shown the exit? Doesn't make sense to me, but maybe insiders who chat regularly with Arteta know the real story.

Just fuck up, man.

[mandela8]

I never really liked or rated Guendozi, but it seemed the whole world did and I was pretty shocked how fast that situation degenerated, after really only what, one public display of unprofessionalism.

I'm with you on this, I do think he is inconsistent with how he deals with players drama (a given when you are managing human beings), especially when you are coming from having a level headed AW for such a long time that was able to manage all manners of egos in the team until of course they wanted to eff off and actually win something or double their wages. I mean can you imagine how Arteta would have managed Adebayor....thinking about it is even making me laugh while I'm typing.

Age and being sacked a few times will probably improve his people skills ...but unfortunately we probably won't see a fast enough development on that while he's with us.

Gendouzi was shite, man. I couldn't believe the acclaim he was getting for basically running around a lot.

We played Gendouzi, Xhaka and Elneny against Liverpool one game, ffs. Was soul destroying, man. Yet we have some fuckin melt on here saying Partey is the worst midfielder to play for the club :haha:

[Mac76]

Man United agreed deal with Chelsea to sign Mason Mount. Dont get me wrong, Havertz really wouldn’t have been a signing I’d have made but I’m glad Mason Mount was just a rumour. Even the Chelsea fans think he’s shit

He's also a total arsehole, say what you like abiut Havertz as a player but he seems an ok geezer at least

[Mac76]

Gendouzi was shite, man. I couldn't believe the acclaim he was getting for basically running around a lot.

We played Gendouzi, Xhaka and Elneny against Liverpool one game, ffs. Was soul destroying, man. Yet we have some fuckin melt on here saying Partey is the worst midfielder to play for the club :haha:

Guendouzi turned around that home game against Villa on his own, we need more players like that who turn up amd give it a go

[Marc Overmars]

Guendouzi was ok but that was against a backdrop of absolute shit. I’ve never been more disillusioned by an Arsenal squad than that in my life. The game was up for most of them after that unforgivable Europa League final disaster.

The quality was so low around that time anyone who put in a modicum of effort would have stood out. Anyway by all accounts he’s a dick so no qualms there towards Arteta for getting rid.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He's also a total arsehole, say what you like abiut Havertz as a player but he seems an ok geezer at least

Not personally acquainted with him

[HCZ_Reborn]

West Ham want the Dog Snogger

Sell for £105 million paid over 18 months?

[Niall_Quinn]

Just fuck up, man.

Nope.

Go back and watch him again. He's the guy who will always find the space that exposes him to the least risk. He's the guy who will always choose the safest option. He's the guy who will always slow the play down. It's little wonder he appears to be reliable, in the same way a bucket with a hole seems sound if it never carries water.

Doesn't matter anymore. It will be very easy to spot the improvement now there's a decent player in the middle. Any time I've seen Rice he's looked solid, decent enough, nothing spectacular but competent. His fee is a symptom of a silly and most likely corrupt marketplace. Regardless, he'll move the ball faster, he'll get stuck in instead of hiding and, hopefully, he won't make childish mistakes on a routine basis. Whatever the fee he should be a significant improvement.

As always, see you in a few months when the obvious has become apparent to all.

[Niall_Quinn]

Gendouzi was shite, man. I couldn't believe the acclaim he was getting for basically running around a lot.

We played Gendouzi, Xhaka and Elneny against Liverpool one game, ffs. Was soul destroying, man. Yet we have some fuckin melt on here saying Partey is the worst midfielder to play for the club :haha:

Don't exaggerate, I said he's just another in a long line of dross. Gendouzi, more of the same. Elneny, same again. That Vieira bloke, the fake one - same. You want the extra 5 points that bring you level with city? Well you won't be finding them in players like this. As we have already witnessed. As I already told you in advance. Because it's obvious.

Fans find their favourites and stick. They find their hate targets and stick. You insist Saka isn't worth the shirt, which is silly. You see deficiencies in his game that annoy you. I agree, those deficiencies exist. But are balanced and often exceeded by contributions that warrant his continued inclusion as he develops. He's a kid, he'll learn. I see a 30 year old In Partey that should know better by now. There's nothing more coming from him that compensates for his glaring deficiencies which I mentioned in another post. I don't hate Partey, I'm just calling what anyone can see if they want to look beyond the huff and the puff of a journeyman that simply won't be remembered in the annals of the club. He's just another one of those guys who's here to plug a hole and he doesn't even do that very well.

[WMUG]

. A lot of Xhaka’s sending offs have been for two yellow cards rather than outright violent conduct.

All of his reds for Arsenal have been straight reds for serious foul play or violent conduct.

https://theathletic.com/3071399/2022/01/14/why-always-xhaka-analysing-the-midfielders-five-red-cards-for-arsenal/

[Niall_Quinn]

Crikey you’re as bad as the Scotsman with his Saka bollocks

Actually yes you probably do need to watch a player for more than a few minutes to gain a reasonable appraisal of what they do. And given some of the absolute dross we’ve had in midfield, I’d say Partey was a significant step up from that.

This is not to say that we can’t do better than Partey, it’s just not with Rice

The irony is there was talk of City offering Kalvin Phillips to City as a player plus cash exchange…when Phillips is clearly a better player than Rice (and he’s not that great either)

How do you know we won't do better with Rice? Where are you getting that from? Rice is a developing player that will put Arteta to the test. He's fairly raw still. Didn't see him last season but I'm assuming he didn't go rapidly backwards if clubs were bidding £100mill? So assuming he improved. Which means more energy in the middle, a higher tempo, greater creativity in the opponent's half and a willingness to get stuck in. Your typical PL package. At least he won't be sauntering around dead space with the game passing him by, which is Partey's forte. On balance it would seem more probable Rice will improve things significantly. Will it be £100mill better? Who can say right now? But why would anyone conclude, before he kicks a ball, he won't be an improvement on a guy like Partey? Why does Arteta and the club think otherwise?

[HCZ_Reborn]

All of his reds for Arsenal have been straight reds for serious foul play or violent conduct.

https://theathletic.com/3071399/2022/01/14/why-always-xhaka-analysing-the-midfielders-five-red-cards-for-arsenal/


The most recent sending off was for a professional foul (fouling a player in on goal as the last man) and even then he actually got the ball

But yes I will concede that the dismissals were straight reds, memory clearly not what it was. But what I do remember is the two most recent sendings off were contentious.

Either way I’m still not buying that he’s this teachers pet on the training ground. The fact is whatever I think of him, three seperate coaches Wenger, Emery and Arteta have all rated him.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's a funny reaction from many Arsenal fans. For year after year we lamented the underwhelming transfer windows and the last minute nature of the dealing, the fact we couldn't go head to head with the big clubs. That has changed. Looks like all the targets will be in place by pre-season. Just beat City in a bidding war. It's what we wanted isn't it? Rice was the number one target and he's landed. The chav bloke with the difficult spelling, got him too and also looks like a defender is bagged. If Arteta things the chav can be converted to a striking role, which I'm thinking must be the plan because where else will he play, then maybe we have one of those nice outcomes ahead that we've seen before with guys like Henry and RvP. Now I'm not saying we have the new Henry aboard, all I'm saying is it'll be interesting (for a change) to see what we do have and what Arteta's vision is. Could be a bust, for sure. But if it isn't then we got the striker we needed, we got the midfielder we needed and we got a defender which at least provides the cover we needed. It's not bad. Not much to complain about.

[HCZ_Reborn]

How do you know we won't do better with Rice? Where are you getting that from? Rice is a developing player that will put Arteta to the test. He's fairly raw still. Didn't see him last season but I'm assuming he didn't go rapidly backwards if clubs were bidding £100mill? So assuming he improved. Which means more energy in the middle, a higher tempo, greater creativity in the opponent's half and a willingness to get stuck in. Your typical PL package. At least he won't be sauntering around dead space with the game passing him by, which is Partey's forte. On balance it would seem more probable Rice will improve things significantly. Will it be £100mill better? Who can say right now? But why would anyone conclude, before he kicks a ball, he won't be an improvement on a guy like Partey? Why does Arteta and the club think otherwise?

I’m going to guess you watch England play even more seldom than you watch Arsenal play. But if you did you would see how when Henderson doesn’t play (and I don’t think Henderson is that great) Rice looks all at sea…doesn’t know whether to shit or wind his wrist watch. Honestly his level is about that of Elneny.

Has little to no acceleration, can’t deal with any kind of pressing or physicality. Compare that with Caicedo who genuinely thrives under pressure and I just don’t see what Arteta is seeing in him

And No he’s not this raw youngster he’s 24.

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's a funny reaction from many Arsenal fans. For year after year we lamented the underwhelming transfer windows and the last minute nature of the dealing, the fact we couldn't go head to head with the big clubs. That has changed. Looks like all the targets will be in place by pre-season. Just beat City in a bidding war. It's what we wanted isn't it? Rice was the number one target and he's landed. The chav bloke with the difficult spelling, got him too and also looks like a defender is bagged. If Arteta things the chav can be converted to a striking role, which I'm thinking must be the plan because where else will he play, then maybe we have one of those nice outcomes ahead that we've seen before with guys like Henry and RvP. Now I'm not saying we have the new Henry aboard, all I'm saying is it'll be interesting (for a change) to see what we do have and what Arteta's vision is. Could be a bust, for sure. But if it isn't then we got the striker we needed, we got the midfielder we needed and we got a defender which at least provides the cover we needed. It's not bad. Not much to complain about.


I’m quite consistent that I never wanted Rice. Spending big money for the sake of it, might keep some of the social media simpletons happy but it does nothing for me. As far as I’m concerned I’m still living in hope that the gap over how the payment is made in terms of time scale becomes unbridgeable. If City had really wanted Rice they’d have got him, there’s no point fooling ourselves that we’ve pulled off some massive coup.
Just because people here were throwing Teddy out of the pram because they hung on every word put out about West Ham about how we wanted to structure the deal who I felt minded to make fun of. Doesn’t make this a good bit of business anymore than Havertz or Timber.
We’ve seen with Chelsea that spending big money means fuck all if you’re not spending it on the right players

[Niall_Quinn]

He's also a total arsehole, say what you like abiut Havertz as a player but he seems an ok geezer at least

Mount is a strange one. He was going to be the next big thing. Obviously that didn't work out. Always seemed to be a bit of a lightweight who could easily be bullied out of a game when it mattered. Maybe Utd think they can get more out of him as part of their annual referee subscription package.

[Mac76]

So bored of seeing mindless criticism of Elneny, he is very clear about the type of player he is and what he can do for the team, he's a tidy, well-organised player who very rarely goves the ball away (are you watching Zinchenko) and also has a good shot on him. He's very useful for the squad and as every informed football watcher knows, it's important to have players like that

[Niall_Quinn]

I’m going to guess you watch England play even more seldom than you watch Arsenal play. But if you did you would see how when Henderson doesn’t play (and I don’t think Henderson is that great) Rice looks all at sea…doesn’t know whether to shit or wind his wrist watch. Honestly his level is about that of Elneny.

Has little to no acceleration, can’t deal with any kind of pressing or physicality. Compare that with Caicedo who genuinely thrives under pressure and I just don’t see what Arteta is seeing in him

And No he’s not this raw youngster he’s 24.

LOL, England? No.

Okay, we'll see what happens with Rice. After watching Martinelli go from raw to focused talent I have a bit more faith in Arteta, or whoever is doing the business on the training ground. So I'm going to predict hit rather than miss. The vital difference will be Rice will get the ball forward quicker. It's so frustrating to watch the current midfield plod around - except on the occasions they don't when suddenly they look half decent and effective. Rice will make that happen more, IMO.

[HCZ_Reborn]

So bored of seeing mindless criticism of Elneny, he is very clear about the type of player he is and what he can do for the team, he's a tidy, well-organised player who very rarely goves the ball away (are you watching Zinchenko) and also has a good shot on him. He's very useful for the squad and as every informed football watcher knows, it's important to have players like that

He’s none of these things…no technical ability, too easy to dispossess and for such a big lad can’t deal with physicality.

If he was any of the things you stated he was, there would have been some market for him but when we wanted rid three two-three years ago we could only ship him out to Turkey on loan.

Swiss Football was where he belonged

[Niall_Quinn]

So bored of seeing mindless criticism of Elneny, he is very clear about the type of player he is and what he can do for the team, he's a tidy, well-organised player who very rarely goves the ball away (are you watching Zinchenko) and also has a good shot on him. He's very useful for the squad and as every informed football watcher knows, it's important to have players like that

Well I'm not an informed football watcher so I'll have to stick with my opinion based on what I see. I've seen plenty of decent players and Elneny's name doesn't spring to mind when I'm making a list. He's not great. He's not shit. He's just one of those players that fills out the shirt when we need to make the numbers.

[Mac76]

I hope you're rifgt, my jury's out on the player but the prive was obvs very big.

Much as I criticise Arteta I do agree he can get the best out of a player when he puts his mind to it

Just been listening to a pod about Havertz btw and I can see how it could work in the 8 position if again he gets some good coaching plus beefs himself up a bit to push away defenders etc

[HCZ_Reborn]

LOL, England? No.

