FUCK OFF NOW WENGER! YOU'RE A JOKE MAN.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Arsene Wenger admits he has no choice but to question himself as he looks to bring success back to Arsenal.

The Frenchman is facing one of the biggest tests of his 16-year Gunners career following the Capital One Cup defeat by Bradford in midweek, especially as their Premier League form has been indifferent at best.

Arsenal chief executive Ivan Gazidis has apologised to supporters for the recent setbacks and fans' groups say he pledged to make "significant funds" available to Wenger to strengthen the squad in January.Wenger has long championed the club's drive to emulate their successes of the past by living within their own means after moving from Highbury and speaking prior to the midweek defeat to Bradford, he told fourfourtwo.com about the demands on him to succeed.

"You can only be successful if you question yourself, because the game has become bigger and better," Wenger said.

"With teams like Chelsea and Man City coming in, I think we have to do what we do even better.

"You can only be good in life if you do what you believe is right.

"We have always managed the club with its own resources, given a chance to young players and developed a style of play that we think is right. After it works, it gives us a consistency at the top level that develops a sense of trust.

"We may have a lack of experience in winning trophies recently, but we are always at the top and very close to winning the championship or winning the Champions League."

http://www1.skysports.com/football/n...estion-himself

[IBK]

You are so focused on Wenger you can't see the point. Swap Wenger for any name you want, the philosophy of this club isn't changing any time soon. Trying to paint the executives and owners as Wenger's puppets doesn't take into account who is doing well at Arsenal and who's suffering. There's a hierarchy of rewards with the fans at the bottom of the pile propping it up. Anyone who thinks the weight will be lifted when Wenger leaves is going to be crushed. It's not just the greed of the owners, it seems to me the players have fully realised what's happening are have found every conceivable way to milk the situation for maximum return with minimum effort. The next manager in has a hell of a job on his hands and I can think of maybe two names who MIGHT have a prayer, Ferguson or Mourinho. Both are impossible so whit Arsenal what you see is what you get for the medium term at least regardless of who comes in. Or put another way, change the pilots all you want but the monkeys don't travel with the fans anyway. They are on a completely different trip.

I think you've got me wrong. By focussing on Wenger, I am not excusing the board. At all. I don't happen to think that Wenger leaving will be a panacea for the club's ill's - because I simply don't trust the board or an owner who doesn't give a fuck about anything but increasing his balance sheet to a) make the right appointment as his successor, and b) provide him with the support he needs to bring the club to greatness. The 2 main driving forces behind the club - Danny Fizman and David Dein (whom I am describing as a driving force, not a saint), have gone, and what we are left with are toothless old men; a CEO puppet and a dyed in the wool corporate emperor who shouldn't have come anywhere near our club.

Its a nightmare.

But its a nightmare to which Wenger has contributed more than anyone else. He has clearly bought into the corporate imperative that now governs our club - I suspect as much because it cements his indespensibility to, and power over the club - because no other manager could deliver year on year profits in the manner that he has done.

And on the football side, Wenger has created a one man empire. A situation where he can indulge all of his schemes; fail to heed the most obvious of warning signs; peddle a methodology that is increasingly out of touch with the modern game and breed the current; anaemic; gutless bunch of prima donna's that stink up the pitch every other game. I don't blame Wenger principally for not winning silverware for so long. I blame him most of all for taking the resources that the club has, and spunking them up the wall on mediocre overpaid punts - while allowing his crown jewels to be sold year on year. The having teh audacity to blame the team's decline on the money coming into the game when we have the second highest revenues of any English club, and the fourth highest wage bill.

While this might coincide ideally with the aims of the money men to whom our club is beholden, the idea that AW does not direct, or at the very worst collude with this is utterly fanciful.

[Globalgunner]

Wenger is at fault for believing his own myth and not constantly striving to improve himself. He believed that Chelsea and Uniteds millions were a caveat that would protect him from criticism as the fans would continue to buy the bull that we simply cannot compete. (This btw is not true, an exceptional manager can beat them on the pitch w/o having to match them financially). The fact is he will not bea able to beat them consistently but at least muster enough skill and talent to do it on a consistent enough basis to win an occasional title and and a frequent cup of some sort. What we have seen however is that Wenger is not an exceptional manager anymore and City has emerged to squeeze his options even more. Moreover clubs like Spuds Everton and Liverpool have shown that by boxing clever you can get close to the big spenders while only spending a 3rd of their totals

Fans can see through his mind tricks because it all plays out on the pitch. Exasperating player purchases and team gutting player sales. the club has become no more than an indulgence for Wenger. NQ and other can wail all they want about the board, but the truth is the board is no longer a financial yoke on our necks. Nobody on the board own any significant shares anymore except SK and Usmanov so they are not reaping any great dividends anymore. The great payout was in 2010 when eveybody sold to Kroenke, since then our money has gone mostly on players wages to absolute dross. We only make dividends when we sell players.

