Wenger - does he even understand whats wrong?

[Darth Vela]

I think he knows what's wrong as much as any fan does given his comments about our set-piece issues and weak mentality, he was trying to bring in that extra 2% with guys like Vermaelen and Koscielny (i.e. guys with a bit of determination) at the back and Chamakh up top (someone who's won titles, even if they're French, and has top level experience) but failed. Now he's going to try and bring it in again with changing up the squad and presumably bringing in more experience again, he needs to get it right as this'll be the 3rd straight year of failure imo and that needs to change.

[Elreactor]

To be fair, I think Wenger knows what happens, and he knows it well. But somehow the guy has deep mixed emotions as to the best way to fix (at least the major) problems. For example, of all the "failed" young prospects, how many of them has he actually sold, instead of letting their contracts expire? What would happen if either Denilson or Bendtner didn´t express their desire to leave the club? He tends to stick with players (his not-to-disrupt-squad philosophy), even if he knows they won´t contribute to the team as much as he had thought, and just sits (or loan) them until they fade away.

Or maybe he hasn´t got a clue after all.

[Niall_Quinn]

To be fair, I think Wenger knows what happens, and he knows it well. But somehow the guy has deep mixed emotions as to the best way to fix (at least the major) problems. For example, of all the "failed" young prospects, how many of them has he actually sold, instead of letting their contracts expire? What would happen if either Denilson or Bendtner didn´t express their desire to leave the club? He tends to stick with players (his not-to-disrupt-squad philosophy), even if he knows they won´t contribute to the team as much as he had thought, and just sits (or loan) them until they fade away.

Or maybe he hasn´t got a clue after all.

Arsene thinks he's building a family, not a team. He should be a foster parent not a football manager.

[Newguy]

Arsene thinks he's building a family, not a team. He should be a foster parent not a football manager.

Exactly, thats the flaw of this project of his, he thought that the players would grow together and form some sort of "remember the titans" bond. Delusion in this day and age, especially when the majority of the players he brought in and were not coming up through the academy from a young age.

[Ironing]

I don't think he does understand what's wrong (what is wrong btw?)

From my perspective we've been a lot luckier with injuries this season - in that points were not dropped due to players being out. The second half of the season, when we capitulated, we had Van Persie playing nearly every game. When Vermin was injured earlier on in the season, I remember doing just fine for a good while. Same for when Fab and Nas were out - we didn't miss them as we have missed our 'bigger' players in previous seasons. Walcott was definitely a bit of a blow, but as most people realise by now, it's not about the '1st choice' 11, but about the squad, and in my eyes we had the squad to cope.

My overriding point is this: YES some of our players aren't good enough, YES we had injuries (like always) - but I don't see how the connection between these two things, and being the best team in the country for the first half of the season, and falling to shit in the second.

So what is wrong then? It HAS to come down to 'mentality', ironically a word you would be hard pressed not to find in one of Wenger's post-match interviews or The Official Manager's Email™

[IBK]

I think he knows what's wrong as much as any fan does given his comments about our set-piece issues and weak mentality, he was trying to bring in that extra 2% with guys like Vermaelen and Koscielny (i.e. guys with a bit of determination) at the back and Chamakh up top (someone who's won titles, even if they're French, and has top level experience) but failed. Now he's going to try and bring it in again with changing up the squad and presumably bringing in more experience again, he needs to get it right as this'll be the 3rd straight year of failure imo and that needs to change.

As always - a logical argument, but I'm not sure I reach quite the same conclusion. The team's defensive vulnerability - particularly to set pieces - could be seen by a child. I'm not sure I have seen any comments demonstrating his acknowledgment that we do not utilise our offensive set pieces properly. We sure as hell don't seem to train for them!

AW may be looking to bring in players to try to solve the issue, but he's been trying that for 4 years and it hasn't worked. Look how many CB's he's been through (in itself not a good sign in the position where stability is needed most). I think your suggested solution almost justifies my question - because I am far from convinced that its an issue of personnel. I believe it to be an issue of having a proper defensive coach, and playing more effectively as a team when it comes to defend.

So I think my question still stands..

