When do we start to believe ?

[LDG]

Aye - the problem is indeed whether Wenger - particularly at his age and with his stubborn philosophy - can achieve the fundamental change that is needed. Your observation about Wenger is absolutely spot on - and has been magnified even more by having a majority shareholding whose very investment strategy is dependent upon Wenger being at the helm. Because while Wenger has, frankly, failed in the true football sense for the past decade - he is an investor's wet dream - and an almost unprecedented salesman of the future. There will always be jam tomorrow, even though there's none today, as a certain poster used to say!

Optimists like LDG feel that Ozil is the glue that will suddenly make his methods and his team reach their true potential. I am much more circumspect. I worry whether there is really a proper plan, or whether Ozil was a vanity purchase and bought simply because he is a prime exponent of the type of footballer that Wenger most admires. We will see - but there have been so many false dawns over the past few years that I feel the Wenger doubters can hardly be criticised. What is most likely finally to kill of the waverers like me, however, is sheer fatigue with a situation that never seems to really change.

Eh? Where have I said that?

[IBK]

Eh? Where have I said that?

Soz - just re-read your post. You were talking about a star striker, not Ozil...

[LDG]

Soz - just re-read your post. You were talking about a star striker, not Ozil...

With a pinch of salt too

It's difficult to be certain, quite obviously, and I have no idea what Wenger's plans are for a striker (he does seem to like his big lads at the moment).

What I was trying to get at, is that in buying someone more Suarez-like, with movement and pace, it opens the team up. Imagine if you will, "Suarez" in the middle, Walcott out wide, with Ozil utilising that movement and speed.

But it's not just him that will benefit (IMO). Imagine Liverpool without Suarez (all season...not just a few games for biting someone). He opens the door for everyone else, does he not? Who's to say Wilshere doesn't suddenly have someone to aim at. And wouldn't it be nice that someone is running in behind for a change, rather than passing it sideways accross two banks of four?

And as far as being "optimistic" goes....well, I'm not sure I'd call myself a die-hard optimist. I just try and be rational, and give benefit of the doubt where I can. I'd rather go to a football match hoping (sometimes expecting) a win, than start laying into it before.

Like I said. Lots of your points are very valid. There are issues that need to be addressed. But we're in an age where everything is analysed to the nth degree, rather than just seeing an obvious improvement to date, with some potential, and hope to come

[Power n Glory]

If we had a player like Suarez, a playmaker like Ozil wouldn’t be essential. Suarez doesn’t have anyone playing behind him as talented as Ozil but he plays to his full potential. I thought Ozil would help get better performances out of the other players. I get why IBK says he’s looking like a luxury player and a vanity purchase.

It’s early days but I don’t like the idea that we need to surround him with another 2/3 players to get more out of him. I look around at other players in our squad and their not so heavily dependent on others to flourish. Ramsey morphed into a beast and doesn’t need anyone in that squad to push him. He’s not even as talented as Ozil technically. Cesc had defensive limitations but he didn’t need anyone else around him to spray passes around. He made Adebayor look really good and I was hoping Ozil could do the same for Giroud and few other players around him. The criticism and scrutiny on him has been heavy but now it’s down to him to react. I’m hoping we see a beast next year like we’ve seen with Ramsey.

[AFC Leveller]

I guess we;ll have to wait until we has a full pre season with the club and starts from scratch like everyone else.

However, he has been below par and looks like he's finding the pace and physical apsect of things a bit too much.

[IBK]

With a pinch of salt too

It's difficult to be certain, quite obviously, and I have no idea what Wenger's plans are for a striker (he does seem to like his big lads at the moment).

What I was trying to get at, is that in buying someone more Suarez-like, with movement and pace, it opens the team up. Imagine if you will, "Suarez" in the middle, Walcott out wide, with Ozil utilising that movement and speed.

But it's not just him that will benefit (IMO). Imagine Liverpool without Suarez (all season...not just a few games for biting someone). He opens the door for everyone else, does he not? Who's to say Wilshere doesn't suddenly have someone to aim at. And wouldn't it be nice that someone is running in behind for a change, rather than passing it sideways accross two banks of four?

And as far as being "optimistic" goes....well, I'm not sure I'd call myself a die-hard optimist. I just try and be rational, and give benefit of the doubt where I can. I'd rather go to a football match hoping (sometimes expecting) a win, than start laying into it before.

Like I said. Lots of your points are very valid. There are issues that need to be addressed. But we're in an age where everything is analysed to the nth degree, rather than just seeing an obvious improvement to date, with some potential, and hope to come

I take all that - and agree strongly that a Suarez type forward with his movement might open us up - because that what we are bereft of on a consistent basis - in and around the opposition area.

Where I take a teensy bit of issue is the implication that those of us who are struggling to give the team the benefit of the doubt are irrational, whereas those that are willing to do so are rational. You probably didn;t mean it like that - and I would agree that the more reactionary posters on here could be considered irrational. But we have seen so many false dawns with this team, and been invited to invest in the future for so long. I guess it comes down to whether overall one sees a real difference in that this season. You do, and I don't (see any step change) - but on the facts as we see them each opinion is as justified (and rational) as the other.

As for games. I also go hoping for a win. Every time. And no Gooner would be more delighted than I am if we confound expectations and blitz our daunting coming run. If we do - THAT will be a step change!

[IBK]

If we had a player like Suarez, a playmaker like Ozil wouldn’t be essential. Suarez doesn’t have anyone playing behind him as talented as Ozil but he plays to his full potential. I thought Ozil would help get better performances out of the other players. I get why IBK says he’s looking like a luxury player and a vanity purchase.

It’s early days but I don’t like the idea that we need to surround him with another 2/3 players to get more out of him. I look around at other players in our squad and their not so heavily dependent on others to flourish. Ramsey morphed into a beast and doesn’t need anyone in that squad to push him. He’s not even as talented as Ozil technically. Cesc had defensive limitations but he didn’t need anyone else around him to spray passes around. He made Adebayor look really good and I was hoping Ozil could do the same for Giroud and few other players around him. The criticism and scrutiny on him has been heavy but now it’s down to him to react. I’m hoping we see a beast next year like we’ve seen with Ramsey.

Second that.

[selassie]

If we had a player like Suarez, a playmaker like Ozil wouldn’t be essential. Suarez doesn’t have anyone playing behind him as talented as Ozil but he plays to his full potential. I thought Ozil would help get better performances out of the other players. I get why IBK says he’s looking like a luxury player and a vanity purchase.

It’s early days but I don’t like the idea that we need to surround him with another 2/3 players to get more out of him. I look around at other players in our squad and their not so heavily dependent on others to flourish. Ramsey morphed into a beast and doesn’t need anyone in that squad to push him. He’s not even as talented as Ozil technically. Cesc had defensive limitations but he didn’t need anyone else around him to spray passes around. He made Adebayor look really good and I was hoping Ozil could do the same for Giroud and few other players around him. The criticism and scrutiny on him has been heavy but now it’s down to him to react. I’m hoping we see a beast next year like we’ve seen with Ramsey.

Yep

[fakeyank]

Seems like Joel Campbell scored another scorcher in midweek, so we have Suarez's ready made replacement coming in next season. A new signing!

[WMUG]

Squeaky bum time.

Not sure there can be anyone left who thinks we've got no chance, all about whether we can be the best of a very good (if expensively purchased) bunch. Not been this excited since 2008, and we all know how well that went