Good Bye RVP!

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16-05-2012, 03:09 PM
Kano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

Anyone with half a brain knows that anything Man City 'achieve' is empty and meaningless. Luckily for them most players, and quite a lot of fans, have less than half a brain so they don't care.

I give RvP a bit more credit.

i think you are way off on this.
16-05-2012, 03:10 PM
Joker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

Anyone with half a brain knows that anything Man City 'achieve' is empty and meaningless. Luckily for them most players, and quite a lot of fans, have less than half a brain so they don't care.

I give RvP a bit more credit.

But at the end of his career it won't say "meaningless" next to the trophies he's won. And if he's given a choice between real trophies and the pre-season Emirates Cup triumph, I don't think he'll turn down the former in favour of the latter.
And it's a bit harsh to say anyone who doesn't agree that City's titles are "meaningless" is an idiot. It's a moral position that you've taken which is absolutely fine, but not everyone may feel the same way. We've seen teams spend a lot of money and not win trophies in the past (like Lazio and Real Madrid) so it's not as if spending money is the be all and end all.

But anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree because I've said the same thing before and people seem to get really annoyed by it for some reason.
16-05-2012, 03:11 PM
Letters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

i think you are way off on this.

If RvP goes to City then you're right, I am.
16-05-2012, 03:12 PM
Niall_Quinn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

Anyone with half a brain knows that anything Man City 'achieve' is empty and meaningless. Luckily for them most players, and quite a lot of fans, have less than half a brain so they don't care.

I give RvP a bit more credit.

Not only that but people with whole brains know it too!
16-05-2012, 03:13 PM
Kano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

If RvP goes to City then you're right, I am.

regardless of the money spent, if i was a player that had worked my arse off all season to win something, there is no way i would look at the achievement as shallow. vincent kompany couldn't have sounded more genuine with his thoughts about winning the title.
16-05-2012, 03:19 PM
Letters

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joker

But at the end of his career it won't say "meaningless" next to the trophies he's won. And if he's given a choice between real trophies and the pre-season Emirates Cup triumph, I don't think he'll turn down the former in favour of the latter.
And it's a bit harsh to say anyone who doesn't agree that City's titles are "meaningless" is an idiot. It's a moral position that you've taken which is absolutely fine, but not everyone may feel the same way. We've seen teams spend a lot of money and not win trophies in the past (like Lazio and Real Madrid) so it's not as if spending money is the be all and end all.

But anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree because I've said the same thing before and people seem to get really annoyed by it for some reason.

It's not a moral position. I'm not saying anything about whether what they're doing is 'right' or not. (It isn't, while we're here, but City didn't create the cirumstances in which this sort of thing can go on. There's a lot wrong with the modern game which isn't City's fault but they are exploiting it).

Which is more impressive, City spending a billion pounds and 'winning' the title or Newcastle finishing 5th or Swansea finishing in mid-table? Chelsea proved the point that money can buy success. City have shown you can do it with any club if you pump in enough money for long enough (And yes yes, you need a good manager but that costs money too. It all comes back to the money)
16-05-2012, 03:21 PM
Kano

you are talking from a fans perspective, which of course is the only angle we have - but a professional would view it completely differently i'd imagine.
16-05-2012, 03:21 PM
Olivier's xmas twist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joker

But at the end of his career it won't say "meaningless" next to the trophies he's won. And if he's given a choice between real trophies and the pre-season Emirates Cup triumph, I don't think he'll turn down the former in favour of the latter.
And it's a bit harsh to say anyone who doesn't agree that City's titles are "meaningless" is an idiot. It's a moral position that you've taken which is absolutely fine, but not everyone may feel the same way. We've seen teams spend a lot of money and not win trophies in the past (like Lazio and Real Madrid) so it's not as if spending money is the be all and end all.

But anyway, we'll have to agree to disagree because I've said the same thing before and people seem to get really annoyed by it for some reason.

Your right its not about City Spending the money being the problem, its the fact people want to spalff over it and seem to think they did it without the money and that it was all skill.

I don't know RVP's mind but i don't think he'd go to city he just not do that to us he just seems to loyal to do that. Where as Nasri never really had no loyalty to us anyway.
16-05-2012, 03:28 PM
Niall_Quinn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

you are talking from a fans perspective, which of course is the only angle we have - but a professional would view it completely differently i'd imagine.

