Are the doubters wrong about Wenger?

[Özim]

This is what I don't understand about him. Our squad is saturated with the same type of footballer and it's needed to be leveled out for some time now. He seems to have ignored signing the type of players that made him so successful in the first place.

Absolutely, I find it strange how he achieved massive success then did the polar opposite with regards style, type of players, mentality etc.

It's just weird IMO, some claimed it was to win the CL, as it's turned out it's made no difference as he's failed to do so.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Slagging Wenger has become a hobby, I'm waiting to see how creative the "yes, but..." crew can be if we win the cup.

I think there are legitimate question marks over his future even with the fa cup, but AW and the "c" word are far too synonymous for my liking.
I'm of the elk, where i want the man to prove me wrong because i still like and respect him, but as time has gone on i have lost "belief" that he can.

[Marc Overmars]

Slagging Wenger has become a hobby, I'm waiting to see how creative the "yes, but..." crew can be if we win the cup.

Weren't you of the opinion winning the cup meant F all anyway?

[Letters]

Do you really need someone to answer that? Have you compared his record in the 1st half of his career and 2nd part, have you seen the players he signed then compared to now, have you seen the way they played football compared to now?

And you think the only explanation for that is Wenger getting worse at his job?
There are so many obvious other factors.

[Kano]

The Times did a piece today, analysing how EPL teams have been affected by injury this season. It was entitled
Mourinho stays silent after Chelsea keep their casualties to a minimum

The article calculated how many player weeks each of the top teams have lost this season through injury. First, it looked at the loss of weeks from players likely to be first choice for a starting 11.

The data?



It went further, and looked at the loss of teams' likely first 15.



Of course, stats can be manipulated at will - but Arsenal's injury data is shocking - even if we are well used to key players being out.

My first reaction to our last few positive results has been that we have shown, recently, that we can perform against teams below the top 6, and that we know how to scrape top 4 - its doing better than that that is our problem.

But I freely admit that the above stats make me question whether my points of criticism of Wenger are accurate, and whether the question marks over him should be in relation to his fitness regime and his failure to back his first team up properly rather than his ability to read and understand the game.

Am I right to reconsider, or am I falling back into the Arsene 'brainwash' of always looking to explain our failure to win, rather than accepting that he is no longer a good enough football coach to win the league?

I think the results away to the top four this seasons says it all when it comes to the discrepancy between his ability now and the teams ahead of us. Those hammerings were purely down to lack of preparation in terms of our set-up and approach. Of course, we had personnel missing for some of those matches but that still does not allow for how open we left ourselves. In fact, looking back at our record against the top four across the past few years shows us that in the games against the better prepared teams, we come up short.

You can roll out a group of good players like ours and let them play their game against outside the top six and we'll come up trumps on most occasions. Better players can generally figure out a way to beat those not on their level. Put them up against a team with players on an equal footing and you need to find that extra edge to give you an advantage.

He won't change his approach to games nor will he change our training methods at his age. He is still a good manager, just not good enough for what we need anymore.

[Özim]

And you think the only explanation for that is Wenger getting worse at his job?
There are so many obvious other factors.

I think that's a big part yes, he changed the style of player and the types of players signed and the result is there for all to see, our football isn't as good or as effective, we're predictable and seem to lack any real leaders or players who will take the game by the scruff of the neck or change the flow when things aren't working. Tactictally he's also been left wanting, this may not have been so relevant in the past as he had players that organised for him, but nowadays his lack of tactical nous is badly exposed.

Liverpool have pretty much shown you can compete, OK so they've played less matches, but you'll probably find they sign players in the summer to legislate for CL football.

[Letters]

these people that bow to the very mention of his name like he's some sort of god are entitled to I just don't agree.

Who does that?
Seriously. Who on here does that?
Stop being ridiculous.

people treat him like he's been working for a pittance and out of the goodness of his heart and that we should owe him our lives or something.

No. No they don't. Literally no-one has done that.

