Yeah. What part tripped you up?Originally Posted by Suarez Is Boss
Yeah. What part tripped you up?
That I should feel the need to?
I have already conflated into a succinct paragraph on here at least once, I remember once specifically arguing with northbanknutter, where I went through things in some detail. I'm not sitting here and doing it again; if people want to find out about it then they can do it for themselves.
It would have been quicker to type a quick summary than type the posts saying you're not going to.
I want to know what you think.
Serious SIB scares me.
Not everything is about money you know.
priceless.
The Sun such a scummy paper and to say this is a bit tastless tbh.
Look. It's really not that much effort to type out a paragraph. If you want to have a go, please do. I really do have no time for this "it'd take too much effort" approach - because do you know what I think about people who pull shit like that? I think they're a bunch of fucking charlatans that actually don't have a clue about what they're arguing about and so are avoiding it.
And there's no doubt there are a lot of these new scousers and Liverpool fans who know it's fashionable to take the extreme side of the Liverpool argument. I do get that - super fans, well done to them. But when there's a discussion on it and you're trying to argue that it's laughable to even contemplate a bunch of football fans (not necessarily those dead) should accept a fraction of blame for an event, I'm going to need a proper explanation. Otherwise, I'm immediately thinking 'full of shit'.
I actually agree with you.
With the police specifically, it isn't just that Duckenfield, an inexperienced officer in dealing with a football match, panicked an opened the exit gate, for which in a natural bottleneck which is what the Leppings Lane turnstiles were like meant that there was always going to be a surge of people in the central pen, but that even after they (and him especially) had realised their mistake they didn't do anything to try and mend the situation.
In opening the gate they defied various stewards who knew what would happen should they open the gate. They had changed the procedures dealing with slowly getting fans to get the the stadium, which combined with a problem on the M62 meant there was already a surge of people outside the ground; one shown time and again not to be especially rowdy, aggressive or out of the ordinary, but the sheer numbers were starting to cause problems. As I say, it was a natural bottleneck, once in you couldn't get out. There are even questions as to why a bigger fanbase would be given a smaller end of the ground with far more archaic infrastructure- the answers being geographically it was easier.
Once the gate had been opened they didn't make any attempt to direct fans into the adjacent pens which were almost empty but continued to allow them to go into the already overcrowded central pen. CCTV has shown that there wasn't a rush and fans simply walked through what was a dark tunnel into the centre. There was plenty of time for them to take control and diffuse the situation.
When it was becoming obvious that there was something wrong - Duckenfield was inside the police box in clear line of sight to the end in question and continued to do nothing. There are still questions as to what happened to the CCTV tapes at this time which were conveniently stolen. Even though they had a clear view of what was going on they continued to do nothing. By the time the game had started it was already a disaster, but still there was no leadership or guidance from the top and the police on the ground thought it was a pitch invasion and hooliganism, hence there are many reports of people being pushed back into the pen by police regardless of what they were seeing for themselves. Even by the time people had spilled out onto the pitch, the police formed barricades to try and stop them from making their way away from the crush. The only calls for more officers were to help shore up the barricade, not to go and help anyone. By the time ambulances arrived, they still thought they were dealing with an invasion and only allowed one ambulance on the pitch, despite there being two dozen outside the ground.
And despite seeing all of this and ordering the gate to be opened, Duckenfield openly lied and so started the cover up. The triumvirate of police, government and media went into action. And as we now have it confirmed, statements were altered on a massive level. Even the bodies housed in the gym were treated like criminals, the families questioned as if they were suspects and blood taken from children to test for alcohol levels.
But that it just the police, without getting into the fact the stadium didn't even have a safety certificate, the 3:15pm cut off and how there was very nearly the same incident a year before at the same ground.
And ever since then there has been no culpability from the police, and why it simply isn't a case that it was one gate and from there it was unavoidable. Had it been a case that he made a mistake and tried to rectify it from the start, then it may be a different issue, but they didn't, they compounded the situation and went in on themselves in order to blame the fans.
And I know by now that isn't particularly succinct or brief, but I'm a waffler.... although I didn't think I typed that much...
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