Cricket Thread

[IBK]

[QUOTE=Heisenberg;367518]Pietersen has been disruptive and problematic in the past. He's lucky they reintegrated him after the South Africa texts thing. To be honest, while I will feel his loss - an outstanding talent and exciting player to watch - I don't feel like I can argue with it. A scapegoat? Perhaps to an extent, but he's been a problem in that dressing room in the past. If they decide he's too much trouble to continue handling, then it's probably fair enough. It will make England's rebuilding more arduous in the short term, but hopefully it helps in the longer run.[/QUOTE]

That I can agree with. But For me, the episode says as much for the 'traditionalist' approach of the ECB than anything else. Fletcher; Flower; Cook are all establishment. Flintoff; Pieterson; Swann - even Vaughan weren't, yet they are the players who achieved the success we've had since 2005.

[Syn]

From what I hear, though, his form dropped due to his frustration at the way he was treated. he's not captain material, but everything I have ever heard about him points to him being a winning obsessive. Maybe this is the real reason for his fallout with the team. Him being restricted to fielding on the boundary during the Ashes series points to him being marginalised. We're not exactly flush with senior players on form to dump a player who was the second least shit on tour. This smacks to me of vested interests rather than the benefits of a fresh start.

I don't know exactly the reason for the fall-out but on the topic of 'winning obsessive', I get the impression he's the opposite. He doesn't seem to care much; a flaky character who was never really in love with the game. He has managed to have a great career because he's one of the most talented cricketers to have played. His record should be a lot better than it is but he never bothered to iron out the few weaknesses he had in his batting style.

Don't know whether there's somebody capable of taking up his role but as I've mentioned - the no.4 spot is absolutely critical in tests. England need to find a prolific, young batsman in there quickly.

[cricketsi]

[QUOTE=IBK;367520]

Pietersen has been disruptive and problematic in the past. He's lucky they reintegrated him after the South Africa texts thing. To be honest, while I will feel his loss - an outstanding talent and exciting player to watch - I don't feel like I can argue with it. A scapegoat? Perhaps to an extent, but he's been a problem in that dressing room in the past. If they decide he's too much trouble to continue handling, then it's probably fair enough. It will make England's rebuilding more arduous in the short term, but hopefully it helps in the longer run.[/QUOTE]

That I can agree with. But For me, the episode says as much for the 'traditionalist' approach of the ECB than anything else. Fletcher; Flower; Cook are all establishment. Flintoff; Pieterson; Swann - even Vaughan weren't, yet they are the players who achieved the success we've had since 2005.

Not sure I understand your point or not... are you saying non-"establishment" is more key to success? Your cited establishment were extremely successful, as was Strauss, another establishment man I would presume. If your point was it takes a mixture, then yes, that is probably correct.

I'm a bit undecided about the whole Pietersen situation. I have often slated him for his selfish cavalier attitude, but not sure this is being handled that well.

[IBK]

I don't know exactly the reason for the fall-out but on the topic of 'winning obsessive', I get the impression he's the opposite. He doesn't seem to care much; a flaky character who was never really in love with the game. He has managed to have a great career because he's one of the most talented cricketers to have played. His record should be a lot better than it is but he never bothered to iron out the few weaknesses he had in his batting style.

Don't know whether there's somebody capable of taking up his role but as I've mentioned - the no.4 spot is absolutely critical in tests. England need to find a prolific, young batsman in there quickly.

All opinion, but I see him as a Rooney type character who needs to be loved to perform, and IMO the ECB is punishing him for not performing while unloved.

[IBK]

[QUOTE=cricketsi;367541]

Not sure I understand your point or not... are you saying non-"establishment" is more key to success? Your cited establishment were extremely successful, as was Strauss, another establishment man I would presume. If your point was it takes a mixture, then yes, that is probably correct.

I'm a bit undecided about the whole Pietersen situation. I have often slated him for his selfish cavalier attitude, but not sure this is being handled that well.

I'm saying that the 'establishment' approach failed in Australia - much like Australia's did prior to the summer.

[cricketsi]

[QUOTE=IBK;367547]

I'm saying that the 'establishment' approach failed in Australia - much like Australia's did prior to the summer.

And by extension the approach succeeded for the previous 3 series against Australia. Obviously the Ashes just passed were a disaster, but to wholly dismiss the set-up is still a tad reactionary.

[IBK]

[QUOTE=cricketsi;367550]

And by extension the approach succeeded for the previous 3 series against Australia. Obviously the Ashes just passed were a disaster, but to wholly dismiss the set-up is still a tad reactionary.

I don't think so. Failure to evolve a team that really, properly hit the heights is culpable. So many mistakes have been made. We have been going downhill since SA 2012.

[Syn]

Deflecting attention to the NZ-India, 1st test at 10pm tonight, SS3.

NZ beat India 4-0 in the ODIs and have got much better bowlers so this should be a close series.

[IBK]

I don't know exactly the reason for the fall-out but on the topic of 'winning obsessive', I get the impression he's the opposite. He doesn't seem to care much; a flaky character who was never really in love with the game. He has managed to have a great career because he's one of the most talented cricketers to have played. His record should be a lot better than it is but he never bothered to iron out the few weaknesses he had in his batting style.

Don't know whether there's somebody capable of taking up his role but as I've mentioned - the no.4 spot is absolutely critical in tests. England need to find a prolific, young batsman in there quickly.

Again. I see him like a Rooney or a Gazza. Needs to be wanted to succeed.

[Syn]

Again. I see him like a Rooney or a Gazza. Needs to be wanted to succeed.

I read it the first time...what do you want me to do with that?