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Thread: Match Reaction v Aston Villa

  1. #451
    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fakeyank View Post
    Yes, I'd like to see details of where you have information of AW's hands being tied by the board in terms of signing players. Links? Videos? And what is the bloodbath you are talking about? Are you referring to the fight between Usmanov and Kroenke to takeover Arsenal? If that is what you are inferring, show how any of that has affected AW's ability to run this club footballistically? Again.. links or valid quotes from AW or the board members would be appreciated. Thanks!
    No, I was referring to the directors and shareholders who were pushed out during the disposal of the club to Kroenke. Obviously these events occurred.

    Why are you changing the subject? You speculated that Ferguson would not dance in the way you accuse Wenger of dancing. I showed you his dance routine. Now you want video evidence of Wenger having his hands tied by the board. Well of course the board doesn't video Wenger being tied up hence the ongoing debate amongst the fans as to where the money might be and why it hasn't been spent.

    On the one side I base my arguments on the fact Kroenke has invested nothing in the club, all his expenditure went to the shareholders. Is this in dispute? I base my arguments on the fact we have been making profits through players sales thereby increasing a bottom line that benefits most those whose earnings are not capped by a declared salary. An argument that tallies precisely with the whole concept of a financial investment - less money in than the money taken out.

    Contrary to that argument runs the idea Wenger, for whatever reason, is responsible for limiting the club's expenditure and enriching third parties. I say idea because there's no way of knowing Wenger's genuine agenda as it's his job to remain within the confines set by those who own the club, unless Arsenal is the unique exception to this rule. If indeed the club is an exception then another assumption has to be made, that Kroenke would invest half a billion and then relinquish control. Watching his determination to exclude a 30% shareholder from proceedings it would seem odd for him to cede authority to a zero percent shareholder. Even if this strange argument represents the reality behind the scenes, there are no publicly available facts to confirm it. Which is why I mention another fact, the fact you deal is supposition and speculation and not much else.

    So does Wenger have his hands tied? Not that this question has anything to do with the original argument. We don't know for sure but the facts strongly suggest this is the case. To suppose otherwise would be to suggest Wenger wants to see his top players leaving, wants to be uncompetitive, wants to continue falling further behind the big players. This is absurd, but so are many of the charges raised against Wenger. But there's a finer distinction. Does he have his hands tied willingly or unwillingly? That would be the better question. Maybe he believes the board's agenda can bear fruit. So maybe he's a willing participant. The point is, we're dealing in speculation here - not facts. And even then there's very little weight given to another important fact when people queue to heap accusations on Wenger. He's an employee. It's surprising how often this needs to be mentioned. He is not at liberty to simply speak his mind on the inner workings of the club. Which employee is at liberty to do that?

    So I'll say it again. I'm dealing in what has happened and what can be confirmed. You are speculating. And when one of your speculations gets knocked over you breeze onto the next one. Which means in the end you will prevail because I'm limited to dealing with what we know whilst you can just keep conjuring fresh objections out of thin air.
    Für eure Sicherheit

  2. #452
    ***** Niall_Quinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiltord's Winner View Post
    It's a bit like one of those suicide bombers who blows himself up prematurely.
    Für eure Sicherheit

  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    It's a bit like one of those suicide bombers who blows himself up prematurely.
    right that's enough. ach's cousin might have been controversial but he was a good guy.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    No, I was referring to the directors and shareholders who were pushed out during the disposal of the club to Kroenke. Obviously these events occurred.

    Why are you changing the subject? You speculated that Ferguson would not dance in the way you accuse Wenger of dancing. I showed you his dance routine. Now you want video evidence of Wenger having his hands tied by the board. Well of course the board doesn't video Wenger being tied up hence the ongoing debate amongst the fans as to where the money might be and why it hasn't been spent.

    On the one side I base my arguments on the fact Kroenke has invested nothing in the club, all his expenditure went to the shareholders. Is this in dispute? I base my arguments on the fact we have been making profits through players sales thereby increasing a bottom line that benefits most those whose earnings are not capped by a declared salary. An argument that tallies precisely with the whole concept of a financial investment - less money in than the money taken out.

    Contrary to that argument runs the idea Wenger, for whatever reason, is responsible for limiting the club's expenditure and enriching third parties. I say idea because there's no way of knowing Wenger's genuine agenda as it's his job to remain within the confines set by those who own the club, unless Arsenal is the unique exception to this rule. If indeed the club is an exception then another assumption has to be made, that Kroenke would invest half a billion and then relinquish control. Watching his determination to exclude a 30% shareholder from proceedings it would seem odd for him to cede authority to a zero percent shareholder. Even if this strange argument represents the reality behind the scenes, there are no publicly available facts to confirm it. Which is why I mention another fact, the fact you deal is supposition and speculation and not much else.

