When do we start to believe ?

[IBK]

It gives me little pleasure to say that I have always been sceptical about how much progress we have made this season - and I'm afraid that the smart money says that we will finish fourth, as usual, and may even be in a scrap with Spurs for a CL place, depending what happens at the shithole. Key features of this season?

- Continued failure to beat the top teams. Yes we've beaten Liverpool at home twice, but we have always had the odd surprising result, and lets face it we were very lucky in the FA Cup match. The single point in 2 games against a floundering Manure team says more for me about our midset in this regard.

- Tactical naivity. At full strength, our players are better than most other teams', and it has shown. But for me, Wenger has been shown to be alarmingly vulnerable - not only to the likes of Mourinho and Pellegrini, but to younger, bolder managers such as Rogers; Pochettino and even Steve Clarke. We are predictable, and have rarely dominated games.

- Incompetence in the transfer market. The world and his wife can see that we were left too short in key areas both in the Summer and in the December transfer window. While the Suarez scenario now reflects rather better on AFC than it did, the Kallsrom fiasco - both in terms of targeting the player; proceeding with bringing an injured player in, and failing to do anything else speaks volumes (can you believe that with only 2 months to go in the season he still has no return date!!!!!?) . It is clear to me that in terms of transfers Dein was as important to Wenger as Taylor was to Clough on the playing side.

- There is a serious question mark over Wenger's ability to spend money. Whatever excuses are made - the reality is that for 42M, Ozil has been a massive disappointment for us. He has not been what this team needs; has not stepped up to the plate as the main man; has shown remarkable mental frailty and has so far been a waste of money. As matters stand, he looks like a Wenger vanity purchase. A player whose skill Wenger admires, and who became available, but who was not bought with proper insight into how he would interact with the players at Wengers's disposal. OK, he might progress next season, but for me, you don't spend 42M on a 'future project' - you spend it to make a difference now. Suarez; Rooney; Ronaldo; Bale; Aguero; Toure etc etc all have huge mental strength and a will to win. That is partly what you are buying. Hell, even our own players such as Ramsey; Kossy; Sczcesny....Eboue (FFS) have shown mental toughness that we certainly have not seen from Ozil . That is a real worry - and in keeping with a traditional Wenger blind spot.

- As usual, we have been decimated by injuries/lack of condition. Our best player sidelined for more than half a season; our quickest and improving winger/striker plays for only 1/4 of a season; our 11M German forward seemingly injured then out of condition for most of the season (another Wenger waste of money?); It cannot be pure co-incidence that every season our key players are out injured - and over playing/rushing players back from injury because we are either too stretched or the manager will not have faith in his alternatives has to be part of the problem.

- And lastly - our playing style. Whisper it quietly, but there is a reason why Liverpool are flavour of the season, and Citeh are feted, despite buying their success. Its because they play scinitllating, entertaining football. Other entertainers are Everton; Southampton - even Sp*rs at times. We however, no longer entertain on a regular basis. Sure - in Wilshere's and Rosicky's goals we have candidates for team goals of the season - but this is rare. Efficiency and possession football would be fine if it was getting us any further than we had before, but it isn't, and its dull to watch most of the time.

So - when do we start to believe? I have remained to be convinced most of the season - and what I see now is the same fourth place trophy as we perennially win.

[selassie]

It gives me little pleasure to say that I have always been sceptical about how much progress we have made this season - and I'm afraid that the smart money says that we will finish fourth, as usual, and may even be in a scrap with Spurs for a CL place, depending what happens at the shithole. Key features of this season?

- Continued failure to beat the top teams. Yes we've beaten Liverpool at home twice, but we have always had the odd surprising result, and lets face it we were very lucky in the FA Cup match. The single point in 2 games against a floundering Manure team says more for me about our midset in this regard.

- Tactical naivity. At full strength, our players are better than most other teams', and it has shown. But for me, Wenger has been shown to be alarmingly vulnerable - not only to the likes of Mourinho and Pellegrini, but to younger, bolder managers such as Rogers; Pochettino and even Steve Clarke. We are predictable, and have rarely dominated games.

