The Arsenal v Man Ure, Sunday 3 September 2023, 16.30

[Mac76]

0-3 Fernandes hatter

We might as well get this going, as it seems to me like this is not just another Arsenal v Man Ure match, but a real weather vane for the season.

Arteta has to change things drastically - by which I mean just play a sensible team and formation - his follies so far have meant we've been a hard watch, scraped a couple of wins but then failed to beat a side down to ten men at home. I should be looking forward to this game - last season I was - but not this time

While ETH's Moan U are not perfect you only have to look at how they came back from 2-0 down last week to understand the threat - I don't think we could ever do that with the current lineup and formation and tactics Arteta is employing

If we carry on how we are we will at best draw though my money would probably be on a defeat

Now Arteta has offloaded all our LBs we are in a right pickle in that position as i simply refuse to accept it makes any sense whatsoever to play Zin there - he cannot defend and caused the draw in the Fulham game - so I guess it has to still be Kiwior who isn't perfect but at least not a suicide bomb like Zin

Eddie has done enough to merit a start with Jesus on the bench to be a chaos player later on if needed

So maybe this:

Ram

White Saliba Gabriel Kiwior

Rice

Odegaard Vieira Trossard

Saka Eddie Martinelli

[HCZ_Reborn]

Team I’d play


Ramsdale, Kiwior, Gabriel, Saliba, Tomoyasu, Jorginho, Partey, Vieira (I’d rather play Havertz but think too big a risk), Trossard, Saka, Nketiah


Drop Martinelli, Drop Odegaard, Drop Rice, Drop White (especially given how badly he did when he came up against Rashford in this game in January)



Given I don’t expect Arteta to do any of the above, I think United will break their can’t win away at a top six issue that bedevilled us for so long and get a 2-0 win here. Don’t think there is enough variety or conviction in our attack to get goals and we will set up to concede on the break.

[Mac76]

Team I’d play


Ramsdale, Kiwior, Gabriel, Saliba, Tomoyasu, Jorginho, Partey, Vieira (I’d rather play Havertz but think too big a risk), Trossard, Saka, Nketiah


Drop Martinelli, Drop Odegaard, Drop Rice, Drop White (especially given how badly he did when he came up against Rashford in this game in January)



Given I don’t expect Arteta to do any of the above, I think United will break their can’t win away at a top six issue that bedevilled us for so long and get a 2-0 win here. Don’t think there is enough variety or conviction in our attack to get goals and we will set up to concede on the break.

I agree some of the players you mention dropping need to up their game (though not Rice) but you can see the difference Vieira made when he came on and i think Trossard, if played not as a striker but in support will have a similar effect and they should be able to get better performances out of people - I suspect Havertz' presence was at least part of the reason Martinelli struggled tbh

[HCZ_Reborn]

I agree some of the players you mention dropping need to up their game (though not Rice) but you can see the difference Vieira made when he came on and i think Trossard, if played not as a striker but in support will have a similar effect and they should be able to get better performances out of people - I suspect Havertz' presence was at least part of the reason Martinelli struggled tbh

It’s not about whether Rice plays well or not, it’s about how much he’s contributing and he’s not. It’s not his fault, we just absolutely don’t need him. We as I said somewhere else needed cover for Partey and Rice is just too inferior for that and it’s sadly not even close …If we play most teams away from home we sit deep enough that we don’t concede much so don’t need him, and at home he hasn’t got the pace to break up play on the counter.

I don’t know if I agree about Havertz bringing down the play of those around him, Odegaard it’s just not coming off for him…he’s trying too hard almost and then he gets frustrated and goes hiding. Martinelli is not doing enough when he does get the ball.

There has to be some reckoning for that and not just scapegoating one single player who is being played hideously out of position.

[Mac76]

It’s not about whether Rice plays well or not, it’s about how much he’s contributing and he’s not. It’s not his fault, we just absolutely don’t need him. We as I said somewhere else needed cover for Partey and Rice is just too inferior for that and it’s sadly not even close …If we play most teams away from home we sit deep enough that we don’t concede much so don’t need him, and at home he hasn’t got the pace to break up play on the counter.

I don’t know if I agree about Havertz bringing down the play of those around him, Odegaard it’s just not coming off for him…he’s trying too hard almost and then he gets frustrated and goes hiding. Martinelli is not doing enough when he does get the ball.

There has to be some reckoning for that and not just scapegoating one single player who is being played hideously out of position.