[Darth Vela]

As always - a logical argument, but I'm not sure I reach quite the same conclusion. The team's defensive vulnerability - particularly to set pieces - could be seen by a child. I'm not sure I have seen any comments demonstrating his acknowledgment that we do not utilise our offensive set pieces properly. We sure as hell don't seem to train for them!

AW may be looking to bring in players to try to solve the issue, but he's been trying that for 4 years and it hasn't worked. Look how many CB's he's been through (in itself not a good sign in the position where stability is needed most). I think your suggested solution almost justifies my question - because I am far from convinced that its an issue of personnel. I believe it to be an issue of having a proper defensive coach, and playing more effectively as a team when it comes to defend.

So I think my question still stands..

Bugger, could have sworn I'd already replied to this, see if I can remember what I said.

I see the problem as being a lack of 'gamecraft' as much as anything else i.e. knowing when to sit a little deeper and defend like your life depended on it and knowing when to stream forwards, as well as a bit of a weakness on set-pieces. Experienced players tend to have better gamecraft than youngsters and this is the kind of mentality we need more of in our squad, more experience will help the mental side of the game imo. If we do that and spend some time on the training ground trying to learn how to defend a set-piece then we'll be set up nicely (although I'm more sceptical about us actually working on things in training personally...).

It's either the balance of the personnel is off (in terms of mentality, we've got the talent more or less covered) imo or else there really is a deeper rot in the club and the fact we get so close to winning trophies is something of a minor miracle. I think it's worth asking the question when we fail so emphatically at roughly the same point every season, it's not a coincidence and given that this failure is far worse than before as it was mostly our first 11 failing miserably so it will probably engender a bigger clearout in the summer. As you say, if we can't freshen it up with personnel then we're pretty screwed as there won't be sweeping changes in the style or training system.

[IBK]

Good points DV - but how do you explain that we had the requisite 'gamecraft' to arrive in March with our seaon very much intact, but then lost it thereafter?

When the mentality was right, but then wasn't, this to me would suggest that it is a question of fighting spirit or mentality. I accept that relevant experience may serve to help cope with pressure - but when you look at the fact that we had the ability to beat Manure in the middle of our disastrous run in (and I struggle to believe that that was solely down to the 'pressure' being off), to me you are looking at players who are treating the 'big games' differently from the so-called bankers. We saw this in the CC final - the beginning of the rot, and I feel that too many of our pampered players felt sorry for themselves/did not show up subsequently.

I am convinced that at least part of this problem is having mercenaries or pure 'professionals' of the type AW prefers, rather than players who realise what it means to play for the club; how much it means to the fans; a feeling of a common, rather than a purely selfish cause; an identity.

And while I agree with Letters that 'loyalty' is a thing of the past. Manure have shown season after season, that you can build the above attributes into your foreign contingent.

So we are back to my OP, and whether AW, with his background, really understands this (or has understood it up to this point). Because you can adopt a scientific; stats-based; professorial approach to the game and your signings - but the beauty of football is that passion; motivation; identity will make up the marging between winning and being an also ran.


PS Then again - if the rumours of Viera coming back in a coaching role turn out to be correct, maybe this penny has finally dropped for wenger.

[fari]

wow dude...you made some good points there. seems like you have really thought dispassionately and objectively about the situation. sometimes it's hard for us fans to do so. i too would like to see paddy v back at the club although what exactly his role would be remains to be seen (is he coming to coach youngsters or help with the 1st team???)

[IBK]

Another point that I think has been missed, is that for all his experience, AW simply hasn't faced this situation before. A situation where his methods/vision hasn't worked and he is under unprecedented pressure to deliver to the expectations of a big club (even though those expectations may be his own, more than the board's).

Monaco and Grampus 8 would not have brought this pressure. Prior to 2005 he was (SAF excepted) top of the tree. Post 2005 he could, until now, have been excused by virtue of his need to re-build.

He is now exposed, and must be feeling disillusioned and perhaps nonplussed as to how a team on which he has lavished so much effort and belief, and that undoubtedly had the footballing ability to succeed, failed so spectacularly. For me, it really isn't difficult to imagine him on the shakiest ground that he has been on, in terms of his own understanding of how to address the team's problems. All managers can bring in players. The big question is what AW is capable of doing in other areas - and whether he truly knows what to do. Because this ain't happened to him before.