Not so sure. Triumph in adversity has always carried more weight than pre-arranged triumph. It would have been fairly remarkable had city NOT won it. That fact they have is predictable enough. It's true you still have to build a team and get it to gel but when you can keep on dropping £250k a week pay packets until you get it right and at the same time weaken your opponents it all becomes a matter of time and expenditure. Same goes for Utd, the chavs and even us in comparison to a team like Swansea (although they probably pent more than us net). But the margins have been made so wide now you can't really call it competition any more, not in a sporting sense. Financially yes, they kicked everyone's arse bar Utds.
16-05-2012, 03:33 PM
Kano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Not so sure. Triumph in adversity has always carried more weight than pre-arranged triumph. It would have been fairly remarkable had city NOT won it. That fact they have is predictable enough. It's true you still have to build a team and get it to gel but when you can keep on dropping £250k a week pay packets until you get it right and at the same time weaken your opponents it all becomes a matter of time and expenditure. Same goes for Utd, the chavs and even us in comparison to a team like Swansea (although they probably pent more than us net). But the margins have been made so wide now you can't really call it competition any more, not in a sporting sense. Financially yes, they kicked everyone's arse bar Utds.

you are right, success through adversity does feel sweeter but you cannot diminish the hard leg work put in on a literal level as a player on the pitch. whether or not you have the best team around you, the running, tackling, blood, sweat and tears required to win in the prem are still required. if it was that easy, they would've gone over 100 points undefeated. having the money makes things easier, i agree but if i was a man city player that had to put in a 40+ game shift in a season, a trophy at the end of it would feel absolutely fantastic - and i can't see why i would want to compare it to winning it any other way in that moment as i would feel i completely earned it.
16-05-2012, 04:09 PM
She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

Anyone with half a brain knows that anything Man City 'achieve' is empty and meaningless. Luckily for them most players, and quite a lot of fans, have less than half a brain so they don't care.

I give RvP a bit more credit.

im not sure it discredits their achievements as much as you make out, at the end of the day, they've won trophies and we haven't, yet our balance sheet looks good and our values mostly in tact. which is more impressive? id say their achievement.

problem is we're at a time and generation where the only way of achieving success is through heavy spending; it's not just in football it's in every aspect of life. businesses that have come out of the recession are spending heavily to get them back to where they used to be before the recession, teenagers need to spent a shitload in tuition fees to get a decent career, i read today that the the EU are contemplating adding more to the pot to help countries like greece get out of the mess they find themselves in. utter madness !

long gone are the days when values and morals really mattered because everyone is looking for a quick fix; respect nowadays revolves around who earns the most and how quickly they made it, not what they done during the process or ethical issues. but at the same time, i dont think that should discredit what has been achieved and the success that has been created, especially in football; there's been a clear change and progression from the mid 1990's and it means clubs need to spend bucket loads to get to the top. put simply, if that's what they have to do, then that's what they have to do. we can't sit here and say 'only man utd, arsenal, liverpool can challenge for the title because they've earned it over the years' because that's a cop out. just like everything else, football has moved with the times, and whilst there was a massive hoo-ha at the beginning when clubs like chelsea came into the picture, the gradual desensitisation has bred an air of acceptance into society to a point where it isn't even questioned by the average fan. it's just 'the way it is init'. in 10 years time another takeover may happen and we might be sitting here saying 'cant believe theyve just spent £150m on a player, at least man city only spent £30m on a player!'

i do agree with you that its wrong but there is nothing we can do. if we speak up about it we are labelled as sadistic envious compatriots and backward thinking lunatics. just another thing that adds to the general shitness of modern football but as long as the status quo are making money, we are passive recipients of a global commodity my friend.
16-05-2012, 04:15 PM
Niall_Quinn

Quote:

Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

im not sure it discredits their achievements as much as you make out, at the end of the day, they've won trophies and we haven't, yet our balance sheet looks good and our values mostly in tact. which is more impressive? id say their achievement.

problem is we're at a time and generation where the only way of achieving success is through heavy spending; it's not just in football it's in every aspect of life. businesses that have come out of the recession are spending heavily to get them back to where they used to be before the recession, teenagers need to spent a shitload in tuition fees to get a decent career, i read today that the the EU are contemplating adding more to the pot to help countries like greece get out of the mess they find themselves in. utter madness !