I should praise him left right and centre like he's some sort of messiah

Yes. Again. Literally no-one does that and no-one is suggesting you should either.
Are the only two options to praise everything he does or criticise everything he does and waste no opportunity to have a dig at him.
Like I said, it's like you're some bitter ex who can see no good in anything he does.

I think it's an excuse because you're trying to belittle their achievement

No I'm not. Liverpool have come from nowhere and suddenly look like they'll win the title. If they do it'll be a fantastic achievement.
But there have been discussions about how they've done it and I am others have responded to the "ZOMG! Rodgers is a genius!!!1!!1!!" comments by looking at factors which have led to their success this season. Suarez is one, there are others though which I've been over previously.

And yes, I do grumble about the billionaire clubs as should anyone who loves football and doesn't like how it's become a business.

[Letters]

I think that's a big part yes.

So the other clubs catching up with our fitness regime, creating global scouting networks to rival Wenger's knowledge of the game, bringing in better, foreign coaches and being fuelled by billionaires while we've been going through a huge stadium move and had poor commercial deals...you don't think any of those are factors as big as Wenger apparently getting worse.

We'll have to agree to disagree about that. Football has changed massively while he's been with us and IMO part of the problem with Wenger is that he hasn't changed.

[I am invisible]

...Am I right to reconsider, or am I falling back into the Arsene 'brainwash' of always looking to explain our failure to win, rather than accepting that he is no longer a good enough football coach to win the league?

Maybe it's neither mate? You are allowed to have an opinion that doesn't fall into one of these ridiculously polar camps that you're made to feel that you have to follow [where you have to either blindly support everything the manager does, or obstinately find fault with everything he does]. If you're opinion is that he does some things well, and some things badly - that he's been unlucky in some respects, whilst bringing other problems on himself - then that's fine. I imagine it's where a lot of posters on here sit...

[Özim]

Who does that?
Seriously. Who on here does that?
Stop being ridiculous.


No. No they don't. Literally no-one has done that.



Yes. Again. Literally no-one does that and no-one is suggesting you should either.
Are the only two options to praise everything he does or criticise everything he does and waste no opportunity to have a dig at him.
Like I said, it's like you're some bitter ex who can see no good in anything he does.

There's definitely people that do, I've lost that respect for Wenger I use to have and that's a lot in part to the way he treats the fans, nothing he says or does seems to consider the fans, it seems to be about his players and his targets...I'd have a lot more respect for him if he was more honest and instead of pretending we're fantastic admitting we're not there and then focussing on improving things.

I'm not bitter, I'm just tired of him, nothing changes, same comments, same methods, same praise, same style same everything and IMO he's also very patronising, his interviews might be shrugged off by people as media talk, however all of his words are also heard by the fans thus he should think more carefully before speaking about certain things.

So yeah I don't have much good to say about him, we're going nowhere with him in charge and he does a poor job of selling any kind of vision he has as well with his blinkered approach.

No I'm not. Liverpool have come from nowhere and suddenly look like they'll win the title. If they do it'll be a fantastic achievement.
But there have been discussions about how they've done it and I am others have responded to the "ZOMG! Rodgers is a genius!!!1!!1!!" comments by looking at factors which have led to their success this season. Suarez is one, there are others though which I've been over previously.

And yes, I do grumble about the billionaire clubs as should anyone who loves football and doesn't like how it's become a business.

Rodgers has done a great job to be honest, he's the guy that implemented the style and he stuck youngster in and gave them a chance to shine amongst seasoned professionals (Wenger use to this incidentally, a few youngsters amongst some quality experienced players), he changed tactics according to opposition and he signed played like Sturridge and got the best out of players like Henderson, Suarez etc

Suarez is undoubtedly a factor, but so is the man management of players like him, he could easily have been lumbered with a player who sulked his way to the end of the season, instead the player has performed majestically, signed a new contract and seemingly helped them to the title.

IMO what Rodgers has done is great management because he's displayed the traits good managers should and been adaptable.