Do you still want Wenger as Arsenal manager?

[Power n Glory]

That's a fair and reasonable assessment which stands a chance of being right in the real world, unlike all this "madman" and "megalomaniac" BS. So if Wenger goes how much will really change? It's inevitable the new coach would have a lot less influence over the board, and if we accept the board is partially to blame for our problems then the upshot of Wenger's removal is what? The cancer will still exist at the heart of the club. I've started to review Wenger's comments this summer from a perspective other than, "Wenger Out!", and I think he's talking to us in the only way he can given undoubted constraints. Now I might be delusional myself but I'm going with my gut instinct and in the end I'm not for the board, I'm not for Wenger, I'm for the club - Arsenal. And it's my belief we have some seriously bad'uns in the boardroom now. Toffs who have already cashed in and shouldn't even be there plus an absent owner who knows fuck all about the club and wouldn't have invested at all if his intention wasn't to get back more than he's put in. Wenger's got much to answer for too, no doubt, but I'd trust him over these Etonian fucks and the American any day.

There is a flip side to this. What if the board have been taken in by Wenger's 'monorail' song and dance?

With his appointment, the infrastructure of the club has totally changed. They've taken risks with huge investments off the back of this one guy. They've put all their eggs in one basket and set out a long term plan that would take years to fulfil. Like the fans, like the players, they could have been sold a dream by Wenger and Dein. But as the years have passed, we've seen the players lose faith, now the fans are losing it, when will the board start to wobble? It will take them a long time to cut their ties with Wenger and they need him more than he needs them.

They can't screw him around and treat him like an idiot. If he walks and they're screwed. They know very little about football and depend heavily on Wenger's insight and knowledge. They screwed Dein over and lumped more of the responsibility on to Wenger. What do they know about the value of a player or wages? They can't even negotiate good sponsorship deals. It's probably why guys like Gazidis and Stan have been drafted in. They need more people that can help steer this ship and actually know what to do when Wenger is gone. If they sack him or rock the boat then they are screwed. Or so they think.

The board are just as incompetent. I don't think they've jumped on board to bleed the club dry and make a fast getaway. Some may be jumping ship now, but I wouldn't say it was the original plan. I just think they put too much trust in Wenger and as long as we're still competitive, they won't sack him. Well, the old board wouldn't. But, you do have a point. It is a serious worry to see what happens when Wenger is gone and silent Stan sitting in charge. But....Stan is a Sports man and owns Franchises in the good old USA. We can take comfort in that.

[Niall_Quinn]

There is a flip side to this. What if the board have been taken in by Wenger's 'monorail' song and dance?

With his appointment, the infrastructure of the club has totally changed. They've taken risks with huge investments off the back of this one guy. They've put all their eggs in one basket and set out a long term plan that would take years to fulfil. Like the fans, like the players, they could have been sold a dream by Wenger and Dein. But as the years have passed, we've seen the players lose faith, now the fans are losing it, when will the board start to wobble? It will take them a long time to cut their ties with Wenger and they need him more than he needs them.

They can't screw him around and treat him like an idiot. If he walks and they're screwed. They know very little about football and depend heavily on Wenger's insight and knowledge. They screwed Dein over and lumped more of the responsibility on to Wenger. What do they know about the value of a player or wages? They can't even negotiate good sponsorship deals. It's probably why guys like Gazidis and Stan have been drafted in. They need more people that can help steer this ship and actually know what to do when Wenger is gone. If they sack him or rock the boat then they are screwed. Or so they think.

The board are just as incompetent. I don't think they've jumped on board to bleed the club dry and make a fast getaway. Some may be jumping ship now, but I wouldn't say it was the original plan. I just think they put too much trust in Wenger and as long as we're still competitive, they won't sack him. Well, the old board wouldn't. But, you do have a point. It is a serious worry to see what happens when Wenger is gone and silent Stan sitting in charge. But....Stan is a Sports man and owns Franchises in the good old USA. We can take comfort in that.