Okay, we'll see what happens with Rice. After watching Martinelli go from raw to focused talent I have a bit more faith in Arteta, or whoever is doing the business on the training ground. So I'm going to predict hit rather than miss. The vital difference will be Rice will get the ball forward quicker. It's so frustrating to watch the current midfield plod around - except on the occasions they don't when suddenly they look half decent and effective. Rice will make that happen more, IMO.

Martinelli was always an obvious talent, I don’t think Arteta takes any credit for his development…in fact if not for Arteta it would have emerged sooner.

Saliba, Saka, Odegaard, Martinelli…Balogun. It feels they’ve all developed despite Arteta not because of him


This is a man who ran Willian into the ground just to prove that he hadn’t made the club pay big wages for a dud

[Niall_Quinn]

I’m quite consistent that I never wanted Rice. Spending big money for the sake of it, might keep some of the social media simpletons happy but it does nothing for me. As far as I’m concerned I’m still living in hope that the gap over how the payment is made in terms of time scale becomes unbridgeable. If City had really wanted Rice they’d have got him, there’s no point fooling ourselves that we’ve pulled off some massive coup.
Just because people here were throwing Teddy out of the pram because they hung on every word put out about West Ham about how we wanted to structure the deal who I felt minded to make fun of. Doesn’t make this a good bit of business anymore than Havertz or Timber.
We’ve seen with Chelsea that spending big money means fuck all if you’re not spending it on the right players

I wasn't in the least bit interested in the negotiations for Rice and still don't care how his fee will be structured. All I'm saying is for years people wanted us to bid the big money at the big table instead of flinging last minute under-bids around. And maybe City couldn't have landed Rice, if the latest news about their creative funding during their glorious rise is to be believed. Maybe it took that extra bid to force them to think about how it would look if they engaged money cheat code when all eyes are on them. Speculation, but what's the point in saying City could have had him if they wanted? They did want. They didn't get. Could be many reasons for the outcome, but Arsenal still bid what was necessary to land their top target despite the fact the money clubs were nosing around. It's better than the alternative, a £30mill bid for Mbappe.

[Niall_Quinn]

Martinelli was always an obvious talent, I don’t think Arteta takes any credit for his development…in fact if not for Arteta it would have emerged sooner.

Saliba, Saka, Odegaard, Martinelli…Balogun. It feels they’ve all developed despite Arteta not because of him


This is a man who ran Willian into the ground just to prove that he hadn’t made the club pay big wages for a dud

Martinelli was an over-charged box of chaos and randomness with a head that exploded at the critical moment. All that energy and directness had to be focused and disciplined. Who or how is not something we'll know. But Arteta must have had some hand in it.

At a bit of a loss here. It's very strange. For years I moaned on about transfers and the lack of ambition and the soul sapping style of play, the lack of a serious challenge, etc, etc. Others did too.

In the last few years, sadly after I finally lost interest, mostly due to the horrific cynicism and corruption running through the game, we finally see a shift in the play, we see some ambition, we see the shoots of a potential title challenge. We see the club wake up and smell the bullshit that is the modern PL and finally get stuck in with a shovel. We're part of the process again, rather than nailed-on also-rans.

So we are supposed to conclude this has happened despite the manager? Does that make much sense?

[HCZ_Reborn]

I wasn't in the least bit interested in the negotiations for Rice and still don't care how his fee will be structured. All I'm saying is for years people wanted us to bid the big money at the big table instead of flinging last minute under-bids around. And maybe City couldn't have landed Rice, if the latest news about their creative funding during their glorious rise is to be believed. Maybe it took that extra bid to force them to think about how it would look if they engaged money cheat code when all eyes are on them. Speculation, but what's the point in saying City could have had him if they wanted? They did want. They didn't get. Could be many reasons for the outcome, but Arsenal still bid what was necessary to land their top target despite the fact the money clubs were nosing around. It's better than the alternative, a £30mill bid for Mbappe.

City had a passing interest in him nothing more, West Ham essentially name dropped them to get us to up the bid…would not be surprised if City obliged with an offer that they knew wouldn’t be accepted

Well I accept it’s possible that City have issues because of their quaint insistence on falsifying their figures, when you’ve already lied to get around FFP probably wise not to be too brazen.

My point is I never cared about big money transfers just in the way I don’t care about collecting pannini stickers

I care about bringing in players that I believe will improve us. The best we can say about our summer transfers is “well i hope I’m proved wrong”

[WMUG]

Martinelli was an over-charged box of chaos and randomness with a head that exploded at the critical moment. All that energy and directness had to be focused and disciplined. Who or how is not something we'll know. But Arteta must have had some hand in it.

At a bit of a loss here. It's very strange. For years I moaned on about transfers and the lack of ambition and the soul sapping style of play, the lack of a serious challenge, etc, etc. Others did too.

In the last few years, sadly after I finally lost interest, mostly due to the horrific cynicism and corruption running through the game, we finally see a shift in the play, we see some ambition, we see the shoots of a potential title challenge. We see the club wake up and smell the bullshit that is the modern PL and finally get stuck in with a shovel. We're part of the process again, rather than nailed-on also-rans.

So we are supposed to conclude this has happened despite the manager? Does that make much sense?

It's nice to see you with some hope for once :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

Martinelli was an over-charged box of chaos and randomness with a head that exploded at the critical moment. All that energy and directness had to be focused and disciplined. Who or how is not something we'll know. But Arteta must have had some hand in it.

At a bit of a loss here. It's very strange. For years I moaned on about transfers and the lack of ambition and the soul sapping style of play, the lack of a serious challenge, etc, etc. Others did too.

In the last few years, sadly after I finally lost interest, mostly due to the horrific cynicism and corruption running through the game, we finally see a shift in the play, we see some ambition, we see the shoots of a potential title challenge. We see the club wake up and smell the bullshit that is the modern PL and finally get stuck in with a shovel. We're part of the process again, rather than nailed-on also-rans.

So we are supposed to conclude this has happened despite the manager? Does that make much sense?


If it was always obvious to me Martinelli was quality from the get go, in Emery’s last few months he was by far our most impressive player. That development stopped when Captain Black came in.

I do agree that it’s good that KSE have decided they want to invest in the club, but it’s tempered by the amount of money that has been wasted and will continue to be wasted on dud players. Fabio Vieira, Zinchenko….that’s almost 70 million we will never see again for players in positions we didn’t need and could have been spent on players in positions we did.

If we succeed it will be despite Arteta not because of him, I still stick by my belief that he should have been fired two and a half years ago.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12912196/declan-rice-arsenal-and-west-ham-still-discussing-structure-of-105m-deal-for-england-midfielder


I can genuinely see this deal falling through. Might have to treat myself to a bottle of Macallan if that happens

Whilst Caicedo is my preference, I’ve seen us linked with Tchouameni…and I’d be immensely satisfied with that

[Niall_Quinn]

Might have to treat myself to a bottle of Macallan if that happens

Explains a lot. Why not go the whole way and have a nice sherry with a slice of cake?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Explains a lot. Why not go the whole way and have a nice sherry with a slice of cake?

Let me guess Chivas Regal whilst pretending to yourself that you’re Hunter S Thompson

[Niall_Quinn]

Let me guess Chivas Regal whilst pretending to yourself that you’re Hunter S Thompson

No dude. Captain Morgan and Captain Jack Sparrow.

[HCZ_Reborn]

No dude. Captain Morgan and Captain Jack Sparrow.

Could be worse, could be white rum. I’d have to start talking to you in pidgin

[mandela8]

So bored of seeing mindless criticism of Elneny, he is very clear about the type of player he is and what he can do for the team, he's a tidy, well-organised player who very rarely goves the ball away (are you watching Zinchenko) and also has a good shot on him. He's very useful for the squad and as every informed football watcher knows, it's important to have players like that
It's not mindless at all though, man.

Elneny is just utterly pointless as a player. He offers literally nothing. You can argue he rarely gives the ball away but that actually largely the issue with him. He takes the ball from A and plays the easiest pass to C. A could just pass directly to C and save us all some time, ffs. He never attempts anything progressive and never offers any option other than a backwards or sideways pass.

That said, I've no issue with him as a squad player. Having played my entire life, still do, players like him and Holding are great to have in the squad. Players aren't machines and despite being paid incredibly well they need the right environment to optimize in. Players like Elneny and Holding help with that, so are worth their place. But let's not pretend they offer anything on the field.

[Mac76]

It's not mindless at all though, man.

Elneny is just utterly pointless as a player. He offers literally nothing. You can argue he rarely gives the ball away but that actually largely the issue with him. He takes the ball from A and plays the easiest pass to C. A could just pass directly to C and save us all some time, ffs. He never attempts anything progressive and never offers any option other than a backwards or sideways pass.

That said, I've no issue with him as a squad player. Having played my entire life, still do, players like him and Holding are great to have in the squad. Players aren't machines and despite being paid incredibly well they need the right environment to optimize in. Players like Elneny and Holding help with that, so are worth their place. But let's not pretend they offer anything on the field.

I wasn't pretending that, I just get bored with people saying 'Elneny is s**t' becasue they're essentially projecting onto him entirely false expectations regarding the type of player is or the job he can do for us

It's like complaining that a VW Golf (or pick another example if you don't like the Golf) - which is a perfectly good everyday car that does what it's supposed to do - isn't a Ferrari

That doesn't make the Golf a bad car - it just isn't a Ferrari

[Mac76]

If it was always obvious to me Martinelli was quality from the get go, in Emery’s last few months he was by far our most impressive player. That development stopped when Captain Black came in.

I do agree that it’s good that KSE have decided they want to invest in the club, but it’s tempered by the amount of money that has been wasted and will continue to be wasted on dud players. Fabio Vieira, Zinchenko….that’s almost 70 million we will never see again for players in positions we didn’t need and could have been spent on players in positions we did.

If we succeed it will be despite Arteta not because of him, I still stick by my belief that he should have been fired two and a half years ago.

NQ is correct about Martinelli and one can attribute his improvement directly to Arteta, because Arteta has talked of how he told Martinelli that he 'needed to have gears' - i.e. not be overcharged all the time as NQ puts it, but change pace and use his energy in controlled bursts.

I just wish Arteta would coach more of our players like that instead of starving them of game time and not placing any trust in them

[HCZ_Reborn]

I wasn't pretending that, I just get bored with people saying 'Elneny is s**t' becasue they're essentially projecting onto him entirely false expectations regarding the type of player is or the job he can do for us

It's like complaining that a VW Golf (or pick another example if you don't like the Golf) - which is a perfectly good everyday car that does what it's supposed to do - isn't a Ferrari

That doesn't make the Golf a bad car - it just isn't a Ferrari


No I don’t expect him to be top quality, that’s why I was ok with us signing Jorginho who is old and slow because he can do a job. Elneny can’t, I don’t know where you’re getting not easily dispossessed from….he gives away the ball like someone dropping a scalding rock under the tiniest of pressure.

[HCZ_Reborn]

NQ is correct about Martinelli and one can attribute his improvement directly to Arteta, because Arteta has talked of how he told Martinelli that he 'needed to have gears' - i.e. not be overcharged all the time as NQ puts it, but change pace and use his energy in controlled bursts.

I just wish Arteta would coach more of our players like that instead of starving them of game time and not placing any trust in them

Because Arteta said something doesn’t make it so.

[LDG]

If it was always obvious to me Martinelli was quality from the get go, in Emery’s last few months he was by far our most impressive player. That development stopped when Captain Black came in.

I do agree that it’s good that KSE have decided they want to invest in the club, but it’s tempered by the amount of money that has been wasted and will continue to be wasted on dud players. Fabio Vieira, Zinchenko….that’s almost 70 million we will never see again for players in positions we didn’t need and could have been spent on players in positions we did.

If we succeed it will be despite Arteta not because of him, I still stick by my belief that he should have been fired two and a half years ago.


Some players work out, some players don’t. This is the way

It has always been like this.

It is the same for every team, not exclusive to Arsenal or Arteta.

Like NQ says, surely some credit has to go to the manager for the upward turn. You can’t have it both ways, otherwise you’re just calling him lucky for putting us on an upward trend.

[LDG]

No dude. Captain Morgan and Captain Jack Sparrow.

Hide the rum

[HCZ_Reborn]

Some players work out, some players don’t. This is the way

It has always been like this.

It is the same for every team, not exclusive to Arsenal or Arteta.

Like NQ says, surely some credit has to go to the manager for the upward turn. You can’t have it both ways, otherwise you’re just calling him lucky for putting us on an upward trend.


Other than Chelsea, there isn’t a club who has spent more on transfers than us the last few years. Given that outlay we’ve arguably underperformed….not a single trophy in three years and it was only this season gone that we qualified for the champions league.
With Martinelli and Saka he has got lucky, Partey, Gabriel and Odegaard were his signings but collectively came to over a 100 million.
I’m not singling out Arteta here, I’m quite clear that as long as you don’t have a complete fool like Todd Boehly in charge…transfer spending should equal some kind of upward trajectory and with Arteta it often feels like his transfer targets are ones you hope you’re wrong about rather than players to be optimistic about.
There are changes Arteta has made that I think work, he’s identified where attacking moves were breaking down and has us press higher up the pitch so when the opposition clear their lines we put them under pressure again. We also had a far more fluid transition from defence into attack…but the balance is still not right, we need to address how we can break teams down that take the lead and play a deep block…and we need a midfielder that enjoys playing through the press and I don’t see how who we are looking to buy addresses these issues.