long gone are the days when values and morals really mattered because everyone is looking for a quick fix; respect nowadays revolves around who earns the most and how quickly they made it, not what they done during the process or ethical issues. but at the same time, i dont think that should discredit what has been achieved and the success that has been created, especially in football; there's been a clear change and progression from the mid 1990's and it means clubs need to spend bucket loads to get to the top. put simply, if that's what they have to do, then that's what they have to do. we can't sit here and say 'only man utd, arsenal, liverpool can challenge for the title because they've earned it over the years' because that's a cop out. just like everything else, football has moved with the times, and whilst there was a massive hoo-ha at the beginning when clubs like chelsea came into the picture, the gradual desensitisation has bred an air of acceptance into society to a point where it isn't even questioned by the average fan. it's just 'the way it is init'. in 10 years time another takeover may happen and we might be sitting here saying 'cant believe theyve just spent £150m on a player, at least man city only spent £30m on a player!'

i do agree with you that its wrong but there is nothing we can do. if we speak up about it we are labelled as sadistic envious compatriots and backward thinking lunatics. just another thing that adds to the general shitness of modern football but as long as the status quo are making money, we are passive recipients of a global commodity my friend.

plus it's arabs init?

When we reach the point where there's nothing to compare this shit with and the whole thing has gone to hell, that's when their achievement can be recognised I think. But while we can still tell the difference between sport and commerce then it's still possible to say that in terms of a historic competition city's achievement compares poorly to most of what has gone before. Agree though, not long to go before this will all be very normal. When that happens you don't really have sport though.
16-05-2012, 04:19 PM
She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

plus it's arabs init?

When we reach the point where there's nothing to compare this shit with and the whole thing has gone to hell, that's when their achievement can be recognised I think. But while we can still tell the difference between sport and commerce then it's still possible to say that in terms of a historic competition city's achievement compares poorly to most of what has gone before. Agree though, not long to go before this will all be very normal. When that happens you don't really have sport though.

i agree. that fine line between sport and commerce is gradually crossing and my worry is that it already has, but we're just too blind to see it.
16-05-2012, 04:36 PM
Olivier's xmas twist

Quote:

Originally Posted by She Wore A Yellow Ribbon

im not sure it discredits their achievements as much as you make out, at the end of the day, they've won trophies and we haven't, yet our balance sheet looks good and our values mostly in tact. which is more impressive? id say their achievement.

problem is we're at a time and generation where the only way of achieving success is through heavy spending; it's not just in football it's in every aspect of life. businesses that have come out of the recession are spending heavily to get them back to where they used to be before the recession, teenagers need to spent a shitload in tuition fees to get a decent career, i read today that the the EU are contemplating adding more to the pot to help countries like greece get out of the mess they find themselves in. utter madness !

long gone are the days when values and morals really mattered because everyone is looking for a quick fix; respect nowadays revolves around who earns the most and how quickly they made it, not what they done during the process or ethical issues. but at the same time, i dont think that should discredit what has been achieved and the success that has been created, especially in football; there's been a clear change and progression from the mid 1990's and it means clubs need to spend bucket loads to get to the top. put simply, if that's what they have to do, then that's what they have to do. we can't sit here and say 'only man utd, arsenal, liverpool can challenge for the title because they've earned it over the years' because that's a cop out. just like everything else, football has moved with the times, and whilst there was a massive hoo-ha at the beginning when clubs like chelsea came into the picture, the gradual desensitisation has bred an air of acceptance into society to a point where it isn't even questioned by the average fan. it's just 'the way it is init'. in 10 years time another takeover may happen and we might be sitting here saying 'cant believe theyve just spent £150m on a player, at least man city only spent £30m on a player!'

i do agree with you that its wrong but there is nothing we can do. if we speak up about it we are labelled as sadistic envious compatriots and backward thinking lunatics. just another thing that adds to the general shitness of modern football but as long as the status quo are making money, we are passive recipients of a global commodity my friend.

Pretty much.

Should people just Accept the money and STFU or should they still believe in the Values of the game.
16-05-2012, 07:16 PM
Özim

There's a problem with this shallow success theory IMO, if we suddenly got taken over spend a shedload and won countless trophies I refuse to believe the fans wouldn't be absolutely thrilled (regardless of what some might say). Right now we're in the morally superior scenario of course and it's easy to say success is hollow because firstly we're not getting any and can point to the money spend as an excuse and secondly we're not in that situation.

I've said it before, find me a Chelsea and now Man City fan who isn't ecstatic about the success and the change of ownership, I doubt you'll find any because at the end of the day watching your team succeed by whatever means is a great feeling, ultimately everyone wants to see their club win.

I don't think our current situation is enjoyable, yes we're self sustaining and making a profit but what have we actually got to show for it except for a healthy balance sheet? We have precious few top players, no success in years, a board who are happy with this and feel 4th place is success and a manager who thinks likewise.