Significantly the better players that leave are mostly not sold against their will, they leave because their ambitions are no longer being met at Arsenal. Who wants to hang around to be a pawn in Wenger`s flights of fantasy?. A man who is constantly waiting for vindication, who thinks that if he can just win 1 CL. It will justify every garbage season of implosion that has gone before. He wont win the CL because you need at least 3 exceptional players in a team with another 8-12 good players to do this. even Chelsea who fluked it last year have this combination and would have won it 2ce if Drogba was not an Ass and Terry a slipshod mong. A team need to be led by a purposeful manager who sees the game with utmost clarity not one who believes that each failure is simply a combination of bad luck and misfortune.

We have been badly managed by Wenger for several years now. Yes he has done well for us early on and we would not be the club we are with global recognition if he had not made the early star signings like Henry Pires et al, but even then a better manager would IMO have done greater things with these talents. He has taken advantage of our appreciation to entwine himself indistinguishably from the club. To a point where the club and he are essentially the same thing. This is the man who is now being portrayed as a VICTIM?. He craves and gets absolute control and after getting it should he be absolved from the crap team we now see before us. The club has been more than appreciative by paying him way beyond his peers or his talents. He simply needs to go. I have no doubt that even invisible Sam will see that he will gain nothing by keeping Wenger after this year and possibly will risk the essence and status of the club worldwide. Fans are disgruntled ALL OVER THE WORLD, not just on the stands. The advertisers know this too. Another calamitous year will not help our prospects when all those deals come up for renewal in a year or so. But imagine what those companies will think if Pep is acknowledged as taking over.

At least we wont be having a manager less astute than those currently at Swansea, Norwich and Bradford.

[LDG]

Not really no, Grant and Benitez were/are short term, the rest came in in the hope of success but failed, so they got sacked, they didn't just come in for one season to pick up a pay check, Scolari, Hiddink etc had repuations to protect as well after all they had achieved a decent amount in the game...the Russian sacked them but I'm sure that wasn't their plan.

Who would you like to see come in Zimm?

Serious question. I'm flummuxed, tbh. I like the idea of Gaurdiola, and I could see it happening, if, and only if the board allowed him time and money to do the job....I'm really not keen on a "Rogers" or a "Moyes"....you really have to have something special to take on a big job, and it's not just about managing a team...it's all the politics, media, marketing, charisma and savvy that somes with it....

Difficult.

[Olivier's xmas twist]

Who would you like to see come in Zimm?

Serious question. I'm flummuxed, tbh. I like the idea of Gaurdiola, and I could see it happening, if, and only if the board allowed him time and money to do the job....I'm really not keen on a "Rogers" or a "Moyes"....you really have to have something special to take on a big job, and it's not just about managing a team...it's all the politics, media, marketing, charisma and savvy that somes with it....

Difficult.

Sounds like a Jose. As good as he is, just can't stand the media cirus that comes with him. Id like Pep tbh, it would be good to see him build a team outside of spain. He'd bring in his own coaches and get the lads playing his way. The media seem to love him too. Might even bring Cesc back.

Some say Klopp. though i think he could be chav bound tbh.

[Kano]

Not really no, Grant and Benitez were/are short term, the rest came in in the hope of success but failed, so they got sacked, they didn't just come in for one season to pick up a pay check, Scolari, Hiddink etc had repuations to protect as well after all they had achieved a decent amount in the game...the Russian sacked them but I'm sure that wasn't their plan.

if it wasn't their plan then they sure as hell have made it the template for the club for the foreseeable future. NO manager, regardless of the contract they are given when they walk through the door, will be thinking long term. 6 months at best will be their vision as the russian at the club has created a clear cut policy of sacking any manager that he fears will not win a trophy. that's all he cares about because he runs the club as his little toy, only there to show off to his mates the shiny trophies HE has won. I'm pretty sure that is how he see's it too, with little or no credit given to the managers and players because he knows he runs the show from top to bottom. chelsea fans are just as embarrassed about their club as we are about ours at the moment.

