"Thomas Vermaelen may leave" - Wenger

[McNamara That Ghost...]

So which CB's are of equal standing or better who aren't going to cost a disproportionate amount to the role we are asking them to play?

Yes I do, selling players who need replacing which you then don't replace is what then? I'm alluding to a general will to improve the squad, lest we think the third choice CB is the only acquisition needed. Nothing too odd about it really.

Well I didn't expect Wenger to pick Chambers as the next centreback for us but I dunno, somebody like Hoewedes? Maybe it'd cost a little bit too much and he has always been at Schalke but perhaps somebody of that ilk, not outstanding but solid enough. I'm not sure anybody will describe Vermaelen as solid, I'm not even sure how you describe Vermaelen as a defender.

We probably have a different idea of how we improve the squad; you think keeping a guy who may be pretty good (I think he has been full of errors and have no confidence him for quite some time), that is often injured is more beneficial to us than somebody who may be slightly inferior (again I don't think they would be because I don't rate Vermaelen much for us now) but is there able to help more often.

If we were talking about first team players like we have sold and replaced with inferior quality then I could understand but for a guy that I can't see has contributed to us in any meaningful way other than coming on for a couple of minutes at the end of a game.

If Wenger trusted him to contribute when he was there to play he would have played Vermaelen with any of Koscielny or Mertesacker. As we have seen - Koscielny and Vermaelen together is often horrendous, Vermaelen and Mertesacker is better but still not anywhere near Koscielny and Mertesacker and for that reaso we've seen that Wenger won't break up Koscielny and Mertesacker barring injury but maybe he would if he had a more trusted option there, inferior quality or whatever it may be and thus he might not need to play them together all the time.

[Power n Glory]

Well I didn't expect Wenger to pick Chambers as the next centreback for us but I dunno, somebody like Hoewedes? Maybe it'd cost a little bit too much and he has always been at Schalke but perhaps somebody of that ilk, not outstanding but solid enough. I'm not sure anybody will describe Vemaelen as solid, I'm not even sure how you describe Vermaelen as a defender.

We probably have a different idea of how we improve the squad; you think keeping a guy who may be pretty good (I think he has been full of errors and have no confidence him for quite some time), that is often injured is more beneficial to us than somebody who may be slightly inferior (again I don't think they would be because I don't rate Vermaelen at all for us now) but is there able to help more often.

If we were talking about first team players like we have sold and replaced with inferior quality then I could understand but for a guy that I can't see has contributed to us in
any meaningful way other than coming on for a couple of minutes at the end of the game, a game that is nearing to be won cannot be of helpfulness to us.

If Wenger trusted him to contribute when he was there to play he would have played Vermaelen with any of Koscielny or Mertesacker. As we have seen - Koscielny and Vermaelen together is often horrendous, Vermaelen and Mertesacker is better but still not anywhere near Koscielny and Mertesacker and for that reaso we've seen that Wenger won't break up Koscielny and Mertesacker barring injury but maybe he would if he had a more trusted option there, inferior quality or whatever it may be and thus he might not need to play them together all the time.

Come on Mac, we’ve seen worse players. Djourou, Squillaci, Silvestre, Senderos, Cygan….are we putting Verm in that bracket where they’d most certainly cost us a game? I wouldn’t put him at that level where he can’t even be trusted to play 10 minutes. We’ve seen far worse. Nobodies saying he’s a great player or that he can’t be replaced. I’m just not confident about the player we’ll sign in his place when we’re pushed for time and in a panic. Which is why I say we keep him for one more season. We’ve spent well in this window but I can’t see Wenger splashing money on another defender that’s first team quality. He’ll either go for a veteran, someone young and untested or someone cheap from overseas. That’s what he’s done in the past.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Come on Mac, we’ve seen worse players. Djourou, Squillaci, Silvestre, Senderos, Cygan….are we putting Verm in that bracket where they’d most certainly cost us a game? I wouldn’t put him at that level where he can’t even be trusted to play 10 minutes. We’ve seen far worse. Nobodies saying he’s a great player or that he can’t be replaced. I’m just not confident about the player we’ll sign in his place when we’re pushed for time and in a panic. Which is why I say we keep him for one more season. We’ve spent well in this window but I can’t see Wenger splashing money on another defender that’s first team quality. He’ll either go for a veteran, someone young and untested or someone cheap from overseas. That’s what he’s done in the past.