RVP has a choice, he can stay with us and finish off his career with in all likelyness just an FA Cup medal from 2005, alternatively he can move to a more ambitious club with ambitions to succeed, being triumphant in adversity is great, but let's be realistic what hope is there of us being successful as we are, I'd say there's very little hope.

It's pretty hypocritical to take a morally superior stance whilst being happy to fleece the fans for a bit of cash IMO.
16-05-2012, 07:17 PM
Cripps_orig

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsMe

There's a problem with this shallow success theory IMO, if we suddenly got taken over spend a shedload and won countless trophies I refuse to believe the fans wouldn't be absolutely thrilled (regardless of what some might say). Right now we're in the morally superior scenario of course and it's easy to say success is hollow because firstly we're not getting any and can point to the money spend as an excuse and secondly we're not in that situation.

I've said it before, find me a Chelsea and now Man City fan who isn't ecstatic about the success and the change of ownership, I doubt you'll find any because at the end of the day watching your team succeed by whatever means is a great feeling, ultimately everyone wants to see their club win.

I don't think our current situation is enjoyable, yes we're self sustaining and making a profit but what have we actually got to show for it except for a healthy balance sheet? We have precious few top players, no success in years, a board who are happy with this and feel 4th place is success and a manager who thinks likewise.

RVP has a choice, he can stay with us and finish off his career with in all likelyness just an FA Cup medal from 2005, alternatively he can move to a more ambitious club with ambitions to succeed, being triumphant in adversity is great, but let's be realistic what hope is there of us being successful as we are, I'd say there's very little hope.

Thats pretty optimistic of you
16-05-2012, 07:28 PM
Olivier's xmas twist

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsMe

There's a problem with this shallow success theory IMO, if we suddenly got taken over spend a shedload and won countless trophies I refuse to believe the fans wouldn't be absolutely thrilled (regardless of what some might say). Right now we're in the morally superior scenario of course and it's easy to say success is hollow because firstly we're not getting any and can point to the money spend as an excuse and secondly we're not in that situation.

I've said it before, find me a Chelsea and now Man City fan who isn't ecstatic about the success and the change of ownership, I doubt you'll find any because at the end of the day watching your team succeed by whatever means is a great feeling, ultimately everyone wants to see their club win.

I don't think our current situation is enjoyable, yes we're self sustaining and making a profit but what have we actually got to show for it except for a healthy balance sheet? We have precious few top players, no success in years, a board who are happy with this and feel 4th place is success and a manager who thinks likewise.

RVP has a choice, he can stay with us and finish off his career with in all likelyness just an FA Cup medal from 2005, alternatively he can move to a more ambitious club with ambitions to succeed, being triumphant in adversity is great, but let's be realistic what hope is there of us being successful as we are, I'd say there's very little hope.

It's pretty hypocritical to take a morally superior stance whilst being happy to fleece the fans for a bit of cash IMO.

Yes he has a choice does not mean he has to go to city though, he could go to most teams and win the league. Fabregas did not go to city. Yes he wanted to go home, but if really wanted too he could have chose City too.

And who is taking the morally superior stance?
16-05-2012, 07:28 PM
Olivier's xmas twist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ach

Thats pretty optimistic of you

As long as the players believe thats the most important thing.
16-05-2012, 07:31 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ach

Thats pretty optimistic of you

I try my best :lol:
16-05-2012, 07:33 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Yes he has a choice does not mean he has to go to city though, he could go to most teams and win the league. Fabregas did not go to city. Yes he wanted to go home, but if really wanted too he could have chose City too.

And who is taking the morally superior stance?

No of course not, but any club he goes to will be big spenders, the top clubs always are.

The club does for a start, with it's stance on rich owners and how we can't compete, there's a general morally superior attitude to our club though to be honest, maybe it's to deflect attention away from the fact we've not picked up any silverware in the last 7 years.
16-05-2012, 07:35 PM
Letters

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsMe

There's a problem with this shallow success theory IMO, if we suddenly got taken over spend a shedload and won countless trophies I refuse to believe the fans wouldn't be absolutely thrilled (regardless of what some might say).

Most fans are stupid so yes, you're right.
It's not how I would want Arsenal to achieve success.

Quote:

I've said it before, find me a Chelsea and now Man City fan who isn't ecstatic about the success

My best man is a Chelsea fan, he's wearied by it all too. He's in the minority of course, like I said most football fans are pretty stupid. Those who aren't can see the difference.
16-05-2012, 07:35 PM
Olivier's xmas twist

Quote:

I've said it before, find me a Chelsea and now Man City fan who isn't ecstatic about the success and the change of ownership, I doubt you'll find any because at the end of the day watching your team succeed by whatever means is a great feeling, ultimately everyone wants to see their club win.

