Arsenal 0-1 West Ham Match Reaction

[KSE Comedy Club]

The red was incorrect and VAR should have overruled it. MLS was fouled first, that's how the "goal scoring opportunity" was created in the first place. How VAR didn't pick that up is a mystery. After that it was a clear foul and that's the only thing VAR examined, evidently. Unless they saw the foul on MLS and simply overlooked it because it's Arsenal and MLS - irresistible I would suspect. It ay not have had an impact on the score, but MLS should have been playing from the KO anyway which certainly would have helped prevent that ridiculous goal we conceded.

I do agree that it was a foul on MLS first, but he should've gone down instead of trying to challenge Kudus.

Also he was guilty of doing what most of the team have been guilty of - dithering on the ball for no reason.
Raya was so far up the pitch MLS could and should have passed across to him in one touch and eliminated the danger.

So in the end the red was regrettably, inevitable. I don't have too much of an issue with it.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I continue to believe we should have had a punt on Rashford.
Two assists today apparently.
It couldn't be any bloody worse.

I'm starting to agree with you on this one, despite previously feeling I'd rather be forcibly arsefucked in prison by a gang of wrong uns.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I do think we have bottled it. Maybe not by failing to win the league, but certainly when it has come to opportunities to at least put pressure on Liverpool. The manager as good as said so much about Saturday's game, and we did not play like title winners against the likes of Bournemouth; Fulham; Everton; Brighton; Newcastle (not to mention our cup exits). We have been profligate when it comes to scoring from clear chances throughout, and have had more defensive lapses and mistakes than I can remember for a long time. I am not saying that we have a God given right to win every game, but injuries or not our players have not stepped up when needed too many times. When Odegard was hiding on Saturday, when we played with no intent or drive and simply looked limp; when once again we were at sixes and sevens for their goal it's difficult not to reach the conclusion that we wilted when it counted. And this is by no means the first time we have been found wanting when Liverpool have dropped points. While admittedly this has not been the case throughout, too many times I have not seen a team with the fight needed to sustain a title challenge. Objectively, a review of our season won't focus on injuries first and foremost. It will show a team of players who, while they may have faced insurmountable odds in winning the league with key injuries and lack of player investment, failed to reach their potential.

And BTW I specifically said that we did not bottle it last season.

Absolutely spot on.

The only thing I will add is that we were setup to fail after the summer window.
Starting the season with a 22 man squad instead of a full 25 man squad and expecting to mount a title charge (alongside 3 other cups) should be considered gross misconduct.

[KSE Comedy Club]

I just feel there's goals in this side. Admittedly that opinion is starting to fly in the face of evidence, but Nwaneri looks likely, Odegaard can score, Rice chips in here and there.
I basically agree with you though and it's why I think you're being a bit harsh on Arteta. Yes, we are light on squad depth and yes we needed a striker but I'm not sure Arteta is responsible for transfer dealings. And we're still above everyone but Liverpool - they've been lucky with injuries and have had Salah on absolute fire all season.

There are goals, but this season our entire style of play has been turned upside down.

We don't counter with pace, we stop and hold up play when in good positions.
We spend too much time passing backwards and sideways.
Our general slow build up is the main cause of us not being able to 'break teams down' - if we actually ran at goal sometimes their defences wouldn't have time to organise themselves in tight military lines.
Our attackers look to pass out wide continually, instead of being more direct - our biggest reason for not scoring goals after......
Seemingly losing the ability to shoot on target!

[IBK]

No, 'bottling' implies fear, whereas in our case it's incompetence and being misguided - Arteta went for one attacking player (Sesko) in the summer then gave up when he coudn't get him and went back to his comfort zone of goalkeepers and defensive players

I've heard the club and Edu were far from convinced on prioritising Merino over an actual attacker and they were right

He simply seems to underplay the need for more attacking players and won't even consider someone if they aren't what he thinks is perfect for his setup, it plays into his stubborness and control freakery - again though it's not fear it's just his apparent mindset

I'd say that the word more connotes lack of courage, which for me in the context of our team (courtesy of Merriam Webster - 'mental or moral strength to venture, persevere, and withstand danger, fear, or difficulty' - applies nicely. While I have said that I don't think its really fair to use the term in respect of last season we did suffer a late collapse at home to Villa in mid April 2024, just as our title hopes were ended by our debacle at home against Brighton in May the season before.

