Match Reaction vs Bayern Munich (home)

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Originally Posted by selassie

Wenger's recruitment over the past few years has been nothing short of a disgrace. He has bought badly, wasting millions on average players. I suspect if he was at any other club he would have been shown the door. The sad thing is many very good players have been available at prices well within our budget yet for one reason or another we have missed out on them.

Can anybody tell me why we went for Xhaka when Kante was available at a lower price? Yet again Kante is head and shoulders the best CM in the Prem yet we turn our nose up at him when he was offered to us so we can bring in Xhaka!!!

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Yeah I agree, our transfer policy has been awful, so many players who were better than we have we could have brought in, but in the end I guess they weren't projects as they were more established players which Wenger generally turns his nose up at.

I really don't rate this group of players at all, bar a handful we should have a massive clearout to be honest, once again we have a lot of deadwood and sub standard players you can't build a top team with, it lacks all kinds of ingredients you need to win the big trophies, leadership, fight, desire, passion all key ingredients which help you to beat top sides and sometimes upset the odds. The organisation is also poor, defensively we're shocking and have been for years and a good team is based on a good defence at the end of the day.

There's a lot to deal with if a new manager comes in, the club is definitely not in a good place for any new manager to come in, it's a very, very, big job IMO.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

:doh: Block Zim or just shut the fuck up! You repeat the same argument every time.

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As does he, but you only pick me up on it because of your little vendetta against me :lol:

Are you going to call me stupid next? That's pretty much your only line of argument.

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Originally Posted by Niall Quinn

Honestly, what does it matter?

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Does it add anything to objective and reasonable debate?
You've picked him up on the same sort of thing enough times and banned him from theads because of it :shrug:

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Originally Posted by selassie

:lol: I laugh but I reckon this is nail on head P'n'G, it's actually quite sad.

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With that sort of mentality coming from the boss, how are we to go about fixing an issue? It’s something that was touched on yesterday from IBK (aka Subs – GW Legend :bow: )thread. I have no idea how we change the culture of the this club. It’s not going to come from the odd player that plays for pride and it won’t come from the Board. The only feasible solution I can see is a change of manager.

Hargreaves was arguing with Rio last night that Wenger needed help the Board need to take the heat off him. I’ve seen a similar argument on Arseblog, from Moh on Arsenal Fan TV and on here at times. How can anyone help someone that is so entrenched in their own ways that they won’t accept help or a different approach? We don’t have a Board that aren’t receptive to new ideas from Wenger. I don’t think they’d turn him away if he accepted he needed to shake up his coaching staff or more money for better players. Also, we don’t have a Board that won’t impose ideas on Wenger because I guess they respect his work and hold him in high regards. I see what fans like Moh and Arseblog say about Wenger and how they revere and I suspect that’s the attitude that comes down from Board level. That’s why I can’t see them pulling the trigger unless things got so out of hand that their hand is forced. This is why we get the extreme posts and talk of us wanting to lose games or drop out of the Top 4 because fans can’t see no other way of the message getting through to the Board and shaking up the culture.

I get that people have reservations about the #WengerOut protests and would rather some focus on the Board, but Stan isn’t selling up any time soon unless attendance drops in a serious way. And it would take years for that to happen and we’d seriously damage the club in the process. It’s a mess. The only hope we have is a new manager that comes in and puts pressure on the Board to shake things up because it’s clear Wenger isn’t doing that at the moment. I was reading Arseblog today and I don’t get his position. Is he blaming the Board for not firing Wenger? Anyway…forgive the long winded rant.

Is it last night's match that is causing all this, or are you trying to all do your own unique tribute to International Women's day?

Either way it's not as entertaining as Underscore NQ's Mel Gibson impression last night

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Originally Posted by Niall Quinn

There is a risk here that we aren't getting things in perspective.

I suppose that's only natural when the club you've invested in pretty much almost your whole life has just achieved the highest ever aggregate defeat by any English club in the history of European football.

