Are the doubters wrong about Wenger?

[Kano]

I didn't say they were....although i believe John Henry will probably have enough clout to allow them to cover their losses, but even if they win the league they need to hold an investigation as to how much value for money they are getting in the signings they have made....so much wastage.

to be honest i'm not sure there has been an efficient winner of the league since we did many moons ago. so what liverpool have spent may not be a million miles away from what we've wasted over the years on useless squad players and their wages.

[Niall_Quinn]

If we lost those matches 1-0 or 2-1 than i'd find the criticisms overwrought, but 6-3, 5-1, 6-0 and 3-0....to blame the officials of being corrupt without any evidence seems totally pointless as well. We lost those matches because we looked totally unprepared, totally lacking in discipline and game plan. When you have spaces between these fixtures and you have demonstrated that you have learnt nothing from any of these defeats it's rather troubling.....and whilst senseless abuse is unwarranted...i think the fans have the right to take the manager to task over it...because it appears no-one at the club save Steve Bould is.
And i think the reason Giroud hasn't broken down from an injury is more due to luck rather than judgement (although whether that's good or bad luck depends on how you view him).

We were crap in all 3 matches, no argument, but two of the scorelines were inflated by at least partially artificial circumstances. LOL - the ref was corrupt as hell in the gypo match. Come on. My point some dwell exclusively on that and then concoct huge plot lines that don't tie up with the corresponding evidence from the reverse fixtures. If we are going to say Wenger is entirely incompetent then how are we 4th at all? Shouldn't we be bottom and on our way out? Many of the arguments against him are extreme and not supported by the evidence. The arguments expressed by rational posters I have no problem with at all. No escaping that Liverpool hammering. Wenger has to be criticised for that, of course. As do the players. I'd like to see a strong tactician come in to assist (actually take over) from Wenger in that role. Wenger doing less is not something I don't have any problems with. But the delight I think some would have if he was kicked out the door, that irks me. Not that it will happen, so I don't know why they keep doing everything in their power to belittle the man.

[Niall_Quinn]

I`m pointing out the fact that your a poor administrator. You cant be an administrator if your always on one side of the argument

Actually that's just about as wrong as it's possible to be about the role of a forum admin. Most forums are set up by people who have a particular passion. They open the doors to the opinions of others. Provided they don't shut people up for expressing an opposite opinion then they are at liberty and likely to express their passion. If they are good administrators they can have a right old argument where both sides are heard. Now I don't think anyone can say the two sides of the argument aren't presented on this forum. If anything, one side of the argument drenched the place.

[Power n Glory]

We were crap in all 3 matches, no argument, but two of the scorelines were inflated by at least partially artificial circumstances. LOL - the ref was corrupt as hell in the gypo match. Come on. My point some dwell exclusively on that and then concoct huge plot lines that don't tie up with the corresponding evidence from the reverse fixtures. If we are going to say Wenger is entirely incompetent then how are we 4th at all? Shouldn't we be bottom and on our way out? Many of the arguments against him are extreme and not supported by the evidence. The arguments expressed by rational posters I have no problem with at all. No escaping that Liverpool hammering. Wenger has to be criticised for that, of course. As do the players. I'd like to see a strong tactician come in to assist (actually take over) from Wenger in that role. Wenger doing less is not something I don't have any problems with. But the delight I think some would have if he was kicked out the door, that irks me. Not that it will happen, so I don't know why they keep doing everything in their power to belittle the man.

What irked you in this thread? You just jumped in with a chip on your shoulder after a page and a half in. There were no insults thrown Wenger’s way.

[Niall_Quinn]

What irked you in this thread? You just jumped in with a chip on your shoulder after a page and a half in. There were no insults thrown Wenger’s way.

I'm supporting a view expressed by another poster that I agree with. Internet forum. Discussion. Etc. The bleeding thread is titled "Are the Doubters Wrong about Wenger"

[Power n Glory]

I'm supporting a view expressed by another poster that I agree with. Internet forum. Discussion. Etc. The bleeding thread is titled "Are the Doubters Wrong about Wenger"

You didn't read it properly.

This is what IBK said in regard to the stats.

But I freely admit that the above stats make me question whether my points of criticism of Wenger are accurate, and whether the question marks over him should be in relation to his fitness regime and his failure to back his first team up properly rather than his ability to read and understand the game.

Your post here is well off the mark. Your not in agreement. You just read the headline.