What’s the point of signing versatile utility players but incorporating them into a rigid system, we need to adapt to who we are playing.

At the risk of repeating myself ad nauseam, I really hope I’m wrong.

[Mac76]

The 'fluid transition ' has been greatly undermined by Zin, who dawdles, takes too many touches, mainly makes sideways or backwards passes (normally to the least good option available) and regularly gives the ball away, but of course he's first on Arteta's teamsheet so we're stuck with him now

It's ironic that we finally neutralised a lot of what was so damaging about Xhaka, but then brought in another deeply flawed player and made them central to our play

This is one of the main reasons I can't get that excited about next aeason, to really establish ourselves we need to be firmly top three at least but it wouldn't surprise me if just making top four again was a real challenge if we stick rigidly to Zin and that inverted LB syatem

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Mbappe, Mbappe, Mbappe :drool:

Can dreams really come true?

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-kylian-mbappe-transfer-rumours-30366754?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

[Mac76]

So we're talking about next year, 'if' we have a successful 2023-24 season... :haha:

I'm not sure that fifth place plus a first-round CL exit will cut it with Mbappe somehow

[HCZ_Reborn]

So we're talking about next year, 'if' we have a successful 2023-24 season... :haha:

I'm not sure that fifth place plus a first-round CL exit will cut it with Mbappe somehow


The thing is we have enough quality in the team to finish top four no matter the coach’s shortcomings. Mbappe would probably get us a title if he could be sold on joining us

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I also think we'll finish top 4, I'm not saying its a given, but can't see our traditional rivals being that consistent in such a short amount of time....though I'm probably not analysing things properly. I mean with Liverpool and Chelsea having nothing to play for except the league, in theory it should be a hell lot harder to stay in the top 4 next season.

As for the CL, I actually don't care about it and just hope it will not be the reason given for any major decline in our domestic performances. I can't imagine any pleasure I'd get from doing well in the CL and not challenging City for the title...naaahh. As long as we don't get hammered in our usual Bayern style, I'd be happy with whatever we get out of the competition.

It's funny though, I feel like those Liverpool Fans( 90s & 00s) who couldn't derive any pleasure from anything else but winning the league.... if you compare our story with theirs, we've had 2 close misses, I think they only had one right..not too sure.

Anyway, I still believe history supports you need to do well in other competitions to win the League, really don't get why I have this antipathy to the CL.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I also think we'll finish top 4, I'm not saying its a given, but can't see our traditional rivals being that consistent in such a short amount of time....though I'm probably not analysing things properly. I mean with Liverpool and Chelsea having nothing to play for except the league, in theory it should be a hell lot harder to stay in the top 4 next season.

As for the CL, I actually don't care about it and just hope it will not be the reason given for any major decline in our domestic performances. I can't imagine any pleasure I'd get from doing well in the CL and not challenging City for the title...naaahh. As long as we don't get hammered in our usual Bayern style, I'd be happy with whatever we get out of the competition.

It's funny though, I feel like those Liverpool Fans( 90s & 00s) who couldn't derive any pleasure from anything else but winning the league.... if you compare our story with theirs, we've had 2 close misses, I think they only had one right..not too sure.

Anyway, I still believe history supports you need to do well in other competitions to win the League, really don't get why I have this antipathy to the CL.

I just can’t see how a team that thinks it can go through a season with Trent Alexander Arnold in central midfield can get top four. It would be like us playing Maitland Niles there

[Letters]

So we're talking about next year, 'if' we have a successful 2023-24 season... :haha:

I'm not sure that fifth place plus a first-round CL exit will cut it with Mbappe somehow

Who do you think will finish above us next year and why?

[Mac76]

Who do you think will finish above us next year and why?

Well I'm obvs not certain and am sort of partly joking but I do think Liverpool and Chelsea will be better, then you've got Newcastle, Moan U and ofc Citeh, so I think it will be tough, especially if Arteta persists with his one-team, one-tactic approach

We were a surprise last season, next season won't be the same

[mandela8]

I've naw done the math, so this is a genuine question but was arsenals 2nd half of the season top 4 standard, in most seasons?

The first half of the season, with 15 wins in 18 games, or whatever it was, was the basis of the short challenge. Certainly the latter part of the 2nd half of the season was generally not great.

The pessimist in me thinks the first half of the season was the aberration and the 2nd have of the season more reflective of the quality of the team.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The first half of the season we got 50 points

The second half we got 34 points, but we also won seven games in a row in the second half of the season something we didn’t in the first half


We scored 43 goals in the second half of the season compared to 45 in the first half which suggests there wasn’t a real drop off in terms of attack and the problem was conceding goals


First half of season we conceded 16 goals and second half conceded 27 (basically an increase of over 50%)

[Letters]

Well I'm obvs not certain and am sort of partly joking but I do think Liverpool and Chelsea will be better, then you've got Newcastle, Moan U and ofc Citeh, so I think it will be tough, especially if Arteta persists with his one-team, one-tactic approach

We were a surprise last season, next season won't be the same

:gp:

I think that’s pretty much right. It’s why I can’t see us winning the league next year. City aren’t going away and other teams are building or rebuilding. But we are making some statements in the transfer window, I think we’ll finish top 4. But it could be a disappointing season given the raised expectations we now have

[Mac76]

The pessimist in me thinks the first half of the season was the aberration and the 2nd have of the season more reflective of the quality of the team.

I'd say it was as least as much the quality of the manager that was the issue

[Niall_Quinn]

Mbappe, Mbappe, Mbappe :drool:

Can dreams really come true?

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/arsenal-kylian-mbappe-transfer-rumours-30366754?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

You know the add-ons include 50% ownership of the club with this guy? He's a carnival attraction better suited to the Madrids of this world. I seriously wouldn't let a guy like this anywhere near the club.

[Niall_Quinn]

I've naw done the math, so this is a genuine question but was arsenals 2nd half of the season top 4 standard, in most seasons?

The first half of the season, with 15 wins in 18 games, or whatever it was, was the basis of the short challenge. Certainly the latter part of the 2nd half of the season was generally not great.

The pessimist in me thinks the first half of the season was the aberration and the 2nd have of the season more reflective of the quality of the team.

The opposition was weak last season. Nothing from the spuds or pool. Utd were laughable. The chavs no better. And the Geordies are still mastering their cheat mode options. It was a rare season that probably won't be repeated. But you still have to beat what's put in front of you and Arsenal did that by finally fixing some of the basics that were missing from their game, like passing the ball towards the opposition goal often at a pace that exceeded glacial. They managed to fit a bit of defending in too. So rewards were reaped in the early part of the season where nothing extra is at stake except the 3 points.

The second half of the season, when possibilities emerge and the pressure starts ramping up, exposed the ongoing problems with handling that pressure. The inevitable collapse ensued, the title was relinquished. That's the next bit that has to be fixed. The mentality is still very suspect.

But with serious action in the transfer window and building upon the basics that have been put in place I don't see why Arsenal can't compete with relatively ordinary clubs like the ones mentioned above, even if everyone else ups their game. There was a 9 point gap back to Utd, 13 to the Geordies and a gulf back to Liverpool. Arsenal would have to go backwards at quite a pace to lag behind those three.

Don't see why there shouldn't be further improvement next season, although I have no idea how Arteta will finally make them believe they can win a title and compete in Europe. I suppose you have to say Stan has done his bit with the chequebook. So now we see what Arteta is really made of.

Because the quality of the football improved for me that's more than an aberration. It must have taken a heap of work on the training ground to get that improvement. If they'd have carried on playing that abject shite instead, but still won 15 of 18 I'd definitely call it an unsustainable fluke. But the improved quality says it's more than that. Not perfect yet, by any means, but ascending from that soul crushing pit.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Havertz becomes our highest earner by quite a mile.

Honestly someone needs to give me (and probably Pogba) the number of his witchdoctor because I don't get the terms of this signing at all... I mean what happens if he actually achieves his "apparent" potential, will we be paying him a gazillion pounds then?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/havertz-arsenal-wages-chelsea-transfer-30369217.amp

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I just can’t see how a team that thinks it can go through a season with Trent Alexander Arnold in central midfield can get top four. It would be like us playing Maitland Niles there

Personally I liked AMN as a defender, don't rate any of our current fullbacks that much ahead of him, except maybe Tierney ( who we are not getting the best from anyway).

I think he would have been perfect for someone like Arteta who likes players that play like robots...but obviously he thinks otherwise.

Really hope he has a successful career ahead of him, the poor guy does have a demanding mother to take care of.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Personally I liked AMN as a defender, don't rate any of our current fullbacks that much ahead of him, except maybe Tierney ( who we are not getting the best from anyway).

I think he would have been perfect for someone like Arteta who likes players that play like robots...but obviously he thinks otherwise.

Really hope he has a successful career ahead of him, the poor guy does have a demanding mother to take care of.


The problem was that he didn’t want to play there, he insisted on wanting to be a midfielder…and his petulant behaviour predates Arteta. Fuck him basically…yes I want players with personality, but I don’t want trouble makers who are red card magnets.

Bellerin was the best right back we had until he got badly injured and became a wokester


His mum is clearly mentally Ill, she was living in a shipping crate a few years ago I shit you not

[HCZ_Reborn]

Havertz becomes our highest earner by quite a mile.

Honestly someone needs to give me (and probably Pogba) the number of his witchdoctor because I don't get the terms of this signing at all... I mean what happens if he actually achieves his "apparent" potential, will we be paying him a gazillion pounds then?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/havertz-arsenal-wages-chelsea-transfer-30369217.amp


More to do with the money he was on at Chelsea, you can’t really expect him to take a pay cut coming here. Don’t get me wrong better we didn’t sign him at all, but that was always going to be the case when you sign a player from a club with an out of control wage bill and an owner who clearly needs to wear water wings when taking a bath

[Chippy]

More to do with the money he was on at Chelsea, you can’t really expect him to take a pay cut coming here. Don’t get me wrong better we didn’t sign him at all, but that was always going to be the case when you sign a player from a club with an out of control wage bill and an owner who clearly needs to wear water wings when taking a bath
Taking a pay cut when you are a multi, multi millionaire is different to taking a pay cut for the normal man (or woman, brothers!). These fuckers haven't got a clue about normal life.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Taking a pay cut when you are a multi, multi millionaire is different to taking a pay cut for the normal man (or woman, brothers!). These fuckers haven't got a clue about normal life.

What’s that got to do with anything?

Whilst it’s true, it’s got nothing to do with what we are talking about


The fact is if you’re earning a fuck ton, you’re not going to consent to earning less of a fuck ton elsewhere it makes no sense.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

More to do with the money he was on at Chelsea, you can’t really expect him to take a pay cut coming here. Don’t get me wrong better we didn’t sign him at all, but that was always going to be the case when you sign a player from a club with an out of control wage bill and an owner who clearly needs to wear water wings when taking a bath

Reports suggest he was slightly on less than 300k at the Chavs, so we've rewarded him with an over 10% increase for what exactly? No wonder this deal went through so fast, clearly the Chavs got one over us with this.

Its too late, but we really should have thought this over properly, its not like he is filling any gaping hole we have in the team so I really don't get the urgency of this signing nor the terms.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Reports suggest he was slightly on less than 300k at the Chavs, so we've rewarded him with an over 10% increase for what exactly? No wonder this deal went through so fast, clearly the Chavs got one over us with this.

Its too late, but we really should have thought this over properly, its not like he is filling any gaping hole we have in the team so I really don't get the urgency of this signing nor the terms.

10% increase is hardly astronomical even if you’re on astronomical wages

Well yes I agree that the transfer fee was too much, but then again it’s a deal worth 65 million so who knows what add ons were added.

Have no idea what we want him for, not a transfer I particularly pine for….but think it clear Arteta wanted the player for some reason best known only to him

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

What’s that got to do with anything?

Whilst it’s true, it’s got nothing to do with what we are talking about


The fact is if you’re earning a fuck ton, you’re not going to consent to earning less of a fuck ton elsewhere it makes no sense.

Well if its to save your career (and clearly his needs saving with his output and the amount of suitors he had) a paycut is arguable.

Balotelli at his prime (age wise anyway) took one to move to Liverpool, Coutinho did so to join Bayern, Pogba did so to join Juve and Aguero (i think on a free) did so for Barca.

Put simply, is Kai doing us a favour joining us or is it the other way round?

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Have no idea what we want him for, not a transfer I particularly pine for….but think it clear Arteta wanted the player for some reason best known only to him

We agree on this.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well if its to save your career (and clearly his needs saving with his output and the amount of suitors he had) a paycut is arguable.

Balotelli at his prime (age wise anyway) took one to move to Liverpool, Coutinho did so to join Bayern, Pogba did so to join Juve and Aguero (i think on a free) did so for Barca.

