Has Wenger really benefitted AFC since 2006?

[IBK]

are you sub/nasri scoreng??

That's me (thinking of going back to Sub 'cos 3 words are too long to sign in with)!

[LDG]

I think Wenger is too prudent, and too trusting.

In football, things change rapidly due to injuries, money, confidence, age and tactics. Wenger does not adapt, or adapt his side quickly enough to compensate for the changes.

I can sympathise with him in some respects, because in order to let something blossom, you have to give it time. And in some respects I admire him for sticking to his principles in the, often vein attempt to see promise turn into gold.

Football has changed dramatically since 2006, and Wenger has done a very consistent job in keeping the team in the hunt, and the financials in check.

What he hasn't done, perhaps until the last few months, is be ruthless in culling and changing a team which has failed. Part of the reason for the "waiting period" we've had, is indecision from the manager in what he wants to do. Granted the Cesc and Nasri situations have been a cunt and a half, but he should have been more ruthless from 1st June, because even with C&N, we weren't good enough last year. And things needed changing quickly, efficiently and with a ruthless sythe.

I wouldn't say helacked desire....in fact, I think he wants to win more than any other manager. But the way he goes about things, thinking, pondering and trusting to good, often leave him floundering in the wake of more ruthless managers. That shows within an actual match, with his stubborness to change tactics, or substutions at key times.

A good manager. But someone far too slow to react.

[IBK]

I think Wenger is too prudent, and too trusting.

In football, things change rapidly due to injuries, money, confidence, age and tactics. Wenger does not adapt, or adapt his side quickly enough to compensate for the changes.

I can sympathise with him in some respects, because in order to let something blossom, you have to give it time. And in some respects I admire him for sticking to his principles in the, often vein attempt to see promise turn into gold.

Football has changed dramatically since 2006, and Wenger has done a very consistent job in keeping the team in the hunt, and the financials in check.

What he hasn't done, perhaps until the last few months, is be ruthless in culling and changing a team which has failed. Part of the reason for the "waiting period" we've had, is indecision from the manager in what he wants to do. Granted the Cesc and Nasri situations have been a cunt and a half, but he should have been more ruthless from 1st June, because even with C&N, we weren't good enough last year. And things needed changing quickly, efficiently and with a ruthless sythe.

I wouldn't say helacked desire....in fact, I think he wants to win more than any other manager. But the way he goes about things, thinking, pondering and trusting to good, often leave him floundering in the wake of more ruthless managers. That shows within an actual match, with his stubborness to change tactics, or substutions at key times.

A good manager. But someone far too slow to react.

Dithering - in other words. But I think he is also too close to his project and lacks objectivity.

[Flavs]

But I think he is also too close to his project and lacks objectivity.

A victim of his own success IMO, he lack s an opposing view. While we dont know what Pat Rice does i dont often see him disagreeing with Wenger. People always like to compare Wenger to Clough (Which is just ridiculous) but Clough only showed that genius touch when he had Peter Taylor at the side of him to temper his behaviour and style. (and drinking)

Perhaps we need a ying to Wengers yang

[IBK]

A victim of his own success IMO, he lack s an opposing view. While we dont know what Pat Rice does i dont often see him disagreeing with Wenger. People always like to compare Wenger to Clough (Which is just ridiculous) but Clough only showed that genius touch when he had Peter Taylor at the side of him to temper his behaviour and style. (and drinking)

Perhaps we need a ying to Wengers yang

I've said elsewhere that I think DD performed this role with Wenger.

Great debating, BTW

[Flavs]

That's me (thinking of going back to Sub 'cos 3 words are too long to sign in with)!

I knew it!

[Daniele]

if you look at the signings and team's improvement over the last 5 years, then we have to draw a line and say tht AW has been a complete failure.

[selassie]

if you look at the signings and team's improvement over the last 5 years, then we have to draw a line and say tht AW has been a complete failure.

Yep agreed, if he was/is being judged on a RESULTS only basis then he's been a complete failure & should step down.

He only really gets given the benefit of the doubt due to finances and the complete lack of clarity surrounding it at the club.

Saying that, losing the Carling Cup to Birmingham (a team who operate in a completely different market to us) pretty much confirmed that finances really don't play a major part in our failure over the past few seasons.

[IBK]

Yep agreed, if he was/is being judged on a RESULTS only basis then he's been a complete failure & should step down.

He only really gets given the benefit of the doubt due to finances and the complete lack of clarity surrounding it at the club.

Saying that, losing the Carling Cup to Birmingham (a team who operate in a completely different market to us) pretty much confirmed that finances really don't play a major part in our failure over the past few seasons.

Interesting question - quite why Wenger gets so much leeway. Partly explained by his pre 2005 success but IMO its also because like SAF he has become assimilated into the club to such a massive degree (philosphy; business model; degree of control over all aspects of the playing side) that its not really like getting rid of a manager in the ordinary sense. Difference is that SAF has brought footballing success and undoubtedly a footballing legacy even when he steps down.

[selassie]

Interesting question - quite why Wenger gets so much leeway. Partly explained by his pre 2005 success but IMO its also because like SAF he has become assimilated into the club to such a massive degree (philosphy; business model; degree of control over all aspects of the playing side) that its not really like getting rid of a manager in the ordinary sense. Difference is that SAF has brought footballing success and undoubtedly a footballing legacy even when he steps down.

Yep totally agree, especially the parts I've highlighted. Whilst most Managers have an element of Power, Arsene as you have stated has so much that many of the policies he's implemented cross the boundaries of Football Manager & Director Of Football in Job description type sense.

What is going to be very interesting is how Arsene's successor manages the policies implemented because I can't for one minute think the board will allow a new Manager to step in and change everything overnight.