Absolutely. I don't think anyone has a problem listening to a reasoned argument, such as the type posed by the OP. But then it gets ridiculous, you hear the old shit about Wenger being tactically incompetent because he lost three away matches big - including one with corrupt officials, one where we were down to 10 and the other where admittedly we were smashed but beat the very same team in the home fixture (which is odd if the manager is so clueless). It's the frustration of listening to arguments that have no logic trotted out as if they are reasonable. Same with the fitness thing. We kill our players apparently - and yet Giroud plays all season, the one player we said we couldn't afford to lose, does he not train with the first team too? Or the pick a world class striker in Tesco, transfer debate. Or the Wilshere is a cunt get him out campaign. They gave up calling him foul names when they were picked up on it. So that was a result I suppose, not that you should have to tell your own fans not to call their manager what a spuds would happily call him.

But yes, in the world of reason there are issues with the tactics, issues with the injuries, , issues with the transfers, other issues in a subtle and complex environment that can't all be reduced to Wenger is shit. I'm still of the opinion there's no other manager who could have done what he's done over the last 8 years. Some will immediately say, true, he's a shit loser. They instantly ignore the huge potential that is bubbling under the surface at this club now. And even if another manager comes in and is a raving success, he'd better be gracious enough to kiss Wenger's feet for laying it on such a finely decorated and plentiful plate.

[Niall_Quinn]

I wasn't responding to IBK - but otherwise a sturdy straw man you have there.

[LDG]

Why has this thread gone on attack other posters for their views? This has been done to death and it’s the same culprits that keep dragging it up. (LDG, Letters and NQ).

Whenever someone talks about the frustrating issues we see each season, you guys take issue with the poster or the harsh words for Wenger instead of the real crux of the issue. Threads get bogged down in this back and forth abuse, i.e calling fans ‘filth’, ‘twats’ sarcy comments as usual and it’s ironic that these same posters are calling for the abuse of Wenger to stop. Nobody on this thread has gone as far as that when talking about Wenger.

Back to IBK’s original post, the question is, has Wenger been left behind tactically or is it more of a case of injuries and training. Personally, I feel it’s both and we’ve seen the same issues over the past 9 years so I doubt things will change. He won’t buy to bolster the numbers and even when we’ve seen the effects fatigue can have on the squad, he won’t rotate and sub players when exhausted. It’s a catch 22 and we’re stuck in limbo with him.

Have a word pal.

Where have I slagged off any poster? Where in my post did I do that?

You're the one pointing fingers, so perhaps you need to have a look at yourself.

[Power n Glory]

Have a word pal.

Where have I slagged off any poster? Where in my post did I do that?

You're the one pointing fingers, so perhaps you need to have a look at yourself.

Well said.

Whilst most of us agree that his time is at an end, it still disgusts me the vitriol, shit and internet spew being showered on him.

How can you call yourself a fan of a club, when your first priority is to slag off anything and everything about us?

Yes Wenger needs to go. Yes, he is guilty of stagnating. But he has also, lets not forget, kept us from slipping into a different part of the table, using the very strengths we praised him for in his early tenure.

Time for a fresh face to build on the solid foundations. But I can't tell you how nausiating it is to be associated with the filth who sit behind their keyboards throwing turds, with such little knowledge of football to back it up. Opinion is one thing. Being able to articulate it is another. And if you have nothing positive to say, just fuck off will ya.

Sorry, bud! But why did the conversation have to go down that route for this thread?

[Power n Glory]

I wasn't responding to IBK - but otherwise a sturdy straw man you have there.

Where are the unreasonable posts in this thread? You’ve missed the point of the thread. IBK is shifting the focus and asking whether it’s the training and lack of first team back up that’s the problem and maybe some of us misjudging his tactical failings.

Absolutely. I don't think anyone has a problem listening to a reasoned argument, such as the type posed by the OP. But then it gets ridiculous, you hear the old shit about Wenger being tactically incompetent because he lost three away matches big - including one with corrupt officials, one where we were down to 10 and the other where admittedly we were smashed but beat the very same team in the home fixture (which is odd if the manager is so clueless). It's the frustration of listening to arguments that have no logic trotted out as if they are reasonable. Same with the fitness thing. We kill our players apparently - and yet Giroud plays all season, the one player we said we couldn't afford to lose, does he not train with the first team too? Or the pick a world class striker in Tesco, transfer debate. Or the Wilshere is a cunt get him out campaign. They gave up calling him foul names when they were picked up on it. So that was a result I suppose, not that you should have to tell your own fans not to call their manager what a spuds would happily call him.

This post shows how off the mark you are, especially that last part about the training and fitness because that’s what the thread is about.