Put simply, is Kai doing us a favour joining us or is it the other way round?


I think he probably would have gone back to Germany if we hadn’t bought him. I don’t get the impression he felt his career was at a precipice.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think he probably would have gone back to Germany if we hadn’t bought him. I don’t get the impression he felt his career was at a precipice.

Well seeing as the top 10 highest earning players in Germany all play for Bayern and their highest earner is Neuer (clearly on merit) at £338k a week, I am struggling to see if he could have gotten similar terms without having a heavily discounted transfer fee....which is what I believe should have happened in our case. Lets not forget we sold Auba and got rid of Ozil at great discounts to achieve exactly what Chelsea has done.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Well seeing as the top 10 highest earning players in Germany all play for Bayern and their highest earner is Neuer (clearly on merit) at £338k a week, I am struggling to see if he could have gotten similar terms without having a heavily discounted transfer fee....which is what I believe should have happened in our case. Lets not forget we sold Auba and got rid of Ozil at great discounts to achieve exactly what Chelsea has done.


The point is he likely had options, so joining us wasn’t a last chance for his career so there was no need for him to take a pay cut, it’s clear we didn’t have an issue paying those wages…so there we are. Genuinely thinks Arteta sees Havertz as being the Salah for Liverpool or De Bruyne for Chelsea that didn’t work out at Chelsea, whether that turns out to be the case who knows…will have to wait and see…don’t even know what position he’s going to play.

At this point don’t really give a fuck about his wages one way or the other.

[Mac76]

Havertz becomes our highest earner by quite a mile.

Honestly someone needs to give me (and probably Pogba) the number of his witchdoctor because I don't get the terms of this signing at all... I mean what happens if he actually achieves his "apparent" potential, will we be paying him a gazillion pounds then?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/havertz-arsenal-wages-chelsea-transfer-30369217.amp

If that's the case Arteta and Edu had better brace themsleves for a whole bunch of new wage demands from other players, it just breeds resentment

[Mac76]

Personally I liked AMN as a defender, don't rate any of our current fullbacks that much ahead of him, except maybe Tierney ( who we are not getting the best from anyway).

I think he would have been perfect for someone like Arteta who likes players that play like robots...but obviously he thinks otherwise.

Really hope he has a successful career ahead of him, the poor guy does have a demanding mother to take care of.

Yeah if AMN had just accepted he was actually a good RB, he could actually have been playing quite a few games at the end of the season given the issues we had in defence

[HCZ_Reborn]

If that's the case Arteta and Edu had better brace themsleves for a whole bunch of new wage demands from other players, it just breeds resentment

We’ve recently tied down a load of players to new contracts, at the moment there isn’t really anyone in a strong position to make such demands. This idea that we were going to pay as much as we did for this guy and then offer him less seems counter-intuitive.

We are in agreement that this is a high risk signing, that doesn’t seem obviously to make sense. But it does make sense that if you want this player you’re going to pay him what he was on before (and more so)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yeah if AMN had just accepted he was actually a good RB, he could actually have been playing quite a few games at the end of the season given the issues we had in defence

Be interesting to see what this Dutchman is like. I think probably means Tomoyasu is gone (no great loss)

[mandela8]

Reports suggest he was slightly on less than 300k at the Chavs, so we've rewarded him with an over 10% increase for what exactly? No wonder this deal went through so fast, clearly the Chavs got one over us with this.

Its too late, but we really should have thought this over properly, its not like he is filling any gaping hole we have in the team so I really don't get the urgency of this signing nor the terms.
The initial reports where he was on 210 at Chelsea and that's what he took for arsenal. There's no way he was on 300 at Chelsea and no way arsenal have him such a pay raise. Wouldn't believe the Mirror.


What are Kai Havertz’s contract details at Arsenal?
He is expected to sign a long-term contract that aligns with the current wages of 210,000 pounds, 265,000 dollars, per week at Stamford Bridge. The length of the deal will be around 5 five years.

https://en.as.com/soccer/arsenal-signs-chelseas-kai-havertz-what-do-we-know-jersey-number-contract-details-n/

[Mac76]

We’ve recently tied down a load of players to new contracts, at the moment there isn’t really anyone in a strong position to make such demands. This idea that we were going to pay as much as we did for this guy and then offer him less seems counter-intuitive.

We are in agreement that this is a high risk signing, that doesn’t seem obviously to make sense. But it does make sense that if you want this player you’re going to pay him what he was on before (and more so)

fair point re renewed contracts, but that won't potentially stop some resentment, could even make it worse adn will up the stakes for any other significant signings we make

apparently, while there's conflicting reports, some say he's on as much as double what he was on before and given that was Chelsea, if true it sounds a bit over the top

[HCZ_Reborn]

fair point re renewed contracts, but that won't potentially stop some resentment, could even make it worse adn will up the stakes for any other significant signings we make

apparently he's on as much as double what he was on before and given that was Chelsea, it sounds a bit over the top

I don’t believe for a second we’ve doubled his wages. I think the Scotsman actually has a point that this is paper talk where they are just pulling money figures out of their fat arses

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The point is he likely had options, so joining us wasn’t a last chance for his career so there was no need for him to take a pay cut, it’s clear we didn’t have an issue paying those wages…so there we are. Genuinely thinks Arteta sees Havertz as being the Salah for Liverpool or De Bruyne for Chelsea that didn’t work out at Chelsea, whether that turns out to be the case who knows…will have to wait and see…don’t even know what position he’s going to play.

At this point don’t really give a fuck about his wages one way or the other.

Both players you mentioned didn't break the wage ceilings when they joined their respective clubs and DeBruyne in particular had a spectacular season with Wolfsburg where he practically rebuilt his reputation, which was why City agreed to pay the second highest transfer fee in the EPL at that time for an EPL flop.

We'll probably need to leave this discussion where it is. My opinion is this hasn't been a great deal by any stretch of the imagination...but I do hope we get value from him, though we've started off on the wrong foot already.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

The initial reports where he was on 210 at Chelsea and that's what he took for arsenal. There's no way he was on 300 at Chelsea and no way arsenal have him such a pay raise. Wouldn't believe the Mirror.


What are Kai Havertz’s contract details at Arsenal?
He is expected to sign a long-term contract that aligns with the current wages of 210,000 pounds, 265,000 dollars, per week at Stamford Bridge. The length of the deal will be around 5 five years.

https://en.as.com/soccer/arsenal-signs-chelseas-kai-havertz-what-do-we-know-jersey-number-contract-details-n/

I really hope your source is true, though I seriously doubt it as most sources on the net have for ages put Kai's salary at the Chavs as 290- 310 a week...and this was way before we came into the mix. Also the report of his salary (@ Arsenal) came from a german newspaper initially.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Both players you mentioned didn't break the wage ceilings when they joined their respective clubs and DeBruyne in particular had a spectacular season with Wolfsburg where he practically rebuilt his reputation, which was why City agreed to pay the second highest transfer fee in the EPL at that time for an EPL flop.

We'll probably need to leave this discussion where it is. My opinion is this hasn't been a great deal by any stretch of the imagination...but I do hope we get value from him, though we've started on the wrong foot already.


You’re worse than me for being a contrarian. First off as the Scotsman has said you actually have nothing to go on but speculation as to what he’s actually on.

Second of all you were ranting and raving at the beginning of the year because we didn’t pay what amounted to a ridiculous amount for a completely unknown player.

De Bruyne was good at Wolfsburg, Salah played well at Roma, Havertz was a top player at Leverkusen. The thinking is that the common denominator is that it’s hard for players to make a breakthrough at Chelsea. Now I grant you that the difference is Havertz has played plenty of games for Chelsea where as the other two did not.

End of the day, we are both in agreement that this is at the very minimum a high risk move…one that i wouldn’t have done and would have wanted to pay about two thirds maximum what we did. But as keep pointing out we don’t fully know what wages he’s on, but ultimately it makes sense for those wages to be equivalent to what they were at Chelsea (and we aren’t massively clear on that). I have a breakdown of the highest paid players in the premier league which goes from 400k a week which De Bruyne is on to 190k a week and Havertz isn’t even on the list.

And as i said to Mac I just don’t buy that we would have doubled his wages

[mandela8]

I really hope your source is true, though I seriously doubt it as most sources on the net have for ages put Kai's salary at the Chavs as 290- 310 a week...and this was way before we came into the mix. Also the report of his salary (@ Arsenal) came from a german newspaper initially.

I think all of these recent sources are pulling from the same Mirror source though. Plus, just the fact it runs counter to the apparent strategy of the club. Only Jesus and Partey were on over 200, and they were both bought as established players for high paying teams.

Although, apparently the club gave Saka 180 a week, which makes Havertz on 300 look good value, tbh.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think all of these recent sources are pulling from the same Mirror source though. Plus, just the fact it runs counter to the apparent strategy of the club. Only Jesus and Partey were on over 200, and they were both bought as established players for high paying teams.

Although, apparently the club gave Saka 180 a week, which makes Havertz on 300 look good value, tbh.


I’ve never seen someone so determined to undermine their own credibility as you


But…then again you are a Scots Nationalist and that is the current trend for them

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

You’re worse than me for being a contrarian. First off as the Scotsman has said you actually have nothing to go on but speculation as to what he’s actually on.

Second of all you were ranting and raving at the beginning of the year because we didn’t pay what amounted to a ridiculous amount for a completely unknown player.

De Bruyne was good at Wolfsburg, Salah played well at Roma, Havertz was a top player at Leverkusen. The thinking is that the common denominator is that it’s hard for players to make a breakthrough at Chelsea. Now I grant you that the difference is Havertz has played plenty of games for Chelsea where as the other two did not.

End of the day, we are both in agreement that this is at the very minimum a high risk move…one that i wouldn’t have done and would have wanted to pay about two thirds maximum what we did. But as keep pointing out we don’t fully know what wages he’s on, but ultimately it makes sense for those wages to be equivalent to what they were at Chelsea (and we aren’t massively clear on that). I have a breakdown of the highest paid players in the premier league which goes from 400k a week which De Bruyne is on to 190k a week and Havertz isn’t even on the list.

And as i said to Mac I just don’t buy that we would have doubled his wages

Discussions with you will remain simply impossible because you always try and put everything in those boxes you choose to create for yourself.

I'm not going to belabour this, because its as clear as day what I am saying.

We can all choose and pick our sources if the ultimate aim of every single discussion here is to be proven right. If you choose to jump and believe an unknown website and I choose to follow the best selling newspaper in Germany( and Europe btw) regarding issues concerning a german player with the preponderance of other known media sites and chelsea club boards saying the same thing, then so be it.

This discussion just has one real truth, do you believe this deal is value? Once that is answered truthfully there really is no need go on (especially by shifting the arguement) IMO.

Time will sort out the rest.

Like I said earlier, I sincerely hope he proves me wrong.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think all of these recent sources are pulling from the same Mirror source though. Plus, just the fact it runs counter to the apparent strategy of the club. Only Jesus and Partey were on over 200, and they were both bought as established players for high paying teams.

Although, apparently the club gave Saka 180 a week, which makes Havertz on 300 look good value, tbh.

Lol...you really must be seeing Saka in your nightmares.

Yeah, they are all quoting from Bild, though Bild was also the first that revealed his salary when he signed for Chelsea. I'll check to see if his agent is German and probably leaking the info.

But more damning is that practically every Chelsea board puts him as their 2nd highest earner, next to the disaster that is Sterling of course.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Discussions with you will remain simply impossible because you always try and put everything in those boxes you choose to create for yourself.

I'm not going to belabour this, because its as clear as day what I am saying.

We can all choose and pick our sources if the ultimate aim of every single discussion here is to be proven right. If you choose to jump and believe an unknown website and I choose to follow the best selling newspaper in Germany( and Europe btw) regarding issues concerning a german player with the preponderance of other known media sites and chelsea club boards saying the same thing, then so be it.

This discussion just has one real truth, do you believe this deal is value? Once that is answered truthfully their really is no need go on (especially by shifting the arguement) IMO.

Time will sort out the rest.

Like I said earlier, I sincerely hope he proves me wrong.


Again I’ve been consistent with the point I’ve made all along which is that as we decided we wanted the player the wages he’s on here would be equivalent to what he’s on at Chelsea.

I get you’re saying you didn’t agree with the transfer, but as I say I’m talking specifically about the wages…we both agree the transfer is high risk with the reward factor being far from obvious.

But in terms of wages, the first thing to note is that Bild would have put the figure in euros and a lot of British reporters don’t bother translating into pounds (seen this happen countless times) which would make his earnings roughly equivalent with what Gabriel Jesus earns.

But again if it needs putting in its most simplistic terms, yes I question the transfer, but I don’t buy into this idea of it being especially egregious that we didn’t pay him less than what he was on at Chelsea

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Again I’ve been consistent with the point I’ve made all along which is that as we decided we wanted the player the wages he’s on here would be equivalent to what he’s on at Chelsea.

I get you’re saying you didn’t agree with the transfer, but as I say I’m talking specifically about the wages…we both agree the transfer is high risk with the reward factor being far from obvious.