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Is that so? Another record! :trophy:
Tbh, I don't care about that. Last night's result was clearly skewed by the referee. I care about the bigger picture about us being competitive with the sides we should be competitive. In Europe there is no disgrace in losing to Bayern but we should be able to give them a game and domestically I don't think anyone is going to get close to Chelsea this year and fair play to them but, again, do what you can to put pressure on and be as competitive as you can. We shouldn't be scrabbling around desperately trying to finish top 4 and hopefully finishing above Spurs.

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Originally Posted by Letters

As does he, but you only pick me up on it because of your little vendetta against me :lol:

Are you going to call me stupid next? That's pretty much your only line of argument.

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Because you always start it. Every time. Without fail and it's that obvious. You don't usually get into personal insults on here but you often do it with Zim. Why?

Also, I have no vendetta against you. Why would I? On other threads and where I feel you're right, I'll say my piece and defend what you have to say. You seem to forget those moments. ;)

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

With that sort of mentality coming from the boss, how are we to go about fixing an issue? It’s something that was touched on yesterday from IBK (aka Subs – GW Legend :bow: )thread. I have no idea how we change the culture of the this club. It’s not going to come from the odd player that plays for pride and it won’t come from the Board. The only feasible solution I can see is a change of manager.

Hargreaves was arguing with Rio last night that Wenger needed help the Board need to take the heat off him. I’ve seen a similar argument on Arseblog, from Moh on Arsenal Fan TV and on here at times. How can anyone help someone that is so entrenched in their own ways that they won’t accept help or a different approach? We don’t have a Board that aren’t receptive to new ideas from Wenger. I don’t think they’d turn him away if he accepted he needed to shake up his coaching staff or more money for better players. Also, we don’t have a Board that won’t impose ideas on Wenger because I guess they respect his work and hold him in high regards. I see what fans like Moh and Arseblog say about Wenger and how they revere and I suspect that’s the attitude that comes down from Board level. That’s why I can’t see them pulling the trigger unless things got so out of hand that their hand is forced. This is why we get the extreme posts and talk of us wanting to lose games or drop out of the Top 4 because fans can’t see no other way of the message getting through to the Board and shaking up the culture.

I get that people have reservations about the #WengerOut protests and would rather some focus on the Board, but Stan isn’t selling up any time soon unless attendance drops in a serious way. And it would take years for that to happen and we’d seriously damage the club in the process. It’s a mess. The only hope we have is a new manager that comes in and puts pressure on the Board to shake things up because it’s clear Wenger isn’t doing that at the moment. I was reading Arseblog today and I don’t get his position. Is he blaming the Board for not firing Wenger? Anyway…forgive the long winded rant.

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Having listened to the Arsecast on monday, my understanding is that he does blame the Board for this yes. He believes that even if some fans reactions are distasteful they essentially have tacit approval from Ivan Gazidis as per his statement of 2011....and it's reprehensible that the board are forcing the fan's hands like this.
He also believes more focus should be put on the board, because whilst getting rid of Wenger is essential it's not the all encompassing magical remedy some might think it is. There is essentially no guarantee we won't be in this position again with a new man.

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Because you always start it. Every time. Without fail and it's that obvious. You don't usually get into personal insults on here but you often do it with Zim. Why?

Also, I have no vendetta against you. Why would I? On other threads and where I feel you're right, I'll say my piece and defend what you have to say. You seem to forget those moments. ;)

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Zim comes out with the most ridiculous statements and then when the chips are down pretends everything he has said is wholly reasonable and comes across with "see i told you so".

I detest the notion from the AKB faction that those who want Wenger out are revelling in this chaos, but in Zim's case and he would even admit it himself he's in his element.

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Originally Posted by Letters

As does he, but you only pick me up on it because of your little vendetta against me :lol:

Are you going to call me stupid next? That's pretty much your only line of argument.

