Wenger Out ?

[KSE Comedy Club]

I am surprised how many folks want Arsene to stick around.

I would love nothing more than for Arsene to see out the season with us finishing in a top 4 place and winning the FA Cup. Arsene should then do the decent thing and step down.

This man can offer this football club no more than a 4th place finish IMHO, that's as much as we'll get with Arsene in charge. I respect his past achievements and respect the way he has steadied the club post Emirates move but he is NOT the man to take this club forward. He is too set in his ways, I don't see him as a flexible and progressive manager.

We need change, fresh ideas, somebody new and progressive. Someone who is willing to take a chance.

This is spot on.

I was speaking to a mate I haven't seen in a while, a fellow gooner and I suggested to him that he needs to go.
His reply - "what?! Our best ever manager??"

That seems to be the response of those who want him to stay.

He has been our best manager yes, but unfortunately, he just cannot cut it anymore.

[fakeyank]

This is spot on.

I was speaking to a mate I haven't seen in a while, a fellow gooner and I suggested to him that he needs to go.
His reply - "what?! Our best ever manager??"

That seems to be the response of those who want him to stay.

He has been our best manager yes, but unfortunately, he just cannot cut it anymore.

The problem with people who want him to stay is that they have yet to understand the difference between he has been v/s he is

It just takes a little bit of time for some people to understand the difference between living in the past v/s the present. Moving on for many is not easy. It'll take time but sooner rather than later, it'll happen.

[Niall_Quinn]

The problem with people who want him to stay is that they have yet to understand the difference between he has been v/s he is

It just takes a little bit of time for some people to understand the difference between living in the past v/s the present. Moving on for many is not easy. It'll take time but sooner rather than later, it'll happen.

The irony.

Actually the real problem with people these days is most have never been taught the difference between value and price, or achievement and instant gratification. This is why at the conclusion of an unprecedented project to elevate Arsenal to the top ranks of the game some can say look, we didn't beat that billion quid club to the title yet, get the dynamite and blow everything to pieces.

[gunnerrrrr]

The irony.

Actually the real problem with people these days is most have never been taught the difference between value and price, or achievement and instant gratification. This is why at the conclusion of an unprecedented project to elevate Arsenal to the top ranks of the game some can say look, we didn't beat that billion quid club to the title yet, get the dynamite and blow everything to pieces.

Arsene is that you in disguise?

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsene is that you in disguise?

A wasted compliment.

But the living in the past business - if the last 10 years hadn't happened the way it has happened then that's where the club would be condemned to live forever. The past.

[Power n Glory]

The irony.

Actually the real problem with people these days is most have never been taught the difference between value and price, or achievement and instant gratification. This is why at the conclusion of an unprecedented project to elevate Arsenal to the top ranks of the game some can say look, we didn't beat that billion quid club to the title yet, get the dynamite and blow everything to pieces.

I don't think you can accuse any Arsenal fan of being impatient with Wenger. A lot of abuse was hurled in the Board directions. Ivan and Stan were given a rough ride and have taken a lot bullets for Wenger. You yourself accused them of asset stripping and ripping the soul out of the club. Little patience was afforded to them and they are relatively new to the Arsenal regime. Stan fully gained control in 2011 and Gazidis took up his role in 2009. It's funny to hear you talk to others about patience when you consider the accusations and abuse you hurled their way. That was a case of looking for instant gratification and considering the long term project we've had in mind, we were never going to get these sponsorship deals in place from day one. It takes time and now it finally looks like they're delivering on that promise. I think they deserve some recognition.

I can fully understand why the Board have been cautious and patient with Wenger when considering this long term project. It would have been risky to sack him in the middle of all this. But right now, they need to assess his position at the club and just like how we treat players over 30. Offer him the sort of contract that keeps him on his toes if he wants to stay. Nothing long term and maybe tie in some performance related bonuses. He's done a fantastic job for us getting here but with more money coming into the game with the new BT Sport money, with clubs like Liverpool and Everton growing stronger, more great players and managers coming to the Prem, we need to be careful we're not overtaken.

If we're thinking long term, how many more years do we give Wenger? I don't think he has the tools to cope with the modern game. Although we're looking financially secure, I don't think he'll still struggle because no matter what, we won't be able to outspend certain clubs or buy the most talented players like we were able to do in the late 90s early 2000s.

[Marc Overmars]

The talk in the papers is that he will only sign a 2 year deal. Makes sense to me, give him a chance with the big money we now have and also use the time to find a successor.

[Niall_Quinn]

The talk in the papers is that he will only sign a 2 year deal. Makes sense to me, give him a chance with the big money we now have and also use the time to find a successor.

Strong chance that was the plan all along. Maybe not the shortened 2 years, but see out the project and then pass it on. Which is why there's no harm retaining some dignity while it all develops.

[Niall_Quinn]

First up, the jury isn't out on Kroenke and whether his end game is to the maximum benefit of the club. The release of proper funds for a major signing was a good indicator though. I stand fully behind what I said about those who put little in and took the maximum at a time when finances were crucial. Unbelievably some are accusing Wenger of this and never a mention of the ones who pocketed ten thousand times their meagre investment. It was never about instant gratification, it was about the possibility of having the future taken away (remember the boardroom stabbings?) and the patience you mention being exchanged for a confidence trick rather than the real prize - which is the financial muscle to compete at the top of the game. The competing can't come before that, at least not on a consistent basis. One step follows the next and if the first indications are a prelude to delivering the remainder of what was promised when this project began then it's pure insanity to kick it all in at the death. For sure, it's still a risk but we're watching the big deals getting landed. We've all done the, "Are we there yet?", routine but now the answer is finally yes and we're pulling onto the driveway some stupid fuckers want to wrestle the wheel from the driver and crash the fucking car. I think it is because they have forgotten (or never knew) why they were on the journey in the first place and now they just hate the driver.