Reasonably argued. You could be right, I could be right, more likely we're both partly right and partly way off the mark. That's the trouble with this club, they keep everything tight. But the question is, should Wenger keep his job? Which also implies another question, should he be sacked? The season has started, there's a few days left in the transfer window, the pressure is being piled on the club. Personally (I mean not that anybody of consequence is waiting to see how I jump, but I'm part of the mass called the fans and so my opinion is one of the drops that makes the ocean) I don't want to be part of that pressure for two reasons.

First, hitting the self destruct button now makes no sense at all. If Wenger was going to leave it should have been at the end of last season when the team scandalously collapsed. That was completely unacceptable and grounds for and manager to be removed. But it didn't happen and now is certainly not the time to be talking about changing the manager. I hear people say, I hope we lose to Udinese, I hope we sign no players and Wenger is sacked, I hope we finish outside the top four. This is frustration I suppose but it would also be totally counter-productive. Why are we pissed off? Because we can't win, because there's no stability. So when some fans go to far and say let's lose and let's kick the manager out and get anyone in, this isn't good for the club, this doesn't give us stability and this doesn't help us to win. These are the things we claim we want but blowing up the club is not going to get them.

Second, I don't like some of the bedfellows I'd have to lie with if I seriously joined the gathering witch hunt for Wenger's head. Poxy journalists, pathetic pundits, opposition fans looking for amusement, pretty much all the tossers in the world I wouldn't have a drink with. If Wenger has to go it should not be at the hands of pricks like this, run out in some media frenzy with the added indignity of some Arsenal fans running with the mob. If we join this we say Wenger is worthless and has done nothing for the club, we say he deserves to be humiliated, hounded, made fun of in the media, discussed like he's an idiot around breakfast tables staffed by slimy journalists who pretend to have an ounce as much dignity or integrity as Wenger. It's not just Wenger, I wouldn't see it happen to any good man because it's just wrong.

And say we did this, ran Wenger out of the club and destroyed him in the process. What if we woke up in the morning and discovered it had been the board all along? That these are the bastards who have exploited the club and run it into the ground for their own gain. I don't know for sure but which seems more reasonable, that Wenger would run the club down through sheer arrogance and the board would sit there and let him do it, or the board itself has run the club down because along came Stan and they saw their chance to cash in big time? Remember, Stan has been taking over this club for a long time, it didn't all start happening last year.

Like I said, I'm wrong, you're wrong, we're both partly right - time may tell. But I'm not jumping on any bandwagon in the meantime because I feel the club is in enough trouble already and could probably do better with my support right now rather than me sticking a boot in. Plus the guys genuinely seemed to try on Saturday and even though they fucked it up in the end I appreciated that effort. It's been a while coming but I'm not going to ignore it when it arrives.

[fakeyank]

First, hitting the self destruct button now makes no sense at all. If Wenger was going to leave it should have been at the end of last season when the team scandalously collapsed. That was completely unacceptable and grounds for and manager to be removed. But it didn't happen and now is certainly not the time to be talking about changing the manager. I hear people say, I hope we lose to Udinese, I hope we sign no players and Wenger is sacked, I hope we finish outside the top four. This is frustration I suppose but it would also be totally counter-productive. Why are we pissed off? Because we can't win, because there's no stability. So when some fans go to far and say let's lose and let's kick the manager out and get anyone in, this isn't good for the club, this doesn't give us stability and this doesn't help us to win. These are the things we claim we want but blowing up the club is not going to get them.

Dont know about others but I am pissed because we dont TRY and I cant emphasize the TRY part enough. If we tried to win, made the necessary changes then I will stand by the manager, team and anyone in their right mind but when you dont see them giving a F, then the patience runs out. It would be different if this was a problem only this season.. Its been the same every season for the last 4-5 years. Big Changes need to be made and they cant come off the back of us scrapping a narrow win into CL. That would only give more credence to qualifying for CL is like a trophy BS by Wenger.