But in terms of wages, the first thing to note is that Bild would have put the figure in euros and a lot of British reporters don’t bother translating into pounds (seen this happen countless times) which would make his earnings roughly equivalent with what Gabriel Jesus earns.

But again if it needs putting in its most simplistic terms, yes I question the transfer, but I don’t buy into this idea of it being especially egregious that we didn’t pay him less than what he was on at Chelsea

Fair point then, the latter remains our disagreement. I realistically think we should have either gotten a discount on the transfer fee or one with his wages..... we are paying top dollar for someone who has already failed at the first hurdle.

[Mac76]

On another note, what's holding up our offloading Xhaka, I thought it was basically a done deal to Germany and now we have Havertz who it seems will play 8, why doesn't that get done?

I've got champagne on ice over here... ;)

And what about all the rest of the deadwood, Tavares, Pepe, Lokonga, Eddie etc?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fair point then, the latter remains our disagreement. I realistically think we should have either gotten a discount on the transfer fee or one with his wages..... we are paying top dollar for someone who has already failed at the first hurdle.

And I just don’t see that as a realistic complaint (in that another club would have managed to decrease his wages, when likely had we not bought him he’d have stayed where he was). Ultimately it’s all tied in to whether you want the transfer or not, if we wanted the player enough to pay 65 million (or whatever it ends up being) it stands to reason we understood what we were going to be paying the player.

There’s no Chelsea player I want to make them the highest earner at the club (if indeed that is the case) but that’s my assessment of the players qualities rather than thinking we should have haggled over wage demand

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

On another note, what's holding up our offloading Xhaka, I thought it was basically a done deal to Germany and now we have Havertz who it seems will play 8, why doesn't that get done?

I've got champagne on ice over here... ;)

And what about all the rest of the deadwood, Tavares, Pepe, Lokonga, Eddie etc?

Practically all the players you mentioned aren't creating a buzz, which isn't a surprise.

Though with the way Mourinho was mouthing off, I was hoping he'd create a mini bidding war for Xhaka.


"Granit Xhaka is the main man in the entire Arsenal midfield, you can’t see it unless I lend you one of my eyes. Without him, Arsenal is lost."

[HCZ_Reborn]

On another note, what's holding up our offloading Xhaka, I thought it was basically a done deal to Germany and now we have Havertz who it seems will play 8, why doesn't that get done?

I've got champagne on ice over here... ;)

And what about all the rest of the deadwood, Tavares, Pepe, Lokonga, Eddie etc?


I suspect with Xhaka it’s waiting for Rice to be confirmed


Pepe? Actually don’t know what’s going to happen there. I wouldn’t have massive problem keeping him, but suspect will want him off the wage bill

Lokonga….well your problem there is who is going to want him? That looks like a deadline day loan move to me


Eddie, I think that’s wishful thinking on your part


The dog snogger is wanted by West Ham apparently

[Mac76]

Surely someone like Palace or one of the promoted clubs would be in for Eddie or even some of the others

Maybe we're asking stupid money for some of these players or we're too busy putting our heads up Rice's backside

[HCZ_Reborn]

Surely someone like Palace or one of the promoted clubs would be in for Eddie or even some of the others

Maybe we're asking stupid money for some of these players or we're too busy putting our heads up Rice's backside


On loan maybe


I think you’re going to have to deal with the almost certainty that Edward is staying with us


Holding, Tavares, Pepe, Lokonga, Xhaka, Tomoyasu , Balogun, Vieira I think these will all go either permanently or on loan

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Surely someone like Palace or one of the promoted clubs would be in for Eddie or even some of the others

Maybe we're asking stupid money for some of these players or we're too busy putting our heads up Rice's backside

I doubt the problem is the bolded.... I mean when was the last time we got a decent transfer fee for anyone? Iwobi maybe, but he's practically been Everton's best player since he joined them, so that should count as a steal on their part.

[Mac76]

Sure, what happens is we overcharge on dross and then let players like Ramsey go on a free

Iwobi is a rare example of where we got it right

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sure, what happens is we overcharge on dross and then let players like Ramsey go on a free

Iwobi is a rare example of where we got it right

Oh man, you’ve got plenty of examples to choose from and you go with Ramsey??

:haha: fucking hell. He wanted 400k a week, plus frankly id have been happy if we’d paid to be rid of him


Torreira is the one that bugs me, should have made our money back for him.

[Marc Overmars]

Ox and Iwobi are the only sales we’ve made in recent times that we did well out of. The rest have just either been moved on for free or for nominal fees. Speaks volumes really about how low our stock had fallen, there wasn’t really anyone desirable enough playing for Arsenal. Arteta inherited a squad full of overrated players coasting on generous contracts given to them by the previous regime.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ox and Iwobi are the only sales we’ve made in recent times that we did well out of. The rest have just either been moved on for free or for nominal fees. Speaks volumes really about how low our stock had fallen, there wasn’t really anyone desirable enough playing for Arsenal. Arteta inherited a squad full of overrated players coasting on generous contracts given to them by the previous regime.


Oh I think we did well selling Willock for what we did.

[mandela8]

Lol...you really must be seeing Saka in your nightmares.

Yeah, they are all quoting from Bild, though Bild was also the first that revealed his salary when he signed for Chelsea. I'll check to see if his agent is German and probably leaking the info.

But more damning is that practically every Chelsea board puts him as their 2nd highest earner, next to the disaster that is Sterling of course.

Mad if true but I just don't see it, man. Like I said, sources aside, it kinda runs counter to the apparent strategy the club are trying to implement.

He was also 20/21 when Chelsea signed him so he wasn't getting over 300k then. Even 200k would be fuckin huge for someone that age but it's easy to forget just how highly regarded he was coming out of Germany, tbf.

None of it makes any sense.

Him being on around 200k and accepting the same after an underwhelming 3 years seems more likely to me.

[Marc Overmars]

Oh I think we did well selling Willock for what we did.

Slipped my mind that we got 25m for him. Though in fairness that’s probably been decent value for Newcastle given his performances for them so far.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Slipped my mind that we got 25m for him. Though in fairness that’s probably been decent value for Newcastle given his performances for them so far.

Nah he’s mid table player, they will get rid of him soon enough

[Mac76]

Oh man, you’ve got plenty of examples to choose from and you go with Ramsey??

:haha: fucking hell. He wanted 400k a week, plus frankly id have been happy if we’d paid to be rid of him


Torreira is the one that bugs me, should have made our money back for him.

we should have sold Ramsey a year earlier and got a transfer fee, instead we juat ran his contract down and he left for nothing

[HCZ_Reborn]

we should have sold Ramsey a year earlier and got a transfer fee, instead we juat ran his contract down and he left for nothing

Should have sold him many years before because he was shit


But in reality the summer before was when Wenger left and Emery hadn’t made his mind up whether he wanted Ramsey or not


A better example would have been the crock Wilshere who should have been sold. But MO makes the point that players we brought in were of little value. Just like there wasn’t a big demand for United’s players after Ferguson left.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sanchez was another one we should have sold given the silly money City offered us


But also we got 20 million for Walcott, 18 million for Giroud and even 12 million for Coquelin in the winter window of 2018. Which actually wasn’t all that bad.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Tchouameni is apparently still on the drawing board even when Rice crosses the line which would definitely spell the end for TP.

[Mac76]

Sanchez was another one we should have sold given the silly money City offered us

We'd have not had a striker of any note if we had and anyway we did then do that excellent swap with Man U, giving them him for Mkhitaryan... :whistle:

[HCZ_Reborn]

We'd have not had a striker of any note if we had and anyway we did then do that excellent swap with Man U, giving them him for Mkhitaryan... :whistle:

True, I think I’m just highlighting that we eschewed the chance to get a lot of money for him

Would have been interesting to see if things had worked out any differently for him at City than they did at United

And we’d have only wasted the money on Kendrick Lamar

[Mac76]

well i was sort of joking about Mkhiki, apart from one very good goal am not sure he did much - thougth it was hilarious that Moan U spent so much on Sanchez only for it not to work out though... :lol:

An not sure Sanchez was tameable by anyone, even Pep, but would have been interesting to see him try

[HCZ_Reborn]

well i was sort of joking about Mkhiki, apart from one very good goal am not sure he did much - thougth it was hilarious that Moan U spent so much on Sanchez only for it not to work out though... :lol:

An not sure Sanchez was tameable by anyone, even Pep, but would have been interesting to see him try

More referring to the whole we didn’t have another striker thing

I didn’t mind mykhtarian (not even going to pretend I’ve spelt that correctly). I think we were right to get rid of him when we did, and I do wish we’d bought him earlier in his career. But had a few good games for us.

At best he was an ok squad option

Sanchez was a lazy individual and in the end seemed to show little regard for even the basic levels of personal fitness.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

More referring to the whole we didn’t have another striker thing

I didn’t mind mykhtarian (not even going to pretend I’ve spelt that correctly). I think we were right to get rid of him when we did, and I do wish we’d bought him earlier in his career. But had a few good games for us.

At best he was an ok squad option

Sanchez was a lazy individual and in the end seemed to show little regard for even the basic levels of personal fitness.

Thats the South American curse in play, regularly taking down "could've been" greats like Baptista, Adriano, Real Ronaldo, Real Denilson, Robinho etc. ....usually always affecting their attacking players.

Its strange though, their defensive players are able to keep being professional level heads who usually outdo their European counterparts by playing at a high level till almost 40!

Football is 80% "in the head" when you think about it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Thats the South American curse in play, regularly taking down "could've been" greats like Baptista, Adriano, Real Ronaldo, Real Denilson, Robinho etc. ....usually always affecting their attacking players.

Its strange though, their defensive players are able to keep being professional level heads who usually outdo their European counterparts by playing at a high level till almost 40!

Football is 80% "in the head" when you think about it.


Sanchez wasn’t immensely talented in a technical sense, he was strong and quick but because he was one footed didn’t have tremendous ball control. Good shot on him though, but essentially as you get older that testosterone fuelled bulldozing just isn’t there anymore.

I guess to your point, South American football is all about admiration for ball skills whether it’s the Brazillian Joga Bonito…or the brilliance of Diego Armando. Less focus on the obdurate tough tackler who is left to get on with their game, whilst the immensely talented and coordinated players risk the hedonism of booze, yayo and girls because of their high profile.

[HCZ_Reborn]

On the whole Xhaka saga, reading somewhere that a fee of €25 million Euros has been agreed between ourselves and Leverkusen for him

[Mac76]

I only just found out we sold Pablo Mari to Monza for about £6m - buying him was a condition of their staying up apparently - not exactly a fortune but at least it's one player off the wage bill

[Marc Overmars]

Apparently we’re close to agreeing a 21.5m fee with Leverkusen for Xhaka.

Decent sale that.

[Mac76]

Apparently we’re close to agreeing a 21.5m fee with Leverkusen for Xhaka.

Decent sale that.

:gp:

[mandela8]

I genuinely think us paying 20m to cancel Xhaka's comment would retirement great value/business for the club.

Getting actual money for him is incredible.

[Mac76]

I genuinely think us paying 20m to cancel Xhaka's comment would retirement great value/business for the club.

Getting actual money for him is incredible.

I would have said- and indeed did say - that one season before, last season was the first time he came close to earning his money - he stil owes us for the previous five seasons though

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I would have said- and indeed did say - that one season before, last season was the first time he came close to earning his money - he stil owes us for the previous five seasons though

The faster he goes, the better. I really don't want him as an option which should prevent our great manager defaulting to type and picking him no matter what (though he could always beg Leverkusen to loan him back to us :lol: )

[Mac76]

The faster he goes, the better. I really don't want him as an option which should prevent our great manager defaulting to type and picking him no matter what (though he could always beg Leverkusen to loan him back to us :lol: )

oh agreed, i wasn't saying don't get rid of him just that we should get a fee whereas a year ago i woudl also have literally said we should pay for someone to take him off our hands

tbh i think it's done now we've got Havertz

[HCZ_Reborn]

The faster he goes, the better. I really don't want him as an option which should prevent our great manager defaulting to type and picking him no matter what (though he could always beg Leverkusen to loan him back to us :lol: )

The one thing linking Wenger, Good Ebening and Arteta was Xhaka, he was a first choice for all three. Now I agree with you that this was exasperating but for some reason all three rated him and it wasn’t simply a case of being financially constrained.

But I’m happy for him to go. I just hope that if we do play Havertz there he’s more effective than anaemia boy

[Mac76]

The one thing linking Wenger, Good Ebening and Arteta was Xhaka, he was a first choice for all three. Now I agree with you that this was exasperating but for some reason all three rated him and it wasn’t simply a case of being financially constrained.


for a millionth time, it's because he was a teacher's pet on the training ground and would run around ten thousand traffic cones a day etc - sure you need some discipline but that's not what i'm talking about - Wenger didn't care at that point and just let players do what they wanted, and Emery and Arteta both suffer from low self-esteem and have to be the boss, they're not big enough to take on people who aren't just 'yes sir no sir' types

[HCZ_Reborn]

for a millionth time, it's because he was a teacher's pet on the training ground and would run around ten thousand traffic cones a day etc - sure you need some discipline but that's not what i'm talking about - Wenger didn't care at that point and just let players do what they wanted, and Emery and Arteta both suffer from low self-esteem and have to be the boss, they're not big enough to take on people who aren't just 'yes sir no sir' types

For the millionth time, you need to learn there’s a difference between saying something and it being true

I haven’t seen anything about Xhaka being especially obsequious or a brown noser, and frankly it sounds like you’re trying to fill the gaps in your understanding. A bit like how people who didn’t understand the weather cycle assumed one needed to make propitiations to the god of rain in order for your crops to receive the water to become fertile.

