Where Arsenal is going wrong

[LDG]

Yes. I'm not in the kamakazi club. Far from it. I'm not a spoilt brat.

But what I do see is a manager with so much to give, and players with so much talent. So why the fuck waste it all because you don't believe in teaching the basics of football?? And that is outrageous....far worse than if we just couldn't afford to buy because the board were writing themselves cheques.

The board can pay each other and the players as much as they sodding want for all I care, as long as they do the business on the pitch.

And that is what pisses me off...because effectively it feels like they're taking the piss out of me. And to do that to a fan who has followed every sodding kick and cried and cheered and lived every moment for 27 years...it's a little hard to take.

1 Centre Back. 1 Striker. TV5 gets the armband. That's all I want now in terms of spending with the current squad.

What I want most, is for us to grow a pair, and learn the basics as well as the nice stuff.

[Grebbo]

For me it's the moaning that does my head in. Constant moaning from Wenger:

'They only wanted to defend and didn't want to let us win'
'They were too rough'
'They spent money on buying players'
'I hope we recover after this disappointment'
'We're a young team'

Add the constant defeatist attitude '4th is success' and is it any wonder the team is so gutless and shit?

Wenger moans more than the fans - that's how bad he is.

[IBK]

I wonder what needs to happen, though. Could we all do with being a bit more honest?

I have lost a lot of respect for the manager because of his contadictory statements and his spin on everything. I don't want naivity, but I also don't want my manager having a reputation for whingeing.

I am more ambivalent about this issue of finishing fourth, though, because it is probably our natural level now, given the financial power elsewhere. I don't necessarily think its the talk of fourth being a good result that is the cause of the complacency amongst our players - I think its because we have paid to much, and given far too much time and patience to players who aren't good enough. The fact that we are struggling to sell some of the dead wood speaks for itself.

[LDG]

Wenger himself acknowledged all of our deficiencies at the end of the season, and said he was going to put them right.

I haven't seen anything which remotely looks like he's putting those right. He's tried to sell the dross, but failed. They're fucking around with two players who don't want to play for us, one being our captain. The same mistakes are being made pre-season in terms of the defence. Moreover, we haven't managed to buy a proper defender because we won't pay the market price.

Trophies don't matter. Fourth doesn't matter. Money doesn't matter. City don't matter. Utd don't matter. Mata doesn't fucking matter.

What does matter is that we see some action from our management that proves they have learnt from their mistakes, and are trying to put them right, whether we finish top or bottom. And we aren't seeing that, and we have 11 days until the season starts.

[IBK]

Wenger himself acknowledged all of our deficiencies at the end of the season, and said he was going to put them right.

I haven't seen anything which remotely looks like he's putting those right. He's tried to sell the dross, but failed. They're fucking around with two players who don't want to play for us, one being our captain. The same mistakes are being made pre-season in terms of the defence. Moreover, we haven't managed to buy a proper defender because we won't pay the market price.

Trophies don't matter. Fourth doesn't matter. Money doesn't matter. City don't matter. Utd don't matter. Mata doesn't fucking matter.

What does matter is that we see some action from our management that proves they have learnt from their mistakes, and are trying to put them right, whether we finish top or bottom. And we aren't seeing that, and we have 11 days until the season starts.

My concern is that the manager believes that the way to address our deficiencies (and it is important to see these deficiencies in context, BTW), is to buy new players - rather than to address the way the side trains, and plays the game.

The only reason we haven't concluded deals for such players is because of the Cesc limbo situation - and here we are seeing two things happening.

First, the failure of a classic AW gamble - tell him you want another year out of him to win things last year, and then believe (mistakenly) that you can persuade him to stay another year after that.