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Stupid.

Last night's game was always going to be farcical one way or another because we blew it so badly in the first leg. The focus should still be on that game. Another hiding when we needed to show we have learned a few things from 20 years of CL competition. But we didn't and we haven't. That's down to Wenger. Not the board, not the players, not the fans. 20 years experience and he's still taking teams away from home and getting pasted. It's a terrible indictment. The only thing we have achieved from 20 years of competition at the top level is a bank full of cash - which is pure coincidence.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Does it add anything to objective and reasonable debate?
You've picked him up on the same sort of thing enough times and banned him from theads because of it :shrug:

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When it was clear he was on the wum.

Go for the man when on the wum go for the argument when not.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Is that so? Another record! :trophy:
Tbh, I don't care about that. Last night's result was clearly skewed by the referee. I care about the bigger picture about us being competitive with the sides we should be competitive. In Europe there is no disgrace in losing to Bayern but we should be able to give them a game and domestically I don't think anyone is going to get close to Chelsea this year and fair play to them but, again, do what you can to put pressure on and be as competitive as you can. We shouldn't be scrabbling around desperately trying to finish top 4 and hopefully finishing above Spurs.

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Other teams, including us have faced situations when they've been fucked over by a ref.

But none have capitulated in such a cowardly manner.

Ever.

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Originally Posted by Niall Quinn

Other teams, including us have faced situations when they've been fucked over by a ref.

But none have capitulated in such a cowardly manner.

Ever.

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In fairness this was the point i was making last night, 1) there was no evidence to go with the assertion of corruption and 2) it was totally irrelevant anyway

However both you and the other NQ rounded on me like i was Michel Platini

There was another element. The corruption in and surrounding the game is so ingrained in its governance and culture that there is far too big a chance that last nights referring 'mistakes' aren't mistakes at all.

That is entirely separate from the argument that collectively, we are a team of cowards.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

In fairness this was the point i was making last night, 1) there was no evidence to go with the assertion of corruption and 2) it was totally irrelevant anyway

However both you and the other NQ rounded on me like i was Michel Platini

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Did I? I'm sure you deserved it then. And can you prove you aren't Platini?

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Originally Posted by Delusions of Grandeur

Because you always start it. Every time.

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I'm replying to HIS messages so how is it me starting it?
As HCZ has noted too, he's posting with obvious glee today.
I find it galling that someone who claims to support Arsenal would be relishing our failings and the personal nature of his distain for Wenger is just bizarre.
Meh. Whatever.

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Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn

Did I? I'm sure you deserved it then. And can you prove you aren't Platini?

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Oui

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Zim comes out with the most ridiculous statements and then when the chips are down pretends everything he has said is wholly reasonable and comes across with "see i told you so".

I detest the notion from the AKB faction that those who want Wenger out are revelling in this chaos, but in Zim's case and he would even admit it himself he's in his element.

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In your opinion of course, maybe they aren't that ridiculous and I've not once come out and said I told you so to anyone, I guess that's just something you feel rather than reality, I've had the same opinion for many years about the situation.

I don't revel in chaos as you put it, I've just wanted Wenger out for years, for the exact reasons we're seeing today, yes I will be happy when he leaves because for me he's ruined football, there's literally nothing I enjoy about theclub anymore and I lay this firmly at his door, the fact he chooses to patronise and act like he's better than everyone else and knows better than Jesus himself also grates, there's such thing as humility but the man doesn't know the meaning of the word. I've said many times before if he was more humble and acknowledged his faults and those of his players it would make a big difference, instead he rams the fact he and then are wonderful down your throat every single week.

Not my fault you don't like it, that's how I feel, since he changed our style of football, football has slowly become more and more irrelevant to the point that it's hard to watch us now as it's so mundane, there's no passion, no drive, no entertainment, no variety....just a whole lot of boredom and frustration at what I see and what we do every single transfer window.