True champions find a way to win the games that really matter. At the time we played West Ham - the game really mattered as it was a chance to put pressure on Liverpool following a stumble. Our players and manager were found wanting. As they have before when trying to capitalise on liverpool dropping points.

Its true that we are decimated by injuries, and of course this is going to affect us. But this said, we are still a better team on paper than West Ham, and had 9 first team players starting the match. They fell short in dynamism and intensity and for me this is the key issue. Our team did not leave it all out there to get a result from this game, and key players did not step up.

The reason why I shy away from using 'bottling' last season was the run we went on. You have bad days in football, and the Villa home game was one of them. But I'd say that we have fallen well short of the winning mentality needed to succeed throughout the whole of this season. We have our excuses, but they do not alter this underlying point. And 5 1/2 years into Arteta's project I can see why some are asking questions as to whether our manager and his team have what it takes to bring it to fruition.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I used the expression yesterday that talk of tactics was arranging deckchairs on the titanic and I stick by that. The mistake we made was assuming that the same players who got us 91 goals was it last season would be able to repeat that feat and that’s before we ran them into the ground

Comparing our plight to Man City’s which IBK has done I find particularly curious as City haven’t to my mind really experienced a problem with breaking teams down, their problem is in keeping goals out at the other end. And that is down to the fact that they are no longer being protected by the best defensive midfielder in the world.


If the argument is that possession based football is dull, can be vulnerable to teams that counter attack well etc…I mean that’s obvious isn’t it? It’s not a revelation that’s only become true this season. There isn’t an infallible tactic.


The irony of Arteta’s wish to make sure we don’t ship goals is that shipping goals on the counter becomes more likely when you do not have efficient chance makers and goal scorers because the absence of that forces you to overcommit. Doubly so when your first choice front three is all on the injury table. We all I think agree that we should make more of counter attacks and last season in the second half anyway it’s fair to say we did.


Both our wingers would make a run even before Raya intercepted a cross into the box and would throw the ball out for them to break.


The problem this season is we find it harder to take the lead to begin with. Why? A) for some reason I think players are missing chances that they’d otherwise score and B) Teams are better at working out how to neutralise us at set pieces (last time we scored from a set piece was January 1st)

The fact is the only way we are going to be able to play more direct is if teams come out and attack us to begin with, which they are under no obligation to do and if they are sensible they won’t (Palace and City it turns out aren’t sensible) so the talk of being more direct and quick is kind of academic.

Someone here accused MLS of dithering on the ball, it’s a fair criticism I guess but players dither on the ball when they aren’t confident in possession. They are half a second too slow in deciding whether to make a pass or whether to run another few yards with the ball. That kind of instinct is something you develop as a teenager you either have it or you don’t, and frankly players like MLS, Rice etc don’t. Rice is someone built to instinctively read danger and put out fires, his reading of the game doesn’t extend to being able to play an exact pass and know someone will be on the end of it.

Tactically it’s unnecessary to play two defensive midfielders against West Ham, in reality we don’t have the luxury of remedying that situation currently.

[IBK]

There are goals, but this season our entire style of play has been turned upside down.

We don't counter with pace, we stop and hold up play when in good positions.
We spend too much time passing backwards and sideways.
Our general slow build up is the main cause of us not being able to 'break teams down' - if we actually ran at goal sometimes their defences wouldn't have time to organise themselves in tight military lines.
Our attackers look to pass out wide continually, instead of being more direct - our biggest reason for not scoring goals after......
Seemingly losing the ability to shoot on target!

...which brings me back to the point I was making about our whole system/style of play, and whether this is becoming a bit obselete. HCZ says what can we do when teams don't come to play us. For me this is a bit of a cop out. For the last 2 or 3 seasons mid/low blocks have been a problem for us, even when at full strength. The manager has not found an effective answer (even our much vaunted set pieces have been found out). Like you say, the way we play is an open invitation to defences to get re-organised. An effective system should not have to rely one individual player (Saka) to produce a moment of brilliance. For all that Liverpool have benefitted from Salah's form, they create a multitude of chances every game and would still do without him. We make the game too difficult.

We do not manage transitions, there is indeed a lack of direct running, and options when we 'attack'. We almost oblige defensive teams by playing the ball wide and slowing the game down.

And the huge irony is that we nullify the advantage of having such a talented defence - and one of the best 6's in the game in Rice - by playing them so high up the pitch to make up for our lack of dynamism in midfield.