[IBK]

Wenger is at fault for believing his own myth and not constantly striving to improve himself. He believed that Chelsea and Uniteds millions were a caveat that would protect him from criticism as the fans would continue to buy the bull that we simply cannot compete. (This btw is not true, an exceptional manager can beat them on the pitch w/o having to match them financially). The fact is he will not bea able to beat them consistently but at least muster enough skill and talent to do it on a consistent enough basis to win an occasional title and and a frequent cup of some sort. What we have seen however is that Wenger is not an exceptional manager anymore and City has emerged to squeeze his options even more. Moreover clubs like Spuds Everton and Liverpool have shown that by boxing clever you can get close to the big spenders while only spending a 3rd of their totals

Fans can see through his mind tricks because it all plays out on the pitch. Exasperating player purchases and team gutting player sales. the club has become no more than an indulgence for Wenger. NQ and other can wail all they want about the board, but the truth is the board is no longer a financial yoke on our necks. Nobody on the board own any significant shares anymore except SK and Usmanov so they are not reaping any great dividends anymore. The great payout was in 2010 when eveybody sold to Kroenke, since then our money has gone mostly on players wages to absolute dross. We only make dividends when we sell players.

Significantly the better players that leave are mostly not sold against their will, they leave because their ambitions are no longer being met at Arsenal. Who wants to hang around to be a pawn in Wenger`s flights of fantasy?. A man who is constantly waiting for vindication, who thinks that if he can just win 1 CL. It will justify every garbage season of implosion that has gone before. He wont win the CL because you need at least 3 exceptional players in a team with another 8-12 good players to do this. even Chelsea who fluked it last year have this combination and would have won it 2ce if Drogba was not an Ass and Terry a slipshod mong. A team need to be led by a purposeful manager who sees the game with utmost clarity not one who believes that each failure is simply a combination of bad luck and misfortune.

We have been badly managed by Wenger for several years now. Yes he has done well for us early on and we would not be the club we are with global recognition if he had not made the early star signings like Henry Pires et al, but even then a better manager would IMO have done greater things with these talents. He has taken advantage of our appreciation to entwine himself indistinguishably from the club. To a point where the club and he are essentially the same thing. This is the man who is now being portrayed as a VICTIM?. He craves and gets absolute control and after getting it should he be absolved from the crap team we now see before us. The club has been more than appreciative by paying him way beyond his peers or his talents. He simply needs to go. I have no doubt that even invisible Sam will see that he will gain nothing by keeping Wenger after this year and possibly will risk the essence and status of the club worldwide. Fans are disgruntled ALL OVER THE WORLD, not just on the stands. The advertisers know this too. Another calamitous year will not help our prospects when all those deals come up for renewal in a year or so. But imagine what those companies will think if Pep is acknowledged as taking over.

At least we wont be having a manager less astute than those currently at Swansea, Norwich and Bradford.

Deserves a reply.

I agree with much of what you say.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

overheard a friend saying he wanted wenger to stay because we're a laughing stock and we wont win anything with him in charge.

we've become that team.

how embarrassing.

please get out now.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think you've got me wrong. By focussing on Wenger, I am not excusing the board. At all. I don't happen to think that Wenger leaving will be a panacea for the club's ill's - because I simply don't trust the board or an owner who doesn't give a fuck about anything but increasing his balance sheet to a) make the right appointment as his successor, and b) provide him with the support he needs to bring the club to greatness. The 2 main driving forces behind the club - Danny Fizman and David Dein (whom I am describing as a driving force, not a saint), have gone, and what we are left with are toothless old men; a CEO puppet and a dyed in the wool corporate emperor who shouldn't have come anywhere near our club.

Its a nightmare.

But its a nightmare to which Wenger has contributed more than anyone else. He has clearly bought into the corporate imperative that now governs our club - I suspect as much because it cements his indespensibility to, and power over the club - because no other manager could deliver year on year profits in the manner that he has done.

And on the football side, Wenger has created a one man empire. A situation where he can indulge all of his schemes; fail to heed the most obvious of warning signs; peddle a methodology that is increasingly out of touch with the modern game and breed the current; anaemic; gutless bunch of prima donna's that stink up the pitch every other game. I don't blame Wenger principally for not winning silverware for so long. I blame him most of all for taking the resources that the club has, and spunking them up the wall on mediocre overpaid punts - while allowing his crown jewels to be sold year on year. The having teh audacity to blame the team's decline on the money coming into the game when we have the second highest revenues of any English club, and the fourth highest wage bill.

While this might coincide ideally with the aims of the money men to whom our club is beholden, the idea that AW does not direct, or at the very worst collude with this is utterly fanciful.

That wasn't a response to you, I was talking to the other guy who believes Wenger is to blame for every problem at the club. But most aren't talking in absolutes so I have no problems agreeing Wenger and the board (whether their motives are identical or not) effectively have the same practical ambitions. To keep the club near enough to the top with the focus on the finances rather than the football. Wenger views that as an achievement, which it is but unfortunately a considerably less impressive return than we've achieved in the past and unacceptable to the fans. Kroenke views it as the surest way to secure a return on investment, which it certainly is and fuck the fans.