So excuse me if I appear upbeat that the man who has turned the club into something that is the polar opposite of what it should be might be nearing his end with us.

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Originally Posted by Letters

I'm replying to HIS messages so how is it me starting it?
As HCZ has noted too, he's posting with obvious glee today.
I find it galling that someone who claims to support Arsenal would be relishing our failings and the personal nature of his distain for Wenger is just bizarre.
Meh. Whatever.

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Do you? I find it galling that people like you have constantly been making excuses for Wengers failures and still see put him on some pedestal as if he's someone to look up to, his behaviour paints a different picture, one you point blank refuse to see.

It's not our failings I'm relishing at all, it's the fact we might actually see some change and someone different that brings back all the things that are good about football, unpredictability, excitement, change, variety and most importantly hope. I won't be sorry when Wenger leaves, to me he thinks he's gods gift to football and I frankly dislike the way he portrays himself as better than everyone else and points the finger at everyone but the players, the club and himself, even going as far as having the audacity of blaming the fans.....repeatedly, that's just unacceptable, he's done very well at the fans expense.

I don't like arrogance but if someone is hugely successful you can stomach it to a point as long as they don't ram it down your throat all the time, but when someone is so obviously a failure then I don't understand it.

I should make the point that i have no real issue with Zim, and i'm sure he is capable of thoughtful analysis but i don't in anyway take him seriously.

Which is not even discriminatory as i don't take any of you that seriously. You've done nothing to prove to me that you are anything but products of my mundane imagination and that i'm doing anything but typing to myself.

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Originally Posted by Özim

In your opinion of course, maybe they aren't that ridiculous and I've not once come out and said I told you so to anyone, I guess that's just something you feel rather than reality, I've had the same opinion for many years about the situation.

I don't revel in chaos as you put it, I've just wanted Wenger out for years, for the exact reasons we're seeing today, yes I will be happy when he leaves because for me he's ruined football, there's literally nothing I enjoy about theclub anymore and I lay this firmly at his door, the fact he chooses to patronise and act like he's better than everyone else and knows better than Jesus himself also grates, there's such thing as humility but the man doesn't know the meaning of the word. I've said many times before if he was more humble and acknowledged his faults and those of his players it would make a big difference, instead he rams the fact he and then are wonderful down your throat every single week.

Not my fault you don't like it, that's how I feel, since he changed our style of football, football has slowly become more and more irrelevant to the point that it's hard to watch us now as it's so mundane, there's no passion, no drive, no entertainment, no variety....just a whole lot of boredom and frustration at what I see and what we do every single transfer window.

So excuse me if I appear upbeat that the man who has turned the club into something that is the polar opposite of what it should be might be nearing his end with us.

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Off the top of my head you said you wished Wenger had never become manager, and you made a silly statement about Wenger celebrating one of our goals against Sutton like it was the winning goal in a champions league final.

Now you could totally sincerely believe that you wish the club had never appointed Wenger, but you can't expect that anyone will take anything you say seriously after that point.

I don't like that it's taking this chaotic situation to give us any hope of dislodging Wenger and i totally resent him for that, but as i say if you aren't enjoying this run of results you are certainly not giving off that impression.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

i'm sure he is capable of thoughtful analysis.

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Are you sure?
He hides it very well if so.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Off the top of my head you said you wished Wenger had never become manager, and you made a silly statement about Wenger celebrating one of our goals against Sutton like it was the winning goal in a champions league final.

Now you could totally sincerely believe that you wish the club had never appointed Wenger, but you can't expect that anyone will take anything you say seriously after that point.

I don't like that it's taking this chaotic situation to give us any hope of dislodging Wenger and i totally resent him for that, but as i say if you aren't enjoying this run of results you are certainly not giving off that impression.

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I think by saying that (not sure those were my exact words), I was really questioning this ascertion that he's the best thing that ever happened to this club and that this club would be nowhere without him.