    So does Wenger have his hands tied? Not that this question has anything to do with the original argument. We don't know for sure but the facts strongly suggest this is the case. To suppose otherwise would be to suggest Wenger wants to see his top players leaving, wants to be uncompetitive, wants to continue falling further behind the big players. This is absurd, but so are many of the charges raised against Wenger. But there's a finer distinction. Does he have his hands tied willingly or unwillingly? That would be the better question. Maybe he believes the board's agenda can bear fruit. So maybe he's a willing participant. The point is, we're dealing in speculation here - not facts. And even then there's very little weight given to another important fact when people queue to heap accusations on Wenger. He's an employee. It's surprising how often this needs to be mentioned. He is not at liberty to simply speak his mind on the inner workings of the club. Which employee is at liberty to do that?

    So I'll say it again. I'm dealing in what has happened and what can be confirmed. You are speculating. And when one of your speculations gets knocked over you breeze onto the next one. Which means in the end you will prevail because I'm limited to dealing with what we know whilst you can just keep conjuring fresh objections out of thin air.
    It's better to burn out, than to fade away.

  5. #455
    Member Olivier's xmas twist's Avatar
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    Wow this thread has gone way of course

    GW match Threads , best there is, best there was and the best there ever will be.
    "I really like Arsenal. Do you really like Arsenal, or only Arsenal with trophies?" - Dennis Bergkamp.
    "Which Arsenal do they want back, the one Arsene created?" - Tony Adams.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    Why are you changing the subject? You speculated that Ferguson would not dance in the way you accuse Wenger of dancing. I showed you his dance routine. Now you want video evidence of Wenger having his hands tied by the board. Well of course the board doesn't video Wenger being tied up hence the ongoing debate amongst the fans as to where the money might be and why it hasn't been spent.
    Like I said in my post earlier, Ferguson is getting what he wants, he's achieving success, getting money to spend, the Glazers aren't comprimising his methods...so why exactly would he have a problem with that?

    Wenger is somewhat different, he's not winning anything but still happy....whereas Ferguson's stategy of being successful has remained the same during the years he's managed, Wenger's has changed, why would a manager who was once upon a time winning suddenly be happy with getting 4th place every season......could it be due to the remuneration he's getting?
    Last edited by Özim; 27-11-2012 at 05:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ItsMe View Post
    the

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    It's better to burn out, than to fade away.

  9. #459
    Goat Balls fakeyank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niall_Quinn View Post
    No, I was referring to the directors and shareholders who were pushed out during the disposal of the club to Kroenke. Obviously these events occurred.

    Why are you changing the subject? You speculated that Ferguson would not dance in the way you accuse Wenger of dancing. I showed you his dance routine. Now you want video evidence of Wenger having his hands tied by the board. Well of course the board doesn't video Wenger being tied up hence the ongoing debate amongst the fans as to where the money might be and why it hasn't been spent.

    On the one side I base my arguments on the fact Kroenke has invested nothing in the club, all his expenditure went to the shareholders. Is this in dispute? I base my arguments on the fact we have been making profits through players sales thereby increasing a bottom line that benefits most those whose earnings are not capped by a declared salary. An argument that tallies precisely with the whole concept of a financial investment - less money in than the money taken out.

    Contrary to that argument runs the idea Wenger, for whatever reason, is responsible for limiting the club's expenditure and enriching third parties. I say idea because there's no way of knowing Wenger's genuine agenda as it's his job to remain within the confines set by those who own the club, unless Arsenal is the unique exception to this rule. If indeed the club is an exception then another assumption has to be made, that Kroenke would invest half a billion and then relinquish control. Watching his determination to exclude a 30% shareholder from proceedings it would seem odd for him to cede authority to a zero percent shareholder. Even if this strange argument represents the reality behind the scenes, there are no publicly available facts to confirm it. Which is why I mention another fact, the fact you deal is supposition and speculation and not much else.

    So does Wenger have his hands tied? Not that this question has anything to do with the original argument. We don't know for sure but the facts strongly suggest this is the case. To suppose otherwise would be to suggest Wenger wants to see his top players leaving, wants to be uncompetitive, wants to continue falling further behind the big players. This is absurd, but so are many of the charges raised against Wenger. But there's a finer distinction. Does he have his hands tied willingly or unwillingly? That would be the better question. Maybe he believes the board's agenda can bear fruit. So maybe he's a willing participant. The point is, we're dealing in speculation here - not facts. And even then there's very little weight given to another important fact when people queue to heap accusations on Wenger. He's an employee. It's surprising how often this needs to be mentioned. He is not at liberty to simply speak his mind on the inner workings of the club. Which employee is at liberty to do that?