Second - AW with his eye off the ball in terms of his primary job. To me this brinkmanship with Barca is because selling Cesc for less than his valuation offends AW's business ideals - and the effect is that it is delaying us sealing other needed transfer deals. At any other top club, the manager would be being told to do what he needs to to strengthen the team. Wenger has made a killing on other big player transfers away from AFC, and as Grebbo says on the other thread - Cesc is already gone - in fact he was gone halfway through last season. Take the £5M hit. Acknowledge that this is not because of any negotiating tactic, but because of the simple fact that Barca don't need him desperately, but he doesn't want to stay with us, sell him and bring in someone else. Don't gamble with the team's season.

[Niall_Quinn]

Understood, but I wonder whether the level of unrest ATM is because the manager and board give the impression either of being delusional, or of knowing what is wrong but refusing to address it for commercial reasons.

I may be naive, but I am suprised that genuine Arsenal fans (rather than plastics) would be this upset simply because of the team's limited failings. We haven't fallen out of the CL places or been relegated, have we - yet the angst around AFC is worse than it was around Liverpool last season.

Surely its the club's/manager's attitude, rather than the problems on the pitch that is to blame for the degree of disenchantment? I mean we all know that we are unlikely to win the league with our relative resources - don't we?

I agree with what you've identified as the root of the problem. Fans can take defeat, they can even survive languishing at the foot of the table for an extended period - provided the AMBITION is to improve. However when the leaders at the club are refusing to acknowledge there is anything significantly wrong and pour scorn on anyone who suggests otherwise, that level of contempt is going to be reciprocated. Many of the fans see the club going from great, to average, to bad, to worse. The media see it too, the ex-players, the current players who want out or would never dream of coming here in the first place. Everyone can see it. Except the board and the manager. They're right, the rest of the world is wrong even though they have zero evidence to back up their assertions. On the contrary, all they have to look at is a stream of failure. Yet they still insist things are on track. Arrogance, incompetence, both?

Our captain won't play for us, our defenders look like they haven't trained in years, we have one striker who's injury prone, we're overloaded with very average squad players that have repeatedly shown they are not up to the task. According to the board what we need is patience. Patience for what? What's going to happen if we are patient? Will it be like the glories the were hung off the back of the stadium move? More empty promises?

If I could see a leader emerge from the pack, somebody who would grab the problems and shake them out and find tangible solutions - even if those solutions were going to take a year or two or even three more to materialise, that'd be okay. If I thought we were stopping the rot and making every effort to slowly reverse the downward trend, that would be great, I'd support that. Instead we have a bunch of arrogant cocks who want us to shut the fuck up, hand over our wallets and leave it entirely to them even though they are completely fucking it up. Oh, and they're getting rich in the process.

So yes, the board and the manager and the intense disrespect they have for the fans. That's probably the biggest problem because divided we'll fall. But blind loyalty isn't the answer either, neither is capitulation to authority and expertise for the sake of it. Everyone, from high to low has a right to say hey, what a fuck up! If the board don't like it they can piss off and go and bank the Fabregas transfer money and buy themselves and new yacht... see if I care...

Oh wait...

[IBK]

I agree with what you've identified as the root of the problem. Fans can take defeat, they can even survive languishing at the foot of the table for an extended period - provided the AMBITION is to improve. However when the leaders at the club are refusing to acknowledge there is anything significantly wrong and pour scorn on anyone who suggests otherwise, that level of contempt is going to be reciprocated. Many of the fans see the club going from great, to average, to bad, to worse. The media see it too, the ex-players, the current players who want out or would never dream of coming here in the first place. Everyone can see it. Except the board and the manager. They're right, the rest of the world is wrong even though they have zero evidence to back up their assertions. On the contrary, all they have to look at is a stream of failure. Yet they still insist things are on track. Arrogance, incompetence, both?

Our captain won't play for us, our defenders look like they haven't trained in years, we have one striker who's injury prone, we're overloaded with very average squad players that have repeatedly shown they are not up to the task. According to the board what we need is patience. Patience for what? What's going to happen if we are patient? Will it be like the glories the were hung off the back of the stadium move? More empty promises?