That's exactly what is happening, isn't it? He's often only coming on for a couple of minutes; when he does play meaninful minutes I reckon we probably don't go on to win. I think his influence causes panic in the team, he himself makes reckless errors more than most and I don't see how he can be considered first team quality, when he is not considered by Wenger, clearly to be first team quality.

Personally I take it as good thing that Man Utd and Barcelona are looking to buy our bench players now, not our first team players.

[Power n Glory]

That's exactly what is happening, isn't it? He's often only coming on for a couple of minutes; when he does play meaninful minutes I reckon we probably don't go on to win. I think his influence causes panic in the team, he himself makes reckless errors more than most and I don't see how he can be considered first team quality, when he is not considered by Wenger, clearly to be first team quality.

Personally I take it as good thing that Man Utd and Barcelona are looking to buy our bench players now, not our first team players.

Silvestre, Djouriou and Squillaci level? Did he cost us serious points last year as back up? I don't recall him being that bad.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

I'm not saying he is at that kind of level but he isn't contributing in the way I think a third choice guy should; he makes plenty of reckless mistakes, positional discipline is not exactly his forté and he often gets injured. That to me isn't helping the squad.

[LDG]

I think this works both ways.

He hasn't wanted to be at the club for some time, and Wenger doesn't see him as first choice.

It's not like we're making a huge error here. We have our first choice CB's who happen to be pretty decent, and who are better than Verms. We just need a solid back up. Doesn't need to be a record breaking signing. Just a steady eddie type. Unless of course, Miquel is being bought on...which wouldn't be the worst thing.

[Power n Glory]

I'm not saying he is at that kind of level but he isn't contributing in the way I think a third choice guy should; he makes plenty of reckless mistakes, positional discipline is not exactly his forté and he often gets injured. That to me isn't helping the squad.

Verm’s contribution is debatable. But losing a player and then going a mad last minute dash to find a replacement is something we should be looking to avoid. That’s something we all should be able to agree on and you must admit, we put ourselves in a poor negotiating position if we sell then go to the market with little time left on the clock. If there are plenty of better options that can contribute more than Verm, why haven’t we signed them already or why can’t we do the deal before he goes? That’s my main concern. Because if we sell now and look later, clubs may smell the desperation and then try to hold us to ransom and knowing Wenger, he won’t have a bar of it. That means we’ll either gamble on an internal option or go for a cheap player that’s worse than Verm.

[Penguin]

We can't be afraid to sign players in case they'll flop. Look at the names I posted that costed £10m or less, they are world class CBs. Nastasic is another one that only cost £12m, Gary Cahill cost £7m - there are players out there.

When we have actually invested in CBs (Vermaelen, Kos and Merts) we have generally done well. I don't include the names you mentioned in that, Squillaci (£4m), Sylvestre (£750k), Djourou (free), and Senderos (£2.5m) were all bargain bucket signings. Senderos and Djourou were inexperienced youths and the other two were just there to make up the numbers. Even in today's market you can buy an experienced CB for £10-15m.

What's there to lose? If Vermaelen was a reliable back-up I would agree that we shouldn't play around, but he isn't. He has major injury problems so he isn't even available half the time, and when he does play he's usually a liability. Even if we don't find a potential worldie, which would obviously be difficult, it shouldn't be hard to find a solid, reliable back-up. Which would be an instant upgrade on Tommy.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Verm’s contribution is debatable. But losing a player and then going a mad last minute dash to find a replacement is something we should be looking to avoid. That’s something we all should be able to agree on and you must admit, we put ourselves in a poor negotiating position if we sell then go to the market with little time left on the clock. If there are plenty of better options that can contribute more than Verm, why haven’t we signed them already or why can’t we do the deal before he goes? That’s my main concern. Because if we sell now and look later, clubs may smell the desperation and then try to hold us to ransom and knowing Wenger, he won’t have a bar of it. That means we’ll either gamble on an internal option or go for a cheap player that’s worse than Verm.

I don't think it would be a mad dash, I expect Wenger has thought Vermaelen would leave for some time now but it may be the case we were awaiting another offer, probably so it would be outside of England. Yes it apparently doesn't leave a huge amount of time but I would reckon he already knows what he is going to do.

If it came to it and we sold Vermaelen with no apparent replacement then that wouldn't be ideal but so far as I am concerned we aren't talking about super quality we could probably replace him at the next available opportunity.

And due to that I don't think we would be in a position of being held to ransom.