Look at the club today and tell me what's good about it when compared to say 2004, do you like what it's become, is this Wenger's legacy? Wenger did some great things, there's no doubt about it, but the state of the club right now is terrible in almost all aspects except financially.

As for the Sutton thing, I found it cringeworthy to be honest, we were playing non league opposition, we should have smacked them 5-6 nil at least, I don't really see what there is to celebrate when you score against a bunch of part timers.

I haven't enjoyed watching us for years to be honest, it's no different now, but yes I'm looking forward to the possibility of something new and exciting, 20 years is far far too long for any manager to be in charge, we're a prime example of why you should never keep a manager too ong.

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Originally Posted by Özim

I think by saying that (not sure those were my exact words), I was really questioning this ascertion that he's the best thing that ever happened to this club and that this club would be nowhere without him.

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Who has asserted that?

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Originally Posted by Özim

As for the Sutton thing, I found it cringeworthy to be honest, we were playing non league opposition, we should have smacked them 5-6 nil at least, I don't really see what there is to celebrate when you score against a bunch of part timers.

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Did the fans simply nod at each other and shake hands?
It's a goal, people celebrated.
Neither the fans nor the manager nor the players celebrated wildly.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Who has asserted that?

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Lots of people (he even seem so to have what appears to be his own cult folllowing), seems to me that people think this club would be nothing without Wenger, wrong we were a big successful club (one of the most successful in England) before he arrived, he did move us forward no doubt about that but what's happened in the last 10 years is equally a backwards step IMO, in terms of being a top football club anyway.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Did the fans simply nod at each other and shake hands?
It's a goal, people celebrated.
Neither the fans nor the manager nor the players celebrated wildly.

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Fans are different, Wenger isn't a fan, not in the slightest that much is clear, he's so far separate from being a fan it's untrue, that's why he can't relate to them and blames them.

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Originally Posted by Özim

Fans are different, Wenger isn't a fan, not in the slightest that much is clear, he's so far separate from being a fan it's untrue, that's why he can't relate to them and blames them.

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Are fans different? Why? He didn't celebrate wildly and pretty much every football manager celebrates pretty much every goal to some degree or other. He hardly ran along the touchline and started crowd surfing.

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he's the best thing that ever happened to this club

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That is impossible to quantify but he's certainly one of the most important figures in our modern history.

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this club would be nowhere without him.

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Literally no-one has said that.

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Originally Posted by Özim

I think by saying that (not sure those were my exact words), I was really questioning this ascertion that he's the best thing that ever happened to this club and that this club would be nowhere without him.

Look at the club today and tell me what's good about it when compared to say 2004, do you like what it's become, is this Wenger's legacy? Wenger did some great things, there's no doubt about it, but the state of the club right now is terrible in almost all aspects except financially.

As for the Sutton thing, I found it cringeworthy to be honest, we were playing non league opposition, we should have smacked them 5-6 nil at least, I don't really see what there is to celebrate when you score against a bunch of part timers.

I haven't enjoyed watching us for years to be honest, it's no different now, but yes I'm looking forward to the possibility of something new and exciting, 20 years is far far too long for any manager to be in charge, we're a prime example of why you should never keep a manager too ong.

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When I'm not at work i will trawl through the archives and present to you that those were in fact exactly your words.

As for the Sutton thing, he hardly jumped from his seat, he smiled and gave a small fist pump....the same any manager would do in any circumstance.

Do you think anyone has enjoyed watching us more often than not the last few years, most of us for years have wanted Wenger to go...what we don't do is delight in it when we lose.....we all have known for some time he isn't capable of pushing forward but we want to be proved wrong....you seemingly don't.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

As for the Sutton thing, he hardly jumped from his seat, he smiled and gave a small fist pump....the same any manager would do in any circumstance.

