Was Man United a watershed?

[Olivier's xmas twist]

we're not that bad really, in the context of this country. we're good (not right now but we will improve from this but just not enough to stay as we were) but is that good enough?

wenger is still a good manager, good enough for a top six finish but there is a tendency to call anyone outside the top 3/4 as shit. i'm not sure if people mean literally shit or they mean he isn't good enough for the expectations a club like ours generates - if the former then i can't even take that seriously but if the latter then yes, I think we're 'shit'; our standards should be and can be attainable with the resources we have.

Spot on.

[Kano]

It's all relative, I think most people mean in terms of our stature......we could be a lot better than we are, we're a very big club historically and ultimately moved to the new stadium to compete with the biggest clubs.

yeah then i'd go with that myself. calling us 'shit' always sounds so harsh, given that being any sort of manager in the game is a massive ball ache. for a club of our standing and history as you say, we should and could be doing better than the road we've fallen on.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

People talk about billionaires etc, but the stadium was supposed to have been built to compete with the best, that includes Barca and Real who have always spent loads and spent loads before we built our stadium.

Yes in a way your right, the stadium i deal was thought of way way before the billionaires came into the game. It was around the times Dein wanted to move to Wembley.

So i guess at that time, i guess the idea we could compete would have been right. No one could have known the clubs would be sold to these rich dudes.

[Özim]

Yes in a way your right, the stadium i deal was thought of way way before the billionaires came into the game. It was around the times Dein wanted to move to Wembley.

So i guess at that time, i guess the idea we could compete would have been right. No one could have known the clubs would be sold to these rich dudes.

Real and Barca were around then though and spent large amounts even then, so I'm not sure how competing with them has changed.

[Kano]

Yes in a way your right, the stadium i deal was thought of way way before the billionaires came into the game. It was around the times Dein wanted to move to Wembley.

So i guess at that time, i guess the idea we could compete would have been right. No one could have known the clubs would be sold to these rich dudes.

ultimately the point was to grow us into a 'superclub' to sit alongside the other giants in europe. that is a different competitive world to the 'old' arsenal usually competing, having our little periods of success and remaining a stable club. walking into the world of the big boys, they should not really complain about others trying to muscle in using different methods. if you wanna be big it means ruthlessness on and off the pitch as the others already holding that status do not want to share and are always looking to get one over you.

the model is working, there is money available but internal politics - inclusive of wenger - means we are stuck in limbo trying to be the 'old' arsenal financially under the pretence we are heading for the big time.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Real and Barca were around then though and spent large amounts even then, so I'm not sure how competing with them has changed.

My point was at the time, it looked like the move would help us compete with them, Thats what the likes of Fizman, Dein and Co saw.

They never saw this as a money making scheme. The hope was we be successful by now. Obviously Its not gone that way for obvious reason.

[Özil's Panoramic View]

Rubbish! We are god awful, heading in the wrong direction and the sooner this is realised and acted upon, the sooner we might make an about turn and start heading in the right direction.

The quality of the EPL is nowhere close to what it used to be, most of the teams are utter shit. Yet we are struggling to show some semblance of being a half decent team.

Luckily for us last season, Spuds faltered in the latter stages, allowing us to limp across the line in 3rd place. This season, 3rd place is definitely off the cards. I'll give Wenger enough credit and say he recognizes that much, so his aim will be 4th place. It is pretty much achievable but I get the feeling that towards the end of the season, our fate will be dependent on some other team bottling their shot at CL footie, gifting us that much coveted CL spot.

[Özim]

My point was at the time, it looked like the move would help us compete with them, Thats what the likes of Fizman, Dein and Co saw.

They never saw this as a money making scheme. The hope was we be successful by now. Obviously Its not gone that way for obvious reason.

Maybe, but in order to be successful you do have to invest in the team....we only invest some of the money we make from players sales.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

ultimately the point was to grow us into a 'superclub' to sit alongside the other giants in europe. that is a different competitive world to the 'old' arsenal usually competing, having our little periods of success and remaining a stable club. walking into the world of the big boys, they should not really complain about others trying to muscle in using different methods. if you wanna be big it means ruthlessness on and off the pitch as the others already holding that status do not want to share and are always looking to get one over you.

the model is working, there is money available but internal politics - inclusive of wenger - means we are stuck in limbo trying to be the 'old' arsenal financially under the pretence we are heading for the big time.

True.

Though my point was the Vision of Dein and Co back then would have been diffrent to whats happening now. Like This was in the pipeline ages ago. So they would not have been thinking about Billionaires.

I would not even say project youth was the plan when this was decided.

[Cripps_orig]

Rubbish! We are god awful, heading in the wrong direction and the sooner this is realised and acted upon, the sooner we might make an about turn and start heading in the right direction.

The quality of the EPL is nowhere close to what it used to be, most of the teams are utter shit. Yet we are struggling to show some semblance of being a half decent team.

Luckily for us last season, Spuds faltered in the latter stages, allowing us to limp across the line in 3rd place. This season, 3rd place is definitely off the cards. I'll give Wenger enough credit and say he recognizes that much, so his aim will be 4th place. It is pretty much achievable but I get the feeling that towards the end of the season, our fate will be dependent on some other team bottling their shot at CL footie, gifting us that much coveted CL spot.

4th place in a way is out of our hands.

We all know how our season will go. It will be stop start through out, littered with shite performances, couple of decent wins etc etc The usual shit

However if Spuds dont bottle it this time as they did last time then they will get 4th piss easy. Whether or not we finish 4th is down to if they bottle it again