If I could see a leader emerge from the pack, somebody who would grab the problems and shake them out and find tangible solutions - even if those solutions were going to take a year or two or even three more to materialise, that'd be okay. If I thought we were stopping the rot and making every effort to slowly reverse the downward trend, that would be great, I'd support that. Instead we have a bunch of arrogant cocks who want us to shut the fuck up, hand over our wallets and leave it entirely to them even though they are completely fucking it up. Oh, and they're getting rich in the process.

So yes, the board and the manager and the intense disrespect they have for the fans. That's probably the biggest problem because divided we'll fall. But blind loyalty isn't the answer either, neither is capitulation to authority and expertise for the sake of it. Everyone, from high to low has a right to say hey, what a fuck up! If the board don't like it they can piss off and go and bank the Fabregas transfer money and buy themselves and new yacht... see if I care...

Oh wait...

Depressing, but true. And I can see exactly where LDG is coming from and why - and his is a good example of what is happening to Arsenal fans - because he genuinely believed that the penny had finally dropped and there would be a change of direction this Summer, but there is precious little evidence of that. So even the patient, the stalwarts rather than the plastics , are becoming disillusioned.

And the level of angst is being caused by the attitude towards us at the top. I found it genuinely depressing on Sunday that what started off as a sunny, promising day, had to end with boos - and that was what Afobe, and a returning TH14 will remember. But the club's attitude is to criticise the booing, rather than trying to understand what lies behind it.

[LDG]

Depressing, but true. And I can see exactly where LDG is coming from and why - and his is a good example of what is happening to Arsenal fans - because he genuinely believed that the penny had finally dropped and there would be a change of direction this Summer, but there is precious little evidence of that. So even the patient, the stalwarts rather than the plastics , are becoming disillusioned.

And the level of angst is being caused by the attitude towards us at the top. I found it genuinely depressing on Sunday that what started off as a sunny, promising day, had to end with boos - and that was what Afobe, and a returning TH14 will remember. But the club's attitude is to criticise the booing, rather than trying to understand what lies behind it.

Pretty much mate.

[Japan Shaking All Over]

I believe a lot of our problems stem from not being able to recognise our own face in the mirror!

It's as we see the problems ie the defence but just refuse to look at them more through them and my looking through them we fail to acknowledge them thus leave them unattended.

The GK/defence problem has been with us for yonks now and the lack of mental strength, just as long.......a failure to kill off games comes about by this because we prance around like everyone owes us.

No-one thinks they owe us anything, thats why we get pushed around......we get pushed around on the pitch, in the transfer market and by our own players and their contracts.
This summer seems to be a prime example.......we are incapable it seems of clinching a deal without a drawn out saga.......we get every bid we make thrown back at us be it for our lack of respect and arrogance or that we are just tight. Teams know they can say no and force us to come back with another offer or lose out.......they also know we half, maybe 3/4s have our hands tieed because we cant decide what to do about Cesc/Nasri..........FFS just grow a pair and for IMO tke a hit.......sell them both and build new tem of commited players........I will take a naff season if I see ambition in the team

I agree there is a lot of moaning but that can be expected........we are having a rough time and we all believe we have the answer, we dont know what is going on so we assume and like most, those assumptions are negative but fairly made on past experiences and evidence.
Everyone is shit scared of Wenger doing another tick like he did last year.......Kos and Squid to answer our defensive needs.

The board are the only ones who dont seem to be getting pushed around, in fact they are times seem to be unmovable, the stubborn gits.......they seem to pushing us around, getting us to accept, statements, quickly followed by contradictory actions...........I remain optimistic that there are still things to happen but I get frustrated most by the Cesc/Nasri sagas and want to see these concluded, I heard Wenger saying by Sunday, but I still feel none the wiser.

time to take a hard look, a hard look at ourselves and what needs to be done in order to make ourselves beautiful again.......it may not require that much but it does require some work Wenger........hopefully you will see it for what it really is!

[AKBapologist]

You want us to be more decisive in transfers? I agree.

Next.