- Incompetence in the transfer market. The world and his wife can see that we were left too short in key areas both in the Summer and in the December transfer window. While the Suarez scenario now reflects rather better on AFC than it did, the Kallsrom fiasco - both in terms of targeting the player; proceeding with bringing an injured player in, and failing to do anything else speaks volumes (can you believe that with only 2 months to go in the season he still has no return date!!!!!?) . It is clear to me that in terms of transfers Dein was as important to Wenger as Taylor was to Clough on the playing side.

- There is a serious question mark over Wenger's ability to spend money. Whatever excuses are made - the reality is that for 42M, Ozil has been a massive disappointment for us. He has not been what this team needs; has not stepped up to the plate as the main man; has shown remarkable mental frailty and has so far been a waste of money. As matters stand, he looks like a Wenger vanity purchase. A player whose skill Wenger admires, and who became available, but who was not bought with proper insight into how he would interact with the players at Wengers's disposal. OK, he might progress next season, but for me, you don't spend 42M on a 'future project' - you spend it to make a difference now. Suarez; Rooney; Ronaldo; Bale; Aguero; Toure etc etc all have huge mental strength and a will to win. That is partly what you are buying. Hell, even our own players such as Ramsey; Kossy; Sczcesny....Eboue (FFS) have shown mental toughness that we certainly have not seen from Ozil . That is a real worry - and in keeping with a traditional Wenger blind spot.

- As usual, we have been decimated by injuries/lack of condition. Our best player sidelined for more than half a season; our quickest and improving winger/striker plays for only 1/4 of a season; our 11M German forward seemingly injured then out of condition for most of the season (another Wenger waste of money?); It cannot be pure co-incidence that every season our key players are out injured - and over playing/rushing players back from injury because we are either too stretched or the manager will not have faith in his alternatives has to be part of the problem.

- And lastly - our playing style. Whisper it quietly, but there is a reason why Liverpool are flavour of the season, and Citeh are feted, despite buying their success. Its because they play scinitllating, entertaining football. Other entertainers are Everton; Southampton - even Sp*rs at times. We however, no longer entertain on a regular basis. Sure - in Wilshere's and Rosicky's goals we have candidates for team goals of the season - but this is rare. Efficiency and possession football would be fine if it was getting us any further than we had before, but it isn't, and its dull to watch most of the time.

So - when do we start to believe? I have remained to be convinced most of the season - and what I see now is the same fourth place trophy as we perennially win.

Excellent Post, agree with all of this.

[LDG]

He could have added a few positives, tbf.

[IBK]

He could have added a few positives, tbf.

I could have done - but the thread is entitled when do we start to believe (and I think this was a reference to winning the title, or at least that we have made a step change). While there have indeed been encouraging signs in terms of our defence, and some of our developmental players - what I have tried to analyse is why, particularly relative to the teams immediately around us, there has been little real change as we currently stand.

[LDG]

Don't get me wrong. You always write very well, and I get your points. But you're also losing sight of some key things, which, is a consequence of the ability to judge a team whenever is convenient, ignoring some of the other factors which are extremely important, and aren't just a reaction at any given time.

Liverpool are unique this year, in that they have clicked wonderfully well up top, but also haven't had to deal with too much by way of fatigue, rotation etc, meaning they have been able to field a consistent eleven. We all know how important it is to have "relationships" on the pitch. Couple that with one superstar player, and it's not hard to see why they have been a success. I would has at a guess that throwing in ECL football next term, and testing their squad (which needs serious investment....and lets not forget they have a 50m loss on thier books this tem) will see them struggle a little more.....they're also not under the spotlight in the same way our team are.

City and Chelsea don't need much talking over. They don't need to build, develop and do things through too much hardwork. As NQ has said before; Injuries don't mean a thing to a team like theirs. It has no bearing on them. Hence you can't really judge us against them.

And where, relative to our season, are Utd, Spurs and the like? Why are you not judging us against them, rather than against our direct (atm) competitors?