I don’t rate him, you don’t rate him….but it’s clear these coaches did

[Mac76]

I don’t rate him, you don’t rate him….but it’s clear these coaches did

...and his consistently woeful performances for five seasons showed they were all wrong - coaches can be wrong you know, even several in a row, as Man Utd have discovered

it's amazing, you keep going on Arteta and what you think's wrong with him but apparently you're the only person who's allowed to do so, whenever I or anyone else criticises him, we're wrong and have psychological problems according to you (talk about pots and kettles btw)

you accused me of policing this board but it's actually you that contradicts anyone who disagrees with you into the ground and ultimately ends up resorting to personal abuse if you can't win in any other way

[HCZ_Reborn]

...and his consistently woeful performances for five seasons showed they were all wrong - coaches can be wrong you know, even several in a row, as Man Utd have discovered

it's amazing, you keep going on Arteta and what you think's wrong with him but apparently you're the only person who's allowed to do so, whenever I or anyone else criticises him, we're wrong and have psychological problems according to you (talk about pots and kettles btw)

you accused me of policing this board but it's actually you that contradicts anyone who disagrees with you into the ground and ultimately ends up resorting to personal abuse if you can't win in any other way

You’re missing the point, it’s not a case of whether the coaches are right or wrong.

It’s a case of objecting to making assumptions based on little evidence. It’s clear I think all coaches were mistaken about Xhaka


Contradicting people isn’t trying to police postings, you constantly ask people why they are posting something especially when it comes to politics and attribute uncharitable motivations. I’m disagreeing with you and if I think you’re making specious arguments I’m not going to dress it up. I can’t make personal remarks to people here because I don’t know anyone personally….but again if I think people are just whining I’m not inclined to enable that by playing nice.

If your opinion is that Xhaka is a teachers pet…I respectfully disagree, if you are asserting it I’m going to think you’re being a bit daft

[mandela8]

I would have said- and indeed did say - that one season before, last season was the first time he came close to earning his money - he stil owes us for the previous five seasons though

I think his performances this season have been overblown, man. He had a weird purple goalscoring patch at in the first few games but his performance were still dire. He just wasn't showcased on blooper reels because he was moved further away from where he's a bomb scare and had an extra player (Zinchenko) next him. His Man City away performance was his worst in an arsenal shirt for me.

Regardless, you're 100% right in your teachers pet theory and this is one thing surely all arsenal fans can rejoice in, so let's just enjoy saying good riddance to the mong.

[Marc Overmars]

I’d imagine Xhaka’s worth is only something seen by his teammates and coaches. You always get players like that who are ridiculed from the outside but highly thought of internally.

Glad he’s moving on though, I think we’ll notice an immediate difference without his dithering and lack of pace in the middle.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Also I don’t think I’ve accused you of having psychological problems, I’ve called you a little bitch (not a comment I’d usually make but I’m aware of how you’ve previously responded to casual misogyny) and I’ve inferred noncery in other posters but the truth there is that not even a Nonce likes being accused of being a Nonce.

Does it add anything to my arguments? No clearly not, but still think it’s a bit too scattergun to be personal.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/lokonga-arsenal-transfer-latest-b1091966.html

Above is another player I'd be glad to see the back of. To think we scouted this kid for quite a while before bringing him in..... I've personally seen nothing in him that makes him better than any of the youngsters we've seen go through our revolving doors. I think what pissed me off was that while everyone started last season like they were on steroids, his performances when called on were pretty insipid and lifeless (a sort of Anti-Xhaka :lol: ).

Again, I wouldn't want him as an option next season, regardless of whatever the stats say about his performances.

[Mac76]

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/lokonga-arsenal-transfer-latest-b1091966.html

Above is another player I'd be glad to see the back of. To think we scouted this kid for quite a while before bringing him in..... I've personally seen nothing in him that makes him better than any of the youngsters we've seen go through our revolving doors. I think what pissed me off was that while everyone started last season like they were on steroids, his performances when called on were pretty insipid and lifeless (a sort of Anti-Xhaka :lol: ).

Again, I wouldn't want him as an option next season, regardless of whatever the stats say about his performances.

I agree he didn't succeed but there's something about him and Tavares' signings that say Arteta wasn't prepared to put the work in to coach them, it was sink or swim . Those were both Arteta/Edu singings I think, post Raul, so they can't blame dodgy agents for those.

I find of feel sorry for both of them, wrong club wrong time, I want them to be offloaded but hope they do well elsewhere

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I agree he didn't succeed but there's something about him and Tavares' signings that say Arteta wasn't prepared to put the work in to coach them, it was sink or swim . Those were both Arteta/Edu singings I think, post Raul, so they can't blame dodgy agents for those.

I find of feel sorry for both of them, wrong club wrong time, I want them to be offloaded but hope they do well elsewhere

I also hope he does well wherever he goes, but the EPL is not made for players in his mold IMO. The kid has some potential but I have seen absolutely no evidence of "fight" in him.

[Marc Overmars]

Lokonga is shite. Sell him to Burnley as it was Kompany who recommended him from Anderlecht.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Lokonga is shite. Sell him to Burnley as it was Kompany who recommended him from Anderlecht.

Cunt (Kompany)

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/lokonga-arsenal-transfer-latest-b1091966.html

Above is another player I'd be glad to see the back of. To think we scouted this kid for quite a while before bringing him in..... I've personally seen nothing in him that makes him better than any of the youngsters we've seen go through our revolving doors. I think what pissed me off was that while everyone started last season like they were on steroids, his performances when called on were pretty insipid and lifeless (a sort of Anti-Xhaka :lol: ).

Again, I wouldn't want him as an option next season, regardless of whatever the stats say about his performances.


A year or so ago when Arteta subbed him at half time against Forest in the fa cup I thought it was ridiculously harsh a) he wasn’t the worst player on the pitch even and b) was just going to knock his confidence.

But fuck me this season, he’s just been so terrible….the fact that he looked off the pace even against Oxford United is saying something.

I also notice that he went from being a regular starter under Patrick Vieira to a benchwarmer under Woy, and considering as much as I like PV he wasn’t getting the results and Woy was that speaks for itself.

So yeah agree, think we’ve given him time to prove himself and he’s not a youngster anymore he’s 23/24…he’s just useless

[HCZ_Reborn]

Late last night Ornstein revealed that we’d reached “total agreement” over Rice with the Ammers.

So the signing announcement is likely imminent (well within next few days anyway)

[HCZ_Reborn]

City are claiming that the price and the payment structure for Rice was set too high

Just wanted to reiterate that for those who have been recently sheepish, despite bemoaning Arsenal for low balling and lacking ambition with the structure of payments we offer.

Now do I think paying this much is worth it? Absolutely not…I’d have walked away just like we did with Baldrick. But I think it puts to bed the claim that Arsenal have too much of a small club mentality to get these big deals done.

In fact I’d actually say we’ve shown the Chelsea mentality, which in my mind is far worse…but the people stating the opposite. You were very wrong about this, it’s not your debut at being wrong so there’s no reason to feel too downhearted

[Marc Overmars]

Massive signing really, probably the most significant since Ozil or maybe Alexis.

Times have definitely changed since the days of signing no outfield players in a summer window and even profiting from transfer windows most of the time.

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12913980/mason-mount-manchester-united-sign-england-international-from-chelsea-for-initial-55m-on-five-year-deal


I couldn’t be more excited says man with most dour facial expression

[GP]

No doubt we've overpaid for Rice and probably Havertz too but fair play, we've gone out and got the players the manager wanted. Timber too.

I've a feeling we might see one more in once the sales are sorted.

[Marc Overmars]

Tchouameni talk doing the rounds which would be awesome.

Partey and a few others would need to be moved on first though.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Fee agreed for Jurrien Timber


Also there appears to be a devil worshipper skulking about (apparently the dark lord is in to all variety of cue sports). Can someone kindly come and remove him, and remind him that most people grow out of summoning demons.

[Letters]

Walking a Timber Wonderland :unsure:

Our new spammer has been booted out.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Walking a Timber Wonderland :unsure:

Our new spammer has been booted out.

I will remember him as a Cunt who loved his cue sports

I had to look up Russian Pyramid, sounded debauched

[Mac76]

Walking a Timber Wonderland :unsure:

Our new spammer has been booted out.

can you boot out 'FootyJohn' while you're at it he's obvs a spammer too

[GP]

And GP can go too. All of his accounts.

[Marc Overmars]

Xhaka to Leverkusen confirmed. :wave:
Nelson and more importantly Saliba have signed new deals.

No selling off key players, our best players all on long term deals, new signings done early…this is all rather nice isn’t it?

[HCZ_Reborn]

Xhaka to Leverkusen confirmed. :wave:
Nelson and more importantly Saliba have signed new deals.

No selling off key players, our best players all on long term deals, new signings done early…this is all rather nice isn’t it?


Take that disgraceful attitude elsewhere

[dostoy]

Arda Guler has gone to Madrid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66125179

[HCZ_Reborn]

Arda Guler has gone to Madrid.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66125179


2023 version of Odegaard (though Odegaard was 16 when Real bought him)

Will be loaned out and eventually sold (maybe we can buy him in his early-mid twenties and make him our captain :haha:)

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.arsenal.com/news/granit-xhaka-leaves-the-club


:yippee::yippee::yippee::yippee:

[Globalgunner]

Last remnant of Wenger dross
left about 5 years too late

[HCZ_Reborn]

Last remnant of Wenger dross
left about 5 years too late

No afraid not, Holding is still here.

[Mac76]

My thoughts on Xhaka's departure...

:dance: :patrice: :lol: :yippee: :scarf: :d :dancingman: :wave: :clap:

[mandela8]

21 million fuckin pounds for Granite Xhaka???????


Fuck Wenger...get a fuckin statue of Edu up, right fuckin noo.

[HCZ_Reborn]

21 million fuckin pounds for Granite Xhaka???????


Fuck Wenger...get a fuckin statue of Edu up, right fuckin noo.


In fairness that has to be seen in the context of a market where we’ve paid 105million for a player who wouldn’t actually be worth what we’ve sold Granit Xhaka for, if prices were realistic.

That said I’m not complaining, it’s a decent price we’ve got for him

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/kylian-mbappe-real-madrid-psg-transfer-news-b2371195.html

Still dreaming there is a chance on this :pray:

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/kylian-mbappe-real-madrid-psg-transfer-news-b2371195.html

Still dreaming there is a chance on this :pray:


No harm in dreaming. That would be the transfer coup of the century whatever the cost

I think in fairness we have got to a place where this transfer has elevated from risible to unlikely. I think it will be hard for any club to pull this off…and we will almost certainly have Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich to contend with.

Unlikely is not impossible though, and he’d only be 25.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

City are claiming that the price and the payment structure for Rice was set too high

Just wanted to reiterate that for those who have been recently sheepish, despite bemoaning Arsenal for low balling and lacking ambition with the structure of payments we offer.

Now do I think paying this much is worth it? Absolutely not…I’d have walked away just like we did with Baldrick. But I think it puts to bed the claim that Arsenal have too much of a small club mentality to get these big deals done.

In fact I’d actually say we’ve shown the Chelsea mentality, which in my mind is far worse…but the people stating the opposite. You were very wrong about this, it’s not your debut at being wrong so there’s no reason to feel too downhearted

:lol: was this meant for me Precious ??

[HCZ_Reborn]

:lol: was this meant for me Precious ??

https://news.stthomas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/gollum-for-lumen.jpg

[HCZ_Reborn]

:lol: was this meant for me Precious ??

Not you specifically. But you were one of the people I was referring to

I voted Remain, but the remain lot are so shrill that it makes me defend Brexit

You and the other one (Mac76), are my Arteta equivalent of that

[dostoy]

PSG are in the shit with Mbappe. They only extended his contract for 2 years last summer, so surely they need him to sign a new deal every year. I can't believe any club will sign him this summer so what will happen when he is still at PSG in September ?

[Marc Overmars]

Pretty sure only Real Madrid will push the boat out to try and sign him.

He’s well out of reach for the majority of clubs. His wages alone are absolutely obscene.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Pretty sure only Real Madrid will push the boat out to try and sign him.

He’s well out of reach for the majority of clubs. His wages alone are absolutely obscene.


I’m not sure it’s even within their gift. Jude Bellingham I think will see them have to sell a lot of players

That said he’s another player where money would be no object to bring him in, absolute top quality

[Niall_Quinn]

Partey to Utd needs to be done before saner minds at Utd intervene.

