Granit Xhaka (official)

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Your logic is exceptional, so Wenger isn't an incompetent he's actually purposely self sabotaging.

If you'd simply said Wenger had naused it up and got the wrong player for the position he wanted him to play than yeah fair enough i don't disagree with you

But no it has to be malevolence on his part.

[Özim]

Your logic is exceptional, so Wenger isn't an incompetent he's actually purposely self sabotaging.

If you'd simply said Wenger had naused it up and got the wrong player for the position he wanted him to play than yeah fair enough i don't disagree with you

But no it has to be malevolence on his part.

Where did I say that, all I said was Wenger likes teams that aren't physical, tackling isn't overly necessary to him, the fact he's told Xhaka not to tackle reenforces that. He didn't buy Xhaka to parade around intimidating the opposition with tough tackling, he bought him for his passing, it wasn't an incompetent decision in the sense that he knew what he was getting, it was however in the grand scheme of things when we absolutely needed a tough tackling dominating DM.

[Niall_Quinn]

How much have we spent in the last 3 seasons? We could have had 2-3 real world beating additions to the team, that elusive 2% we've been chasing for how long now? By "chasing" I mean running in the opposite direction whenever a Vidal pops up. 30-40 mill on him, 90mill on a striker. I think we'd still have money left over for a world class wide man. It could have been done.

Instead we did this.

[Özim]

How much have we spent in the last 3 seasons? We could have had 2-3 real world beating additions to the team, that elusive 2% we've been chasing for how long now? By "chasing" I mean running in the opposite direction whenever a Vidal pops up. 30-40 mill on him, 90mill on a striker. I think we'd still have money left over for a world class wide man. It could have been done.

Instead we did this.

Spot on we're constantly wasting money on nobodies not up to the task, all this because Wenger doesn't want to sign established players where possible and won't pay the going rate.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

So your definition of an established player is whether you personally have heard of them or not

I'd heard of Granit Xhaka two years before we signed him, it's abundantly clear that he was looking to sign someone to replace Mikel Arteta

And he obviously believes he has Coquelin and Elneny to do the more physical work

Do i think he should have signed someone like Kante or Vidal the season before....yeah of course he should have...who knows what his criteria is for signing players, it seems clear to me it's based on too much loyalty to the players he has (didn't sign Vidal because he had coquelin and flamini)

My question to you, is if he's deliberately always trying to make his teams a soft touch why does he constantly persist with Coquelin even in games where it's patently unnecessary and stifles our creativity.

[Özim]

So your definition of an established player is whether you personally have heard of them or not

I'd heard of Granit Xhaka two years before we signed him, it's abundantly clear that he was looking to sign someone to replace Mikel Arteta

And he obviously believes he has Coquelin and Elneny to do the more physical work

Do i think he should have signed someone like Kante or Vidal the season before....yeah of course he should have...who knows what his criteria is for signing players, it seems clear to me it's based on too much loyalty to the players he has (didn't sign Vidal because he had coquelin and flamini)

My question to you, is if he's deliberately always trying to make his teams a soft touch why does he constantly persist with Coquelin even in games where it's patently unnecessary and stifles our creativity.

An established player is someone who has been there and performed at the higest level IMO, Xhaka hadn't, he;d had a few seasons for one of the teams in the Bundesligua that make up the numbers, hardly great.

Is it deliberate, not in the sense that's he looks at his teams and wants the to be weak, but his choices of players seem to be based around passing, that's what he looks for as that's his preferred style of play, if they can pass they can fit in, other attributes like shooting, tackling, leadership etc aren't important to him.

This inevitably ends up with us signing weaker players, as generally passers are not your physical types, he's basically obsessed with this passing game because he thinks it constitutes great football, 10+ years of evidence suggest it doesn't.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

An established player is someone who has been there and performed at the higest level IMO, Xhaka hadn't, he;d had a few seasons for one of the teams in the Bundesligua that make up the numbers, hardly great.

Is it deliberate, not in the sense that's he looks at his teams and wants the to be weak, but his choices of players seem to be based around passing, that's what he looks for as that's his preferred style of play, if they can pass they can fit in, other attributes like shooting, tackling, leadership etc aren't important to him.

This inevitably ends up with us signing weaker players, as generally passers are not your physical types, he's basically obsessed with this passing game because he thinks it constitutes great football, 10+ years of evidence suggest it doesn't.

How many top sides have players that are purely physical players that have no technical ability. Kante is excellent at tackling and pass interceptions but he can also distribute the ball well.

[Özim]

How many top sides have players that are purely physical players that have no technical ability. Kante is excellent at tackling and pass interceptions but he can also distribute the ball well.

What am saying is that most players have a particualr strength, yes there are some who are all rounders but it's they're the exception rather than the rule.

Wenger is interested in players that pass, he is happy to overlook other skills that might be beneficial to us if that player has that attribute.

[Niall_Quinn]

So your definition of an established player is whether you personally have heard of them or not

I'd heard of Granit Xhaka two years before we signed him, it's abundantly clear that he was looking to sign someone to replace Mikel Arteta

And he obviously believes he has Coquelin and Elneny to do the more physical work

Do i think he should have signed someone like Kante or Vidal the season before....yeah of course he should have...who knows what his criteria is for signing players, it seems clear to me it's based on too much loyalty to the players he has (didn't sign Vidal because he had coquelin and flamini)

My question to you, is if he's deliberately always trying to make his teams a soft touch why does he constantly persist with Coquelin even in games where it's patently unnecessary and stifles our creativity.

I think that's the problem right there, he was looking to replace Arteta. It was a top tier replacement for an ageing Cazorla we really needed, and still need. The difference between the safe and reliable but unadventurous Arteta and the two footed, forward thinking, fast and technical Cazorla is marked. Xhaka, ElNeny, Coquelin, Ramsey, Wilshere, none of them can play that role. And it's costing us for a second season running.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I think that's the problem right there, he was looking to replace Arteta. It was a top tier replacement for an ageing Cazorla we really needed, and still need. The difference between the safe and reliable but unadventurous Arteta and the two footed, forward thinking, fast and technical Cazorla is marked. Xhaka, ElNeny, Coquelin, Ramsey, Wilshere, none of them can play that role. And it's costing us for a second season running.

Oh i don't disagree, but the reason we haven't signed a top tier replacement for Cazorla is the reason he didn't replace Arteta until he actually left the club, he's still with us.

I think Wilshere is the closest to being able to replicate what Cazorla does, which made it bizarre for me that he went out on loan.