Oh i know a few Chav fans not happy about the Billionaires coming into their club. I heard on the radio today a few Pool fans who hate all the Owners in their club undoing Shankly's hard work. There are fans out there who believe this lets not get it twisted. Some fans still believe in Values of football and the team.
16-05-2012, 07:36 PM
Shaqiri Is Boss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

My best man is a Chelsea fan

LDG is a Chelsea fan? :faint:
16-05-2012, 07:37 PM
Olivier's xmas twist

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsMe

No of course not, but any club he goes to will be big spenders, the top clubs always are.

The club does for a start, with it's stance on rich owners and how we can't compete, there's a general morally superior attitude to our club though to be honest, maybe it's to deflect attention away from the fact we've not picked up any silverware in the last 7 years.

I don't think its that. the board members still believe in values and don't seem to realise the game has changed and they need to put money into the team if it is to be successful.

The way we are run is not bad its only the people at the top neglect the team more then they should.
16-05-2012, 07:38 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

Most fans are stupid so yes, you're right.
It's not how I would want Arsenal to achieve success.

My best man is a Chelsea fan, he's wearied by it all too. He's in the minority of course, like I said most football fans are pretty stupid. Those who aren't can see the difference.

Are you saying he's not enjoyed seeing his club win the league and cups numerous times and seeing top players at his club?

Would he rather the club won nothing and sold all it's best players instead?
16-05-2012, 07:40 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

I don't think its that. the board members still believe in values and don't seem to realise the game has changed and they need to put money into the team if it is to be successful.

The way we are run is not bad its only the people at the top neglect the team more then they should.

They believe in these values and yet are happy to charge fans the highest ticket prices and tell them to effectively shut up when things aren't going as they should be?

I don't believe they have values, I believe they suffer from greed. You can't have it both ways really, there's no excuse for the attitude of the board frankly...if anything rich owners have given them an get out clause by allowing them to come out with the stuff about not being able to compete.
16-05-2012, 07:45 PM
Olivier's xmas twist

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsMe

They believe in these values and yet are happy to charge fans the highest ticket prices and tell them to effectively shut up when things aren't going as they should be?

I don't believe they have values, I believe they suffer from greed.

Arsenal is been run like it has always been its football thats moved on. These people have always been business men etc.

Do they suffer from greed a lil all businessmen do. Everything single owner in the prem does. Its just others are willing to invest more in the team then most.

Of course they have values. Do you think the Late Danny Fizman would have sold his shares to Stan if he did not think it would be beneficial to the club. Same with Lady Nina.
16-05-2012, 07:50 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Arsenal is been run like it has always been its football thats moved on. These people have always been business men etc.

Do they suffer from greed a lil all businessmen do. Everything single owner in the prem does. Its just others are willing to invest more in the team then most.

Of course they have values. Do you think the Late Danny Fizman would have sold his shares to Stan if he did not think it would be beneficial to the club. Same with Lady Nina.

I don't agree here, when we had Dein on board ambition came into it, it wasn't just about money, football also mattered.

As for Danny Fizman, I don't wish to speak ill of the dead but I'm not sure he was all heart either:

Quote:

In March 2007 Fiszman sold a block of 659 shares for over £3.9m to Stan Kroenke Sports Enterprises (KSE).[7] This was a significant sale as reducing his stake to less than 25% resulted in a loss of veto rights over any future changes to the company statutes. Speculation linked this with a move abroad where he would substantially reduce any Capital Gains Tax liability that would come with a sale of his stake in the club.[8] Fiszman stated his desire not sell any more of his shares for the foreseeable future,[9] after the sale of 5,000 ordinary shares to Kroenke takes the American's stake in Arsenal Holdings plc to 12,756 Shares (representing 20.5%). On 27 March 2009 Fiszman sold 5,000 ordinary shares of £1 each in Arsenal Holdings plc to KSE, UK, Inc, at a price of £8,500 per share.

Wikipedia

Now sure he chose to sell to Stan but maybe it's because he didn't want Usmanov involved and maybe because he thought his family would be better off with the cash rather than a stake in the club, who knows. He was in cahoots with PHW though, so it made sense to sell to Kroenke.
16-05-2012, 07:51 PM
Kano

dein sold his shares to the russian dude, so what's the difference?
16-05-2012, 07:54 PM
Özim

Well yes he did, but I suspect this was an unwise perhaps irrational show of defiance after being thrown off the board in pretty a deplorable way.