    So I'll say it again. I'm dealing in what has happened and what can be confirmed. You are speculating. And when one of your speculations gets knocked over you breeze onto the next one. Which means in the end you will prevail because I'm limited to dealing with what we know whilst you can just keep conjuring fresh objections out of thin air.
    Yes, I am speculating that SAF will not be a puppet like AW if he is not given the resources. This speculation comes from strong evidence. Much like how you call an election based on facts or know about the area. What dance routine you talking about? You showed that he backs the owners just like Wenger.. why wouldnt SAF back the owners? He gets what he wants from the owners in terms of doing his job on the pitch... based on what you say, AW isnt being backed by the owners on the football pitch!

    So what exactly is your expectation from Stan? And why should he put in his personal money in player transfers when its clearly not needed? We all know he is not a die hard Arsenal fan. He bought a business, a sound financial business which generates a lot of income by itself. There is no evidence that he has held that income from AW and not allowed AW to invest in the team. It has repeatedly been said by Stan, PHW and Gazidis that AW will have funds that he needs to buy good players. So what is your problem with the board exactly?

    And you can blame Stan all you want but he has only been a major player at AFC since the beginning of last season. Our shower of shite under Wenger has been going on longer than that. You think a highly successful businessman like Stan or millionaires like PHW wont sanction an extra 1 million quid for Shwarzer or Alonso? These guys are rich because they have taken calculated risks in their businesses. You are telling me they are happy they did not spend 2 million quid when that couldve been the difference between winning the league v/s not winning the league. Mind you, winning the league would mean more money from shirt sales, new glory hunting fans etc. You think these guys are penny pinching 10-15 million quid off of AW's transfer budget when that extra 10-15 million dollar could mean a successful season.. which in turn gives us a strong hand negotiating better contracts. If we had won the league in the last 2-3 years, the deal from Emirates couldve been much more than 150 million.

    As for player sales, all player sales before being made final are run through AW... FACT! In fact AW has personally gone to the board to reduce the price on a player so the player can leave (Fabregas)... FACT! So where again in this scenario are the board in the wrong?

    I say idea because there's no way of knowing Wenger's genuine agenda as it's his job to remain within the confines set by those who own the club, unless Arsenal is the unique exception to this rule.
    This is true! Here, I expect my manager who is the only manager in PL history to go unbeaten in a whole season to have more ambition and most importantly have a feel for what the clubs fans expect of him and the team. Our manager, on the other hand is more bothered about 4th place trophy than actually winning something!

    And no, AW does not want his best players leaving. BUT his best players want to leave him. Every top player who have left us has talked about bringing in top players in the transfer window to be more competitive. AW, being the all controlling man at AFC regarding football does not like their opinion and shows them the door. This is a FACT.. look at what RVP, Nasri, Adebayor, Gallas, Henry have said about bringing in players to the club.

    Question is.. why is Wenger being such a douche? Well Wenger has this dream of winning the league with youngsters, playing HIS style of football, believing in HIS bullshit philosophy. The only problem is that he has failed and he is a stubborn prick who is going back to the 'tried and failed' formula again and again despite the fact that football has moved on. He is living in 1998 while we are 14 years ahead!

    He is not at liberty to simply speak his mind on the inner workings of the club. Which employee is at liberty to do that?
    No employee is.. but AW is not just a normal employee at Arsenal. He is a powerful man if he can tell the 'money hungry' board to take less money for a player, design the dressing rooms and hire his own boss! That brings us to the point.. why is he wasting his legacy at a club where he gets no support footballistically? He can surely secure a nice job at a club where he will both get the money he gets and also resources to be a winner... its just common sense that most normal men would quit their crappy jobs with good pay to an awesome job with good pay. I hope this is not a speculation as well... coz most ppl usually do that. FACT!

    Crap job + good salary < awesome job + good salary
    Arsene Wenger, the only football manager that got paid 8 million quid to do nothing but sit on his arse..

  10. #460
    Member AKBapologist's Avatar
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    "So what's your problem with the board already"


    What a muppet.

    Any other top four club would have sacked Wenger by now for lack of ambition alone and you wondering why people think the board and owner are fucking this club.

    sent from a fone

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