Let me also say, that you, being a reasonable chap, should also remember not to judge players too quickly. In Ozil, we have an extremely good player. But there are so many things you have to consider when you lok at his signing alone...long before you call him a flop.

i) It's his first season in a new league. Yes, some players adapt straight away, but lots don't. There are very few who set a trailblazing run of form in their first term. A player of his calibre will succeed given the time.

ii) You have to look at the team he's currently playing in. It doesn't suit him...YET. He needs a Suarez (who it seems we were very unlucky not to get). He needs Walcott. He needs Ramsey, and he needs TIME.

As far as our style of play goes. Well, I'm sorry, but playing the way we play (frustrating as it is) requires things to drop into place. There are still pieces of the jigsaw to put together. We can all see that.

We have all been patient, so I get the wish to see us sweep to glory NOW. But when you look at what has actually happened over the last year or so, it does bode well, but it won't happen over night. We still need our star striker. Desperately. But when we have him....I for one believe that it will change the whole team. The style, the movement etc. But also, it's like connecting the electricity to all of the other components.

Do I believe? Yes. Can we win it this year, now? Not so sure. But I don't think many of us did.

[JonasTC]

[AFC Leveller]

Don't get me wrong. You always write very well, and I get your points. But you're also losing sight of some key things, which, is a consequence of the ability to judge a team whenever is convenient, ignoring some of the other factors which are extremely important, and aren't just a reaction at any given time.

Liverpool are unique this year, in that they have clicked wonderfully well up top, but also haven't had to deal with too much by way of fatigue, rotation etc, meaning they have been able to field a consistent eleven. We all know how important it is to have "relationships" on the pitch. Couple that with one superstar player, and it's not hard to see why they have been a success. I would has at a guess that throwing in ECL football next term, and testing their squad (which needs serious investment....and lets not forget they have a 50m loss on thier books this tem) will see them struggle a little more.....they're also not under the spotlight in the same way our team are.

City and Chelsea don't need much talking over. They don't need to build, develop and do things through too much hardwork. As NQ has said before; Injuries don't mean a thing to a team like theirs. It has no bearing on them. Hence you can't really judge us against them.

And where, relative to our season, are Utd, Spurs and the like? Why are you not judging us against them, rather than against our direct (atm) competitors?

Let me also say, that you, being a reasonable chap, should also remember not to judge players too quickly. In Ozil, we have an extremely good player. But there are so many things you have to consider when you lok at his signing alone...long before you call him a flop.

i) It's his first season in a new league. Yes, some players adapt straight away, but lots don't. There are very few who set a trailblazing run of form in their first term. A player of his calibre will succeed given the time.

ii) You have to look at the team he's currently playing in. It doesn't suit him...YET. He needs a Suarez (who it seems we were very unlucky not to get). He needs Walcott. He needs Ramsey, and he needs TIME.

As far as our style of play goes. Well, I'm sorry, but playing the way we play (frustrating as it is) requires things to drop into place. There are still pieces of the jigsaw to put together. We can all see that.

We have all been patient, so I get the wish to see us sweep to glory NOW. But when you look at what has actually happened over the last year or so, it does bode well, but it won't happen over night. We still need our star striker. Desperately. But when we have him....I for one believe that it will change the whole team. The style, the movement etc. But also, it's like connecting the electricity to all of the other components.

Do I believe? Yes. Can we win it this year, now? Not so sure. But I don't think many of us did.

Good post.

I think this team is crying out for Suarez (note: nota A Suarez but Suarez himself because he's one of a kind). We need a lethal player, a guy who runs, terrifies defenders, wins his duals, scores goals in the tight games etc. We dont have that right now and the fact that we have challenged is a testament to the squad and management team.

[saintnickle]

Don't get me wrong. You always write very well, and I get your points. But you're also losing sight of some key things, which, is a consequence of the ability to judge a team whenever is convenient, ignoring some of the other factors which are extremely important, and aren't just a reaction at any given time.