[HCZ_Reborn]

...which brings me back to the point I was making about our whole system/style of play, and whether this is becoming a bit obselete. HCZ says what can we do when teams don't come to play us. For me this is a bit of a cop out. For the last 2 or 3 seasons mid/low blocks have been a problem for us, even when at full strength. The manager has not found an effective answer (even our much vaunted set pieces have been found out). Like you say, the way we play is an open invitation to defences to get re-organised. An effective system should not have to rely one individual player (Saka) to produce a moment of brilliance. For all that Liverpool have benefitted from Salah's form, they create a multitude of chances every game and would still do without him. We make the game too difficult.

We do not manage transitions, there is indeed a lack of direct running, and options when we 'attack'. We almost oblige defensive teams by playing the ball wide and slowing the game down.

And the huge irony is that we nullify the advantage of having such a talented defence - and one of the best 6's in the game in Rice - by playing them so high up the pitch to make up for our lack of dynamism in midfield.

I think you’re missing my point which is at this exact moment in time it’s completely and totally academic. I’ve said until I’m blue in the face that most of the time we absolutely do not need to be playing two defensive midfielders, and in fact my last post actually fulsomely agrees with your point that actually ironically the contradiction between wanting to play this controlled game which makes our attacking inefficient which means we have to overcommit and as a result get caught too high in possession.

But given where we are at the moment in terms of the players available to us, we have two choices….continue to play the way we are doing and make ourselves vulnerable to conceding on the break, or we play more conservatively and hope against hope to get a scrappy goal. The luxury is not there to play the ball quicker. I’m literally the person who always moans about us playing Rice at 8, but I’m in no expectation that if we swap Rice and Partey around everything is going to get magically better and we will create far more chances which our second string attack will put away.

[IBK]

I think you’re missing my point which is at this exact moment in time it’s completely and totally academic. I’ve said until I’m blue in the face that most of the time we absolutely do not need to be playing two defensive midfielders, and in fact my last post actually fulsomely agrees with your point that actually ironically the contradiction between wanting to play this controlled game which makes our attacking inefficient which means we have to overcommit and as a result get caught too high in possession.

But given where we are at the moment in terms of the players available to us, we have two choices….continue to play the way we are doing and make ourselves vulnerable to conceding on the break, or we play more conservatively and hope against hope to get a scrappy goal. The luxury is not there to play the ball quicker. I’m literally the person who always moans about us playing Rice at 8, but I’m in no expectation that if we swap Rice and Partey around everything is going to get magically better and we will create far more chances which our second string attack will put away.

'Academic' debate is all we do on here

I do understand where we are - and that is a good part of my concern about where we can get to under Arteta. I think that we have set ourselves up - both in terms of our system and our players - not to be able to adapt to the more efficient and effective way in which many of our competitors are playing the game. I agree with you that swapping existing players will not achieve this. More generally, we have too few creative players; to few runners to receive the ball in advanced positions; and no reliable finishers.

We have spent on players and have a high wage bill. The quality we do have has been enough for us to finish second with a following wind. But our system is now too easily neutralised - even with all our forwards available. And even the potential transfer targets we have been linked to are unlikely, IMO to see us champions.

[HCZ_Reborn]

'Academic' debate is all we do on here

I do understand where we are - and that is a good part of my concern about where we can get to under Arteta. I think that we have set ourselves up - both in terms of our system and our players - not to be able to adapt to the more efficient and effective way in which many of our competitors are playing the game. I agree with you that swapping existing players will not achieve this. More generally, we have too few creative players; to few runners to receive the ball in advanced positions; and no reliable finishers.

We have spent on players and have a high wage bill. The quality we do have has been enough for us to finish second with a following wind. But our system is now too easily neutralised - even with all our forwards available. And even the potential transfer targets we have been linked to are unlikely, IMO to see us champions.

There’s nothing we can do to guarantee a league win. But ultimately there’s a reasonable expectation that having the best squad wins you the league regardless of the system you play, Liverpool are going to win because they arguably have the best available squad (which is currently a low bar). So in terms of which of us, city or Liverpool win the league next season comes down to who spends the wisest in the summer.

Having Rodri and having good attacking players allowed City to neutralise any potential weakness their style of play left them open to in transition.they were never having to overcommit. So really the stylistic change comes down to are we going to persist with two defensive midfielders in most games