Your views on Rice continue to defy those of pretty much everyone else who watches him and yes I'm going to talk again about people who go to the game

Partey can be good but is unreliable and injury-prone

as for the comments on Odegaard / Martinelli yes I agree, but I think Havertz was getting in Martinelli's way a bit

As I've said before, it's not just about Havertz' position, overall he is slow to get to the ball and slow to react when he receives it, he looks like he's lost whatever pace he had, it happens sometimes

As for Odegaard, he looks really pissed off these days, it's pure conjecture on my part but I wonder whether, now Arteta's got his new toys in Havertz and Rice, maybe Odegaard feels sidelined, I don't know, we've already seen him and Rice arguing on the pitch and I wonder whether Rice as former West Ham captain is throwing his weight around on the training ground also

[HCZ_Reborn]

Your views on Rice continue to defy those of pretty much everyone else who watches him and yes I'm going to talk again about people who go to the game

Partey can be good but is unreliable and injury-prone

as for the comments on Odegaard / Martinelli yes I agree, but I think Havertz was getting in Martinelli's way a bit

As I've said before, it's not just about Havertz' position, overall he is slow to get to the ball and slow to react when he receives it, he looks like he's lost whatever pace he had, it happens sometimes

As for Odegaard, he looks really pissed off these days, it's pure conjecture on my part but I wonder whether, now Arteta's got his new toys in Havertz and Rice, maybe Odegaard feels sidelined, I don't know, we've already seen him and Rice arguing on the pitch and I wonder whether Rice as former West Ham captain is throwing his weight around on the training ground also

And I’ve said most football fans are morons, they see a player running around a lot like he’s Frank Lampard and therefore they make the mistaken assumption that they are seeing someone who is actually contributing. What they are failing to see is how Rice slows down our attacks because the ball is coming to him and he lacks either the pace or the range of passing to set things up quickly, so instead he does these little Hollywood bursts and shoots on goal for a keeper to make an equally Hollywood save, it’s all very impressive but it doesn’t actually achieve anything.

Odegaard is unhappy because Rice despite his footballing limitations is a better leader on the pitch than him. No one who isnt suffering from blunt force trauma or psychosis would ever think to have made him captain to begin with. As for Havertz, If you were playing central midfield despite being an attacker you’d be slow as well because your brain is trying to orientate you on whether you need to pass the ball or move forward with it. Like I say it’s easy to blame one player for the feeble performances of others.

Partey can be unreliable and injury prone. But in terms of raw ability, it’s not just that he’s better than Rice…it’s that they aren’t even in the same league. Rice is Elneny with a bit more athleticism, but not enough or anywhere enough technical ability to be useful to us.
He hasn’t had a bad game for us, because he’s a hard worker. But hard work on its own will not bridge the gap when there’s a yawning chasm of talent between him and Jorginho let alone him and Partey. Simpleton fans see the price tag and the Hollywood cameos and they probably think he’s world class

[Marc Overmars]

United are not very good away from home so we should be confident of getting a result.

I feel like the dull opponents we’ve had to start has also contributed to the insipid displays but I expect to see a much better showing here given the step up in calibre.

If we lose this then I would be very concerned at the trajectory we’re going to be heading in over the next few games which aren’t favourable fixtures.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

United are not very good away from home so we should be confident of getting a result.

I feel like the dull opponents we’ve had to start has also contributed to the insipid displays but I expect to see a much better showing here given the step up in calibre.

If we lose this then I would be very concerned at the trajectory we’re going to be heading in over the next few games which aren’t favourable fixtures.

I also think we'll play better.

I just hope we will not waste our chances.

If Arteta had started us of the way he should have, I could see us giving them a real hiding, like Liverpool did to them last season

[HCZ_Reborn]

I also think we'll play better.

I just hope we will not waste our chances.

If Arteta had started us of the way he should have, I could see us giving them a real hiding, like Liverpool did to them last season

I’ve seen some terrible defending in my time. But United’s defending against Liverpool is probably the worst defending I’ve seen in the top flight, worse than Derby County, worse than us when we lost 8-2 to United. It’s the kind of defending that should have been investigated for match fixing. Confident we’d have scored at least 7 if they defended like that against us

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

My lineup against united:


.................... Rams (until we see Raya).......

White.......Saliba.......Gabriel................ Zin

......Odegaard.........Partey............Rice

.......Saka,...........Eddie.........Trosaard

I would have loved to start Viera, and probably still could, if i went for 3 defenders like Arteta might still do, but I feel these are our best players and though some like Odegaard have not done enough to deserve to start, I'd still persist.

Viera definitely comes in as the 1st sub once we have the advantage or if its still looking like a draw.