[Mac76]

Lools unlikely, though I'd have no objection, he seems crocked to me, be funny to see him in the Utd treatment room

[HCZ_Reborn]

Lools unlikely, though I'd have no objection, he seems crocked to me, be funny to see him in the Utd treatment room

As long as we don’t mince about whilst trying to source an adequate replacement they can by all means add him to their already seismic wage bill

[Niall_Quinn]

As long as we don’t mince about whilst trying to source an adequate replacement they can by all means add him to their already seismic wage bill

Surely Rice is the replacement?

[Niall_Quinn]

Haven't seen enough games to figure out the starting line-up next season. Xhaka is a big loss in terms of energy and leadership. Can Rice compensate for that. Don't know enough about the guy. But £100mill surely can't be spunked on a whim?

Odegard isn't great but he's good enough.

Who else? Honestly, a couple of years ago I could reel off every player and know exactly how they would perform. Now it's a bit of a mystery. What will the midfield be, assuming we don't want to sabotage it with Partey?

Rice, Odegard, and that chav?

I have a feeling he might convert the chav to a striker.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Surely Rice is the replacement?

Nah…we were already short on numbers (and quality) in midfield. Can’t sell both the Albanian halfwit and Partey sign one midfielder and shoe horn Donkey Boy into the Xhaka role.

Well obviously we can, but I don’t think we will

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Clearly some of you guys are only interested in rebuilding this team till kingdom come!!

IMO we definitely can't afford to lose Partey now if the idea is to beat Man City this season and stay above the other pretenders. To think some are even happy to sell him to a direct rival, come on guys!

An hour ago I stumbled upon this interview Edu gave a while back after his return, reminiscing on the good old days....a good weekend read.

One of the takeways from it was that despite the fact that he, Gilberto, Parlour and Vieira were all fighting for really only 2 spaces in the starting lineup, they were all great friends. However this did not inhibit the crazy competition among them which he feels only encouraged them to bring their A game given any opportunity.

The 2nd takeaway was AW agreed that one of the big mistakes he made was letting both Vieira and Edu leave at the same time (probably influenced by the untested shiny new toy he had unearthed, but thats another debate).

So can we stop with the foolishness by repeating the past over and over again. No need to knock it all down and rebuild when we can reinforce a pretty good foundation and keep on from there.

https://theathletic.com/2978675/2021/11/26/exclusive-edu-on-his-arsenal-playing-career-from-tears-in-jail-to-the-crazy-to-win-attitude-of-invincibles/?amp=1


Of course, the arrival of Gilberto meant increased competition for places. Edu found himself battling for game time with some of his closest friends within the squad. “That’s what I want to see from players,” he says, the technical director within him flickering. “It wasn’t just Gilberto and Patrick — I had a great relationship with Ray Parlour as well. But when you go to training, you compete. It was the four of us fighting for the same positions.”

Edu believes that was a defining characteristic of the team that would eventually become Invincible: a close bond and unbreakable spirit, combined with a ruthless competitive edge. “The mentality of that team was something else,” says Edu. “When you’re talking about Sol Campbell, Vieira, Henry, Pires, Ljungberg, Dennis Bergkamp, Jens Lehmann, Lauren… man, all the guys were crazy to win. No one was nice. You went into games with the veins in your neck throbbing.”

[Mac76]

It's not rocket science, if Arteta is sticking with the same system (and when doesn't he) it's obvious Rice will play DM and Havertz will play left 8, hence they're happy to lose Xhaka and Partey as they've upgraded in both positions

Given how unreliable Partey is and how well Jorginho did, they're probably happy to let Partey go

Apparently the club wanted to keep Xhaka as a utility player to have on the bench, but he wants to go to a club where he's still a regular starter, which presumably Leverlusen has promised he will be

[Globalgunner]

It's not rocket science, if Arteta is sticking with the same system (and when doesn't he) it's obvious Rice will play DM and Havertz will play left 8, hence they're happy to lose Xhaka and Partey as they've upgraded in both positions

Given how unreliable Partey is and how well Jorginho did, they're probably happy to let Partey go

Apparently the club wanted to keep Xhaka as a utility player to have on the bench, but he wants to go to a club where he's still a regular starter, which presumably Leverlusen has promised he will be

Leverkusen have become my favourite German club over Dortmund now. Simply because they took that klutz off our hands. Ill be following their treading water with Xhaka as a midfield mainstay

[HCZ_Reborn]

It's not rocket science, if Arteta is sticking with the same system (and when doesn't he) it's obvious Rice will play DM and Havertz will play left 8, hence they're happy to lose Xhaka and Partey as they've upgraded in both positions

Given how unreliable Partey is and how well Jorginho did, they're probably happy to let Partey go

Apparently the club wanted to keep Xhaka as a utility player to have on the bench, but he wants to go to a club where he's still a regular starter, which presumably Leverlusen has promised he will be


Everything I’m seeing is that we don’t intend to sell Partey unless we a) get the right money for him, which would necessitate a move to Saudi Arabia because the Italian clubs have no money and b) that we bring in a replacement. As bad as Arteta is at rotating, I think even he can’t avoid the fact that if we use Rice in the no6 role (which I think we all agree we will) we need a rotation option…now I suspect keeping Partey is not the first option because he won’t want to be understudy to Rice and Jorginho will more likely fill the option of being someone to come off the bench for 10-15 minutes to slow the game down. So if he goes it will be with a view to bringing in Labia or even Tchouameni.

The no8 role, well if Havertz as we expect is played there it will be Vieira, Smith Rowe and even Trossard that would provide cover. Personally I don’t like the idea of putting an attack minded midfielder in that role unless we are playing mid table sides at home…Partey was often left doing too much by Xhaka and Zinchenko.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Leverkusen have become my favourite German club over Dortmund now. Simply because they took that klutz off our hands. Ill be following their treading water with Xhaka as a midfield mainstay

https://media.gettyimages.com/id/541761757/photo/sportler-trainer-fussball-d-portr%C3%A4t-zieht-an-einer-zigarette.jpg?s=612x612&w=gi&k=20&c=Uskoz3rJ_ASYaGIuqBYx4JhYRaEdHK8UZzufH71FfHE=

[Mac76]

Xhaka and Zin are very good at putting their colleagues into trouble, we've ditched one and we should ditch the other - Xhaka had two problems, one was he wasn't a DM and two, neither Emery or Arteta were prepared to see the mistakes (because he was a teacher's pet, in case I haven't mentioned it)

We're now in the same place with Zin, with the added annoyance that a lot of fans think Zin is actually good just because he runs around a lot

[HCZ_Reborn]

Because he was a teacher's pet, in case I haven't mentioned it

Ever considered going on GB News, filling Neil Oliver’s slot…he’s also very good at making assertions for things he has no evidence for.

Of course it’s all academic, he’s gone now.

Also don’t get whiny for me being critical of you holding this view…this is exactly the engagement you were looking for, I was kind enough to oblige

[Mac76]

Ever considered going on GB News, filling Neil Oliver’s slot…he’s also very good at making assertions for things he has no evidence for.

Of course it’s all academic, he’s gone now.

Also don’t get whiny for me being critical of you holding this view…this is exactly the engagement you were looking for, I was kind enough to oblige

Don't be so touchy,

Anyway it's my opinion and I can put it here, it's not rude or offensive, just an observation of watching a player over six seasons and how he's interacted with managers and vice versa - it's pretty clear to me and I know plenty of others who feel the same

[HCZ_Reborn]

Don't be so touchy,

Anyway it's my opinion and I can put it here, it's not rude or offensive, just an observation of watching a player over six seasons and how he's interacted with managers and vice versa - it's pretty clear to me and I know plenty of others who feel the same


Again you fail to understand how this works

I’m not the one trying to tread on your right to say what you like.

If you’re feeling self conscious because I’m reminding you that you’re making an evidence free assertion that’s on you, I’m not responsible for how you feel.

You’re the one telling me, “you shouldn’t be criticising me for saying what I think”. What kind of sick injunction is that?

[Mac76]

I'm questioning your assertion that there's no evidence, by pointing to the observations I and others have made from the manager and player's own respective bahaviour

It's interesting that you often use the All or Nothing documentary to talk about Arteta's mentality yet you won't allow others to use similar evidence gained through observations of the manager and player during games, in interviews, training ground videos etc

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm questioning your assertion that there's no evidence, by pointing to the observations I and others have made from the manager and player's own respective bahaviour

It's interesting that you often use the All or Nothing documentary to talk about Arteta's mentality yet you won't allow others to use similar evidence gained through observations of the manager and player during games, in interviews, training ground videos etc


You keep saying won’t allow

How am I stopping you? If you can’t stand up to your opinion being scrutinised or ridiculed then that’s on you


The evidence you’ve offered is other people feel the same as you…well a majority of American Christians (the largest plurality of believers in the US) believe in Angels…doesn’t make it so.

My analysis of Arteta is based on his behaviour and body language and that was absolutely panned and ridiculed by others…and I didn’t get my panties in a bunch that other people thought I was full of shit

If you are telling me you made similar observations of Xhaka being a teachers pet from that, then I’d heavily, heavily suggest that you went into there looking for anything that would allow you to come to that conclusion cos I sure as fuck didn’t see anything that suggested obsequiousness or brown nosing Arteta.

[Niall_Quinn]

The simple reality is the two games against City will decide if we compete with them in a title race or lose by a margin. Players like Partey are hopelessly out of their depth against such opposition. Maybe keep him to shore up the numbers against lesser opposition, but he's on a huge wage so why bother? Get rid. If we can't get at least a point off City next term (more likely two points) then that's the title gone already. Unless City implodes, which they won't. Those battles will be won and lost in the midfield and in the moments up top where a quality striker matters. I'm assuming this is why £100mill was shelled out for Rice. Why would we spend that and then entertain the notion of putting Partey back on the pitch?

If we aren't going for the title and are simply consolidating second place then Partey could still have a role I guess, albeit a wildly overpriced one.

[Mac76]

You keep saying won’t allow

How am I stopping you? If you can’t stand up to your opinion being scrutinised or ridiculed then that’s on you


The evidence you’ve offered is other people feel the same as you…well a majority of American Christians (the largest plurality of believers in the US) believe in Angels…doesn’t make it so.

My analysis of Arteta is based on his behaviour and body language and that was absolutely panned and ridiculed by others…and I didn’t get my panties in a bunch that other people thought I was full of shit

If you are telling me you made similar observations of Xhaka being a teachers pet from that, then I’d heavily, heavily suggest that you went into there looking for anything that would allow you to come to that conclusion cos I sure as fuck didn’t see anything that suggested obsequiousness or brown nosing Arteta.

Can you not even comprehend the mutual exlusiveness of your different positions? You're convinced Arteta is a certain type of person based on watching him on TV yet you dismiss my observations of him and Xhaka, based not just on TV but actually during live games which I attend and you don't

Seriously at least try to.be convincing...

[Niall_Quinn]

What is all this about? Xhaka has left the club and his leaving won't cause any adverse effect provided he is adequately replaced. That's all there is surely? The whole teacher's pet idea went out the window as Xhaka left through the door. When you only have one player with balls then sure, you have to play him. Calling him out for putting his teammates in jeopardy on the pitch is like saying he fit right in. Pointless argument that has now been thoroughly debunked.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Can you not even comprehend the mutual exlusiveness of your different positions? You're convinced Arteta is a certain type of person based on watching him on TV yet you dismiss my observations of him and Xhaka, based not just on TV but actually during live games which I attend and you don't

Seriously at least try to.be convincing...


What I’m saying is what I say about Arteta should be obvious to anyone with even a basic understanding of human behaviour. And you can’t even get that right, you’ve claimed that Arteta is someone who lacks confidence…quite the opposite. Whilst he lacks the ability to interact and form ordinary human relationships (and the ones he forms are obviously insincere), he is incredibly sure of himself to the point of hubris….he absolutely doesn’t need reassurance from a brown noser.

I’m inclined to say you have seen nothing in the matches you’ve been to that have led you to that conclusion, whilst I’ve been to fewer than yourself I’ve certainly not seen any such thing.

And by that I don’t mean you’ve misinterpreted what you’ve seen, I mean you haven’t seen it. You are making the fundamental mistake of believing because you think a player is shit there can only be one possible explanation for why three different coaches would play him. I think he was shit too, I think they were mistaken….but I can see the validity to aspects of his game…some of his long range passing and the way he contributes to attacking build up (not for me anywhere enough to overlook his deficiencies) that they chose to play him for that reason.

But you’re doubling down on your belief by lying about what you’ve seen. And you will get all defensive about this “don’t fucking tell me what I have or haven’t seen”. And it will be all be very convincing, but it will be a performance because you know you’re lying. You don’t suffer from hallucinations so you haven’t seen Granit Xhaka being a teacher’s pet or anything that would lead you to the conclusion that he might be anymore than you’ve seen Gunnersaurus blasting away at people in the stands with a 12 guage pump action shotgun. You’ve included this nugget, because you don’t want to let your assertion go and you can’t stand it being ridiculed by me…because you think I’m a massive hypocrite in doing so

All this comes down to ultimately is you saying “if you say something it’s reasonable, when I say it it’s not” and again this is more about you getting upset because you don’t like being ridiculed…tough titty.

