Fair enough. Sorry. You usually areOriginally Posted by Arse n Wonga
I wasn't even talking about Wenger.
As I said I wasn't really following the conversation.
Carry on
Fair enough. Sorry. You usually areI wasn't even talking about Wenger
As I said I wasn't really following the conversation.
Carry on
success, i would imagine in your eyes, means trophies so mid table averageness doesn't come into it. finishing second to bayern for a while wouldn't be deemed as success in your eyes i'd imagine.
as i've explained the whole structure around the club and on the pitch is very much one of big success and that of huge ambition. if a player does not want to stick around for more of that, then it doesn't come down to anything but greed, particularly if they stay in the same country - you could make an argument for going to england/spain or italy to try something new.
your definition of ambition revolves around money and trophies, which does not make any sense. you need ambition to get there in the first place, something dortmund have understood and are seeminly setting everything in place to continue that. if an agent of a player fights to have a clause inserted, or a star striker does not sign a new contract then there is little to be down except look for replacements, which I’m sure they’ll do but to suggest they lack ambition because of that is insane. They are one of most forward thinking clubs around right now, full to the brim with ambition, plans and more importantly the ability to achieve. The idea that money and guaranteed success is the only marker for ‘ambition’ is failed ideal that too many fans have swallowed forced down their necks by the money men ruining the game for the past decade or so.
We'll have to see if they are indeed ambitious or whether it's just circumstances that makes them what they are today, if they're still around in 5 years time challenging then yes you coud say they have ambition, if they go back to what they were then you'd have to say perhaps not.
They're in a very good position, lots of quality players, some success and inevitably lots of money...it's important they re-invest that and try to build on it.
As for success being money and trophies, well in a players eyes it's is and that's what matters. Players don't want to spend their career at a club where his chances of success are minimal (I'm not necessarily talking about Dortmund here btw).
Goetze's move is no surprise, Bayern are the biggest club in German football, have a history of success and not settling for 2nd best, they have a similar pull in Germany as clubs like Barca and Real have worldwide, they're the Man U of German football and most top players would love to play for them, Dortmund can't compete with that unless they win CL's and challenge Bayern every season for the trophies.
Last edited by Özim; 23-04-2013 at 03:24 PM.
What if they do re-invest but can't quite manage to sustain the level they're at now? That wouldn't happen through a lack of ambition, that would be because their current crop are exceptional and it's always difficult to replace players like that and expect things to be as they were.
I think if they re-invest they should be up there, that's unless they have a hopeless manager. They get 32 million for Goetze that's a fair bit of cash. As I said though top players want to be at clubs that have a good chance of winning, Liverpool was the example I gave, they have invested heavily but in recent times it's been harder for them to attract top players because despite their illustrious history they're not really challenging these days.
I think a big name manager with ambitious plans can change things for a club like them though, it's just that Brendan Rodgers is unknown which makes it more difficult.
that's the point, they are ambitious, right now! everything is in place to keep pushing for success, which is the correct definition of ambition.
players have been warped by agents and money, as have many fans who have fallen into the same trap of believing the same rubbish. as we are talking about gotze, he was in no position to believe that his chances of success were minimal given what they've won, where they are now and everything set up around him.
moving to a larger club in your country that you are competing with right now doesn't show 'ambition' it shows greed. he has won the league twice already. how many times will he win the cl at bayern? once or twice, which given the path dortmund are on is not too dissimilar. perhaps if he was in his mid to late 20's and wanted to play for a club with an illustrious history i could buy into that but when you are 20, there can be only one reason, given his success so far.
success doesn't equal ambition, ambition leads to success.
Last edited by Kano; 23-04-2013 at 04:00 PM.
He said he wanted to play for Pep.
The timing of the story stinks. It disrupts their CL prep. Bayern have played a little dirty.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...estions-timing
You dont have much of a face eitherI do not have a mustache, dodgy or otherwise
Arsene Wenger, the only football manager that got paid 8 million quid to do nothing but sit on his arse..
This Goat person , Bayern thing, is the reason I can never be mad with what clubs like Chelsea, PSG, City are doing. You try and build up the so-called "right" way. And every season, your best players are getting plucked from you. Even if you manage some success, because you're not one of the so-called clubs with "history", it doesn't matter.
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