The Arsenal v Man Ure, Sunday 3 September 2023, 16.30

[Mac76]

It’s not about whether Rice plays well or not, it’s about how much he’s contributing and he’s not. It’s not his fault, we just absolutely don’t need him. We as I said somewhere else needed cover for Partey and Rice is just too inferior for that and it’s sadly not even close …If we play most teams away from home we sit deep enough that we don’t concede much so don’t need him, and at home he hasn’t got the pace to break up play on the counter.

I don’t know if I agree about Havertz bringing down the play of those around him, Odegaard it’s just not coming off for him…he’s trying too hard almost and then he gets frustrated and goes hiding. Martinelli is not doing enough when he does get the ball.

There has to be some reckoning for that and not just scapegoating one single player who is being played hideously out of position.

Your views on Rice continue to defy those of pretty much everyone else who watches him and yes I'm going to talk again about people who go to the game

Partey can be good but is unreliable and injury-prone

as for the comments on Odegaard / Martinelli yes I agree, but I think Havertz was getting in Martinelli's way a bit

As I've said before, it's not just about Havertz' position, overall he is slow to get to the ball and slow to react when he receives it, he looks like he's lost whatever pace he had, it happens sometimes

As for Odegaard, he looks really pissed off these days, it's pure conjecture on my part but I wonder whether, now Arteta's got his new toys in Havertz and Rice, maybe Odegaard feels sidelined, I don't know, we've already seen him and Rice arguing on the pitch and I wonder whether Rice as former West Ham captain is throwing his weight around on the training ground also

[HCZ_Reborn]

Your views on Rice continue to defy those of pretty much everyone else who watches him and yes I'm going to talk again about people who go to the game

Partey can be good but is unreliable and injury-prone

as for the comments on Odegaard / Martinelli yes I agree, but I think Havertz was getting in Martinelli's way a bit

As I've said before, it's not just about Havertz' position, overall he is slow to get to the ball and slow to react when he receives it, he looks like he's lost whatever pace he had, it happens sometimes

As for Odegaard, he looks really pissed off these days, it's pure conjecture on my part but I wonder whether, now Arteta's got his new toys in Havertz and Rice, maybe Odegaard feels sidelined, I don't know, we've already seen him and Rice arguing on the pitch and I wonder whether Rice as former West Ham captain is throwing his weight around on the training ground also

And I’ve said most football fans are morons, they see a player running around a lot like he’s Frank Lampard and therefore they make the mistaken assumption that they are seeing someone who is actually contributing. What they are failing to see is how Rice slows down our attacks because the ball is coming to him and he lacks either the pace or the range of passing to set things up quickly, so instead he does these little Hollywood bursts and shoots on goal for a keeper to make an equally Hollywood save, it’s all very impressive but it doesn’t actually achieve anything.

Odegaard is unhappy because Rice despite his footballing limitations is a better leader on the pitch than him. No one who isnt suffering from blunt force trauma or psychosis would ever think to have made him captain to begin with. As for Havertz, If you were playing central midfield despite being an attacker you’d be slow as well because your brain is trying to orientate you on whether you need to pass the ball or move forward with it. Like I say it’s easy to blame one player for the feeble performances of others.

Partey can be unreliable and injury prone. But in terms of raw ability, it’s not just that he’s better than Rice…it’s that they aren’t even in the same league. Rice is Elneny with a bit more athleticism, but not enough or anywhere enough technical ability to be useful to us.
He hasn’t had a bad game for us, because he’s a hard worker. But hard work on its own will not bridge the gap when there’s a yawning chasm of talent between him and Jorginho let alone him and Partey. Simpleton fans see the price tag and the Hollywood cameos and they probably think he’s world class

[Mac76]

And I’ve said most football fans are morons, they see a player running around a lot like he’s Frank Lampard and therefore they make the mistaken assumption that they are seeing someone who is actually contributing.

Sounds like what I say about people who like Zin

I love Jorg and would happily see him start in any game tbh but I think Rice joins up the team well and some of his cross-field and forward passing is in a very high class

I thing people are a bit myopic on Partey, it sounds like i dislike him but i don't at all, I just see inconsistency and inury-proness. He's had some awful games for us

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sounds like what I say about people who like Zin

I love Jorg and would happily see him start in any game tbh but I think Rice joins up the team well and some of his cross-field and forward passing is in a very high class

I thing people are a bit myopic on Partey, it sounds like i dislike him but i don't at all, I just see inconsistency and inury-proness. He's had some awful games for us

It’s not at all, because I don’t think Rice is shit but I’m just being realistic of his ability level. Partey is inconsistent because he’s playing out of position but he was the midfield engine room last season…he was the conduit through which everything flowed and to do that you need to be able to have some technical ability. Rice is ok at short passing, or short bursts of acceleration…he’s also a good tackler on the ball but we don’t need that….certainly not if that player can’t do anything to prevent counter attacks. Rice clearly has a decent footballing brain, but when his legs are not capable of the level of acceleration or physical coordination required it’s all for nothing.

You can’t play for Arsenal being as limited as Rice is as a player and expect anything good to come from it. His attitude and work rate are unimpeachable. I wish everyone starting for Arsenal had his level of professionalism. But he will never be more than bang average, that’s not been good enough for England and it sure as hell won’t be good enough for us

[Mac76]

If you think Rice is slow, just take a look at Havertz and yet you think he should keep his place in the side

Rice can - and does - also play longer passes it's not just short passing

[HCZ_Reborn]

If you think Rice is slow, just take a look at Havertz and yet you think he should keep his place in the side

Rice can - and does - also play longer passes it's not just short passing

Jorginho is slow, but he’s technically good

Havertz I wouldn’t agree is slow, he has been slow because he’s playing out of position and it’s going to take half a second longer to process what he needs to do. I’m not saying he was a good purchase, but no sense in totally writing him off until he actually gets a chance to play in a position where he can be of use to us


Being able to play one 40 yard pass every other game does not make you an accomplished passer. As I’ve said repeatedly of Rice, he’s got a quick brain so he will always come up trumps statistically because he can do the absolute basics very well.

But I keep stressing this, we don’t need someone to do the basics well…we have that covered. What we need is someone who is able to intercept when the game is stretched, can win the ball deep and carry it forward under high pressing, can find players with an excellent range of passing or have the acceleration to carry it forward himself. We identified that player in January, it was Moises Caicedo. That we allowed him to go to Chelsea pursuing Rice is in my view a sackable offence in of itself. It’s squandering our potential through misallocation of funds. On a player we didn’t need, doesn’t in anyway improve us and lacks what we need to be of any real value to us

[HCZ_Reborn]

To be honest I think people are only lying to themselves when they refute what I’m saying, they know what I’m saying is true but because of the money spent and the likelihood that it’s completely fucked us in the short term…they’ll pretend it’s not.

Havertz also a large amount of money spent to no good purchase but there hasn’t been the hype around him there was around signing Rice and people don’t want to accept that it can never be matched…then they are going to be stuck.


If Havertz is played up front or in the hole for a run of a few games and continues to be poor, I’ll at least pony up and say he’s hopeless.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Actually maybe comparing him to Elneny is harsh, but at absolute best he’s Gilberto(and I think that’s massively harsh on Gilberto) and Gilberto didn’t work without Vieira and we don’t have a Vieira (correction we have a Vieira, it’s just he’s a malnourished waste of space), I like Partey but he’s no Vieira different type of player.