The only problem with blaming Wenger for his weird footballing decisions is he's managed to land what the hierarchy at Arsenal considers to be the prize for over a decade, that coveted 4th place money spot. We can speculate our fortunes would be improved if Wenger changed his methods (and it's hard to see how things wouldn't improve from the fan's perspective) but if what he's doing is working year after year then this stubbornness he's accused of might just be another example of prudence and security. Why change a "winning" formula? Bearing in mind their version of winning is very different to ours.

I don't find any of it acceptable, nor do you. But we are fans and we know how much say that entitles us to in the grand scheme.

[Niall_Quinn]

Wenger is at fault for believing his own myth and not constantly striving to improve himself. He believed that Chelsea and Uniteds millions were a caveat that would protect him from criticism as the fans would continue to buy the bull that we simply cannot compete. (This btw is not true, an exceptional manager can beat them on the pitch w/o having to match them financially). The fact is he will not bea able to beat them consistently but at least muster enough skill and talent to do it on a consistent enough basis to win an occasional title and and a frequent cup of some sort. What we have seen however is that Wenger is not an exceptional manager anymore and City has emerged to squeeze his options even more. Moreover clubs like Spuds Everton and Liverpool have shown that by boxing clever you can get close to the big spenders while only spending a 3rd of their totals

Fans can see through his mind tricks because it all plays out on the pitch. Exasperating player purchases and team gutting player sales. the club has become no more than an indulgence for Wenger. NQ and other can wail all they want about the board, but the truth is the board is no longer a financial yoke on our necks. Nobody on the board own any significant shares anymore except SK and Usmanov so they are not reaping any great dividends anymore. The great payout was in 2010 when eveybody sold to Kroenke, since then our money has gone mostly on players wages to absolute dross. We only make dividends when we sell players.

Significantly the better players that leave are mostly not sold against their will, they leave because their ambitions are no longer being met at Arsenal. Who wants to hang around to be a pawn in Wenger`s flights of fantasy?. A man who is constantly waiting for vindication, who thinks that if he can just win 1 CL. It will justify every garbage season of implosion that has gone before. He wont win the CL because you need at least 3 exceptional players in a team with another 8-12 good players to do this. even Chelsea who fluked it last year have this combination and would have won it 2ce if Drogba was not an Ass and Terry a slipshod mong. A team need to be led by a purposeful manager who sees the game with utmost clarity not one who believes that each failure is simply a combination of bad luck and misfortune.

We have been badly managed by Wenger for several years now. Yes he has done well for us early on and we would not be the club we are with global recognition if he had not made the early star signings like Henry Pires et al, but even then a better manager would IMO have done greater things with these talents. He has taken advantage of our appreciation to entwine himself indistinguishably from the club. To a point where the club and he are essentially the same thing. This is the man who is now being portrayed as a VICTIM?. He craves and gets absolute control and after getting it should he be absolved from the crap team we now see before us. The club has been more than appreciative by paying him way beyond his peers or his talents. He simply needs to go. I have no doubt that even invisible Sam will see that he will gain nothing by keeping Wenger after this year and possibly will risk the essence and status of the club worldwide. Fans are disgruntled ALL OVER THE WORLD, not just on the stands. The advertisers know this too. Another calamitous year will not help our prospects when all those deals come up for renewal in a year or so. But imagine what those companies will think if Pep is acknowledged as taking over.

At least we wont be having a manager less astute than those currently at Swansea, Norwich and Bradford.

You might classify statements of the obvious as wailing but the fact remains, there has been zero investment on the pitch. That's the reality. There has been impressive investment off the pitch that has strengthened the bottom line in financial terms but all those players that have been sold is the net result of decisions that could only have been taken at the most senior levels. That's not to confirm Wenger has been against these policies, maybe he has, maybe he hasn't. We don't know. But if we're talking about players (conveniently) leaving to pursue higher ambitions then it comes back to the lack of investment again. How would those ambitions be realistically achieved? By having better players. You can't do that with net zero investment. This has been the dominant factor in our slide from contenders to also-rans. Wenger's tactics don't help but by your own argument having better players might even have remedied these problems to a degree, as you very unfairly suggest was the case in the past. I suspect you weren't saying this at the time.

I still don't understand why people talk about dividends. The previous board didn't need dividends to cash in handsomely, did they? Nor will Kroenke when his turn arrives. Return on investment doesn't have to be delivered in the form of dividends.