When's the last time you've been this pessimistic before a game?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I don't agree, the game has changed but a winner is a winner...and those players hate losing. Barca hate losing you can see it from their reaction when their behind, likewise Real, Man City, Chelsea.....they react badly to losing and sometimes react stupidly (we use to).

Nowadays we really don't seem overly bothered, there's no fight, non show of annoyance or anger....nothing really.

Not games i have watched. I have seen yaya toure simile after losses, Seen few Barca players do the same, see a few madrid players too. it happens maybe its a foreign thing but it happens.

Who cares if they smile on camera its what they do in the next game thats important. So they don't look dissapointed when the come off so what. their reaction is not for the fans its for themselves. they don't need to show anything to the fans.

As long as they get in the dressing room and done wrong thats enough for them.

[Letters]

Yeah he's really going to BS about that isn't he.

So you decide whether he's BSing or not depending on whether he's saying something you've already decided he believes. Fair enough

[Olivier's xmas twist]

You always moan about what a bad loser Wenger is and what a dick he makes of himself when we lose (which he does). When it suits your argument you say we don't care. Clearly our players care. Do they sit around for days afterwards in tears, not wanting to see anyone? No. Do players of any club do that? No.

I think our players care enough, they're just not good enough (to compete with the top few, we're better than most other teams)

Exactly their is a diffrence in not been good enough and not caring.

[GP]

Logic

[Özim]

You always moan about what a bad loser Wenger is and what a dick he makes of himself when we lose (which he does). When it suits your argument you say we don't care. Clearly our players care. Do they sit around for days afterwards in tears, not wanting to see anyone? No. Do players of any club do that? No.

I think our players care enough, they're just not good enough (to compete with the top few, we're better than most other teams)

He's a bad loser alright, however he never does jack sh*t about it....so it's pretty meaningless...it's OK stamping your little feet however if you then don't react to the issues either you've got a short term memory or it doesn't bother you enough.

I'm sorry but the guy is a loser in my eyes, he settles for 4th place every season and is thrilled with it, that's a losers mentality if ever I've seen one.

Our players are not good enough that's true, but then the Graham teams weren't filled with stars and yet they beat superior teams and won stuff due to sheer desire and leadership.

[Letters]

Vermaelen isn't even a well disciplined defender so why the hell you would make him captain I don't know. A captain should not only be a player who is going to be a regular (and deserves to be) but also someone who clearly shows leadership ability, I'm not sure Vermaelen ever has. The problem is we don't really have any leaders as Wenger doesn't seem to think it's an important trait to have for a player.

Before we appointed him I thought he'd be a decent captain. Plenty on here agreed.
As for the players Wenger signs, a few of them are or have been captains for their countries...

[Olivier's xmas twist]

I really don't think we're that bothered, I watched Cazorla after our loss the other week and the guy was laughing with his pal, he's not the only one how many of our players actually look dejected after defeat? I expect some annoyance at losing, not the "we lost oh well" attitude we seem to have.

So what. Who cares. End of the day Santi will deliver and excellent performance in his next game thats all that matters, who care he did not cry cause we lost.

[Özim]

Not games i have watched. I have seen yaya toure simile after losses, Seen few Barca players do the same, see a few madrid players too. it happens maybe its a foreign thing but it happens.

Who cares if they smile on camera its what they do in the next game thats important. So they don't look dissapointed when the come off so what. their reaction is not for the fans its for themselves. they don't need to show anything to the fans.

As long as they get in the dressing room and done wrong thats enough for them.

Well they never react to defeat so they're hardly that bothered, you don't see them chasing every ball in the next game or working even harder...it's the same old sh*t every match.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

He's a bad loser alright, however he never does jack sh*t about it....so it's pretty meaningless...it's OK stamping your little feet however if you then don't react to the issues either you've got a short term memory or it doesn't bother you enough.

I'm sorry but the guy is a loser in my eyes, he settles for 4th place every season and is thrilled with it, that's a losers mentality if ever I've seen one.

Our players are not good enough that's true, but then the Graham teams weren't filled with stars and yet they beat superior teams and won stuff due to sheer desire and leadership.

Yeah because Wenger never won stuff

[Özim]

Before we appointed him I thought he'd be a decent captain. Plenty on here agreed.
As for the players Wenger signs, a few of them are or have been captains for their countries...

Just because they are captain for their countries it doesn't mean that much, if they are captains for big nations that have a large choice fair enough, but for smaller nations with few quality players the better known players playing in bigger leagues are usually captains but not necessarily on merit.