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He actually stood up, smiled slightly, clapped 4 times and gave a very small fist pump for the first goal. Second goal he was already standing up, he clapped a few times, very small fist pump and that was that. Job done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdaByjtjoqk

Neither goal was celebrated like we'd "just won the Champions League" (which is how Zim described it).

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

Having listened to the Arsecast on monday, my understanding is that he does blame the Board for this yes. He believes that even if some fans reactions are distasteful they essentially have tacit approval from Ivan Gazidis as per his statement of 2011....and it's reprehensible that the board are forcing the fan's hands like this.
He also believes more focus should be put on the board, because whilst getting rid of Wenger is essential it's not the all encompassing magical remedy some might think it is. There is essentially no guarantee we won't be in this position again with a new man.

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You caught the Jame's (Gunnerblog) post and what IBK posted recently, right? I think the argument is misrepresented by Arseblog. A lot of people are just sick of seeing the same thing and want a change. We need confirmation that it is actually the Board holding us back and then we can take it from there if that's the case. At the moment, we have a manger that isn’t challenging them and that’s wrong. I doubt many think it will be a magical fix but it's a risk worth taking because we've gone around the block with this one long enough and exhausted all options except one.

Also, I don't think Gazidis is 100% behind Wenger. When Ivan said Wenger’s job depends on his ‘approval ratings’ with the fans, Ivan was taking a lot of heat for our failings. I don’t think Gazidis was speaking for the Board. I said years back when Gazidis announced that we had money to spend and spelt it out in plain terms, it put the spotlight firmly on Wenger. He gave an example of the type of player we could afford a long with the wages we could afford. Nothing coy or ambiguous said to leave the fans uncertain of what the new deals meant for the club. He’s a smart guy because he was always having to answer questions from fans or during the AGM of how much we had to spend and whether the figures PHW would come out with for the annual ‘war chest’ story included wages and transfers. So the £70m they were always talking about looked a lot less when you include wages with that figure. There was so much speculation when it came to our finances and Ivan killed the speculation. That’s why the focus has been on Wenger for the last 4 years.

Wenger created the rod for his own back. His argument was always that we didn’t have the money to compete. That argument has been blown out the water because not only has he had more money to spend, teams making a lot less than us have won league titles here and across Europe. The argument from most fans before was that the Board need to release more funds to the manager. That’s happened. Now it seems like the goal post has shifted slightly to now people wanting the Board to take the reins from Wenger or have him fired. For those that revere Wenger and say the Board are at fault for not pulling the trigger, it just seems a little hypocritical because most people with that view have only just come to the conclusion that Wenger needs to go recently. Maybe it’s taken longer for Board to see that Wenger’s time has come and especially if we have members that seem disconnected from fan sentiment and under the impression that everyone loves him. It makes no sense for sites last Arseblog or others that blame the Board to tell protesters to shut up about Wenger when it’s clear that the Board are the ones oblivious to his flaws. Protests against Ivan and Stan won’t change anything. It’s an unclear message. We don’t need them to give Wenger more money, we don’t need them to tell Wenger to ‘try harder’, a change to the infrastructure would be great but we’ve already seen how quickly Jonker walked away….the message we need to send them is that Wenger has to go.

There are arguments that Gazidis once unshackled might be an effective chief executive once Wenger is gone, that remains to be seen.

If the next guy is just muddling along like Wenger and making Kroenke money, i don't believe Gazidis is going to have any more power to sanction or even fire the new guy than he has with Wenger.

So that to degree i'm not sure Gazidis not taking the board line is really of much relevance. I hope i'm wrong but whilst Kroenke is involved with the club we are in the same boat and we are dependent on the manager themselves admitting that it's not working.

But don't get me wrong we won't know for sure until Wenger is gone, and to that end that has to be the no1 priority

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Originally Posted by Letters

Are fans different? Why? He didn't celebrate wildly and pretty much every football manager celebrates pretty much every goal to some degree or other. He hardly ran along the touchline and started crowd surfing.