Liverpool are unique this year, in that they have clicked wonderfully well up top, but also haven't had to deal with too much by way of fatigue, rotation etc, meaning they have been able to field a consistent eleven. We all know how important it is to have "relationships" on the pitch. Couple that with one superstar player, and it's not hard to see why they have been a success. I would has at a guess that throwing in ECL football next term, and testing their squad (which needs serious investment....and lets not forget they have a 50m loss on thier books this tem) will see them struggle a little more.....they're also not under the spotlight in the same way our team are.

City and Chelsea don't need much talking over. They don't need to build, develop and do things through too much hardwork. As NQ has said before; Injuries don't mean a thing to a team like theirs. It has no bearing on them. Hence you can't really judge us against them.

And where, relative to our season, are Utd, Spurs and the like? Why are you not judging us against them, rather than against our direct (atm) competitors?

Let me also say, that you, being a reasonable chap, should also remember not to judge players too quickly. In Ozil, we have an extremely good player. But there are so many things you have to consider when you lok at his signing alone...long before you call him a flop.

i) It's his first season in a new league. Yes, some players adapt straight away, but lots don't. There are very few who set a trailblazing run of form in their first term. A player of his calibre will succeed given the time.

ii) You have to look at the team he's currently playing in. It doesn't suit him...YET. He needs a Suarez (who it seems we were very unlucky not to get). He needs Walcott. He needs Ramsey, and he needs TIME.

As far as our style of play goes. Well, I'm sorry, but playing the way we play (frustrating as it is) requires things to drop into place. There are still pieces of the jigsaw to put together. We can all see that.

We have all been patient, so I get the wish to see us sweep to glory NOW. But when you look at what has actually happened over the last year or so, it does bode well, but it won't happen over night. We still need our star striker. Desperately. But when we have him....I for one believe that it will change the whole team. The style, the movement etc. But also, it's like connecting the electricity to all of the other components.

Do I believe? Yes. Can we win it this year, now? Not so sure. But I don't think many of us did.

A few more points which point to our manager.

1." City and Chelsea don't need much talking over. They don't need to build, develop and do things through too much hardwork. As NQ has said before; Injuries don't mean a thing to a team like theirs. It has no bearing on them. Hence you can't really judge us against them."

Its is hardly city and chelsea's fault that our squad is threadbare .Surely that is down to the manager who sold off or offloaded over 18 players in the summer and replaced them with 4 players the likes of which only 1 plays reguarly

2."And where, relative to our season, are Utd, Spurs and the like? Why are you not judging us against them, rather than against our direct (atm) competitors?"

Its uniteds worst season probably in over 20 years and they will more than likely win as much as us.And spurs have as much chance of winning the europa cup as we have the fa cup.

3."Let me also say, that you, being a reasonable chap, should also remember not to judge players too quickly. In Ozil, we have an extremely good player. But there are so many things you have to consider when you lok at his signing alone...long before you call him a flop."

You fail to mention that everyone with half a brain knew it was obvious this team needed a striker in august and jan.What did we do ?We went and bought a midfielder.And if were being realistic if we had beaten villa in the first home game he probably would of kept the money in the bank.

4."You have to look at the team he's currently playing in. It doesn't suit him...YET. He needs a Suarez (who it seems we were very unlucky not to get). He needs Walcott. He needs Ramsey, and he needs TIME."

Whilst i agree that he needs time you cannot blame his performances since december on the rest of the team .Thats ludicrous and clutching at straws.Theres times when he doesnt look look like he wants to be here and for the money we paid you think he would be performing.

[saintnickle]

Good post.

I think this team is crying out for Suarez (note: nota A Suarez but Suarez himself because he's one of a kind). We need a lethal player, a guy who runs, terrifies defenders, wins his duals, scores goals in the tight games etc. We dont have that right now and the fact that we have challenged is a testament to the squad and management team.

So who's fault is it that we dont have a quality striker this season??Nobodys??Why on earth is next august different from this one and january.

[Letters]

Its is hardly city and chelsea's fault that our squad is threadbare

No, but no matter who our manager is there's no way we can compete with them in the transfer or salary market.
We can't buy £30m players and have them on the bench as backup like they can. Our squad does need to be stronger but if we buy an expensive flop there is a consequence, with City and Chelsea there isn't, they can just keep on spending till they get it right.