Every season, it is the same crap.. we will strenghten for sure. So far, we have sold our experienced and/or best players and not got anyone in... Why should I not be pissed? I am specially pissed now coz the transfer window closes in 10 days. Why is it that we fans have to compromise and be ok with the club taking us for a fool? When is the club going to run for the fans? I support all the negaitvity around the club right now.. if we want change from the boardroom down then this is needed!

[Power n Glory]

Reasonably argued. You could be right, I could be right, more likely we're both partly right and partly way off the mark. That's the trouble with this club, they keep everything tight. But the question is, should Wenger keep his job? Which also implies another question, should he be sacked? The season has started, there's a few days left in the transfer window, the pressure is being piled on the club. Personally (I mean not that anybody of consequence is waiting to see how I jump, but I'm part of the mass called the fans and so my opinion is one of the drops that makes the ocean) I don't want to be part of that pressure for two reasons.

First, hitting the self destruct button now makes no sense at all. If Wenger was going to leave it should have been at the end of last season when the team scandalously collapsed. That was completely unacceptable and grounds for and manager to be removed. But it didn't happen and now is certainly not the time to be talking about changing the manager. I hear people say, I hope we lose to Udinese, I hope we sign no players and Wenger is sacked, I hope we finish outside the top four. This is frustration I suppose but it would also be totally counter-productive. Why are we pissed off? Because we can't win, because there's no stability. So when some fans go to far and say let's lose and let's kick the manager out and get anyone in, this isn't good for the club, this doesn't give us stability and this doesn't help us to win. These are the things we claim we want but blowing up the club is not going to get them.

Second, I don't like some of the bedfellows I'd have to lie with if I seriously joined the gathering witch hunt for Wenger's head. Poxy journalists, pathetic pundits, opposition fans looking for amusement, pretty much all the tossers in the world I wouldn't have a drink with. If Wenger has to go it should not be at the hands of pricks like this, run out in some media frenzy with the added indignity of some Arsenal fans running with the mob. If we join this we say Wenger is worthless and has done nothing for the club, we say he deserves to be humiliated, hounded, made fun of in the media, discussed like he's an idiot around breakfast tables staffed by slimy journalists who pretend to have an ounce as much dignity or integrity as Wenger. It's not just Wenger, I wouldn't see it happen to any good man because it's just wrong.

And say we did this, ran Wenger out of the club and destroyed him in the process. What if we woke up in the morning and discovered it had been the board all along? That these are the bastards who have exploited the club and run it into the ground for their own gain. I don't know for sure but which seems more reasonable, that Wenger would run the club down through sheer arrogance and the board would sit there and let him do it, or the board itself has run the club down because along came Stan and they saw their chance to cash in big time? Remember, Stan has been taking over this club for a long time, it didn't all start happening last year.

Like I said, I'm wrong, you're wrong, we're both partly right - time may tell. But I'm not jumping on any bandwagon in the meantime because I feel the club is in enough trouble already and could probably do better with my support right now rather than me sticking a boot in. Plus the guys genuinely seemed to try on Saturday and even though they fucked it up in the end I appreciated that effort. It's been a while coming but I'm not going to ignore it when it arrives.

Yes, I agree with you on that one. I want Wenger to go, but now isn't the right time. We're at the start of the season and this all should have been sorted in the summer. But, I hope the board start looking for his replacement now so we know what needs to be done next summer or when his contract comes to an end.

For his own sake, I hope he really goes for it this season. He's never won the Champions League, never won back to back titles and he needs to do that to be remembered as one of the true greats. Besides the stadium, the football and domestic titles, the invincible squad, I want him to be remembered for winning all honours and dominating the Prem. That looks unlikely to happen and going out like this would be a real bitter pill to swallow. It really shouldn't end like this and he does deserve a better exit but he has to pull himself together or it's another case of looking at the worst case scenario.