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Yes they are, he's not a fan at all, hence the reason he really doesn't understand their concerns at all and comes out with things like not being able to judge based on a couple weeks etc etc

He's doing his job and getting job satisfaction he's not a fan or anything of the sort, a fan wouldn't settle for 4th and be proud of it every season.

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Originally Posted by Letters

That is impossible to quantify but he's certainly one of the most important figures in our modern history.

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He's played his part I don't deny that, but he's also played his part in what we are today, which IMO isn't a much of a football club anymore, we're a business if anything, so that's part of his legacy as well, you can't just ignore the larger part of his career with us.

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Originally Posted by Letters

Literally no-one has said that.

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It's been alluded, Wenger this, Wenger that, Wenger is so great, we have so much to thank him for. I differ in my opinion, it's a two way street, he's done some great things we should be very happy about, he's also done some bad things we shouldn't...but more importantly he should thank us because he's got a lot out of the relationship with the club and don't just mean financially.

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

When I'm not at work i will trawl through the archives and present to you that those were in fact exactly your words.

As for the Sutton thing, he hardly jumped from his seat, he smiled and gave a small fist pump....the same any manager would do in any circumstance.

Do you think anyone has enjoyed watching us more often than not the last few years, most of us for years have wanted Wenger to go...what we don't do is delight in it when we lose.....we all have known for some time he isn't capable of pushing forward but we want to be proved wrong....you seemingly don't.

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Fair enough, personally thought considering it was against a non league team with part timers it was hardly anything to be thrilled about, but hey ho.

With all due respect, this is nonsense, you want us to win and him to go? That will absolutely never happen, be realistic...the only way he will go and things will change is if things are going wrong. I want change and that change will only happen if things aren't working, the guy is as good as superglued to the marble halls of this club.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...82&oe=596AA75A

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Originally Posted by Letters

He actually stood up, smiled slightly, clapped 4 times and gave a very small fist pump for the first goal. Second goal he was already standing up, he clapped a few times, very small fist pump and that was that. Job done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdaByjtjoqk

Neither goal was celebrated like we'd "just won the Champions League" (which is how Zim described it).

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I was obviously being OTT when I said that, why do you insist on taking everything I say so literally? That's about as animated as Wenger gets on the sidelines so my point stands.

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Originally Posted by AFC Leveller

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...82&oe=596AA75A

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:lol:

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Originally Posted by Özim

Fair enough, personally thought considering it was against a non league team with part timers it was hardly anything to be thrilled about, but hey ho.

With all due respect, this is nonsense, you want us to win and him to go? That will absolutely never happen, be realistic...the only way he will go and things will change is if things are going wrong. I want change and that change will only happen if things aren't working, the guy is as good as superglued to the marble halls of this club.

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I want him gone BECAUSE the results are not coming, no other reason. I want him gone because things aren't working, if things were working if the results were coming i would want him to stay.

For example When he signed a new contract in 2014 i knew he'd be here until 2017, so what's the alternative to hoping for the best?

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Originally Posted by Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie

I want him gone BECAUSE the results are not coming, no other reason. I want him gone because things aren't working, if things were working if the results were coming i would want him to stay.

For example When he signed a new contract in 2014 i knew he'd be here until 2017, so what's the alternative to hoping for the best?

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I want him gone because they haven't worked for 10+ years, we never compete for the top prizes and see the same failings every season, we're poor in the transfer market, our medical team is hopeless and our youth team average, on top of that our football is very boring.

It depends what you deem to be working, the above and qualifying for the CL and winning an FA cup is not "working" for me, competing for the top prizes, unpredictability, excitement, a positibe transfer policy and flexibility is.

Managers don't always stay for their contracts, look at Ranieri.....if think don't work they more often than not get the sack, just because he says he's stating doesn't mean it has to be the case. As for hoping, there is no hope, that's part of the problem.