It’s perfectly ok for me to assert what I like about Arteta if I think it’s valid, and demean and ridicule others if I think what they say isn’t.


If you think what I say lacks validity, ridicule it…what do I care?. Just don’t try and use your getting emotional over me ridiculing you, to police my responses to you….it won’t work.

[Mac76]

I can assure you I don't feel remotely ridiculed, I'm just bemused at how worked up someone can get when someone else cares to make an assertion based on exactly the same kind of evidence used by you - and yet simply because you don't agree you have to go on a crusade about it


Everythig I've written about your attitiude has been in response to things you've said about mine - in other words, you started it :lol:

[HCZ_Reborn]

I can assure you I don't feel remotely ridiculed, I'm just bemused at how worked up someone can get when someone else cares to make an essertion based on exactly the same kind of evidence and yet simply because you don't agree you have to go on a crusade about it


Everythig I've written about your attitiude has been in response to things you've said about mine - in other words, you started it :lol:


The reason these arguments continue is because you keep getting precious about me ridiculing you.

“Why is it ok for you to make assertions and me not?” If you weren’t getting worked up, why would you give a shit?

Plus I’ve explained the material difference, mine is a reading of body language and behaviour that anyone can make and yours is lying because it’s easier to do that than admit that you can’t see how someone would disagree with you about a player you think is shit, therefore you construct a fictitious narrative with the only basis in reality being that Arteta has past form for falling out with difficult players (which actually doesn’t necessitate favouring obsequious ones)

Beyond that, I can’t really do anymore to enlighten your bemusement. But as I’ve said to you, I’ve said to many other people and I suspect will say to many others…I don’t take responsibility for your inability to comprehend.

Who cares who started it?….it’s not particularly serious. Whilst I’m saying what I think, I’m not doing it with any animus.

[mandela8]

:haha:

Even if arsenal sign all the players they're expected to, Partey remains the best player at the club. It's an observable fact, ffs. Only Odegaard is on a similar level.

Some of you are unbelievably fuckin stupid, man. Actually hurts to read some of your drivel.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Actually hurts to read some of your drivel.


Finally getting a taste of what the rest of us feel when we read your nonsense

[dostoy]

I'm still fascinated about what will happen with Kane.

There are THREE possible outcomes this summer :

Stays AND signs a new contract.

Stays but does not sign a new contract and leaves for free next summer.

Leaves this summer.

Any one of the above could happen. He is stupid we all know that, but I doubt he is stupid enough to sign a new contract, certainly not yet, if ever.

Does he really want to go abroad ?

Does he really want to go to Man Utd ? Can they afford him ?

Does he really want to be reunited with Poch at Chelsea ? I doubt it.

I cannot see how Levy can allow him to leave for free, which surely means he will have to be sold.

Levy has made a huge error letting it get to this stage. Did he really think Kane would sign a new deal a year ago ?

I hope he stays but does not sign a new contract so in 12 months time they will be in the shit.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

:haha:

Even if arsenal sign all the players they're expected to, Partey remains the best player at the club. It's an observable fact, ffs. Only Odegaard is on a similar level.

Some of you are unbelievably fuckin stupid, man. Actually hurts to read some of your drivel.

TBH it feels like the whole world is going crazy with all the transfer speculation I am seeing.

Watching Partey marauding when on form feels like a gift, so easy on the eyes. I get the Odegaard comparison.

Sad to see the consensus on here seems to be "get rid and start from scratch". Like I said earlier, it really feels like some of us don't want to win anything next season and are ready to pushout the familiar excuses. Just my 2 cents on this.

[HCZ_Reborn]

TBH it feels like the whole world is going crazy with all the transfer speculation I am seeing.

Watching Partey marauding when on form feels like a gift, so easy on the eyes. I get the Odegaard comparison.

Sad to see the consensus on here seems to be "get rid and start from scratch". Like I said earlier, it really feels like some of us don't want to win anything next season and are ready to pushout the familiar excuses. Just my 2 cents on this.


If he stays fine, no issue

But as long as we sign a decent replacement I’m not going to lose any sleep if he goes.

Comparisons to Vieira are silly. It wouldn’t take much to get an upgrade on Partey who at 30 won’t get any better and quite possibly isn’t as essential to the team as you assume.

We have at the moment a squad that is worth quite considerably in excess of what we paid for them.

I’m going to be nice, despite your usual tendency to “if you don’t agree with me on this you lack ambition” shtick

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

If he stays fine, no issue

But as long as we sign a decent replacement I’m not going to lose any sleep if he goes.

Comparisons to Vieira are silly. It wouldn’t take much to get an upgrade on Partey who at 30 won’t get any better and quite possibly isn’t as essential to the team as you assume.

We have at the moment a squad that is worth quite considerably in excess of what we paid for them.

I’m going to be nice, despite your usual tendency to “if you don’t agree with me on this you lack ambition” shtick

As usual you do what you do best, conjure up and twist an argument no one was interested in making in the first place.

To think you are the one preaching about comprehension :lol: yet you keep up with the same tired trick.

Anyway it seems my opinion on this unnecessary sale is swimming against the tide and I'm actually looking for someone to come up with something convincing. The latter part where you mentioned age being key is not good enough for me. Seems more like the AW mentality of forever planning for a glorious future that never seems to arrive. My 2 cents to the only sensible part of your post.

[HCZ_Reborn]

As usual you do what you do best, conjure up and twist an argument no one was interested in making in the first place.

To think you are the one preaching about comprehension :lol: yet you keep up with the same tired trick.

Anyway it seems my opinion on this unnecessary sale is swimming against the tide and I'm actually looking for someone to come up with something convincing. The latter part where you mentioned age being key is not good enough for me. Seems more like the AW mentality of forever planning for a glorious future that never seems to arrive. My 2 cents to the only sensible part of your post.


Ok so you definitely didn’t reference Vieira and Edu the other day….and say that Wenger said his biggest mistake was letting them leave at the same time? And by doing so you definitely weren’t comparing that to the prospect of us losing both Xhaka and Partey

Are you having trouble remembering your own posts….that might be an early sign of dementia?

Partey’s age is relevant because he’s never going to get better than he is now, and therefore it would be easier and in fact smarter to get someone of equivalent or greater ability who is younger

We aren’t despite your silly comparison getting rid of established winners.

[Mac76]

TBH it feels like the whole world is going crazy with all the transfer speculation I am seeing.

Watching Partey marauding when on form feels like a gift, so easy on the eyes. I get the Odegaard comparison.

Sad to see the consensus on here seems to be "get rid and start from scratch". Like I said earlier, it really feels like some of us don't want to win anything next season and are ready to pushout the familiar excuses. Just my 2 cents on this.

I for one am not saying he hasn't been a good player but while Partey can be very good, what worries me is his fitness and consistency, for such an important position we need people we can rely on

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Ok so you definitely didn’t reference Vieira and Edu the other day….

Ah, putting things in context, lets go on and see how it morphs..


and say that Wenger said his biggest mistake was letting them leave at the same time? And by doing so you definitely weren’t comparing that to the prospect of us losing both Xhaka and Partey

Good we're getting there. I didn't say it, the article said so. I didn't partake in the interview, Edu and a sports reporter did. They nor I said it was his biggest mistake, however they did refer to it as "one of".

So you see the difference, your trick is to always try to make everyone's argument seem outlandish just to keep up with the innate need to do what, win the internet? Be the only one able to express an unpopular view on this board? TBH i really dont care but honestly feel a little sad for you, but hey....I gave up on saving lost causes quite a while ago.


And by doing so you definitely weren’t comparing that to the prospect of us losing both Xhaka and Partey

BINGO!

So we've gone from a silly argument of Partey vs Vieira, to the impact losing 2 of your starters in a team and rebuilidng could have on your chances of winning.

This only confirms you do this shit on purpose, to repeatedly WUM. Well just don't act surprised that your allegiance and the reason you are on this board is repeatedly questioned.



Partey’s age is relevant because he’s never going to get better than he is now, and therefore it would be easier and in fact smarter to get someone of equivalent or greater ability who is younger.

Now the debate.

Do you feel Rice is a better player than Partey now? Is Caicedo a better player than Partey now? Is Lavia a better player than Partey now?

My opinion ( and that of most pundits for most of last season) is no. So would it kill us to use Partey till he breaks like successful clubs like Man U did with Keane, Chelsea did with Makalele and Kante , Liverpool did with Fabinho, Citeh with Fernandinho etc.

No one says we shouldn't bring in youth, but shipping off a player not based on his performance and only because he is 30 is pure crap to me and a mistake we have made several times before. Oh and seeing how you have now warmed to Trossard after your dislike for the same signing due to the same discredited factor, I would have thought you would have evolved a bit on this.

And yes IMO, we made that same mistake with "age" earlier with Vieira but that was not my initial argument.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Ah, putting things in context, lets go on and see how it morphs..



Good we're getting there. I didn't say it, the article said so. I didn't partake in the interview, Edu and a sports reporter did. They nor I said it was his biggest mistake, however they did refer to it as "one of".

So you see the difference, your trick is to always try to make everyone's argument seem outlandish just to keep up with the innate need to do what, win the internet? Be the only one able to express an unpopular view on this board? TBH i really dont care but honestly feel a little sad for you, but hey....I gave up on saving lost causes quite a while ago.



BINGO!

So we've gone from a silly argument of Partey vs Vieira, to the impact losing 2 of your starters in a team and rebuilidng could have on your chances of winning.

This only confirms you do this shit on purpose, to repeatedly WUM. Well just don't act surprised that your allegiance and the reason you are on this board is repeatedly questioned.



Now the debate.

Do you feel Rice is a better player than Partey now? Is Caicedo a better player than Partey now? Is Lavia a better player than Partey now?

My opinion ( and that of most pundits for most of last season) is no. So would it kill us to use Partey till he breaks like successful clubs like Man U did with Keane, Chelsea did with Makalele and Kante , Liverpool did with Fabinho, Citeh with Fernandinho etc.

No one says we shouldn't bring in youth, but shipping off a player not based on his performance and only because he is 30 is pure crap to me and a mistake we have made several times before. Oh and seeing how you have now warmed to Trossard after your dislike for the same signing due to the same discredited factor, I would have thought you would have evolved a bit on this.

And yes IMO, we made that same mistake with "age" earlier with Vieira but that was not my initial argument.


Honestly, this is your comeback ??? :haha:

That you were quoting someone else completely out of context, and in doing so you weren’t clearly inferring a parallel between selling Vieira and Edu with Partey and Xhaka?

I don’t know whether to be embarrassed for you, or be impressed at your level of sophistry.

As to your assertion that I twist things in order to have a reason to attack you. I think of the line from the Magnificent Seven “If God didn’t want me to sheer them, he wouldn’t have made them sheep”. I don’t need to twist anything, that’s the genius of you…you make it so easy for me.


So to actually look at the point you’re making, of course the wisdom of selling both of your key midfielders is completely determined by how good that midfield is and how much you’re planning to upgrade.

Is Rice an upgrade on Partey? No but given Partey for the moment is still here that’s academic

Would Caicedo be an upgrade on Partey? Yes and to be honest I don’t think it’s even close. Caicedo is a better player at 21 than Partey is at 30…both physically and technically.

Not sure how Trossard factors into this, frankly players I do approve of that we buy are more of an outlier.

Partey is a decent player, but I don’t think I can stress to you how little I think of the central midfield options we had last season that would cause me to devolve into arse spraying mayhem the way you did when selling Partey was mooted. Personally I think the smarter option would be to keep him one more year and then buy a Tchouameni next season (I think unfortunately with the money we’ve spaffed up the wall on Rice I don’t see that happening this summer)

I don’t think of little of Partey as NQ but you simply can’t draw parallels between two players we sold in one summer in the past without factoring in the clear differential in quality.

[HCZ_Reborn]

But to sum it up for you

Even if we sell Partey and signed No replacement, we play Rice in that position and play Kai Havertz in the Xhaka role. Just the absence of Xhaka alone would make it a better central midfield than we had last season.

And that’s the absolute worst case scenario. So maybe go out and invest in some adult nappies

[Mac76]

I think most people are assuming Rice will play in Partey's position and Havertz in Xhaka's

both are seen as upgrades (whether everyone agrees or not) and also as players with more of their careers ahead of them

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think most people are assuming Rice will play in Partey's position and Havertz in Xhaka's

both are seen as upgrades (whether everyone agrees or not) and also as players with more of their careers ahead of them


I prefer the way I said it

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Honestly, this is your comeback ??? .....

:) Just asking HCZ, do you watch Spartacus?

Whatever your answer is, that's how I imagine you see every debate you have here, some sort of bitter elaborate gladiatorial contest to the finish that seemingly justifies your existence.

Well, whatever floats your boat.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think most people are assuming Rice will play in Partey's position and Havertz in Xhaka's

both are seen as upgrades (whether everyone agrees or not) and also as players with more of their careers ahead of them

You really feel Rice is a better player than Partey?

Interesting.