Are the doubters wrong about Wenger?

[Niall_Quinn]

A cup he's lacked respect for and from what we've seen in the last 10 years not really cared about, likewise a lot of the fans.

I think the FA Cup is great incidentally, but I find it ironic that some people are suddenly rating it as a great achievement when all they've done is slag it off for years and belittled the achievement when the likes of Portsmouth etc won it.

That's where these arguments get tedious, when people make shit up and then wield it as the centrepiece. I don't rate the FA Cup, haven't done for years. But I do find it amusing how some fans are at their most critical when we win. I'm just wondering how far it will go if we win a cup.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why has this thread gone on attack other posters for their views? This has been done to death and it’s the same culprits that keep dragging it up. (LDG, Letters and NQ).

Whenever someone talks about the frustrating issues we see each season, you guys take issue with the poster or the harsh words for Wenger instead of the real crux of the issue. Threads get bogged down in this back and forth abuse, i.e calling fans ‘filth’, ‘twats’ sarcy comments as usual and it’s ironic that these same posters are calling for the abuse of Wenger to stop. Nobody on this thread has gone as far as that when talking about Wenger.

Back to IBK’s original post, the question is, has Wenger been left behind tactically or is it more of a case of injuries and training. Personally, I feel it’s both and we’ve seen the same issues over the past 9 years so I doubt things will change. He won’t buy to bolster the numbers and even when we’ve seen the effects fatigue can have on the squad, he won’t rotate and sub players when exhausted. It’s a catch 22 and we’re stuck in limbo with him.

I think it might be due to every thread on the forum ending up as a slag Wenger thread.

[Niall_Quinn]

I think there are legitimate question marks over his future even with the fa cup, but AW and the "c" word are far too synonymous for my liking.
I'm of the elk, where i want the man to prove me wrong because i still like and respect him, but as time has gone on i have lost "belief" that he can.

Absolutely. I don't think anyone has a problem listening to a reasoned argument, such as the type posed by the OP. But then it gets ridiculous, you hear the old shit about Wenger being tactically incompetent because he lost three away matches big - including one with corrupt officials, one where we were down to 10 and the other where admittedly we were smashed but beat the very same team in the home fixture (which is odd if the manager is so clueless). It's the frustration of listening to arguments that have no logic trotted out as if they are reasonable. Same with the fitness thing. We kill our players apparently - and yet Giroud plays all season, the one player we said we couldn't afford to lose, does he not train with the first team too? Or the pick a world class striker in Tesco, transfer debate. Or the Wilshere is a cunt get him out campaign. They gave up calling him foul names when they were picked up on it. So that was a result I suppose, not that you should have to tell your own fans not to call their manager what a spuds would happily call him.

But yes, in the world of reason there are issues with the tactics, issues with the injuries, , issues with the transfers, other issues in a subtle and complex environment that can't all be reduced to Wenger is shit. I'm still of the opinion there's no other manager who could have done what he's done over the last 8 years. Some will immediately say, true, he's a shit loser. They instantly ignore the huge potential that is bubbling under the surface at this club now. And even if another manager comes in and is a raving success, he'd better be gracious enough to kiss Wenger's feet for laying it on such a finely decorated and plentiful plate.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I would if I was a poor administrator.

No that would just make you a poor confidant

[Niall_Quinn]

That's blatantly not true, there's a number of people who won't hear a bad word said about him without reacting with a reason as to why he' great.

Can't think of a single person over the last year who has claimed Wenger is infallible or correct in all his decisions. Confident nobody else can think of a name either. If you mean "won't hear a bad word" as won't listen to bullshit claiming he's incompetent or robbing the club and so on, that's probably true. But I don't think that's what you mean.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Absolutely. I don't think anyone has a problem listening to a reasoned argument, such as the type posed by the OP. But then it gets ridiculous, you hear the old shit about Wenger being tactically incompetent because he lost three away matches big - including one with corrupt officials, one where we were down to 10 and the other where admittedly we were smashed but beat the very same team in the home fixture (which is odd if the manager is so clueless). It's the frustration of listening to arguments that have no logic trotted out as if they are reasonable. Same with the fitness thing. We kill our players apparently - and yet Giroud plays all season, the one player we said we couldn't afford to lose, does he not train with the first team too? Or the pick a world class striker in Tesco, transfer debate. Or the Wilshere is a cunt get him out campaign. They gave up calling him foul names when they were picked up on it. So that was a result I suppose, not that you should have to tell your own fans not to call their manager what a spuds would happily call him.

But yes, in the world of reason there are issues with the tactics, issues with the injuries, , issues with the transfers, other issues in a subtle and complex environment that can't all be reduced to Wenger is shit. I'm still of the opinion there's no other manager who could have done what he's done over the last 8 years. Some will immediately say, true, he's a shit loser. They instantly ignore the huge potential that is bubbling under the surface at this club now. And even if another manager comes in and is a raving success, he'd better be gracious enough to kiss Wenger's feet for laying it on such a finely decorated and plentiful plate.

If we lost those matches 1-0 or 2-1 than i'd find the criticisms overwrought, but 6-3, 5-1, 6-0 and 3-0....to blame the officials of being corrupt without any evidence seems totally pointless as well. We lost those matches because we looked totally unprepared, totally lacking in discipline and game plan. When you have spaces between these fixtures and you have demonstrated that you have learnt nothing from any of these defeats it's rather troubling.....and whilst senseless abuse is unwarranted...i think the fans have the right to take the manager to task over it...because it appears no-one at the club save Steve Bould is.
And i think the reason Giroud hasn't broken down from an injury is more due to luck rather than judgement (although whether that's good or bad luck depends on how you view him).

[Power n Glory]

I think it might be due to every thread on the forum ending up as a slag Wenger thread.

Where has that happened on here?

[Niall_Quinn]

For me the Everton game at home was the start of our downward spiral. We collapsed again in that game when we needed to inflict damage on them, but Wenger was in the middle of his "I want to defend all the time" phase. It was a bad result at the time, many of us said so.

Same for me. The first Everton match answered the questions about confidence and bottle and ambition. People went OTT on Everton's performance, like they did in the 3-0 return. But both times we sat back and let them play, taking an entirely negative approach to the game against a team we used to slap around like a cheap whore. We were a lot poorer than Everton were good and we chose that option. Huge negativity and a key indicator we wouldn't have the guts to just go for it when the crunch period of the season came. That would be the second biggest criticism of Wenger this year, for me. Conservatism when we needed to take a few risks. Biggest criticism is the failure to land reinforcements in January.

[Power n Glory]

If we lost those matches 1-0 or 2-1 than i'd find the criticisms overwrought, but 6-3, 5-1, 6-0 and 3-0....to blame the officials of being corrupt without any evidence seems totally pointless as well. We lost those matches because we looked totally unprepared, totally lacking in discipline and game plan. When you have spaces between these fixtures and you have demonstrated that you have learnt nothing from any of these defeats it's rather troubling.....and whilst senseless abuse is unwarranted...i think the fans have the right to take the manager to task over it...because it appears no-one at the club save Steve Bould is.
And i think the reason Giroud hasn't broken down from an injury is more due to luck rather than judgement (although whether that's good or bad luck depends on how you view him).

[Niall_Quinn]

Where has that happened on here?

Think the OP just got unlucky. LDG has probably been getting the same earache I've got from hearing the constant whining. Guess another Wenger thread caused a pressure valve to open. Could have happened anywhere.