True enough, even with bolstered finances we can't dominate the criminals unless we bring our own criminal in (which I hope we don't because then everything really will have been for nothing), but we are in the game at least. We can spend as much as teams like Utd (marketing giants) and Liverpool (short termism with their finances), we can start replacing lost talent rather than selling it. We all know we are short of players in the squad and there's a blatantly obvious reason for it and that reason is about to expire. The sentient arguments about Wenger struggling as a coach (certainly not as a manager because he's proved his worth in that discipline over and over again) I understand. It could well be Wenger moves up and a more training ground focused coach with a tighter remit is brought in. That could happen. But the hatred and ridicule has gone way beyond such reasonable debates.

This guy hasn't stolen anything from the club, he's poured everything he can give into it. But we haven't managed to overcome the billionaires yet and we are still prone to the effects of underinvestment (the opportunity cost of investment elsewhere) when a few players hit the treatment table. And that's disappointing and frustrating. And it's pointed out by the "pro-Wengerites" (pro our own manager, can you believe it) in the match threads. But things go much further than that in some cases and as an example, there were so-called fans here and elsewhere joining in with the media braying at pictures of Wenger tripping and hurting himself. That suggests more that a desire to see to see Cazorla play centrally or a trophy being won. This suggests something nasty that no real fan would ever want a part of surely? Plus all the other stuff. We can have as many disagreements about the club and how it is run, managed, coached as we want because it's a free world. But there's also the facts to balance the criticism, what Wenger has put into this club and what he has achieved not just in the early years but also over the last decade. Who else could have done it? Seriously. Who else?

If he's to go on his way after almost two decades of service to the club then is it completely unreasonable to afford him the acknowledgement he thoroughly deserves? From what I gather you say yes and that's good. For others though, I stick with what I said. Value of nothing, short term gratification, bragging rights for those who probably don't have a clue how to measure an achievement. They could never be Norwich fans, could they? Seems to me they can't even be Arsenal fans.

[LDG]

First up, the jury isn't out on Kroenke and whether his end game is to the maximum benefit of the club. The release of proper funds for a major signing was a good indicator though. I stand fully behind what I said about those who put little in and took the maximum at a time when finances were crucial. Unbelievably some are accusing Wenger of this and never a mention of the ones who pocketed ten thousand times their meagre investment. It was never about instant gratification, it was about the possibility of having the future taken away (remember the boardroom stabbings?) and the patience you mention being exchanged for a confidence trick rather than the real prize - which is the financial muscle to compete at the top of the game. The competing can't come before that, at least not on a consistent basis. One step follows the next and if the first indications are a prelude to delivering the remainder of what was promised when this project began then it's pure insanity to kick it all in at the death. For sure, it's still a risk but we're watching the big deals getting landed. We've all done the, "Are we there yet?", routine but now the answer is finally yes and we're pulling onto the driveway some stupid fuckers want to wrestle the wheel from the driver and crash the fucking car. I think it is because they have forgotten (or never knew) why they were on the journey in the first place and now they just hate the driver.

True enough, even with bolstered finances we can't dominate the criminals unless we bring our own criminal in (which I hope we don't because then everything really will have been for nothing), but we are in the game at least. We can spend as much as teams like Utd (marketing giants) and Liverpool (short termism with their finances), we can start replacing lost talent rather than selling it. We all know we are short of players in the squad and there's a blatantly obvious reason for it and that reason is about to expire. The sentient arguments about Wenger struggling as a coach (certainly not as a manager because he's proved his worth in that discipline over and over again) I understand. It could well be Wenger moves up and a more training ground focused coach with a tighter remit is brought in. That could happen. But the hatred and ridicule has gone way beyond such reasonable debates.

This guy hasn't stolen anything from the club, he's poured everything he can give into it. But we haven't managed to overcome the billionaires yet and we are still prone to the effects of underinvestment (the opportunity cost of investment elsewhere) when a few players hit the treatment table. And that's disappointing and frustrating. And it's pointed out by the "pro-Wengerites" (pro our own manager, can you believe it) in the match threads. But things go much further than that in some cases and as an example, there were so-called fans here and elsewhere joining in with the media braying at pictures of Wenger tripping and hurting himself. That suggests more that a desire to see to see Cazorla play centrally or a trophy being won. This suggests something nasty that no real fan would ever want a part of surely? Plus all the other stuff. We can have as many disagreements about the club and how it is run, managed, coached as we want because it's a free world. But there's also the facts to balance the criticism, what Wenger has put into this club and what he has achieved not just in the early years but also over the last decade. Who else could have done it? Seriously. Who else?

If he's to go on his way after almost two decades of service to the club then is it completely unreasonable to afford him the acknowledgement he thoroughly deserves? From what I gather you say yes and that's good. For others though, I stick with what I said. Value of nothing, short term gratification, bragging rights for those who probably don't have a clue how to measure an achievement. They could never be Norwich fans, could they? Seems to me they can't even be Arsenal fans.

Top post. Well said.

I can't condone some of the mistakes that have been repeated. In this world where everyone has there say, I do think it is justified to lay some blame at the door of the manager for the piss takes we have endured at the hands of our rivals.

But the filth who call themselves fans, who are full of vitriol, malice and openly laugh along with the braying mob of internet/social media bumders, should really just fuck off and support City, if instant and shameless gratification is all they want.