I wish he'd kept hold of those, perhaps he wishes he had to, but the way he was treated was disrepectful considering what he'd done and how important he was to us.
16-05-2012, 07:56 PM
Kano

or maybe he was just as 'heartless' as the rest of em? i see no reason to make excuses for that action whilst condemning other directors for doing the same - we know as little about dein as we do about fizman.
16-05-2012, 07:57 PM
Olivier's xmas twist

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

dein sold his shares to the russian dude, so what's the difference?

Infact it was Dein who bought Stan to the Club knowing what he was about.
16-05-2012, 07:59 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

or maybe he was just as 'heartless' as the rest of em? i see no reason to make excuses for that action whilst condemning other directors for doing the same - we know as little about dein as we do about fizman.

You have a point, however Dein was very vocal about his football ambitions, making us one of the biggest clubs and being as successful as anyone out there was his plan, he was also heavily involved in signing our best players.

IMO he seemed more of a fan than the rest of them who have again IMO been largely driven by the financial side. Dein wasn't a saint, far from it but he was good for the club and offered a great deal, I'm not entirely sure what those we have now have to offer.
16-05-2012, 08:00 PM
Özim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Infact it was Dein who bought Stan to the Club knowing what he was about.

I suspect that had Dein still been around we'd have seen some better players come in, he may well have been more persuasive with regards what's needed financially, unlike the current lot who seem happy to pocket whatever comes in.
16-05-2012, 08:02 PM
Syn

Quote:

Lethal Bizzle ‏@LethalBizzle

Man City want RVP - #LeaveItYeah

:bow:
16-05-2012, 08:04 PM
Xhaka Can’t

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letters

Most fans are stupid so yes, you're right.
It's not how I would want Arsenal to achieve success.

My best man is a Chelsea fan, he's wearied by it all too. He's in the minority of course, like I said most football fans are pretty stupid. Those who aren't can see the difference.

SB?
16-05-2012, 08:04 PM
Syn

Quote:

Mario Balotelli ‏@MarioBaloteLAD
Theo Walcott has text John Terry to let him know RVP's wife is home alone #RVPLive #JTStopsPlay

#JTStopsPlay?

Fucking love twitter.
16-05-2012, 08:05 PM
Kano

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie the Gooner

Infact it was Dein who bought Stan to the Club knowing what he was about.

well exactly - that was a big mistake on dein's part, which may have been done with the best of intentions for all we know but look where it has landed up. he had a duty to make sure he understood the motivations of stan fully before introducing him to the club but he didn't do that properly and to make matters worse he then jumped into bed with the russian. dein done a lot of great stuff for the club but his messy exit saw blame fall onto both sides.
16-05-2012, 08:15 PM
Olivier's xmas twist

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsMe

I suspect that had Dein still been around we'd have seen some better players come in, he may well have been more persuasive with regards what's needed financially, unlike the current lot who seem happy to pocket whatever comes in.

Maybe Dein did have the clubs best interests at heart and has had a lot of good ideas (well except the Wembley one lol)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Tuffnutz

well exactly - that was a big mistake on dein's part, which may have been done with the best of intentions for all we know but look where it has landed up. he had a duty to make sure he understood the motivations of stan fully before introducing him to the club but he didn't do that properly and to make matters worse he then jumped into bed with the russian. dein done a lot of great stuff for the club but his messy exit saw blame fall onto both sides.

Pretty Much all these people saw was Stan owned/Own's. a few sports teams so he must know what he is doing. More research should have been done and it was not.

Another thing is this Ownership Issues until one of Stan or the Russian cave in think could be messi for a long time.
16-05-2012, 08:17 PM
Letters

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsMe

Are you saying he's not enjoyed seeing his club win the league and cups numerous times and seeing top players at his club?

Would he rather the club won nothing and sold all it's best players instead?

He can see that all their 'achievements' are tainted by the way they've achieved them. As are City's.
He's a bit more discerning than the average football fan and he's not just a glory hunter.

City were a mid-table side. A billion pounds later and they're champions. Chelsea showed it could be done. City have shown you can do it with any club if you pump in enough money for long enough. They actually got a bit lucky this year in that Utd collapsed at the final hurdle but had Utd won it City would only have spend big again (they might do anyway) and win it next year instead. Utd would only have delayed City's 'achievement'.

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